This is spot-on information that most are not willing to divulge publicly. I built houses for 25 years in the DFW area and have been inspecting them for the past 27 years (20 of those as an ICC Residential Combination Inspector). Production builders, especially in Texas, are ripping off the public in a big way. It is refreshing to hear someone telling the truth for a change. Thank you!
Wowza. I'm having a KB Home built right now. Just yesterday I saw them put their sheathing product on the walls. It says "KB Home" on the product. It is thin. Not sure it's really cardboard. Maybe fiberglass, I'm not sure. But it is not rigid! I took photos and emailed the Project Manager of KB Home along with an explanation, stating that I expected either plywood or compressed wood (i.e. OSB) and was surprised to see their "flimsly" sheathing material. I asked, "How can the house stand up?" I got an angry reply saying that they have built hundreds and hundreds this way and that the structure is sound. Yowza. Looks like my "gut" reaction was right. This video completely bares out what I was thinking! And worse than that, the KB Home sheathing, itself, actually says that there are 3 grades of it: Light, Regular and Heavy Duty. Yet our 2 story house is a mix of light and regular. Ouch!
KB homes are not very well built. Good luck with that home. A friend of mine use to build foundations for them and they use to have contest on how fast they could get one built and quality wasn't on the menu. Don't feel bad, I purchased what many would consider to be a better builder and it's just as much junk as the KB home.
Great content Jordan. I’d love to see a video about how to flash penetrations like the bundle of cable wires or the bundle of power wires for the panel on the exterior. I have developed my own methods, but I rarely get to see how others deal with this detail. Thank you and keep up the good work!
The words "custom home" leaves a lot to be desired. In my area it literally means the homeowner picks out their choice of cabinets and counter tops. I was just having a conversation with an energy rater yesterday and he said that the majority of the builders all build the same way. It's really sad. The house I'm doing right now will likely end up under 1ACH. Builder X down the street hopefully will get under 5ACH (if it's even tested at all!)
Ya, that's how it is these days. They try to make you think you're getting a custom home but, it's really not. An actual custom home builder will allow you to pick/choose and change absolutely anything. Also why they charge 2-3 times as much!
🔥Must watch🔥This is crazy!!!! unbelievable to see some builders would do this to enrich themselves and take advantage of prospective home buyers not knowing the difference. And sheathing is only one piece of the puzzle but a very important one and if skipped can have some serious consequences for the home owner. OSB sheathing provides structural stability. Foam, cardboard and foil are NOT suitable as a replacement for structural strength. This practice severely decreases a structures integrity and will cause future issues for the home owner. I'm sad to see that some builders care more about there pocket books than the public they are serving. Excellent Video, thank you Jordan
I live in Texas and they used that card broad stuff on my house when it was built. I didn't know any better it was our first home. 15 years later I notice hell it sounds like I'm out doors when I'm in doors. I can hear everything out door. So that card broad offers no installation either.
