I experimented with more text on screen to see if it helps the audience follow along with either MBS or the results or which test we are on. What do you think? FYI: the chart of data is on the blog www.hownot2.com/post/rappel-ring Check out our new store! hownot2.store/
I love the perfect Mario theme beat at 5:40 Good job setting it up to make sure that exact sound happened! Nintendo will now be in touch through their lawyers.
It looks like the welded stainless broke early because the weld was "straightened" and kind of sheared it, causing it to split on the side and then break early. Pretty wild how well they do with no welds!
Titanium is strong while light weight, It absorb a lot of energy from impact. Also you can create beautiful color on it by burning it. Salt water do nothing on it. Steel is strong while hard(resist to wear down) and cheap Aluminium is light weight, not that strong but good enough
Those Fixe steel rings are impressive. Those are the same ones that are on the bottom horizontal ring of those vertical chain anchors. Next time I hear somebody grumble that the ring is not redundant, I’ll be sure and remind them of your testing. 👍
I think the flex of the weld was what was causing some of them to fail lower then others but still impressive, I would defiantly feel much safer with the forged ones.
@@Riiyan kind of interesting because welds are usually stronger than the base material. However "strength" can be measured in lots of different ways. Welding material also heat treats it which makes it more brittle, not exactly a property you want in something that is going to stretch.
Thanks so much for breaking one of my Anchor Rings, guys! That's something that I've never managed to do as my load cell is 'only' rated to 50kN, with an allowance that it can be taken to an absolute maximum of 75kN 😊💪
I’m a member of a U.S. Army Rescue team. I love watching your videos and sharing them with other Soldiers. A lot of your videos definitely help build confidence in our newer members. So thanks!
The welds on the rings would seem to be less likely to fail if they were welded in an oval shape (like chain links usually are). The one y'all tested with the weld on the anchor didn't hinge open like the ones with the weld on the anchor. The anchor tended to make it pull uniformly across the entire weld instead of stressing the inside edge first. If those rings were ovals, the weld would tend to pull on all parts of the weld. Worth testing?
You mean instead of a ring to have an oval? If so then then it would put the wear in only one spot and that was the whole point of using rings that would turn randomly and wear out in multiple spots. If you mean the weld bead being bigger, that might work but would surely mess with the uniformity of wear too.
@@dragoscoco2173 You're right. So the dilemma becomes: do you want a strong anchor? or an evenly wearing one? 🤔 A welded ring that will handle ~50kN is probably super good enough.
The welds on chain links are forge welded, where the link ends are heated and pressed together without any filler metal, so the weld conducts of only the base metal, the filler being provided by the displacement of the base, so it ends up being as strong as the link stock, and possibly a little harder due the rapid cooling; In every chain failure that i ever saw, the link stretched and failed on the side opposite the weld. Of course, this type of weld on climbing equipment is probably not practical, cz of the low production volume. Link chains are made in very high volumes by extremely expensive automated machinery.
I have never done anything to do with rappelling or anything related in any way, but RU-vid recomm3nded this to me and I found this super interesting. Thank you guys for amazing content
as an aero space welder im surpized that the welded stainless rings were not 100% penitration welds. Which is why it failed on the weld joint and no somewhere else on the ring. If it were 100% penitration and broke on the weld you would have seen solid metall all the way through and it looks like you could see the flats or the bevel of the parent ring matterial. Of couse it meets the kN rating that its designed for, but if they were to weld it with 100% penitration i bet it would contend with the forged rings.
There's been some commotion about the welded steel rings overhere, where cracks in the weld would mean sure death. So I was wondering what force a cracked ring would still support before it opens up. Could you cut a couple with a handsaw and test them please?
If I had to guess, it would be between 4-8kn and most likely 6kn. I think an open ring would still hold a rappel but I haven’t officially tested that before.
Great thoughts within the last part (and, the entire video as always). I have honestly never considered that there could be environmental impacts with some of the (arguably) small pieces of gear we leave on rock. I'm going to keep this in mind for the future, I don't often re-bolt / change out hardware myself; but it's really nice to know in any case. Perhaps I'll find something like that one day, and be all the wiser about why it may be harmful. Awesome stuff as always guys, you're constantly making our community a better place.
Tension vs shear loads in welds. Pretty obvious. Also: Buy once cry once. Spend the money for Ti or forged steel and fear not. Rolled AL is cheap but wears incredibly quickly.
as a person who has done tig welding, including screwing it up, I can confirm that in your case, it was NOT weld quality, but rather where you were pulling on it.
