THIS may be DRAINING your Battery Overnight! (Lincoln MKX -Part 1) 

For techs 60 yrs and up. Do you all find this as overwhelming as I do. I’ve been at this since 1972 before electronic ignition, fuel injection , computers and networks. I’ve seen the expansion of electronics. But using this many networks just blows my 68 yr old mind. I enjoy watching Ivan tackle these jobs but I realize there has to be a limit to how many techs understand these systems. I’ve seen the blank looks in class on a lot easier systems over the years. I’ve seen the number of cars Ivan tackles that dealer techs can’t figure out with their overwhelming info advantage. I wont be surprised to hear there are a lot who don’t comprehend everything he does. I’m not too proud to admit I don’t. I consider myself in the top 10% of techs on electrical diagnostic skills but see that I’m falling behind since I retired 6 yrs ago. Just interested in what you older guys think. The young 40 and less can chime in too. I won’t be offended. Del

My bank account had a parasitic draw once. Took me years to get rid of her.

Can only imagine what is the problem module this time around. Looking forward to part 2!

Some of us dealer techs deserve some credit but I cant deny most are after the almighty dollar and an easy day of maintenance. Videos like yours though keep people who love the hunt sharp and remind you that sometimes you have to slow down and solve an individual persons problem

Dedication to your craft at its absolute finest. Ivan it is because of techs like you that makes watching you a joy

I haven't had to deal with a parasitic draw yet. I have the scope. I keep watching you and Eric diagnose these.

For cases like this it would be really interesting to use pico serial decoding to get the CAN ID of that first message that appears on wakeup. Once you have the message ID, you could find out which module that belongs to by just monitoring the network in a normal ignition on state, and pulling fuses for each module on the network until the ID of interest disappears. For this to work you would need to sample the network at a high enough rate to be able to decode it, and also use the very first message only, as once one module has started transmitting it may wake other modules as well.

Thank you Ivan for showing how valuable a scope can be in helping track down misbehaving modules like this. Knowing the info you just gathered from the scope will seriously cut down the list of suspects in this case study. Your right though. Without the help of the scope, a problem like this could take days, or even weeks to hopefully discover the problem. And would most likely allude someone like me from ever finding it. I can't wait to see what you find in part 2.

i used to have a lot of parasitic draws was always able to figure it out checking fuses with meter finally got a scope and haven't had one yet hope i don't forget how when it happens. beauty of RU-vid is i can pull up so many of your videos to get me started

I love watching you diagnose. I feel smarter and have learned a lot

Customer complaint proved! Now the challenge is finding which module or modules awaken and hopefully the cause. It is a bummer when the only thing you find is the module that awakens and not what actually awakens the module. I appreciate the module could be faulty, however identifying the module is only one part of the diagnosis. the other is determining if it is a faulty module or if it is an external issue that is buried in the depths of the vehicle or wiring loom somewhere, either OEM or worse still, aftermarket. Either way, confirming the root cause before calling the module could be an expensive bugger. I am looking forward to part 2.

"They probably don't even know how to use an ammeter"- Ivan LOL

3 amps for 10 seconds every 100 seconds is only 0.3 amps average. Your typical car battery is at least 50 amp-hours so it should hold out for at least 100 hours. So it should not be dying overnight, more like after 4 days or so. Or maybe the stress of losing 1/4 of the charge and recharging that much the next day, maybe that wore out or dried up the battery. Waiting for part 2!!

Hopefully the wiring diagram will be helpful in locating the problem module. Taking the problem CAN network out from the gateway loop or taking it apart also called isolation is the best way to find the problem, IF you can do that. THIS problem should be "Very Interesting!" Very much looking forward to part 2 ! !

Simply amazing! And there's no way any dealer can do what you are doing, they would not have the patience, and I would guess that their techs would not have the training. Can't wait for the mystery to be solved.

Wow, Ivan that was really cool diagnosis of the parasitic draw!! Glad you had the experience to find out right down to brass tacks!!! Nice job Ivan. Let's see what happens in part 2.. i bet it is the cluster or the radio problem, as i remember your past videos!

