Plus with the heads poking out on both sides makes maintenance SOOOO BLOODY EASY! You don't have to take off the tank, or the air box, or a bunch of body panels to adjust the valves, replace the spark plugs or change the oil. It's all right there so easy to get to and ready for maintenance.
@@ontwowheels6479 You do? Holy shit, I've only been removing a piece of plastic to get to the airbox and change the air filter! Please tell me, what is this mythical air filter that requires removing the subframe?!?!?!
@@LarryJ602 I didn’t say air filter. I said air box. Or we could say fuel pressure regulator too because that also requires rear subframe removal. I just put a gearbox in mine. Bmw can’t build a gearbox that lasts but whatever man. Be condescending. I don’t care bro.
As you probably know, BMW has many other motor configurations,they constantly improve on their designs,boxer twins are conducive for shaft drives. I have over 100,000 miles on my 2008 GS that I bought new. so yeah, they suck
Good point about the shaft drive, but the thing is, more power and more speed IS NOT the end all and be all of a motorcycle. So, yeah, BMW’s 4-cylinder is cheaper and faster, but you probably wouldn’t take a trip on it and certainly not use it for the same purposes.
@@qdllc The boxers are more than capable of getting one arrested for excessive speed. The new 1250 makes over 100ft/lbs at the engine. For a 1250. That doesn't seem low tech or slow.
100,000 miles on it, nicely done If only BMW could manage to make their cars last like that BMW mechanics are the only ones who love a used BMW I've never heard of another brand that sells cars that'll shred parts over and over I mean in a limited numbers, hand made, Italian exotic type vehicle you kind of expect some problems But a BMW should at least be more reliable than that
I wish I had my camera on the other day when I was filling up this couple on a K 1600 GTL pulled up. I said to myself oh aren't we some fancy princess'. The girl hopped off the back and yelled to the guy "I need to shit" and then proceeded to run into the store. So it is true fancy pants BMW riders also poop.
Truth is simplicity of design, a balanced natural engine that is rugged and reliable with sufficient power to get the job done. Low centre of gravity, ease of maintenance make them a decent handling machine.
Opposing twins make loads of torque at very low revs, unlike their 4-cylinder counterparts that need to be revved to the stratosphere to produce torque & power. And the Japanese do take their opposing cylinders seriously...ever heard of a Goldwing? Finally, in BMW's case, their pricier 2-cylinders opposed engines are mated to a shaft-drive, so no chain cleaning or lubing. Yes, you can add the heritage and all that, plus a boxer engine screams BMW from a mile away.
I have had dozens of bikes come and go of the years. All different types from harley to hodaka hard tail to sport. The 1972 R/5 I purchased in 1986 is still in the garage.It's almost joy to level of sensory overload still when I start her up.. My son just turned 18 and going to look for his first bike Monday. Proud dad moment.
There were huge benefits to a flat twin when the engines were air-cooled. That why Harley designed a flat twin when their military bikes with the narrow v-twin couldn't handle the heat in north Africa. It's interesting that both BMW Motorrad and Porsche make some of the most highly regarded vehicles in their segments and they do it with the "wrong" engines.
@@LabiaLickerlet’s be honest, the Japanese ripped off Zee Germans for their best designs. I’ll grant that they refined them to insane reliability, but they didn’t exactly come up with any groundbreaking designs…just like they ripped off American truck and SUV designs to perfection. Love me some Japanese vehicles, but any credit to their vehicles boils down to Kaizen.
@@gmcg8775 Nah Jap stuff is way better. Now days when I think of German automobiles I think of Volkswaggen, Mercedes and BMW, none of which come to mind when I think "good engineering" (particularly VW). Also a lot of the famous Jap cars were designed by white guys, to say they ripped of American designs is erroneous. I would say a bigger case of design rip off is Ferrari ripping of Corvette. No when I think of innovation in cars and engines I think of companies like Yamaha making the Lexus LFA engine and Mazda making the first to market compression ignition petrol engine.
Ahhh, coffee and Shadetree on a sunday. My brother was a BMW motorcycle Master tech for 10+ years he has since moved to ducati as a Master tech. He absolutely loved BMW but he also said if you own one you have to do all of the scheduled service intervals or you will have problems.