Zip sheeting still has its issues, not necessarily with the product but with the install. It's not always the product that has the issue it's more about the installation than it is about the product (thank you for mentioning that) Thermoply meets building codes in almost all municipalities. Furthermore the pictures shown indicate PLF/PSI/PSF that is significant..and would have had a significant impact on Zip houses as well. The house that had the bottom plate ripped off the foundation was more an issue of the J bolts not functioning than the sheer strength of thrermoply and would have happened to a Zip 2.0 house as well. If you use the tested PLF shown @ 1:30 its saying the average PLF of tested values is 584. If a solid wall has a Coefficient of Drag (CD) of 2.0 (average car is .4) and to calculate PLF its .00256*v^2 per sq. ft.. Its simplistic agreed but videos like this are sensationalist in nature so its only fair. Doing the math 1 sq. ft will handle 25.6 PSF at 100mph. A 10x10 wall will would need to handle roughly 50mph wind before sheering at the tested rating. Since I live in Texas I know that 50mph winds aren't uncommon unfortunately. There are other structures that also apply sheer resistance to the framing that also affect its overall PLF rating. When you combine those other structures to the equation things change dramatically. Now i'm admittedly not an architect and I don't do building structural limits, but I am an engineer and I can say that the remarks in this video should be taken with a grain of salt and the value of Zip wasn't adequately explained in this video. I can also tell you with certainty that had the pictures shown through out this video happened on a Zip sheeting constructed house you would have had similar results. Unfortunately, I don't believe everything that is written in journals and news but that's part of being an engineer as I need to get it from multiple sources. What I do believe in is money, and I don't believe that any company is going to claim something to be substantially untrue (and a 34% reduction in published values is substantially untrue) especially in construction and not have it tested by an independent source (yes it can be tested to their standards vs. other standards and to be fair OSB vs. Thermo-ply results were not side by side on the manufacturers website). Net result, I don't trust the articles provided, the pictures provided, or the reasoning provided but I do believe in the conclusion. An OSB/ZIP house will have more structural rigidity to it than cardboard with a wax coating. To what extent, i'm not sure and frankly i'm not sure many people do. Here's an idea for your next video, take a set of blue prints to an architect and have them analyze it for wind loads using Thermoply, Zip, and OSB and present the results. For numbers on Thermoply you can use the "tested results" and the published results and the same goes for Zip and OSB. Lets see what it would take with real analysis by a qualified, certified individual who is willing to stake their reputation on math (include gust loads and sustained loads btw). Lastly, I guess I'd just ask more transparency be provided or at least reach out to the manufacturer with the articles and give them a chance to respond before coming off as the knowledge master. Also, 200 per sq.ft is nuts, especially in Texas.
All the homes up in norhern mn everything is 7/16 or 1/2 in osb wall sheathing with house wrap, nice to see the different products different areas of country use
Hi, I'm from Poland and it always amazed me why people in the US build their houses so fragile. As I undestand it's way cheaper to do so than using blocks (for example silicate) and mortar but what about places where You have strong winds and tornados - wouldn't it be better to build something that can whitstand a force of wind? Just being curious. And one more - how much of a difference in costs it is to buld masonry/concrete house and timber?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujita_scale Building tornado proof homes is very expensive. The strongest tornadoes we have can have wind speeds in excess of 300 miles per hour and have been known to lift well built brick homes off their foundation and roll them down the block and throw lumber fast enough to penetrate several inches of concrete. I have personally seen where a tornado ripped all the limbs and bark off of an oak tree. About 125 miles south of where I live, a tornado hit a 15 story building built with a steel girder frame and it put enough of a twist in the structure that the building had to be abandoned because it was no longer structurally safe to occupy. I do not know what people in Poland consider windy but in the Texas Panhandle we really do not notice the wind until it gets above 15 to 20 miles per hour and it only gets bothersome when it starts moving lose soil around.
You are so right! I am actually shocked that the code gods allow a home to be built out of cardboard! But they do...I'm watching them go up here in St. Louis...
Thanks for reminding me another reason not to move to Texas! My home in NJ built in 1995 and I found so many issues during construction because I was at site literally every day while my home was built. Don't get me started on the story where the workers pooped in my tub because they were too lazy to go to port-a-potty outside in front of my house, or the 6-pack of empty beer bottles inside the bay window framing.
Thank you for sharing this and making this video. This (the APA tests and article) are quite the black mark against DrJ Technical evaluation reports being equivalent to those of IAPMO or ICC-ES. It's important to help educate your local building official that they shouldn't accept these. The one good takeaway from the testing is it shows pretty darn clearly that you can develop buckling in shear walls (one of the reasons we bother nailing in the field at all).
You would think cardboard sheathing would be illegal? But no crush the buyer save the corporation? This is a long standing practice across the country. We build in obsolescence in everything costing trillions and paying taxes on these horrible practices forever!
My builder apparently used the OX-IS product which adds a rigid foam insulation layer to thermo-ply, and a reflective layer to the other side. Obviously not as good as OSB, but not much I can do now. My question - how much better is it than just bare thermo-ply? Where does it fall between thermo-ply and OSB?
