This NEW Secret Button Could CHANGE Controllers FOREVER 

Predfiction: someone's gonna try making it a discrete mod where it's actually hidden as 1 of the 8 buttons (with a secret switch that swaps between regular and "antagonist" input).

This may be a bit reductive but if we're going to these sorts of lengths to give ourselves input advantages, we might as well just skip to the part where all FGs use simple inputs and get it over with.

I think the problem is that it's a single button doing more than one function, without even the need for a shift button. The fact that it can do up, down, left, and right automatically based on context might make it against the rules. If it was strictly an up button, then it would probably be within the rules since that would be a total of two up buttons, which is allowed. I think configuring a pad to work sorta like a button box is still the best way to go, however, despite being technically tourney legal, you wouldn't actually be able to use it in an offline tourney since it's a PC software only thing. For offline tourneys, especially on console, a button box is probably best.

Thats why Capcom added modern controls (motion or not) into the game.. People dont want to do moves normally anymore. Easier here, shortcuts there, advantage over advantage. Miss the old times.

I wouldn't mind just having it as an extra up input vs hitbox controllers, but if we continue modding controllers in this way, eventually, we might as well not have motions for specials attacks, as we would basically skipping every single one

honestly the antagonist button wouldn't be so much of a problem if it didn't allow for it to have multiple inputs. If it only could press up if you are holding down or only press forward while holding back it wouldn't be that strong. The reason the hitbox crossup stick is nice is, yes it combines the benefits of having a stick while also giving the benefits of a all button layout, but you still have to press a separate movement button to take full advantage of its potential...its not just a 1 button does everything kind of thing. The same goes for all button layout pads as well. You have to press each individual movement button to take full advantage of it. The antagonist button just does way to much for way too little which is why i don't see it becoming tourney legal anytime soon since it provides tons of potential inputs all on the same button.

From the sound of it, this can do things that proper SOCD cleaning prevents so I cannot imagine it being legal to use in any tournaments at all. It probably won't change controllers at all, I mean the Pizza Box didn't and that is some true innovation lol.

ordered some of these for some builds that i am doing, cant wait to try out ❤

How is having an antagonist button that effectively works as a macro that reverses your inputs and trivializes a lot of execution not cheating? SOCD cleaning is preprogrammed on hitboxes precisely to keep most of the usual execution requierements expected of a fighting game (e.g: back + forward = neutral, so you have to release your back input to do a sonic boom), and as you've mentioned, to use pad + joystick on a controller you need to master a very weird grip in order to take advantage of the game not having native SOCD. Mind you, I don't have a problem in programming an extra button as an additional Up input in games were Down + Up = Up in order to keep it on par with pad/hitbox for certain things, or even to make TK or 360 inputs more consistent, but instantly reversing your current input is pure nonsense and shouldn't be allowed for ranked or tournament play. If you can do Guile's [4]646 super by just holding back and tapping a button twice, at that point why not just program a macro button that does multiple input supers for you?

I love you NihonGOD gamer. Just a quick question. What is displaying the inputs on your stick at 5:24 I really want an app that could do that and it looks great!

IMO it should be allowed but only for the up command, because hitboxes and the like aren't allowed to have anything but neutral come out if left and right are held, so should be the same for this.

This will go over super well in the loving caring community of tournament players

If you allow this, you may as well allow fully programable macro buttons. Push the rules too much and too often and eventually only be allowed to use certain models of sticks/controllers.

It's great that you indicate the rules of the official games, it's a question I had and from what I see, my custom hibtox -crossup would be cancelled, but I have a question, if it cancels those keys, would it be allowed?

12:09 This point annuls peripherals such as the hitbox-crossup but it is unfair because the ps4 controller has more than 2 times the addresses, one group with the cross and the other with the left analog, we will have to wait for it to be approved

Im very excited to se what changes come to the FGC scene when T8, SF6 and MK12 are all in active play. The FGC is gonna boom and we will see some incredible content!

At that point, might as well just make the game simple to play. e.g Guile just needs to hold charge direction and you press the P for boom or K flash. Zangief just needs to press F + 3 P for SPD or F + 3 K for suplex, etc.

