This isn’t it… 

did they also replace their marketing department with an ai? WTF was that 2012 Machinima music with TTS voice over shitty annimations video lol...

Neural network processing genuinely has been a revolution in audio processing and analog emulation, the open source NAM and Proteus are amazing. Calling Machine Learning 'AI' still makes me cringe

The thing is I don’t think we know WHAT tape does. It’s frequency dependent, velocity, amplitude with harmonic character. All the devices I have tried are static.

That plugin really isn’t it 😂 It sounded so shrill compared to your tape machine. It does something nasty to the hi mids - almost sounds like a high Q EQ boost. Thanks for another great video.

Isn't that Sandworm by Ja Rule? Your tape machine has much more presence in the lows and mids. It sounds way better.

The plugin seemed to lose the center image, or push the sides more, and comes across as harsher. The real tape keeps the mid channel up front and the top end stays smooth and pleasant.

Dude, as soon as you put on the "real" tape machine , the kick become fat, nice rounded and puffy 😌amazing...

Yeah as you said in 13:50.... the tape machine sounds so much better than the plugin. Especially the lows. And the hights too, because they are not so harsh. Great video and comparison!!

yea make a video of you calibrating the tape machine dope video

to me it sounds like if the real thing had way more impact on lower frequencies adding the pleasant warmth and some like 3D feeling? while the vst resembled something like ozone sound giving it that digital signature feeling which isn't quite polished due to the harshness

The term "AI" is enormously misused, for example there were server/PC cabinet manufacturers at Computex in Taiwan and AI was also widely advertised there. When they asked, what does that cupboard have to do with AI? They replied, yes, you can put an AI system in that cupboard. Blah lol. We also still have 2 Otari tape machines in the tracking studio. Much better than plugins. But indeed quite a lot of ssssssssssssssssssssssss that's what we filter out with Reaper's ReaFIR.

"a lot of aliasing" - aliasing doesn't even start above -110 dbs. Its fine in terms of aliasing.

Just sounds like crunch

If that sounds like tape then their AI was learning from a terrible or broken machine. Nothing like any tape I've ever heard. That high end break up is atrocious.

Just to let you know, the tape M is completely broken when used in 48k. If that's what you're mixing in the results will sound terrible compared to what the plugins actually is meant to sound like.

That tambourine sounded harsh AF. Keep up the good work!

They didn't mention the tape machines they were training it on. Who knows, if the devices were already in a bad state to begin with and then AI just has to deal with SISO data (shit in, shit out).

Yes, please do make the alignment video. Would come in very handy, as I have the exact same machine here :) I'm planning on recapping the PSU's soon.

Talking as a data scientist with master degree, their machine learning department really don’t know what they are talking about, it requires a lot of cpu or gpu (gpu mainly actually) to train your hundreds of parameters, even millions, based on training and test data. But when trained, these neural networks weights are actually not gonna retrain anymore, they know their weight and won’t readjust afterwards. I actually think tape emulation with neural network is a thing and can work, but the issue is not the model itself, but what parameter you allowed to the model and if you have too much of them, then it can be RAM and Cpu intensive, this is why you then penalize your model to have less freedom and still behave as a tape

Now they have a real reference with your actual machine. I think they will be very thankful for your test and be able to fix! 👍😉

Yeah the AI one is slightly brighter imo but it may be due to say the tapehead being cleaner or just the actual unit they used to test to is different by a slight margin as electronic components have +/- ratings on components usually like 1% 5% or 10% etc.. these values can make a difference in audio filter applications. Are these at the same gain levels or is the AI one slightly higher? You should snapshot eq to compare the outputs. Also I am wondering if the plugin runs at 32 bit float and what hz ratings it processes at? Analog is generally going to be as good as the ADA converter and its own SNR while the plugin in the box is going to be based upon the CPU or dsp engine running it.

so if you leave the noise on and the denoise the plugin it would sound more realistic right?

So when using any sort of tape plugin, should you not insert one at the bottom of your FX rack (recording to tape, assuming all analog plugins/pedals/boxes) and ALSO on your master track (printing of master tape to the stereo tape)?

nothing pisses me off more than developers who build noise into their emulations without the ability to turn it off. it's all because of fetishization of analog equipment which is way more important to some people than a good sound. drives me nuts.

i wonder what the machine they modelled sounds like because i feel like this just didnt sound great in the first place without even comparing it to the real one

Love the sound of the real tape. The plugin is cool for saturation and high boost and some crack.

