RTA comparison of doors vis kick response looking at the harmonic distortion and noise. If you like the channel consider subscribing to my Patreon / rawcat Or, you can make a donation to my PayPal: www.paypal.me/...
You have been killing it with the videos lately. You don't know how much they have helped me with my little mini truck build. Thanks for doing these, I can't be the only one you've helped.🙂
This is a very useful demonstration and a great tutorial on how installers can evaluate installation driven distortion. For those stuck with door speaker locations, this measurement technique could also be used to evaluate the effectiveness of deadening, speaker mounting rings, etc.
Very interesting video! Thank you a lot for your excellent work. I believe Mercedes and BMW higher class cars have woofers under the dash in leg area and slim underseat woofers rather than the doors. So they seem to address this problem with rattling. I myself own a Subaru Forester and I am thinking making a underseat box with $15 6.5 inch slim woofer GRS 6LPSW-4 6-1/2" which has 48 Hz - 1.5kHz range on Parts Express. Usable range with good linearity is up to 600 herz. I also got a MDF enclosure 5.5 liters for 11 dollars. Will try it next week. My current setup is Android unit with 8 channel DSP which I got for $160, Audison AP 690 in the doors, FaitalPro 3fe22 as mids and some Kicker tweeters which I took from other set. I have also ordered Dayton measurement microphone for next week, will measure rattling as you did.
I have a factory speaker down there that was for the navigation or something in my Mercedes-Benz. Now u got me thinking of swapping them and putting some power to em! 🤔
This is one of the best videos out there on the subject. I've always considered door mounting speaker a total flaw. Just putting your hand on the outside door skin you feel the amount of energy lost as vibrations. Unfortunately, 90% of car manufacturers don't care about SQ....and genpop doesn't either. Only the higher end models have descent sound systems.
Nice comparison mate, always nice to see non-subjective stuff on this hobby, been learning a lot from you! I'm curious about in a 2-way set, where the midbass would play for up to 4khz, if there's still that much buzz and rattling, and how would it compare to the kicks, apart from the beaming problem.
Kicks if you car can take them. Not all cars have space for it. My pathetically small VW is a case in point. :) I miss my old '89 Audi. Space for everything in that old tank. I think we need a car with better build quality. :D That's some nasty buzzing even with deadening and padding. What did you mean when you said the kicks are venting outside into the wheel well? Enjoying the videos. Much appreciated.
I have big expectation for the doors in my T-bird in the next month. Only CLD so far with almost no rattles(pretty good for a 90s car)and headunit power crossed at 50. I do have foam on hand for eventually decouple. My thinking is they are big, older metal and decent crash bar, so better than average than most shit box. 100 watts we shall see. Might be a junior class sleeper without ruining the panels for tweeter placement
The thicker metal might help with that. And the fact that older door cards don't have many parts, usually it's just a single piece that doesn't have joints or buttons. Your case might be an exception😉
If you have a BMW g20 where are the best location to put mids (alreay got focal TBM 3.5WM) Option -Kicks can’t do too small -make a hole in door to put 6wm -6wm in underseat (lower VAS) no floor cutting -8wm in underseat no floor cutting
Hey, I just want to tell you that I put the oneaudio mb8 in 4.5 liter pre built sub box and put them under the seat. They sound amazing. The distortion is under 1 percent, peaked at 2 at box resonant frequency (180?). I feel I could almost see the bass guitar at the top front. And it's really punchy after tuning and time aligning. I had to lower the DB by 9 DB from the peak to cross at 60-300 then have faital pro 3 inch taken over. Maybe build a small box and test it and make video about it? Haha The box is too thick to slide under my seats so I just leave them at the passenger foot well for now.
Question, is it necessary to have door midbasses if u already have the kick midbasses? Given that either would be crossed over cover same frequencies. Many thanks
I have a jbl fuse 8" under each seat playing stereo bass up to 200Hz. They cross into 4" mids in the doors and that cleaned up the rattling almost entirely.
Sometimes I hate you. I literally just spent 45min trying to see if i could fit a 6.5inch ring in my kicks. Hood latch is in the way for the most part and bcm module is up by the firewall so it would be difficult. But I could stack fab and notch out around things in the way. Wouldn't be very easy at all though. I'd have to go inverted and fairly shallow mount.
Haha, sorry about that😂 I had to cut and solder many wires to make space on the driver side. Passenger is easier as there is more space. Pros are relocating while fuse boxes and resoldering 10s of wires... But at the end it is totally worth it😉
isn't part of kick placement being preferred for sq due to the distance measured from the speakers to your ears having less of a difference from left to right, than with door placement??