Remember in SF4 where people had extra buttons for Plinking and even extra button re-wired for Slinking? xD funny to think were now at the point where extra buttons for movement/directional inputs for advantages.

They called it the Antagnoist. They knew this button would be controversial when they were creating it 😂

Sweet this is what I needed. I can combine it with the Magenta fightstick!

Don't touch my arcadestick. It's perfect just how god imagined it. You can pry it off of my dead hands, until then - I'll be using an 8 button stock sf4 TE stick.

What is the hitbox style stick with the flashing lights at 00:04 ?

Hello ! Thank you for this review ! How does it works with other games like GG Strive and KOFXV ? Are we still in the optimisation ?

The smash box has a similar button, but it only flips left and right. It's for a very specific technique that is otherwise easy to do on a regular pad (turning around right before a jump so you can do a Bair while maintaining forward momentum). This should not be allowed. It's a macro. A context-sensitive macro.

at @2:10 where is the "down" input for the shoryuken? I only see back, forward, up... I didnt see down anywhere.

Seems like a cheat to me. I know fighting games are desperate to be more inaccessible to beginners, but this just makes things way too easy and means the real skill of becoming a fighting game pro is lost.

100% cheating for two reasons: 1. The board uses an ESP32 which is extremely easy to program for and flash firmware on, so you can't ever be 100% that it is running the firmware that the developers released. I can make software that does macros which are, indisputably, tournament illegal. 2. The inputs are deterministic, BUT they are not utilizing a reasonable or legal way for generating the output. The single button can generate two different signals depending on the state of the inputs beforehand. That means there is no static remapping available in-game or in-console. This breaks the EVO rules for controller inputs: "1. The controller may not activate multiple game inputs from a single input mechanism." EVO uses an analog example: "NOT OK. An analog push-button which sends either game input A or input B depending on how hard it is pressed." The Antagonist PCB doesn't use an analog signal, just a digital one.

Honestly the way it's installed feels more like a macro than a button input but I will say the space-bar like form-factor is a great idea. Thou at what point is it just a keyboard with a stick?

I want to see devs implement in game mitigations against shortcuts. Press two opposing cardinal directions? now you're dizzy.

I don't know if you say that deep in the video (gotta go, no time to watch fully), but that's already illegal for every single tournament, for every FG and I don't see that changing.

And I see the pad tech is coming into the light after 20 YEARS OF BEING A THING

All of this thing is going to end up with regulation controllers that must be used in tournament without any modifications, since people are abusing the controllers instead of getting better, so it sucks but there is not other way to stop this from becoming a hardware fight instead of a skill one.

After this video break down am super excited for this to become a norm

I use a mixbox cause I like wasd, and I need 2 for space and shift, can I set them to R3 and R3 just to have extra inputs for something like tekken, and so I can use my mixbox comfortably for platform fighters instead of a keyboard ( I use space for jump without tap jump and I use shift for sprint or dodge depending on the game)

I'm glad im only a spectator of fighting games, cause i can see this making some drama later down the line somewhere, if not soon.

All shortcuts need to be banned by default for every fighting game UNLESS the developers specifically allow certain things. I have no respect for anyone that uses shortcuts online.

Is funny how we all complain about the dev's balance teams but we keep bringing this "innovations" to bypass balance design. At this point they should just consider SF6 modern controls style as the main type of controls for balance , and ending up being a non-plataform smash bros clone.

just drill a 30mm button and bypass (jumper) to a designated button like mine its back or up so i can dash cancel.or side step cancel

can i ask what program do you use for that controller overlay at 0:49 ?

By the current standard there is no way it's legal. It adds functionality beyond the ps pad, ie on the pad if you want to take advantage of the synergy between analog and dpad inputs you still have to choose between pressing left or right, this is one button that does both, and always chooses the correct direction to boot. I don't think there is any gray area here, this thing is absolutely in violation on current tournament standards.

the dragon punch shortcut with the UP button doesn't work anymore on SF6, but it's true that Half circle or circle motions are just easier and more intuitive on stick.