I was totally into this, not realizing it was about to end. Pumped for part two

Very interesting case, if not annoying for being intermittent! Thought process of a real Sherlock Holmes, Ivan 🙂Like most network problems, impossible to have a clue without a scope. I find it maybe telling, that there is only a slight increase in current, before it triggers an event that wakes the network. If it weren't regular like a clock, I would say a parasitic current somewhere (green crusties or water intrusion), but being so regular, it must be a module on its own. Curious to see which one is the culprit - let Part 2 begin soon 🙂

Ivan, you tend to focus on the fact that Ford vehicles take extended time to go to sleep. I bought my Mercury when it had 92 miles on it and was being used as a demonstrator. I got the car home and was admiring my new car (I have grown up since then!) and suddenly the air compressor started (it is equipped with rear-air-suspension.) I talked to a technician at the dealership and he told me that air compressor can run up to 29 minutes after the ignition has been cycled. That car is 27 years old. So, I can conclude that has been going on for many years. Great video!

Every 1 minute & 40 seconds! No wonder the battery goes dead! Part 2 hopefully has the answer to what it is! Thanks Ivan! Very interesting for sure!

Oscilloscopes are awesome tools. I was a computer software engineer (retiired now), and for much of my career, I kept an actual old fashion analog oscilloscope on the workbench next to my desk along with a variable power supply, a digital multimeter, and a signal generator. Those were the basic tools of an electronics bench technician in the 1970s-90s, but I found that o-scope useful for all sorts of realtime computer software debugging, as I was working on IO device drivers much of my career.

Just thought I would let you know my favorite tool to find parasitic draws in general is a thermal camera. Found a P.A.T.S. module awake in a Lincoln Navigator last time I used it and it was behind the dash. Found in about 20 seconds.

Between your vids and SMAs I've been getting a daily dose of watchable videos...

Thank you for your time and video of this issue! I was having the same problem and after a quick youtube search found your video. After watching i started taking off the side panel trim and unplugged as you stated. Wahla! It worked. Been a couple weeks and hasn't drain the battery since. Save me hundreds of dollars if not more. No way a dealership wouldve done this.

The cause of this is the "welcome" feature on your Lincoln (when your car seems to wake up once you get close enough to it with your key fob). If your Lincoln is dying overnight it's because you're parking your car close to the house or in the garage, and keeping your keys in a spot close enough to initiate the "welcome" feature, door never opens, allowing it to fade out, and then once off it re initiates the same feature and same cycle over and over until your battery completely dies....you're welcome. And if you actually watched this whole video ... 🤦 You'll never get that time back

Predictability always helps! It's gonna be interesting to see what this turns out to be!

Nice Video Ivan , NO Dealer would go this far ! lol

Thanks Ivan for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. That is what makes a true loving human being. Peace. Scott.

I can imagine dealer would have replaced at least 4 module before even start measuring.Looking forward to part 2.

"...four channel scope!" Beautifully detailed capture of the event. Well done Ivan!

"They probably don't even know how to use an ammeter..." LOL!

You are a genius to diagnose this parasitic draw. Similar to looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack. You should take bets on which module(s) are the culprit.

Wow man! Can I say genius! Master of your craft sir!

Wow! What a mess - replaced 2 batteries already! Heading over to Part 2 now!

Hey Ivan! Long time, no see! (MY fault). Man, that thing is CRAZY complicated. THIRTY modules!! Insanity! Imagine one of these in a flood - you'd end up burning it trying to diagnose it, LOL! 🤣Can't wait to see the cause of this one. 👍😎👍

Oh boy, this one is gonna be fun. Can’t wait for the solution. I too have a “parasitic draw” Ivan….known as a wife and kids in college…😂😂 Not as easy to replace those modules, need a NPR repair. Always a great ride my man.

Sitting on this one for a bit......leaves still on the trees....(Greetings from NE PA.....)

Ghost in the machine. Gotta love it.

Your detective skills have greatly improved the action plan. Great video!

You do great step by step diag never forgetting to start with the basics. 👍🏾

My papi said son you're going to drive me to drinkin if you don't stop driving that hot rod Lincoln😁👍🇨🇦

Fordtechmakuloco has a parasitic draw video from a year ago or so. On a Ford escape. Rear wiper motor was seized but module was attempting to PARK the arm. Pulled upto 4amps for 10secs. Killing battery over night.

1 min 40 seconds = 100 seconds or 100,000msec. Not a coincidence!

Dealer would they do anything about? Probably don’t know how to use an amp meter. 😂😂😂 good one Ivan.