I use to work in a workshop that only worked on older bikes. One day a mint R80/5 came in. I got to service it. I was amazed it only had 28k on the odometer. When the owner came to pick it up, I asked him about it, and he laughed. He told me that it had been around the clock three times.
I laugh when I hear these types of comments. Any bike/vehicle will give "problems" if not properly maintained. I personally own 5 BMW vehicles, and a '09 R1200RT, I absolutely love and I maintain each of them myself. BMWs aren't difficult or expensive to maintain...BMW shops simply charge a premium for maintenance, and branded parts. My cars? '04, '06, '08, '11, & '13 all with 116-160k on the odometer.
There are two reasons why BMW flat engines are a great choice. 1- virtually unbreakable. 2- best balance. Also, yes, the design is antiquated, but like Porsche 911s, it just works. i have owned a BMW boxer for 22 years and would not trade my latest for anything else in the market. it is tough, comfortable, nothing breaks and delivers pure joy.
Great as always. As I got older I got the the appreciation of the history and the older stuff. I used to be about the latest and greatest tech specs now I see it like the old hometown bar compared to the new flashy brewery. The new brewery has many more choices, look all fancy, bright and clean, smell a whole lot better but.the old neighborhood bar has the people, personality, barely functioning Jukebox with the same dozen songs that's been played for the last 50 years, and comfort that you just can't replace. You have to think about going to the brewery, and think about what you want, the neighborhood bar - you just automatically go and you normal drink is ready by the time you get in the door at your spot at the bar. The younger me wouldn't understand, the older me gets it.
Your point is valid but the comparison is awful. Bars and breweries are simply not comparable to engines. There is nothing wrong with liking some engine characteristics over others. "Picking sides" is ignorant, be it towards older familiarity, etc or tech specs, bleeding edge performance. Grab a big v twin or boxer or 2 stroke, if you feel like it, also grab a screaming inline 4 if it suits what you want to do with it. People that scoff at anything that's not a sportbike are just as biased and narrow minded as the cruiser/boxer/whatever counterpart. The Boxer has a very good reason for being in an RS. It offers great low to mid range and great torque, is quite smooth, unlike an inline4 which on BMW specifically has some secondary vibration issues with their bikes. The engine is great for real world road riding, very easy to service, and is somewhat uniquely suited for comfy road touring and many more reasons it's still used today. I haven't owned a flying brick engine but have owned its next evolution. Comparing that to the line of boxers BMW had then, the boxer is still more comfy for long distance touring, easier to service, less issues being an older platform and most likely cheaper to develop too. Everything has its uses. Either younger or older me, I would still not want to tour for 10k miles on a Panigale, or get a Goldwing as a track only bike.
If you look at car technology compared to bike tech, bikes are actually more advanced. Bikes make a hell of a lot more power for their displacement because they rev much higher, they’re more fuel Efficient, they’re more compact. all achieved without any kind of forced induction or nitrous or any special additions.
Some old dude pulled up next to me on his bmw yesterday and told me to tear my harley engine (with only 10k miles) apart and rebuild it, because it sounds broken. GFYS
Apperantly it's all in the ear of the beholder. Since the old 2 valve boxer can sound pretty "broken" too by the standards of a newbie. Until you run it for 200k kms and realise it still sounds that way😂
I loved the sound of my tiny Honda cb500. For the few days till I realized power was low. The exhaust got loose and it was partially breathing directly out of the engine. Sounded good though
I ride another antique, a Guzzi V7, it’s like riding a tractor. Would I give it up for a 4 cylinder, hell no, I may as well go drive my wife Honda accord
Just one note: In the UK at least BMWs were not cool sports bikes in the 80s, they were touring bikes for old farts with tobacco stained moustaches. All the cool kids were riding Japanese bikes with frames made from wet spaghetti. Into trees, mostly. Henry Hartley is right - BMW tried to move with the times and it was like launching new formula coke. There were grey beards protesting outside the German Embassy.
They did try to kill off the boxer in the early eighties with the introduction of the triple and four cylinder flying brick engined bikes, but pressure from BMW owners kinda stopped it. Great video..
It’s a very nice engine to ride. Loads of torque, you select the gear for the speed limit, 3rd for 30mph, 4th for 40, etc, etc and the bike just settles nicely at those speeds. And like all twins you can make bends in a higher gear than on a multi.
