Some mythological background and theories: About the protag: I think it's important that according to the Talmud, God created golems before he created humans. Adam too was a golem at first, which is to say all of these golems were unfinished. Not fully 'alive'. And that's probably the reason he's outside of Samsara cannot attain enlightenment. The fact that golems also lack agency tells me that the way they enter Samsara is via disobedience. Maybe that's how Adam became a human according to the Talmud (I haven't read much more about this topic)? About Mara: Interesting how the game refers to her as a she, but in mythology, Mara is only ever referred to as a "he" so that's what I'll use. He can be a symbol for many different things depending on which sect of Buddhism it is. He can represent death, he can be a temptor figure, an embodiment of kleshas or the embodiment of existence itself. In some interpretations he also has a role of keeping deva in the Heavens, preventing them from reincarnation, and reportedly he does this because he himself has too many attachments to the deva realm. He's many things. Him being a female angel in this game is a very interesting choice imo In mythology he also approaches the Buddha to tempt him while he sat under the Bodhi Tree so that has *implications* regarding our main character. The Buddha himself started out as prince who was coddled from the world and didn't know that death, sickness, old age and birth (the four sights) existed. Maybe this is a clue in the game, you have to see these to get into Samsara and get enlightened. He has three daughters who represent the three poisons, so the in-game Mara making the protag her son who judges the dead is very interesting. The judge of dead would be the Ten Kings of Hell in Buddhism, but maybe the protag takes on the role of King Yama specifically, except... since the tower collapses there's no way to even try to get out of Samsara now so that role is basically useless. Also the swamp is clever. Enlightenment is often symbolized by a lotus flower because it rises from the mud of the bottom of the pond and opens its petals above the murky water. About the ending where you defeat Mara: It makes sense that nothing really changes. When the Buddha got enlightened and started teaching the masses, he didn't end suffering, did he? He did defeat Mara temporarily and so the world is prevented from getting worse but it's still not great. About the horse: The historical Buddha's favorite horse was called Kanthaka and he accompanied him when he saw the four sights and when he fled his life as a prince to find his true purpose. If it's someone else's memory that implies that someone else represents the Buddha, but this is a dream game so things might be more complicated. About the crows and the Crow Lord: In Tibetan Buddhism, the crow is associated with Lord Mahakala. He's a deva of time, destruction, and death. In fact his name means "beyond time". He represents the inevitable and the destructive and uncaring destruction of everything. He's not bound by any laws or morals, he's what everything came from (as a manifestation of Shiva) and what everything will eventually return into. Which is why he's referred to as "the ultimate and absolute". This game mixes different mythologies but considering the crows' role in the story, it makes sense I think. About Melpomene: I haven't found anything more about Melpomene than you described, but one important detail is that she's a muse of tragedy, as in the tragedy genre of plays. Theatre. Considering that she tampered with the protagonist, it's easy to see that she's a puppetmaster of sorts. Or more like a stage director. That said, great video, great channel, I need to play this game, it looks amazing.
That’s an awesome amount of info that I never would have been able to pull together on my own. The theories and mythology that you bring up help make more aspects of the game make sense. Thank you so much for taking the time to write this comment!
I think I got it on how she messed you up. You are a golem and to achieve nirvana you must disobey to become human and to achieve that state. But you cannot. At no point can you disobey and strike out on your own. Your path is linear, despite what the start would have you believe with 4 paths. Melpomene is tragedy and the tragedy in this game is that the player does not have agency. Even at the end where you go against Mara, Mel falls asleep before, denying you the option to disobey. Achieving nirvana is killing her and the killing mara, which is a somewhat secret ending, implying agency that it took to do more than follow the rails of the game.