No. Due to the use of DSP this old school technique has no real benefit in this day and age. Kicks are used for better frequency response and sturdier mounting.
But kicks are infinitely harder when you don’t have that location already! How do I add kicks easily!? I tore apart my CDT 6x9 subwoofers free air in the doors
Kicks depending on the car might not be easy or it might be much easier than swapping out door speakers. I had to relocate some wires, some people have to relocate fuse boxes. Some can just cut a circular hole and bolt a ring🤷 It varies.
The volume of the pods will limit the low end extension. If you have a front subwoofer and you are ok for the midbass playing only down to 80-90Hz, pods will be fine. But if you want 8s to play down to 60Hz, You need IB.
Man, I was looking at waterfall and distortion, but didn't really see anything. I guess there is no extra overhang, but the extra energy that gets distributed and is calculated as "noise"🤷
@@RAW-CAt What you are looking for are the "fingers" that pop out at the bottom. Those are the resonances. You should see more on the door measurements. I'd be interested to see if you can send me some sweeps
So a shity door build with a 6" driver and plastic infront of it sounds worse than a solid aluminium bolted kick with a 8". Sorta obvious. But I get what you saying. Thanks for the testing effort.
Yes, a typical factory door with an average amount of deadener performs worse than a proper solid kick build. My doors are the same or slightly better than 95% of car audio doors. So I think it is very good to show people what they are missing out on.
"Hi. In my car, there's no way to avoid placing the mid-bass speakers in the doors. What do you think about putting the mid-bass speakers in two flat subwoofer enclosures designed to fit under the seats? Alternatively, I could make a subwoofer for the front out of a similar box. Whats your opinion?
Underseat work well but keep in mind you must have a 4 in midrange to make this work because the frequency response under seat rolls off under 200hz so you need the 4 in midrange to play low to meet it. It is unfortunately the tradeoff such is the life in this hobby, it's always a game of tradeoffs.
@@justinhogan7248 True. And usually, if you can't fit midbass at good location, you can't fit 4" midrange, anywhere, either. Car audio generally sucks big time, unless: a) you are lucky with the car itself where designers did amazing job with factory speaker locations, or, b) you are willing to turn your car's interior into frankencar (which also might not be legal, depending on your country laws).
@@RAW-CAt I was thinking and just now understood the reason why there is buzzing above 100Hz. All car manufactures specify the first natural frequency of any component to be above 150-200Hz so that the components don't fail due to structural stress. And unfortunately it bad for Car Audio. Does this means midrange in doors is also bad?😢
@@rajasekhar9840 a 3in mid will transfer much less energy than a beefy 6.5. midranges have much lower moving mass so they don't excite the surroundings that much.
This is truly a unfair comparison..... 1st 8" up against a 6.5" 2nd cutting holes in the floor/firewall/wheelwells is borderline totaling your car, if you get into a accident and they insurance or body shop see's that its almost definitely going to be a huge problem.
The size 8 vs 6.5 has nothing to do with the comparison as both drivers are playing at the same volume. Neither of them are being run into distortion or xmax. What does the 2nd point of yours have to do anything with the content of the video? I do understand that you might be concerned, however that is off topic.
@RAW-CAt it's not off topic at all........ very few people are willing to cut holes into the structural part of their car. If you wanted to be somewhat fair you should've deducted the noise that the 8 made in the door from the noise the 6.5 made in the door. I get you're making content and I like your content but this just has too many different variables and once again a very small amount of people are willing to "cut holes" in their floor/kick/wheelwell/firewall for the small benefit. Once again if you took the amount of rattle away from the 6.5 that the 8 ended up giving to the door anyway...........it's not nearly as much of a benefit. Cheerios
@@everyangle4310 that "very small benefit" is clearly audible, so it is not very small. It might look small on a graph, but in real world it changes how punchy and clean the midbass is. Agree that not everyone can cut a car, but this is what we do for ultimate SQ.
Obstructions block only the high frequencies. Low frequencies get through everything. Like the subwoofer goes through seats. Even carpet covered over a midbass driver won't affect much. In a typical 3 way the midbass from the kics play up to 200-250Hz only. Passenger legs or any other obstructions at those frequencies have 0 impact.
Objects only begin affecting the sound when they are 1/4 the wavelength or more. 100hz is about 9 feet long so your legs aren’t doing anything. If you’ve heard that “your legs block the sound” that was probably someone talking about click panels playing up to 2000hz or so. Doesn’t apply to midbass.
Why? This is a demonstration of a single sine tone at the same level from both drivers. Center of a car has the distances from all drivers the same and the angles are the same for the microphone. Not sure if you actually understand what I am demonstrating here🤔