Since almost no fighting game uses more than 6 buttons, why dont you just set two buttons already on the arcade stick to up and back? You get access to the SOCD tricks without having to rely on a macro button. This really doesnt seem to be about "leveling the playing field" and more about wanting a macro to make decisions for you.

might as well get rid of motion inputs cuz it seems that what some people want

These controllers should be banned in tournament play. Or, on the other hand, short cuts and lever-less controllers should be banned.

I've heard about this controller/button before, Arturo was demonstrating something like this at Next Level I think. It's beyond broken, one of the big issues with not policing the controllers enough. The rules need to be cut and dry on what's allowed or what's not allowed.

Just a thought try putting the button on the bottom right corner of your box and use your palm to push it I know it sounds funny but we use this trick on league of legends to level up an ability by palming control and pressing q w e or r it’s very natural

I have never see a controller inspection at a tournament

There’s no stoping it allow anything except strait up Macro, that is two or more commands by one button push.

What is the 2nd stick you showed off with the LED back lights?

Jonyfraze covered this when it first dropped. Interesting little add on!

imagine an entire arms race between hitbox and crossup just to make Guile even more busted XD

The thing that makes this illegal ATM is that down+up must= neutral same with f+b

I mean if they're allowing hitbox now at EVO... it's only just a matter of time. Change has always been a constant in this world hasn't it?

Everyone holding the dualshock wrong to get that input. In you claw grip the dpad with your left ring finger and thumb on joystick you can have more control of the attack buttons and prob feel more confortable the claw gripping with the attck and joystick

Miss your controller vids! Love your chill content and the quality of your vids

Awesome overview! Excited to try this myself soon

Competition is one thing, you gotta do what you gotta do to win. BUT, people tend to forget that the fighting game controls like Street Fighter's have been designed to give the player a 'kinetic' feel of being in the action by doing the motions and timings with the lever. By changing the controls and the controller you're essentially ruining your game experience. Unless you can't handle a lever or teally prefer something else. I am into fighting games largely because my ❤ love for the arcades, so the lever is essential for me.

Making these shortcuts gives advantage, people who use these will have the advantage over other players....

This is the kind of advantage that new players an even pro players. Will start using an basically become undefeated goodbye controller players an skill.

I don't even play Tekken and I'm interested in just seeing the advent of Korean Antagodashing that comes from this. On a side note, the FGC devs could take care of the controversy if they really wanted to. Program games to require a human level of directional transfer on the inputs. I do think having the button "option select" a direction for you like based on the opposite direction you're pushing, is going too far. But having it as any 1 set direction, really is in the vein of leveling the playing field and should be allowed if hitbox is allowed with the same priority methods.

What is the next step? Now people are allowed to program inputs based on another input. What is the next one? Creating a hot which fights for you?

Shortcut buttons like this, and like the lever less controllers might as well just use special style 😂

If the goal of the tournament is to find the best player, everyone should use the exact same input device...

can you do a review of the razer wolverine v2 pro? enjoying your contents!

So it is OK to do a 20 hit combos without missing/dropping by pressing 1 button now ?

This can't be legal anywhere. This is the "deliver my food & feed it to me" of sticks. 1-button SNK pretzel-motion super.

I dont know i guess its kinda neat in a way.....but more on the side for the weaker crowd who cant put off execution's that need a handicap to win....thats all the hitbox or mods like this are..

Well, in my opinion this anything that allows you to bypass the physical travel time of an arcade stick is illegal, why? because the developers could add a jump button or defense button by design, they could even add a customisable button layout that allows the player to put de defense and jump movements directly into any button, like MK, but they don't, because it is intended to have the stick and dpad physics as a game mechanic that makes some powerful moves more time consuming and harder to perform, they use this as a balance mechanic.

Looks like EVO will be banning leverless controllers that dont SOCD clean up+down=neutral

Great for beginners to learn fundamentals and situational awareness but I don't ever see it being tournament legal.

Leverless Sticks are 1 thing... But at this point one has to ask themself "Why even both booting up the game at this point" cuz this is LITERALLY just a Macro.

Capcom: hold my dynamic controls.

4:44 it means you’ll know who really came from the arcade era.

been using it for a year. Awesome piece of kit.