I have used a zip board (advantech) flashing kit that's how it comes down here! Lovett they even give you a like a tall based epoxy caulk if you layer the outside of the boys completely with that after the tape and all the nail holes it is really an amazing product I mean I know that seems like a lot you know you won't you about a 18in mud knife to run that tall real good and any good mud man can or stucco man can whip it out real pretty! One of the few quality products that I've seen lately besides some good ol concrete sila epoxy legit stuff got to say that quality is that of the park
seen some production homes in north Houston area recently using what looked like thin cardboard sheathing... called Dryline TSX. no OSB no other WRB. seems it is supposedly a sheathing & WRB in one. looks like cheap junk that wont provide any shear stability or sound insulation and very suspect to any water that may penetrate. Any thought on Dryline TSX ?
@@rjtumble ah, well just driving by there's no real way to tell once the siding is up. But, if it's a new subdivision and houses are still going up by the same builder it's a fair bet they'll be using the same materials on all of them.
I like your content. I worked in construction about 15 years ago, though very limited on framing. I plan to act as my own general contractor when I build in the next three years. With all the updates in sheathing it seems to be a shame to nail through it to affix siding! What are best practices to affix cladding to a product like zip sheathing?
Jordan, how do you know that the Thermo-Ply isn't installed over regular 1/2" OSB? My daughter is building a home in the Austin area and that's what they are doing.
You mean your "daughter is getting a home built in the austin" area. You can't take credit for something that you did not do. Unless she is out there physically doing work on the home then she is not building it.
There's a lot of misinformation out there about Thermoply. Yes, it's cheaper. However, for the cost it is absolutely a reasonable choice for sheathing. If it's installed correctly it is a decent product for the cost.
You cannot apply this video to ALL NEW HOMES. Maybe for a budget above 500k this video makes sense but current market under 500k cannot build with OSB prices.
Jon that depends on where you live. In GA & AL 95% of homes are sheathed with OSB. LGI Homes and DR horton do not use thermo-ply on their starter homes. The prices on there starter homes in the southeast are around $260-$320K.
Random question. Sales person at one of the communities I was visiting was defending their use of batts for insulation, saying that spray foam has a tendency to "settle" over time, leaving a gap at the top that heating and cooling escapes through. Thoughts?
it doesn't make much sense. Spray foam has way more rigidity than insulation batts. Usually is compressible insulation like batts the one that ends up leaving gaps.
I think there was a miss communication. Cellulose settles in time and leaves gaps in houses. I know a big insulation company that stopped using it because they had so many problems. Foam is a great insulation , yet it has to dry properly or it will have a very nasty off gas. Fiberglass and mineral wool are good insulators but their R value is in a vacuum. Thus if there is an air leak it will not have the insulating value as advertised.
Hi Jason, thank you for your video. I have a question. Since this video was posted 3 years ago, have you had a change of heart regarding t-ply? Esp considering James Menefee’s comment? My husband and I are tired Dallas nurses and live in a remodeled 1986 manufactured home. We are getting older and hoping to buy new but all the new houses look more poorly built than our “trailer.” We have our eye on a DR Horton in North Dallas that we’ve saved to pay cash for. But I sure don’t want to purchase another home my husband will have to work on or loose our savings to a pile of junk. Thanks for your input.
This is coming from someone who doesn't know much about construction. Even if the sheathing isn't as robust as other types of sheathing, doesn't the fact that brick is laid out on the outside (Texas Home) and dry wall in the inside add support that is even stronger than the sheathing? At the end it all becomes one single unit that makes the home sturdy. I think its unfair to focus on the sheathing. alone as if that is all that is going on the house and ignoring the rest of the layers that will hold everything in place. Almost feels like some of these attacks on such material is due to tradition and not necessarily on facts and evidence. What is the purpose of sheathing and is it accomplishing what its designed to do or is it being judged for not doing what it is not designed to do?