I use tape emulation plugins to simply add some "analog" color - not make my mixes sound as if they were recorded on a reel-to-reel. I find this to be a much reasonable, practical and honest way to look at "this whole thing." :)

for some reason the real tape machine seems to be making the stereo image wider as well

I always hear how snare drums are really alive on tape vs the digital whatever version. Tape is unbeatable

Apple uses a Neural Engine, correct. It’s the same thing as a Neural Network how it’s normally called by other chipsets from Intel, AMD, NVIDIA and so on. If we take a look at Mac computers with an M1 chip or higher, they can utilize the Neural Engine by using the Audio Unit (AU) plug-in format. The latest update for Logic Pro (Mac and iPad) is using AI for the Stem Splitter (really good stuff) and also the Chroma plugin and the virtual players. This is an example that developers can use a Neural Engine for plugins utilizing AI powered functions.

where is the bottom end gone on the plugin, for my it sound like a cassette with chrome tape in it

Only tape does tape, however, I just purchased the Victor-Custom 456 & it's staying on my mixbus! The craftsmanship is great & it sounds much better than plugins. His units are built for each customer & very affordable.

I really like the low mid width & punch that the real tape adds. It reminds me of the 495 hardware vs plugin comparison where the plugin also lacked the low mid width & punch that the hardware provided.

I’ll hang on to my neve 542’s a little longer…

In my experience, 0’s and 1’s can’t compete with sending audio through actual circuits. It all adds up when tracking all parts through analog and then printing the final mix. If you record everything digital and then AB the finished product, the difference is not subtle to my ears.

They're good in both ways, the real tape sounds darker and fuller in lows while still gives that tape power

youtube codec only lowpasses at 17 KHz in certain circumstances but in normal circumstances you get full 256 kbps opus audio low passed only at 20K

What kind of tape do you use on your tape machine?

cana san martin plugins?

yes it comes accross youtube, can hear the difference.

Almost sounds like bitcrushing. I feel the plugin developers went as close as they could without thinking about aliasing and put the noise there as a quick fix instead of fixing the root cause problem. Honestly this shows that using AI still means you have to understand signal processing on a high level to implement things. These developers did not. I guess they basically have to redo the whole tech considering any regard to aliasing is missing, so this is almost like a way to get something out of a failed experiment instead of an actual product.

It seems that with normal tape machine the sound effects ower all and the plug in only effect the high sound

Would love to see a Tape Machine alignment video

The original sounds warm and lively. The plugin is cold and dead and distorts the highs.

There is that classic soft but thumpy, large yet fitting low end of real tape - aswell as the overall smoothing of the audio, aswell as that dulled high end that needs to be boosted after. I'm not sure what was happening with the plugin, if you was using it at 48khz, there is a known bug

The TAPE M AI sounds fake AF when compared to the real tape machine shown in this video.

your tape machine sounded fuller to my ears. listening through a quality set of headphones on my laptop through youtube and you could still feel the difference in that the real machine wins.

Thanks for the Video! I would still like you to try the UA studer plugin and the Kalifornia Dynamic Alkaline Saturation plugin. Keep pushing 🎉

im in my 50's, grew up listening to vinyl and tape. This sounds like a early consumer 1/4 inch 2 track reel from the 70's . which its perfect if you are trying to mimic that aged, old tech sound for period piece. i had a old akai reel and i used radio shack reels in it which sounded similar to that.

Having a better tape machine is such a oxymoron if i ever heard one 😂

There is a known bug if using 48k. Used it at 44.1k without these issues. The developers are looking to sort the bug. Definitely a plugin to watch.

Not sure if you have Logic but have you tried out Chromaglow yet?

Hi! It would you mind running the training signal through your tape machine so i can run train Neural amp modeler with it? There is just one Studer available now and it sounds good but it was done in a rush i think. Let me know if youd like to set it up, it would be really cool!!!

When I trialed it I couldn’t stand how the GUI worked. I don’t think there was a way to manually type in values which drove me nuts.

My tape machine is only a tascam-tsr 8 (12 inch 8 track 7.5/15 ips) however it sounds amazing especially for dub and lo-fi. The problem is each tape is £100 (i wont use new/old stock, too much sticky shed on 456) and i need to spend money periodically maintaining the machine ( needs new roller tyres just now, and probably a capstan belt replacement) Also its a pain messing around degaussing it etc. mostly it just sits under a dust cover as it s a dog hair magnet !

Please do the tape realignment vid pls

Dunno what is the obsession with adding noise. I want my mixes clean. If I'm ever adding a specific kind of 'noise' it's usually to create a specific character for an instrument or effect to a track. All I hear from this plugin is brittle highs. If that's what I'm after then a bit crusher and EQ will do the trick. Though this plugin is far from emulating tape. I think the AI algorithm needs to learn a lot more.