Sounds like a mistake. BMW is actually one of the more forward-thinking companies I think, but if you want to stay alive long-term, you should unashamedly target new riders each and every year.
The other answer to "why ride this?!" might include swapping spark plugs and doing valve clearances, as it's nice to just have things sticking out if you need to work on them. But yes, nostalgia and iconoclastic inclinations are probably a more philosophic answer to the question.
Yes BMW is still using an “old design”, but it’s been updated significantly from the version in the 80’s. Please take a look at how far the Evo engine has been improved on the sportsters since the 80’s and compare that to the improvements to the boxer engine from the same era.
a BMW rider stole my coffee that had just finished brewing at my local motorcycle shop while I had my back turned picking up parts. they stole free coffee...
Great video! I love my 2017 R1200GS and it's all about character because it's definitely not a power monster. Specifically, I like the mellow yet torquey engine. Smooth engine braking and nice little rumble when getting on the throttle at low RPM. I also like the shaft drive as it's low maintenance and makes you feel like you're on a tank. Handling is very light due to low center of gravity, Telelever suspension and narrow tires. And I also like the farty sound from the exhaust, especially with a good can. I have Remus 8. Kinda sounds like a WW2 era airplane (true to their heritage). Ride by wire throttle is very dialed in and smooth. I could go on and on about what I like but I will mention that the telelever suspension is not for everyone. I can see why some people don't like it; it's weird and very different than traditional forks. It took me a while to get used to. Also, the boxer bikes are made with certain offsets in the design which, along with the torque reaction from the crankshaft, create a different feel when turning left vs right. I guess you could say that the bike has asymmetrical handling. That also took a while to get used to. Thanks for the cool insights and for the history lesson.
I own a 2018 R9T roadster and a restored 1962 R69S. The comparison between the two bikes are almost 1 to 1 in heritage. But the ride experience differences are night and day. It’s such a blast riding the old one that you instantly forgive all its faults. I really enjoy your videos!
BMW Harley Motoguzzi and probably others stick with configurations that work. There are many advantages for twins. When BMW tried to drop the twins for the flat 4 K100 back in the 80s there was a lot of push back from enthusiasts. So they are "stuck" with that design same with HD and MG.
I don't have any experience with BMW's myself other than during the mid-70's when I was in middle school, I had a teacher with one that had a sidecar attached and it was his pride and joy, I've yet to hear anything negative about them personally, the only thing that could be construed as a negative would be the inability to use highway pegs due to the boxer engine but that's personal preference.
It'll be a sad day if the boxer ever leaves for practicality and design and such. I don't even really like the boxer buuuuut they're cool af. Great vid bud and that conclusion :D So true.
When you're road riding in the middle of nowhere and haven't seen another vehicle for 45 minutes and a motorbike headlight appears in the closing distance my experience is that you're about to pass another BMW R1200 RT rider. It isn't quick or fast but it is perfect for crushing big mile days and it can handle fun roads just fine.
Chris Fournier the S1000RR is super quick and that’s what it was designed to do the R1200RT is deigned you be a tourer and it does so very well while also being fairly quick when compared to other retro engineered tourers.
1923 the r32 was the first "motorcycle" looking motorcycle. HD was still building bicycles with motors. 1927 BMW hits 125 mph on the track. HD didnt' do it until 1946 on the knucklehead, and speaking of the knuckle, looks suspiciously like the r32. yea, after the war we plundered bmw's factories. so bmw's greatest heritage is that HD wants to be one
The answer to "why stick with opposed twins" is simple. What interesting would it be if all bikes had the supposedly ideal engine config? Variety is everything. And there are actual advantages with the flat twin too. Just compare the time it takes to change spark plugs or check valve clearances on a flat twin vs a i4. There aren't many people questioning Porsches decision to stick with the flat six either. Its quintessentialy Porsche and very much the ideal engine config for rear engine sports cars. And I think the same applies for BMW´s flat twin. It for example makes the GS significantly more manageable with its huge weight. Cheers.
Robert Pirsig wrote in his work, Zen and the art of Motorcycle maintenance; In a car you are a spectator watching the scene through a window, disengaged from the environment. However, on a motorcycle you are interacting with the environment.
It's also very endearing. I don't know how else to say it. I had a KTM 1290 SA and I loved that bikes power but the BMW R1200GSA has some strange charm. I can't explain it. Those boxers are so lovely.