Diego, that is a great question. I work in construction and never thought about the question that you asked. I just did some research and brick veener does increase the racking wall strength of a home. Also you can easily find pictures of homes that were sheathed with wood that a high wind event tore apart.
@@Geekmasterproduction Thank you for the reply. I feel that people look at an image and judge because they have biases. But logic and common sense would agree with your answer. Drywall is also very strong along with the rest of the installation of the siding. I have seen cases of homes with wood sheathing falling down do to strong wind but they do not create videos like this because it does not fit their narrative.
@@MrJramirex Yes I saw the image. That home was not complete and still under contraction. No one lives in a half done home, they live in a home with all layers in place that make a home. So you missed the point of everything I said. You can also find photos of homes with other material that were destroyed by strong wind. Again I a not defending one or the other, what I am saying is that maybe these opinion are based on tradition and not on facts.
New & dry zip is great, and when zip system fails due to water. Wind and rain, example high wind allows rain to reach areas it typically won't go, which is far more likely to happen, especially if brick is being used in conjunction to OSB, the water soften zip strength degrades to as useless as wet cardboard and becomes a mold trap for increased growth like any wood product, now on to a wind issue that cherry picked home is fairly rare occurrence, (minus tornado & hurricane areas) as much older homes in the 1970's & 80's didn't even use sheathing and they still stand with 2x4's , the "other" is not cardboard per some of the comments. (the composite seems should be taped as per the manufacture, that is a failure of the home builder) the composite & CC foam type panel is water proof and adds no food for mold when wet, and adds better thermal's. Water will bankrupt you faster than wind, I think OSB is better for reduced noise, but job sites are a mess and it only takes a small failure to lead to catastrophic slow seeping water damage, and lastly in TX, if you building with 2x4 its old, 2x6's are very common they add more strength and allow for higher R values.
Jordan, I have a question about black poly going behind sheathing around the basewall areas. Why do they do this is it necessary for stucco homes ? I've only seen this for brick homes and does it even do anything ?
It depends on how it's installed on whether it's effective. Stucco is a whole different category of risk than brick. you have a rain screen on a brick veneer, we're on stucco you have a big sponge stuck right up against your wall. Figuring out a way of creating a vapor impervious layer, or better yet a rainscreen between the wall and the stucco is crucial.
@@JordanSmithBuilds Thanks for the info. I've requested my builder to add Delta Dry Stucco and Stone over the WRB on my new build. He also added a 30 mil poly plastic behind the plywood sheathing on the first bottom 1 ft where the basewall meets concrete. It over hangs the concrete at the moment like it would for brick ledge but we're doing stucco which is why I ask the reason they are doing this. I personally don't see any benefit to it and wonder if it will have any effect on the drying capabilities in the future.
Maybe, you just leave yourself open to people calling you a copycat or something if you use someone else’s catch phrase. Stick to Overneath it’s your thing 👍🏻
Thermoply is a joke. Any builder that uses it should be humiliated in the town square. And even worse than that are the builders not using sheathing. They do add shear support but then wrap the house with low grade house wraps.
I disagree that it's click bait. I have a house that was built around 1990 with crappy cardboard-like sheathing. I could see daylight through finger sized holes in the unfinished garage where water got in and the shit just disintegrated. I wish I knew then what I know now...
Please don't make these vague clickbait type titles with a finger/arrow pointing in a general direction a thing going forward for this channel. I beg you.
I like your content. I worked in construction about 15 years ago, though very limited on framing. I plan to act as my own general contractor when I build in the next three years. With all the updates in sheathing it seems to be a shame to nail through it to affix siding! What are best practices to affix cladding to a product like zip sheathing?
Check out ZIP System R-Sheathing, has a 6.6 R Value before you even insulate! I built my house with regular zip 3 years ago. Didn’t know about the R Sheathing. I did overkill on my house. Uses zip wall, taped seams, and still wrapped it in Tyvek. So many good products nowadays.