Thanks Ivan for the video you do great work as always 👍❤️❤️❤️

I am so glad that my car has 5 modules. Older cars are superior. They can sit for months and not go dead lol.

Hi Ivan , part 2 ASAP please, can't wait. Many thanks super interesting problem.

Reset the BMS 1st. Looking forward to the conclusion.

I love your scope diagnostics because I learn so much. Thn friends wonder why I grab mine when doing elect diags.

What is concerning me more than anything is the fact that these cars are taking multiple hours/days to diagnose. I just don't see this fitting in with the dealership business model. It isn't likely a service writer/dealership is going to commit the time, training, equipment and expertise to properly diagnose these issues. The best part, these are NEW cars. What will they be like in the future? Great vodep!

Using the SWAG method I would guess anti-theft circuit. Like door locks , what is suppose to help causes the owner the most grief.

IVAN, AWESOME thought process and approach brother you right on modern cars to diagnose electrical problem a SCOPE is must with out it you go no where to find the problem thanks for sharing and as always learning form the best. cheeeeeeers

Weird. Literally reading about load shedding in a chrysler book when this video popped up haha perfect timing!

Ivan, pretty cool! On to Part 2. Thanks for Sharing!

Good evening Ivan Thanks for the new video

Just acquired grandfather’s 2016 3.7L MKX, has only 12,000 miles. Put new battery, air filters etc, drove home 750 miles. Week later battery draining parked overnight. Unplugged a AAA device from port under steering column thinking that maybe cause. Now battery holding for days but on last road-trip and since last jumpstart the Nav and infotainment have gone black? Car driving fine just missing all the tech

Is it possible to have a modern US domestic vehicle with less than 30 modules? 😂 I think we surpassed the reliability limit a long time ago… Very interesting case study, Ivan 👍

Ivan, Great video and interesting case study - thank you! Looking forward to part 2 Paul (in MA)

With these PITA wakeups I wonder if it would be beneficial to have something listening to the CANBUS(es) and logging the addresses of the transmitters to track down which module is behind the problem more easily.

Ivan you scared me when you mentioned there are 30 modules on board. Cant wait to see part 2. I am gonna say its the Entertainment system?? Haha

I wonder if it is possible to read that data that is being transferred. If so, maybe the modules ID themselves when the talk to each other. You have great troubleshooting skills, Ivan!

for monitoring these stubborn parasitic draws Ivan, you might find my GADGETS#168 interesting

Someone mentioned in a comment how locking your vehicle can prevent some electrical draws, not sure if this is true. I think the commenter was talking specifically about Subaru's.

Great video Ivan!!! Super interesting.

If it was me, I'd be reaching for the thermal camera. I'm sure that's enough power to show up.

Ivan... U have forgotten what you have taught us!!! 3amp draw for 10seconds. I just timed myself!! I can test 7 fuses for a voltage in 10s!!! every 1m 47s I can test 7 more fuses!!! I would have tested all the fuses in the car before you finished reading the circuit diagram, installed pinch clips and setup the scope!!! This is what you taught us! :) LOL...

I can't pass up this opportunity to mention that my 07 Mercedes S550 4Matic (which is just about a base US model) has 39 modules. It does NOT drain the battery overnight, or really have a drain problem at all. Of course, Mercedes cheated slightly with this car. It has a huge group 49 battery in the trunk and all that battery does is power accessories and handle any slight drains. A smaller battery under the hood is for starting only. Still, I limped along for an entire year with a BAD trunk battery and there were no issues, even sitting for days in the cold.

Break out the thermal camera in the fuse box.

Looks a new model to be giving trouble. Isolating the networks has done the business. Very time consuming exercise but seems to be showing results. 3 amps is a bit over the top. Too troublesome for a dealer, especially with the extended timeframe involved. You'll soon be crowned 👑 of the parasitic draw division.

This one kinda reminded me of the Matrix movie, where Ivan (the terrible haha) is the Sentinal hunting for the Nebuchadnezzar in the network, but this time Ivan's gona find ya hahahaha

I had a customer complain that their Cadillac randomly drains its battery. I put an amp clamp on it, went to sleep fine, few mA draw. So I go back to my truck to get a new battery and hear a noise coming from the Cady. I've got the key out, doors locked, and the radio is playing.