For anyone who doesn't really know what a kiloNewton is, the last ring broke at around 300lb, or your average obese person. The strongest ring however would have likely held around 22,000 lb, which is about the weight of a semi (without the trailer)
Or about 100kg. (actually about 981 Newton) A way for you guys with freedom units to visualise this is that a 1 litre coke bootle weigh almost exactly 1Kg. 1 Newton is the force it takes to make that coke bottle accelerate with 1m/s (a large step). Earth gravity/acceleration is about 9.81m/s, thus that coke bottle does 9.81 Newton (or about times 10 if you going to calculate it in your head). So yhe about 100 coke bottles, but more importantly now you should have to tools to grasp your own force quite easy in your head if you know your weight in kg/coke bottles 😊
This was really interesting, it does make a lot of sense they the forged stainless performs better than the welded ring but I was very surprised with how much better and how the position of the weld matters.
The problem with weldments is that you generally have to use a lower strength weld filler to prevent cracking and embrittlement as the weld cools. This results in a weaker spot, but, as you saw, the weld was still stronger than the required minimum. I use welded steel rings of 3/8" steel with complete confidence. Also, if the ends are bevelled instead of flat, you get a lap weld which is MUCH stronger than than a butt weld, cz the stress on the weld is a shear instead of a straight pull; this can make the weld actually as strong as the ring stock itself.
@@joelee2371 that would actually be interesting to bevel and fill the weld instead of butt weld. Like you mentioned I'm sure that substantially stronger. And yeah I'd have full confidence in a welded ring as long it it wasnt hollow
Interesting. Also very informative! Thank you for the info on why/when Titanium (I am guessing it is a lot more $) should be used, and the problems of Galvanized (Zinc coated) stuff left alone in nature.
The only time I would take a chance getting my fat ass down a mountain on a rope would be if the devil himself was chasing me and going down a rope is my only chance of getting away. Cool test though. This helps with my knowledge of my rigging on the winch on my tow truck. Stuff like this matters. Thanks guys. You got a sub and a like from me.
Hi, I’ve done a bunch of blacksmithing, so I know a bit about metals. I think the titanium is not getting hot because of the force, directly, but because of the deformation done by the force. That’s why the steel didn’t get as hot! It takes a lot of energy to move metal, and when it does move all of that goes into friction/heating
Indeed. If it stretched, say 3 cm @ 80 kN, that is 2.4 kJ. Pure Ti (these are almost certainly alloy, though) has heat capacity of about 0.5 J / g, so if the thing weighs about 100 g, that would increase its temperature by about 50 °C.
@@Puukiuuki a big big reason for the high temperatures is the thermal conductivity of Ti, its pretty much the lowest of all metals, it allows the heat to accumulate very close to the fracture/deformation zone and doesn't give it any surface area to radiate/convect away. The rings are almost definitely Titanium- 6 Aluminium- 4 Vanadium by the way. I would be shocked if they were anything else.
@@MrTheomossop The difference in thermal conductivity of steel and titanium is only a factor of 3, and since thermal capacity of steel is about double, and its density is more than double, the thermal diffusion "speed" should not be wildly different. But just because the heat capacity is about double, same energy put into same mass of steel and titanium will cause titanium to heat about double the amount. That and the large amount of stretch at high force (which generates more heat in the first place) should be mainly the reason for the markedly different temperatures.
What I wonder, is after seeing how much force some of the steel and titanium rings can handle. Why would you trust your life with aluminum? I don't even trust my aluminum boat in some cases on the water.
Welded 304ss breaks because weld seam is bending and it cracks it open from inside first. When weld seam is agains shackle the round shackle keeps the seam better in its original shape and is a lot stronger
Do you think that putting stress on them all at once is different then wear because the stress test makes it Heat up and wear cause micro fractures over time which makes it much more dangerous and hard to tell if it's safe. If it was stretched out then you would know for sure. I am just assuming and curious.
No PETZL Open Ring? The P28 model that has a bolt to secure the gate. These come on their Arborist harnesses and can be installed after a splice is completed. Only ring I've seen that is made like this. I'm always orienting the gates where no force is directly applied. Even though their advertised as multi directional.
Yeah, I've never trusted those aluminium rings, even for a single use. I've got qualifications for High Ropes Course construction, and we've broken kit on purpose just to see what it can take..... so I'd prefer to carry a couple of heavier bits of kit so I don't have to use a pre installed aluminium ring
Come on, you can clearly see that when the weld is between the shackles, the stretching (bending) of the ring makes the weld twist in a funny way, ripping it from one side trough to the other... And when the weld is placed behind the shackle, it acts as a mould, sitting the weld in a place that it won't be deformed as the rest of the ring does gets deformed... Thus making the weld fail on all it's sides at once. It's the same thing trying to cut one sheet of paper with both hands pulling both ends of the sheet to opposite sides... You can apply opposite twisting motion to both ends, splitting the paper from one edge towards the other... Or you can just grab both ends and pull apart with raw force, until the paper splits all at once. witch is easier and harder?