So, the bit with Adam being a “golem” is the more literal use of the word, in tractate Sanhedrin 38b of the Talmud. One of the rabbis is describing the process of Adam’s creation hour by hour, made from soil drawn from all corners of the earth. The “unshaped form” is only the second hour (his limbs are lengthened in the third, he gains a soul in the fourth, and the rest is devoted to the creation of Eve and their children, because Cain and Abel exist in Eden in this narrative). What’s perhaps more interesting is where this idea derives from. In Psalms 139, there’s a line in which David (to whom the psalm is attributed) speaks of Hashem as having seen “my unformed limbs,” referring to himself in his mother’s womb. The term used for this, and which can translate as “embryo” is “gal’mi,” but Hebrew is a root-based language. The root of that word is gimel-lamed-mem, the same root as “golem.” All humans, in other words, are golems until we are fully formed and birthed, bestowed with a “soul” (the “breath of Hashem,” as there’s a strong connection between breath/wind and souls/spirits in Judaism, to the point that the “spirit of G-d” that passes over the water early in Genesis more directly translates to “a wind of G-d.”)
@@jamesiewalters2360 with the attention the game's starting to get I'm sure we'll be seeing walkthroughs soon. In any case, it's not super difficult to get the true endings, you just gotta be very thorough while exploring each floor.
well, i hope folks will be commentating; i think we could do with the company for this.... sucks about our friend though; i'd save or revive her if i could...
If anyone is interested, the song playing at 10:34 is called "Soleado", performed originally by the Daniel Sentacruz Ensemble. I love the melody to pieces ever since I heard the German cover version done by Michael Holm.
Every time I find a game like this I feel comforted knowing someone else with an imagination like mine can showcase their mind with such beauty. Yume Nikki was the first one I ever found way back in childhood. Then LCD: Dream Emulator. Hylics. Even Fear & Hunger. The list goes on. Sometimes my thoughts are overwhelming, freaky, and incomprehensible, but games like these remind me that it’s all high art at the end of the day. Love stuff like this fr. Always and forever. Thank you for sharing this with us.
With an imagination like yours? Such an odd humblebrag when you haven't even done anything to contribute to this game except like it. This came from their imagination, not yours
@@headphonic8 I’m complimenting the dev for being able to do something that I’m incapable of. They are able to capture concepts that are hard for me to materialize into art. I found a new game to adore and appreciate. HOW is that a brag?
@@giga3132I don’t think it was intentional but your comment did come off a tiny bit strange by comparing yourself to them. That being said if you think you have this type of creativity then I implore you to try and channel it into something. Talent is not the bottleneck you might think it is because it’s never too late to learn skills. It’s all about passion.
Yeah, the Disillusion video is here! I'm really glad you were fascinated by it, it's one of these games that really make you feel like you're stepping into an unfamiliar world that works completely differently from ours yet feels vaguely similar.
Also I'm glad to see this video has already gathered more views than your Peri video in just a day. Tho I also wish the Peripeteia would blow up somehow
It’s really interesting because it pulls from real world religions and mythologies but mixes them all together. I’m sure there are so many references I missed or didn’t even find.
Yo man just wanted to update you. The devs released a new demo of Disillusion ST just a few hours ago on Itch. It's got 150ish floors and the main dev has stated it's pretty much early access.
I just discovered this video today and i’d like to say..this channel is so awesome!! Im so glad i find this video and channel please find more obscure stuff like this! Love it!!!
Just found your channel through your Enemy Zero video. I was a tester for this game from the early stages, interesting to hear your thoughts on it and glad to see it get attention!
It reminded me of the small dungeon section on Hylics 2 but even more weirder, which I never thought it was possible. Thank god there's no random encounters, is my pet peeve so now i have to give it a try :D
oh man I found a new channel to love, you seem to cover a lot of games I was either drawn to in the past and loved or ones I WOULD be drawn to if I found them, youtube been doing good the past 2 weeks, happy to have found you!
@@dungeonchill Well I'm glad it happened whatever it was, creators like you with less recognition but great quality should be getting showcased more, there's no reason people with 20M subs and what not need to be plastered everywhere at all times
Haha, I think LSD and Eastern Mind (made by the same team and came out before LSD) were major influences on the dev. And I plan to cover both of those in the future.