The biggest misconception about the Boxer is that they don't want to be revved. . Spin them up and roll all day... They will make the boxer as long as people want the best. Owned 14 Boxers and counting. 500k Plus Miles of well quick backroads sport touring/camping .
BMW is in tune to it's heritage. It's important to both remain faithful to your heritage when it makes sense while also pushing innovation in other areas. I would also argue that the flat twin DOES have some engineering pluses over a traditional inline 4. It carries a lower center of gravity and has a wider spread of torque across it's rev range, making it less taxing to use it's power more effectively. Great for urban environments, light off roading, etc. (which is why the GS has a fan base)
Love the video. It is crazy how Harley and BMW use inferior technology but still somehow manage to have the most loyal customer base. I'm guilty of it. I could have easily found a faster more reliable bike for half the money but then I wouldn't have that v-twin making my heart pound every time I twist the throttle. PS: the voice over was awesome👍
I know right! I cast sooo much shade on "Hardley Ableson". BUT.... yesterday I saw a 2010 Crossbones for sale. I INSTANTLY fell in love... Not only the old school Vtwin, but a Springer front end? There is just something about that bike that tugs on my heart strings!
Brother, you absolutely nailed it with this one. As an S1000RR owner who tested out an R1250RS yesterday, I had similar thoughts. "This is nice but not $2.5k-more-than-an-S1KRR nice." All that aside, I wonder how many people are going to bash this vid w/o watching it.
17 Bikes later, after riding since 1968, I still have an R65LS with half fairing which, even today, is the best touring bike I have owned. Its stone reliable and my example has done 265,000 kms and has a new clutch. Thats all. It still has 150lbs of compression and its by far the most relaxing of touring bikes with a perfect riding position that does not strain your back. Its quiet, the faring is not too large but is effective, its quiet and economical. And in this country with its 100kph speed limit, there is no point in having any more power. It will cruise all day at the speed limit at less than 3000 rpm. I can load it up with luggage or a pillion and it handles the same. Todays examples are unbelievably complex, expensive and at least here, you have to get them serviced at the dealership or the 7 year warranty is void, and on a $35k bike, thats not worth the risk. My R65 is still worth $7k...it was $7k new back in the early 80s. What more could you ask for?
I liked the video but I think the reasons are actually simpler. For a motorbike, torque, stability and handling (which that lower center of gravity improves) are a better choice over raw power and speed.
I test rode a Triumph Tiger 900, KTM 1290 Adventure, Africa Twin, Ducati enduro thing, and a BMW r1200gsa. I bought the GSA. It cost more money, it'll probably need more maintenance, and its definitely slower than some of the other bikes. There was something about the bike, the way it looked, the way it felt that, and the way it sounded that really sold me on it. I could have bought a brand new bike for the same price as this used GSA. None of those other bikes really called to me the way the GS did.
you said it all. BMW Ducati, Guzzi MV Augusta, Aprilia Laverda and Harley all have a personality. As a BMW qualified tech I love BMW but also worked on the others and ridden almost all. The point is what floats your boat and Hondas just leave me dead. The best bike is the one that makes you smile as no matter of power or age. Thats what its about right? After all who would choose a bike over a car if sensible?
I do think that BMW boxer motor holds the lap record at Isle of Man, if its not current it was the record 2018ish. If that is not a reason to argue the reason to keep making one than there is no reason to argue.
Ahah I totally get it. I have a Buell Lightning! Is there faster bikes? Yeah, cheaper bikes yeah... but! I love the weirdness of the Buell. The hopped up aircooled sporty motor, the hollow frame, the giant brake rotor... all of that makes the bike much more interesting to me. And let’s be real. It’s plenty fast!
Cool video. Rebuilding my 83 R100 right now, waiting on parts. One nice thing is they're still making new parts for these old bikes. Easy to work on, fun to ride. Replacing the clutch, flywheel, seals everywhere. I'm gonna ride this bike another 40 years.
There is only one thing better than a lot of engine displacement: more displacement. What works for muscle cars also works for motorcycles. The Instant tourque at low rpm is what I like about big displacement twins. I don't need an engine that's screaming at me at 12.000 rpm, at least not all the time.