I could hear the difference between the two even over RU-vid on my iPhone speakers with my eyes closed. But then again, every tape machine Sounds different, what Unit did they use to train the ai? What tape did they use? So many variables…

The noise is part of the analog sound.

It's not tape machine emulation but a really good subtle saturation (the stereo version) 'cuz I can'not able to don't overdrive the 808 in my beats but maybe is could help!

I love my tape machines, but the noise can be left out as far as I'm concerned. The noise part is not something the actual model learned to do I think. Something about neural networks in audio processing. What's usually done is that you have an audio file you feed through the device you want to capture, this means there's a before and after. When training the network learns what to do to the 'before' to produce something similar to the target. Now we get to running the network on your plugin. We put in an audio sample and we get out a new audio sample. Just time domain processing and no FFT's. A network like this doesn't know anything but the data it's fed. This does fall within AI, and is usually referred to as Narrow Artificial Intelligence. This means it's good at a single task. The content of audio you feed to a network to train is greatly affecting the result, the type of network plays a large part as well. WAY more to talk about but this should uncover a little bit of the mystery Edit: not sure what they're doing with their APU's tbh

MCI sound very well with solid low end and smooth on top, but I think it makes no sense to compare it. The vst is not based on your tape machine with your tape and your calibration.

The real tape has an emphasis on the low mid and have a bit more presence and image..

The tape machine brings a really nice punch to the snare and kick with a smoother overall top end, while the plugin has none of that punch in the snare and kick with a fizzy sounding top end.

The best piece of kit to bring tape/analogue vibe back into your didital work is the Rupert Neve Designs Portico 5042 (now the 542) I bought my first unit in 2007 and still use them in every session, every day, even print tracks through them to build up the vibe. Save up your cash and buy two units and you will never have analogue envy again and won't need any AI rubbish.

On emulation plug-ins, I often don’t choose “Noise ON” (because I just don’t like THAT noise) but I have a hard time agreeing with automatic “NO NOISE” approach. Because it’s part of analog…& we hate how digital never sounds like analog, while we laugh at ourselves for previously trying to make real-analog sound less noisy. Well let’s get rid of dither 🤷‍♂️ My point is the analog noise was doing something pleasing, even if we were gating it, etc.

Never mind the plugin, they already hit snake oil territory when that promo video listed self driving cars as one of the things machine learning could already do. Jokes aside, my completely unverifiable gut feeling is that this is conventional tape emulation using EQ/waveshaping/etc. and the "AI" element is that they used machine learning to adjust the parameters of their algorithm to match a real tape machine until they felt it was close enough. So more of an "AI calibrated tape emulation." A totally legitimate, potentially really good use of machine learning - that's pretty much what the Sonnox plugins are doing, and I use a couple of them a lot (especially Smart:Limit). The difference there is that they're transparent about what's actually happening.

seems like they put in a smile shaped EQ curve as well.

painful highs even through telephone speakers... I'm very sensitive to these frequencies tho, but man, the sound changes too much and the vibe as well.

Interesting. You can definitely hear the real tape rolling off some high end. The VST sounds brighter.

Can I be honest .. I tested some Ai stuff like the neuron and AI master mix .. But i cant recomend it .. If you listen very good then you hear it isolate the sounds .. Not what you want in a mix .. The mix will sound overproduced or just cropped and lame .. I recommend not to use this .. Then you should learn when you need to compress because i noticed that much people dont now why they wanna do that .. I made this week a new track with all these adivice form an audio guy. And i didnt use compression but I made sure that the sound sources I recorded were 100 percent good with a good microphone.. This is the holy grail for a beginner .. Be sure your sound source is very good and then you dont have to do much ! You only need some light EQ and reverb and maybe a clipper on the master .. Then Tape effect is not usable on every mix .. somtimes you want clarity or a hot rod fired up mix if you do metal for example ..

You can hear the compression on the real tape and there's nothing on the plgun. I use Slates VTM most of the time and I think it sounds pretty good. 😎

theres a stray peak on the tambo poking out thats getting driven. needs a little fabfilter notch

Analog will always contain real soul, inherit to natural imperfections and real non aliased waveform curvature. Got a reel to reel a few months ago and never going back for final prints.

WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOU REVIEW THE GOLD CLIP PLUGIN

And if you ask a pro, "what is the best tapamachine ?" He will answer, "that one with no distortion at all, and with no noice at all. But thats only possible on paper". So why in search of bad equipment, or even worse, why emulate it ?