Huh I remember that LSD game but i don't think it had much narrative to it which is why I didn't really get into it. I might be able to play this though since the story sounds interesting
Funny thing about the text at the ending, show at at 15:42 The text is fairly similar to the song "Close to the Edge" by the band "Yes". The actual lyrics are: "Two million people barely satisfy Two hundred women watch one woman cry" There's actually quite a lot of references to the band throughout the game, I just assume Disillusion Dev is a big fan of them.
Games and games like them are a whole indie genre, they really blur the line between random humor and surreal stuff. Space Funeral was the first one I knew
This is super interesting! When someone develops a "weird" game, it usually ends up being more of an "experience" than game. So it is refreshing (and exciting) to learn about a "weird" and "real" game.
Going to do my favorite youtube boost with reviews of games I want to play. Comment for engagement, then mute and let play to the end without watching to get not spoiled. (And come back later)
Something about taking Acid i've experienced a lot, is I find myself having a NEED to walk, and keep walking, like i'm trying to get to a peaceful beach to watch a sunrise. All the while i'm struggling to keep myself existing as me Very Samsara
Very interesting... I think I will give it a go. Sadly, the game doesn't have regional pricing and is a bit expensive more me, but I will try to get it as soon as I can. I hope the dev is still around. I would also love to see the sequel when it comes out.
I have a soft spot for dungeon crawlers & strange stories, so this game instantly appealed to me lol. I just watched this video yesterday, and all day today I found Mel's theme stuck in my head. You're definitely right about the types of feelings it evokes! For me it's a very melancholic, very wistful... very nostalgic type of thing. It's really good! :) The, uhm... "rainy area" theme, though... *really* freaks me out 😰 I'm sure that that's probably intentional; but damn... they nailed it lol.
Ugh, the sound file of the woman reading the stories. I know that from my arg/chaotic fiction/weird Internet stuff days. I think Night Mind or someone did a video on her but I can't remember the details offhand. She has some... wild stuff.
Amazing channel man! Instant subscribe. A lot of this philosophical stuff seems to come from Tibetan Buddhism rather than the Vedas - although this worldview has began with the Vedas, so it's not wrong, it's just a particular branch of a very broad and varied family so to speak. For example, the phrase "wisdom of emptiness and clear light in union" is really a what tantric Buddhists believe as per nature of reality
Hey, found your channel and commenced a binge watch. Great stuff! I'd like to suggest you cover Hylics. It seems like it would mesh well with other games you've done videos on so far. In any case, thanks for great content!
Its using Buddhist philosophy more than strictly Vedic/Hindu. Mentions of the Eightfold Path etc. plus samsara is also a representation of being stuck in suffering and cyclical existence, even in a more physical/death and reconstitution of matter even etc. the idea of someone saving others by putting off their own ascentuon, either in Nirvana or Paranirvana or both depending on specifics/sects belief, its the Mahayana Buddhist (Zen, Chan) concept of the Bodhisattva, which also has a version in Vajrayana or Tibetan Buddhism. Mara was also the personification of desire and suffering when the Buddha was under the tree attaining enlightenment. So yeah you had the general idea, but theres a variety of specifics i noticed too that is utilized in this game, which do turn up in a variety of other games where the designers are influenced by Buddhism, Mahayana or Thervada or Vajraysna versions to varying degrees. The crow lord seems to represent the older Hindu ideas of deity at the time of the buddha, which had been corrupted by some of the top of the caste system at the time (which has happened to some degree today in both religions, tho with varying intensities - the tourist temples in Bangkok come to mind, etc) Seems pretty fascinating!