This is a cool piece of tech, but I'm hesitant on it's adoption with the new CPT rules about SOCD cleaning where Down + Up now has to = neutral.

Thanks for covering this...I happen to completely agree with you as far as making this tourney valid. There will always be growing pains and the disparity between the haves and have-nots will certainly be an issue, but an issue that will resolve with time. If the scene wants to innovate, it needs to endure the backlash and uproar. That said, I don't know how I'd feel if an unknown player rise through the ranks of the LCQ then takes the entire tournament and wins the million with a controller with an antagonist. It would almost always help if the pros jumped onboard with this at tournaments first.

Ah, yes! *TECHNOLOGY* or as some say *TECH*

Fighting games taking the “ronnie2K” route is disgusting. A button that shortcuts inputs defeat the whole purpose. It use to be a treat watching Daigo’s guile, SMUG’s Balrog because of their gifted sticksmanship. Not no more tho.

Went to local in orange county and there was like 15 stocks and 1 keyboard and 2 hitbox style controllers 🤷‍♂️

Bro,I think Capcom saw your video...

I'd like to see rules that are like "you can only use these types of controller design" Would avoid so many arguments

Why do fighting games need complex move inputs? - is a questions I rarely see come up when talking about the advantages of all-button-controllers, and mods like this one. I can understand a fondness for the 'days of the arcade' and for the feeling of mastering those inputs. But when new styles of controllers simply the game play, that suggests that some players would like simpler game play. That's something the games could do themselves. I know many games have modes that allow for this now. I just wondering about the whole scene. Why does Street Fighter Six still play so much like 2?

I don't think anyone should have the major advantages of SOCD inputs whether that means stricter controller checks, hand cameras during matches, and/or games designed to handle/lock out those types of inputs, e.g. mutually exclusive d-pad and analog activation via settings, and tighter limitations on how it processes "impossible" inputs. Something like that would require a regulating tournament standards committee or commission which would probably only further separate the FGC from its grass-roots origins. Just be on the look out for some scandals in the future involving actual cheat boxes, designed to discretely circumvent the rules, being used to win tournaments, especially now that Capcom, and possibly others, are jacking up the prize pools to some e-sports levels. Just because people are talented and skilled doesn't mean they won't cheat; just look at speedrunning or any sport. It is going to happen if it isn't already.

Capcom can solve the whole opposing cardinal direction by mandating neutral direction between up-down inputs (like they do for forward-back). This levels the playing field more between leverless and levered controllers but still keeps some of the leverless specialities like instant blocking. I don't know why more people aren't talking about it this way.

AMAZING VIDEO

I think you have just convinced a ton of people to pick up a Crossup!

Capcom incorporates easy mode and shortcuts for inputs: Players: oh no we don't need easier ways to play, we mod our controllers instead 😂. We need a new league for this players like the special Olympics. If understanding the game or practice to have good execution is to hard for you, your playing the wrong game.

Look at you, having so many fightsticks, your house must be cluttered, I can help you get rid of the ones you don't need... hehe

this is just flat out cheating. lets call a spade a spade.

Does the button change left/right depending on the direction your character is facing?

This is pretty sick

where did you get the addon from?

what i want to know is how if you use antagonist button on hitbox/mixbox instead

This is interesting since SF6 has the modern control scheme. The scheme is good for new players to dip their toes into the game, or just have friends play the game and not feel scared. It's a downside ultimately to the overall health of the community in my opinion since Fighting Games have always been about skill. Start removing those aspects and might as well start making games like Darksouls not allow you to die so it's more friendly to new players.

Ima use this in tekken with hecajiche

Switch to a leverless controller or live with the downsides of your other choice

I think tournaments should issue you a joy stick or game pad and play. No mods no leverless not antagonist mod. Skipping steps or actions is an advantage.

Not strictly gonna see idea of things like the antagonist or all button controllers but, I will never use this thing.

I‘m a simple guy… if a move takes D,DF,F+P to pull off then I‘m gonna press D,DF,F+P to do it… I don’t know maybe I‘m getting old

Capcom just forced U+D=N & L+R=N in SF6😂 leverless players are in shambles