My Monster 1200R engine imploded after just a few thousand miles on the clocks. Nine BMW's and zero problems. Yes, BMW's suck... bang, and blow... for many miles to come!
Love your videos shadetree. Tho you never mentioned the BMW K bikes. the K65 and K100 the flying bricks. They never took off like the flat twin. So I'm guessing that's why BMW still makes the boxer. It's damn near bullet proof And as the old saying goes. "If it's not broke don't fix it."
K75, not 65, for the record. The K bikes were intended to supplant the airhead boxer in the mid 80s. 1984 saw the "final edition" R100RT produced. Despite all the virtues (yes, really, VIRTUES LOL) of the K brick engine, the BMW crowd were up in arms over the decision to nix the boxer. BMW responded and produced the airhead through the 1995 model year. Meanwhile the K bikes flourished through the 1997 model year before undergoing a redesign for 1998 with a tweaked brick engine. The 2nd gen K bikes lasted through the 2004 model year. Squeezed in between all of that, BMW introduced the modern new and improved boxer engine (EFI, oil/air cooled) for the 1994 model year. It ran concurrent to the original airhead until the airhead was put to rest after the 1995 model year.
I enjoyed this one quite a bit. I have owned both Harleys and, currently, BMWs as well as each of the 4 major Japanese brands. I never had any issues with Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki or Yamaha but I didn't love them like my Harleys and BMWs. I could care less about any specs on paper, or maintenance issues or any other reason "they" say not to ride this or that bike. There is nothing that sounds like the thunderous Harley or looks as awesome as the boxer. I love the way the torque of the engine makes a R NineT twist to the side when you twist the throttle! So yeah, "Fuck you, that's why!"
That's the reason I have an 81 ironhead. It nice little bike but its not fast, it leaks, and it breaks all the time. for some reason I just love it though. It's like my little piece of history I guess I think it adds to the experience having to tinker with it and all.
I was on a 3500 mile trip in August of '19 when I pulled in western Montana to get some jerky out of saddle bags. Two HDs blew right by without even glancing to see if I needed help. So much for the brotherhood on the road! While I was still there a BMW K1600 GTL stopped even though I gave him the thumbs up. He just wanted to make sure I was good. The rider was cool as can be. The bike sounded sophisticated.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with an opposed twin tho. It’s not less technically “advanced” than anything else. That’s a ridiculous statement shadetree. Completely ridiculous. The model T had an I4 so yeah. It’s totally a newer design. Ok dude. Cool.
Shade Tree, Guilty as charged. My two bikes are a 2000 BMW R1100S and a 2003 HD Sportster Custom. I love throwing a leg over these two bikes because of their heritage and their obsolete technologies. But I always arrive at my destination with a smile on my face and never taking the most direct route. Keep up your great videos.
Aspiring to own a BMW.I foolishly took a S1000R out for a test ride and that was that,both my 2001 and 2007 Hondas now lacks the "finesse" of a BMW so....fingers crossed for 2021
I'm on my 4th BMW. The first 3 were Boxers, and my current is a K1600 GA. The GA is dad jeans rapped around powerlifter's legs. It's faster than any bike that dares want to go up on me. Yet, my R1100RT was my favorite bike to just ride. The feel of that twin accelerating out a corner is invigorating as hell. The GA beats in comfort and storage in every way, but sometimes, you just want a twin
Awesome video!! I hope this helps people gain some perspective on Harleys. I completely agree with the comparison. My neighbor rides an 84 R100 and a 86 Softail primarily (among a few others) He’ll never give those 2 bikes up!! Legendary
Well yes; but, you overlooked the BMW K1600GT/GTL with their state of the art inline sixes - superior technology to those outdated four cylinder Japanese motorbike engines. Having said that, buzzy fours, with their power band and torque curves all up at the top of the rev band do little for me in terms of enjoyment; the six is absolutely sublime with the perfect primary and secondary balance inherent in the inline six layout, and tuned to have a lovely fat and near flat torque curve. As to twins? Why not? Sometimes less is more, and the BMW boxer twins have a great sound and feel. So to do the latest generation of 90º degree offset crank, 270º/450º firing order parallel twins - Triumph and the BMW offerings for example. I don't think it's the number of cylinders or the layout that counts if we're talking technology; the variable valve timing and lift on the BMW1250 boxer is state of the art regardless of the number of cylinders. Personally, I just love the look and sound, along with the low centre of gravity, and low rev torque, giving an effortless and supremely enjoyable riding experience. But hey, that's just me... :-)
The one thing you forgotten mention.... even the worse and/or poorly designed motorcycles, are still motorcycles... which are better than everything. Ever.