I was surprised with how deep the writing in this game could be. The unique take on Buddhist cosmology, especially the bits you find in the library, were inspired. It's not one of those games where everything feels meaningless or random, and when you take some time to really dissect it, it's rewarding. It's one of those games that doesn't take itself too seriously but still has meaningful things to say. Mel's characterization in the game was great too, even though after playing the prequel it took me a little time to get accustomed how different her personality here was. After playing the original though, I'm honestly a little disappointed that the prequel seems to be going for a much more morose character which feels a bit more generic. As for not being able to get the bad ending, I'm 99% sure this is caused by a bug due to developer oversight. I'm pretty sure what you have to do is upset Mel to the point where she leaves then go for the true ending. However one of the requirements to reach the true ending requires Mel to not have left. There's a fan-made, developer-approved patch that fixes a lot of the bugs the game has and I'd suggest anyone interested in playing this check it out.
Oh hey, its the VX Ace version of the FPLE script I only recently learned existed (Alongside the XP version). What a coincidence. Lol. After I started to play Etrian Odyssey 4 (Still haven't finished that), I've really wanted to make a DRPG like this, so discovering those scripts was really cool to me cause the XP version runs SO much better than the MV one, and it looks nicer too (I don't own VX Ace, but this game seems to make good use of its version). It will never fail to impress me how people somehow could transform RPG Maker into a pseudo-3D engine, especially these earlier versions. As someone who knows very little about code/programming, this is basically computer witchcraft to me. Lmao.
Watched wondering on the random fights affected anything or of killing them was good (as long as they didn't provide anything of course). Glad to see there's probably nothing to it. Is there a way to travel between floors, downwards?
awwwww why didn't you mention the price at the beginning of the video? I woulda bought it, that's such a good deal! Then I woulda watched the video after playing the game. Oh well. Still great video!
I usually don't like First Person games, but that's because of how hyperbolic shooters tend to be. Still, this surreal, maze-like dungeon crawler is definitely right up my alley.
so, hindu mithology kinda have a lot more than one hell, i was born in a hindu family, but i don`t study a lot of it, but this fact interested me for a while. there`s even a cold hell, like, a place just like hell, but made of ice, and i think that`s worse than fire.
That song is "Now Rain" by Selected Easy Listening - the whole soundtrack seems to be taken from three different albums that are hosted on an independent bandcamp label. The dev uploaded them all here - /watch?v=a6jp34T5fhs
So im pretty new to the whole pc gaming thing. I purchased this game out of excitement on steam not knowing I couldn't play it because I have a mac. Does anyone know of an easy way I can try to run that's been tried and true ? Thanks ❤
While I kind of appreciate the style of the game, as well as its weird atmosphere, I got a migraine just from watching this video because of the clashing colours. I can't imagine playing it. My eyeballs would bleed and my screaming would fill the empty, endless void.
I know I am late to the party, but some similar games of interest. I don't think I am saying anything new or revolutionary seeing Shin Megami Tensei in this game. And not the new ones, not new Persona, like the hand-helds or before the jump to ps2. Persona 1 and 2 even. But also Baroque. The original on the Sega Saturn more so than the 3D remake, but still a lot of atmosphere and theming similarities in my opinion. Sorry if you covered this in the video, but I did stop at the discuss of the endings for spoiler reasons.
I dont want to be that guy, but videos like this envy pc gamers, i cant even afford current gen consoles.... But its why i love watching these videos too
Dude I found your channel a week or so ago and I've been OBSESSED!! your content reminds me of a blend of ross's game dungeon, grimbeard, civvie 11, madaloregaming, and just a dash of your favourite son (like in your voice quality, tone, delevery). Excellent stuff mate 🧶🐈⬛⚧️
I don’t know the developers background, but there are many references to Hindu, Buddhism, as well as Jewish folklore and Greek mythology. And probably many more references that I didn’t find.
I think there's just a big fascination for eastern spirituality all over world. So references to Hindu or Buddhist mythology can be found in a lot of western media.
The track you find so disturbing seems to be some form of cover version of the German song "Tears don't lie/Tränen lügen nicht," which apparently had its melody used for a Christmas song called "When a Child Is Born" as well.