Hiss is an integral part of tape. Perhaps a Dolby emulator might be more authentic? I just prefer to use tape..... even despite the extra work, because the result is predictably rich.

I in fact do think it'd be cool to see a video about calibration/alignment of a tape machine. I never got to work with them, so I'm always intrigued.

The plugin’s hi-mids are like sandpaper in my headphones, your tape was butter. If the devs did any AB testing, putting this out for people to purchase is deceptive. With that output and the weird promo video, I get the vibe that this one might go beyond the typical overhyped startup snake oil into a full blown scam of a development. I’d put money that there isn’t even any machine learning involved 😅😅😅

Always with that digital harshness in the high end. Cannot get past that one.

Listening purely to the plugins and ignoring true characteristics of tape, my ears prefer the sound of the Tape M AI vs the Tape S AI. But I agree with you that it's waaaaay to hot. For me this would be fixed by either adding a mix option or just having the drive range be from -10 to 3 ;)

an imitation will never be as good as the real thing

I mean, this is entirely a matter of taste, but I’ve never been sure why everyone’s so nuts about tape saturation in the first place; valve saturation has always sounded so much sweeter to me because of all the even-order harmonics.

I still don't understand why AI would be needed to do a tape simulation??? Isn't it just electronics that have to be simulated in physical models??? AI is not doing any good here.

All this stuff with AI getting it wrong, and people still burning through limited energy to swear it'll get it right this time just makes me wish the analog CPU trend will take off the rest of the way.

You going to make a video on kraftur by soundtheory soon? (The gullfoss makers)

SSL E series with noise gate on every channel. Whoot Whoot!

The JH-24 sounds better than the plugin, but the original (bypassed) sounds better than either. It seems to me that they are 'Turning-Off' more than just the noise alone, when you turn off the 'Noise', they can fool people into thinking that it's the Noise making it sound better, when it's really just anti-aliasing being turned ON.

Real tape 4life, yo

Nowadays plugins companies just want to put the sticker Ai on their plugins as if it was some proof of quality. The problem is that using Ai becomes the first requirement and sounding good or sounding better than existing solutions is an afterthought. It’s like in the 90 where they would put lasers everywhere even when it doesn’t make sense like a widget that is supposed to help you stop smoking.

Absolutely Night and Day between the tape machine and the plugin. Depth texture and musicality in the tape machine. Crunch flatness and a lot of nothing in the plugin.

The UAD Ampex tape emulation is similar to this plug-in. It doesn't do anything to the bass, but it really pushes the treble, totally unlike your tape machine. The Studer does the opposite, more or less, and sounds a lot closer to your real take machine. But doesn't have the treble of this plug-in, unless you really push it. The plug-in needs over sampling. UAD process audio at 192 khz.

I thought the Low Pass Filter thing only occurs, when you rip something off YT. But in the App the Audio is fine. 🤔

Great video, thanks! It's wacky how in 2024 companies still sweep the aliasing problem under an ever-more-crowded carpet when making new products, especially when companies like Three Body, UAD and Neold have already made great strides in this direction year(s) ago -- for my vote, since I work entirely in the box, I'd find more value in having AI-esq processes directed toward minimizing the aliasing problems rather than making super-accurate emulations of the hardware... that I have to oversample a lot to use... gently... because they alias like it's '08...😂too harsh? Happy mixing!

I should have thought that tech based on impulse responses and extrapolations between them would have been more promising for catching the qualities of tape in digital. I know that Acustica Audio and I think Overloud have taken that sort of approach. There would still be aliasing, so some anti-aliasing approach would still be necessary. Perhaps machine learning could have some application in developing impulse response-based technology. But this approach of merely trying to reproduce the output with different inputs over many hours might be a little bit of a blunt use of an otherwise sophisticated approach.

The hardware machine costs around 10K euros used? And the plugin around 29 euros? How do you justify a 10k euro purchase? See this video. A hit isn't a hit because you used a 10k euro tape machine, is it? And, you still have to wire the tape machine so that it even works with a DAW. So even more costs. But, I like old school hardware. There's something retro about it. Nobody needs it today, but somewhere nice, right?

Good to see people still making high quality porn soundtracks.

Hornet tape sounds much more similar.

"If we are going to simulate analog equipment, do we really need to simulate the downsides of it?" IMO, yes. That's all analog did...add distortion. In the past, if analog had "upsides", then why did everyone rush towards the perfection of digital?

It sounds tinny and crunchy... ill stick with my UA Struder