I was looking at engagement rings and somehow this was recommended; my immediate thought was this must be from Venice 1600’s and the Medici women would try to poison husbands with a ring lol
I'm not a climber, nor have I ever needed to rely on this sort of gea (just here because of the algorithm), but I do have a topical understanding of how not to die when hanging from stuff and that worn rolled ring absolutely flabbergasted me! Why on earth would anyone allow their gear to get to that point?!
The weld orientation does matter. In the first part you’re applying pure axial loading to the weld as the shackle keeps the weld orientation in place. In the second orientation you’re applying axial and bending loading to the weld, the bending loading occurs due to the deformation of the ring changing the weld orientation, this causes the weld to shear easier.
Was I at all interested in the topic of the video before clicking on it? No Will I ever need this information? Probably not Am I still gonna watch the whole thing? Most likely
Yh yh you wanna be that guy who leaves it till the end of the video... You leave me no choice than I'm gonna be that guy who skips to the end of the video! (Don't worry I still whatch the full vid but I skipped first and then came back lol)
A good weld shouldn’t break at the weld. It should break on either side of the weld. Because the weld itself is actually stronger than the steel when done properly. And a first year apprentice should be able to get full penetration.
Is there another variation on the linelock that uses a rectangular ring with a saddle-shaped pin/blocker ? Even if it's only rated for a hundred kilo (like the samples I used to have) it would be great for tying things down for the winter. -Years ago- in the 90's; I got a sample of one-piece *nylon* line locks ("for shipping and storage") that held two ends of lashing/strapping while they were tensioned. Each piece had pairs of integrated pins suspended by flexible hinges, shaped to nest *onto* a rectangular ring, instead *into*/through it. This avoided any leverage/collision concentrating force into deforming the ring while keeping the webbing flat. Having seen your demonstration, I think I may have been the only one who completely ignorant of how line-locks _normally_ work, read the instructions instead of 'clipping off the sprues' in the test group. (One in particular who ask me to show them how I'd fastened a set, got very angry and started shouting about how I'd done it 'dangerously wrong' and cut the hinges before becoming even more frustrated and hacking wildly at the 'incorrect' instruction-sheet when the demonstration loop didn't fail-apart under-load as he'd expected.) When I tried to get more, the (intermediary) for the company that made them told me that because I was the only one who had _any_ measure of success that didn't work for the MFG; no more would be available.
Pulling on the weld was the reason why it broke at 89kN. Pulling against the weld was why the other 2 broke around 50kN +/- . Of those 3 rings, the 2 50kN +/- rings that broke while being pulled against the weld showed deflection before folding inward at the weld. The 89kN ring showed no deflection and simply stretched until it pulled apart the weld.
So at 7:50 I think what we are seeing is a non-penetrating weld on a tongue and grove style closing. The maker put a slit in one end of the rod, ground the other end into a wedge shape, then welded along the circumference. I believe you can clearly see the slit in the middle through the opening in the center of the welded lighter colored zone. I believe you can also see the remains of the wedge tip barely maintaining weld on the right hand top although the straightness of the leading edge has been badly warped as it was pulled out and apart. I'd like to know because metallurgy is fun and exciting.
VIDEO IDEA: you have to get slabs of different types of rock and figure out their breaking points. I can trust safety rates equipment but what about various types of rock? Doesn’t matter how well the gear holds up if the fracture the rock Or break off.
I don't need or use and anchor ring and I have no idea why I'm watching this or how it got recommended for me, I will say this watching a machine snap different types of metals and the process was super awesome watching, I enjoyed this video. 😀
Depends on they alloy formulation and heat treatment of the titanium. It's a strong metal to begin with, but I've seen some that was hard enough to use as a scriber.
@@joelee2371 thats my experience as well (titanium being hard). Super lightweight but prone to cracking, say as a Ti bike frame is kind of horrible as your welds will fail (on average) before a steel frame’s welds will.
While hiking with a church youth group 20 years ago The couple that was leading the group were very into climbing, even taking us climbing indoors... I borrowed their equipment to do a presentation for English class. But one time on an outdoor hike they were able to point out Chains and carabiners bolted to the rock faces for various routes alond our hike.. What stands out is how well They were hidden as to not Be seen.. They were all spray painted the same color as the rock and blended in perfectly. Along our hike there was even a step made of concrete to make a particularly difficult part easy... This was not made by the BLM as I suspected, Rather I was told it was done by climbers Who actually hiked up with concrete and water And made that step for themselves and everyone else.. For the last 20 years I've known to appreciate The time climbers put into managing their routes so that most will never know or notice the chains on the rock face.. it's still very cool to see them when I do, which isnt often..