Have to love all these vehicles that have loaded up to the gills options. Really just more chances and opportunities for things to go haywire. I wonder what else is in the high speed three can? Maybe it's that module under the headliner again?

Very intrigued to know what it is.

Ran across your video - Well done - I have 2016 MKX that is experience a parasitic draw as well - Thinking it is having the same issue - Telematic Control Module - I believe that module is 3G based and with the U.S. shutting down the 3G network in 2021 I am thinking that module is continually trying to connect to the network and never shutting down which would cause the drain - I know Lincoln offers a upgrade to the 4G work but is outrageously priced. Let me know thought if you think that could be it

The gift that keeps on taking.😢

In this scenario, would it have been more useful to hook up a graphic DMM or something like a 1 channel scope in series with the battery to catch that 3A spike event rather than a regular DMM? It seemed like luck that Ivan was able to catch the event as it happened on the DMM. With something graphing, even if you missed it you could look back in history and see the spike. In this case it seemed important to catch the 3A event since it gave a clue that a module was waking up and then going back to sleep. Otherwise you would only be chasing that constant 65mA draw. I'm looking forward to part 2 since it seems like there may be 2 separate issues. What is causing the 3A spike and then the "resting" 65mA draw.

Thank you sir. I have a mkx with draw issue.

4:53 the way you said that made me laugh

Looking over your shoulder, I see the XL-7, the Mystique, and the MPV. It sure does look like that Probe you featured for the Halloween Special is parked up there as well. Are you going to be doing work on it in the future? Would be interesting!

Great video. Awesome tutorial so far. 👍

HS3 has mostly audio and user interface devices, including instrument cluster and telemetrics. I'm gonna throw a wild guess at either the cd player or FDIM. lol

Telemetrics calling home I'd guess, who's home f * knows!!!

Thanks Ivan.🙂

Fascinating! You amaze me!

I had a Hyundai Sonata that had a parasitic draw. I had a board clamped over the door switch to check the inside fuses. Found nothing. Pulled the board and the switch was the draw. Replaced it. Happened again. Replaced the switch again, nothing fixed. Had to go to the dealer for a safety recall and asked them to look at it. They brought over a body repair guy. Turns out the door metal was so thing, a seat belt could dent the door so the switch couldn't reach the door. He quoted me a price to repair the door, but said it would happen again. Suggested inserting washers behind the door pillar and the switch. Ground out part of the washer to fit over the wires. Problem fixed. Unfortunately not mush farther into the fortune, it got slammed in the rear and got totalled.

Is it possible to narrow down the cause quicker by looking at the fuse boxes through an infrared camera? Surely the circuits that are drawing a lot of current will be obvious when contrasted with the sleeping circuits?

Interesting problem 🤔

Oh no, I hope that isn't the same Probe from Halloween I see in the background. Though, what are the chances it's a different one. If it is a different one, Ivan must have seen a business opportunity specializing in 25 year old Ford Probes that surprisingly no one else saw.

i say to myself 100 seconds and dammit Ivan part 2 again 😮lol😉

The one I’m working on is the hybrid MKZ It’s got a 600mA current draw. I’m good with electronics and stuff. I am just not familiar with a cars communication. All I know is it uses CAN. As far as high speed low speed etc I am lost why it would use different speed for communication

thank you professor ivan

Ivan: What is the hardware and software you use for the oscilloscope on your computer. Very cool! Love your videos! Keep it up!!!

We had a Lincoln in shop like that spent months here and at dealer no start no run . ECM coding was flawed .Ford dealer had it for 6 months! Factory could not figure out issue Owner gave shop car for bill . I cut CATS off and scrapped beautiful POS car 😂

I'm about 9 mins in and wondering, if ambient temp was cold enough, one couldn't watch the fuse box with an IR camera when the amps spiked up and get an idea which fuse was heating up then see which modules were powered on that fuse. Together with your scoping the different networks might narrow it down to a single, or very few, modules really quickly

You; Do you use a lab scope Dealer tech; I'm a automotive mechanic, not a scientist...

Would thermal camera at the fuse boxes lead to the culprit network?

Dammit Ivan!! I HATE it when we have to wait til Part X to see what happened, and why! (good troll ploy though, I hafta admit)

Now BOB's are obsolete...Ya gotta have a scope or you'll never find it.

This sounds like a motor trying to turn on, windshield wipers etc on/off.