The RS is a real world bike. Tour, commute, scratch. It carries 2, has good luggage, and the shaft drive. AND it you get T-boned, it can save your leg. No downsides for me judged on 52 years of daily riding.
Paying more for opposed twins is a bit like watch collecting; people pay thousands (or occasionally even millions) of dollars for something that tells time worse than a $10 Casio. Why? Because of the history and interest of the mechanics. As with a bike, a watch of any sort is actually obsolete due to phones. Randabout way of saying obsolete stuff is sometimes fun. A V8 manual is also obsolete, but I still love it. :D
I'd say there's a good argument for twins being better than inline 4 sports bikes. The twin gives you the power through the more useable portion of the rev range, rather than the inline 4 which doesn't give you anything until 6,7000 rpm, then it takes off like a rocket. I'd much rather have the power lower down
Hey Shadetree - I've been riding motorcycles since 1980 and riding BMW boxers since 1998. I spent several years in late 90's / early 2000's working as a BMW tech in Northern CA. I mention all this to exemplify my love of these bikes. I say you did a fantastic job with this video. You said it yourself - Twins are great to ride. ... The end was F'n awesome. Signed - a BWM GS rider.
We have a couple mentions here, but old (as in more than 15 years younger than me) Shadetree forgot the 4 bikes in the K1600 range, which are a flat/inline 6-cylinder configuration, similar to their iconic car engines, which makes turbine-smooth power (which he likely wouldn't...well...like). But if you ride one without a top box or pillion, like the K1600GT, you can use it to get you quickly to some twisties 2000 miles away, in comfort, and then ride it like a big sportbike when you get there. I own a boxer BMW R1250RT, too, and an inline 4 K1200S, but the K1600 sport-touring and touring bikes are the actual "top of the range" for BMW, and it can fly (not a 'Busa or ZX-14, but 170 mph, plus a ton of torque). Anyhoo, great video!
Great video Josh and Dads Jeans GS owner?!?, guilty as charged!! You did give an indicator why they persist with the Boxer; low centre of gravity. I’m a commuter and tourer having previously owned an Explorer and that triple was a beast to manoeuvre around and get off the stand on a camber; with the GS, no issues and especially when I ride it as far lighter to flick around. We’re bikers at the end of the day and our hearts make over 90% of the decision so agree with your conclusion!!👍🤣👌
Sometimes I get the feeling that Beemer engineers are handing me the big ol' Get Screwed! slip when the main battery is discovered underneath the gas tank instead of the seat, and the manual says, "Replace the battery." Engineers aren't beneath contempt. They think I am though. Yeah. If I have to ask...what? Me worry?
So true. I have a 1983 R65 and just bought an RnineT in September. Prior to the RnineT I owned a Buell XB9SX, which I loved! Plus I love to be able to see the motor on the RnineT, I wish V-Twin more on the Buell was more visible.
I think you're being a bit tongue in cheek. I have owned and daily ridden a K1300S for the last 5 and a half years. It's not a twin, actually it's the first 4 I have ever owned. It has handfuls of power, all usable. The main reason why it's so good is because it's a BMW. BMW twins are fantastic too because on an everyday use they have most of it where you need it. The main thing about BMW is that they're bullet proof. If you service it properly, it will never let you down.
Shadetree Surgeon releases vastly under-rated "Much Motorcycle Adu About Nothing" to charm the two wheel advocates. Huge production value on this one, enjoyed every minute, even enjoyed seeing the click bait title drawing in the crowd of khaki-wearing BMW owners working from home during the pandemic. This is up there with the "Motorcycles should be illegal" video, also a classic. Always a fresh take on an old subject, not easy to do. Well done.
Had 77 R100S 79 R00RT 84 K100 90K1 94 R100RS: never let down never stranded never failed to deliver thrills . Not perfect but for my money and desires were the best
Single-bank radial engines have odd numbers of cylinders, so if all but two cylinders are removed they'll never be opposed on a flat plane like a boxer motor.
