As a famous 96 Corolla ad from craigslist once said "this car will outlast you and your children. You could throw it off the golden gate, fish it back up and it'll start"
Group C was getting as big as F1 in the late 80's. That's why Bernie Ecclestone killed it by convincing the FIA to require the cars use F1 engines. Him worked with Big Bill France in the early 90's to convince Tony George to create the split and gut IndyCar racing in 95. Bernie was like a hyper-capable Bond Villain who would have killed 007, chopped the body up just to make sure, and then took over the world.
Similar story about Group B of rally in 80's, when it was become more popular than F1 - FIA just banned it with "accidents" as a reason. That's why I don't like F1 and FIA itself, too many excellent motorsports segments was ruined because of money and greed.
I think Balestre was more at fault here. After the WRC crashes of 1986 he wanted to kill Group B because he was mad at how the manufacturers played him when Group B was introduced in the first place, never mentioning power outputs way north of 500 hp. With Audi out, Lancia happy to adopt to Group A as they had lost two drivers and an unbeatable Group A car and Ford not really knowing what they wanted, Peugeot was the only manufacturer Balestre had to convince in order to kill both Group B and the successor Group S. So he promised them a Le Mans win and fulfilled is promise, killing off Group C in this process. Bernie basically just wanted to use the World Sportscar Championship for making money, asking huge F1 like entrance fees, doing his part in the process to destroy Group C. But the main reason was the Balestre-Peugeot deal of 1986.
Bernie helped put the death nail but tbf, Group C and Group B were dancing with the Devil towards the end. It was becoming expensive and hard to compete in. It was only a matter of time before tyrants like Bernie got involved and saw to the series decimation.
It has to do with power of the cars, the average speeds they run on the course, along with other regulations I have no idea about 😂 Group B is my favorite, and it gave rise to some amazing road car technology.
Group C machines were the pinnacle of automotive performance. There won't ever be anything stronger, faster, and scarier than those widowmakers from the 80's. From the Porsche 956 all the way to the Nissan R92CP, salute to the engineers who designed those awesome rockets on wheels
I mean well technically the the last LMp1 hybrid were that 1 guy getting a time of 3.14 at du mans in 2016 or 2017 it was an absolutely absurd quick time about 10 seconds faster as well than the fastest group C car around du mans... But I get your point! Yes they were absolutely insane and you can't but love that 😁
@@mathiasmorell5094 thank you very much for your kind, elaborated and senseful message. Yes, of course the new generations are much faster (the 919E but also the TOYOTA Gazoo Racing GR010, and others), as you rightfully said, but my heart and spirit get easily swayed when it comes to the Group C... 😂 I tend to think, however, that their performance could be very close to the recent models, due to their extremely low weight and extremely high power output, although their chassis couldn't allow the same level of grip/cornering. Let's say that they're equal on the paper. 😝
@@E1N9A8N0DA it's a lot of things combined, some of them had to little downforce others had to much... The brakes back then wasn't anything like today they would have to break early compared to today... Also todays models are so advanced built that you could basically floor them all time without problems... Again those Group C cars was anything but simple out of every single corner did the drivers have to throttle control carefully or the wheels would start spinning... In theory yes I do actual think they are close to todays racers... But it's just impossible to reach that cars full speeds unlike today... You could say in theory the chance that has happened over past 30 years isn't faster cars it's actually the ability to control the speed the older cars have and that way make them faster.
@@mathiasmorell5094 clearly. Having to handle a car that has a 3-digit weight, equipped with gums that can't manage what they get in the face, aeronautical speeds on straight lines, no assisted/active steering, and more importantly : NO-F*****G-ABS/driving aid whatsoever, does make a difference. You just have to watch the epic qualification run performed by Mark Blundell at Le Mans '90 on the Nissan R90CK (900 kg, 1000+ BHP). The cockpit camera showed slightly more physical activity than nowadays... 😳 Or how to put your life on the line at every single maneuver. #⚠️
Group C has always been my favorite motorsport discipline. I was never around during its time, but Gran Turismo helped shape my enthusiasm for the spaceship-wedge cars that roared for 24 hours.
Totally feel you there. I remember the first time I tried one of the license tests where we had to drive a R92CP down La Sarthe's straight... That was the moment I fell in love with these prototypes
@@lucasmendonca3841 me when i found what is minolta 88c-v looks like i was really surprised on how really fast it is, after playing the game i found the toyota 7 and that became my fav car and because of toyota 7 group c is my fav car now
Dude that was a textbook run down on a car! Well done.... especially with letting us take in the wonderful V10 note! It's music to every humans ears hearing a V10 on decel
The Brabham "fancar" F1 is also a machine that produced enough downforce to kill its driver at the first corner ^^ There were some serious craziness happening in racing back in these day. This is what legends are made of.
well it did create a lot of down force but not enough to kill the driver lmao thats entirely untrue, the sf-75 created way more downforce than the brahbam fan car and that didnt even hit enough gs to get close to that. yes its a legend but thats such a weird thing to just make up.
@@finneganmueller9775 The Jaguar XJR-9 had so much horsepower that they could never go full throttle for fear of making the earth spin in the opposite direction. True story.
@@VisioRacer you should do a video..."IF YOU GET THE DATA" TOP 15 RACE CARS WITH MOST DOWNFORCE AND TECH SPECS...FROM ALL CLASSES.. EXAMPLE: GT CLASS, GROUP C, F1, PROTOTYPES, TO UNRESTRICTED VERSION OF CARS ( LIKE 919 EVO TRIBUTE WAS and PIKES PEAK UNLIMETED CLASS LIKE VW ID R WAS) 😁😁😁
Group Cs really were something else. I do think the WEC gets a lot right with rules and BoP now though. I think the golden age of prototype racing may be over, in part due to the technology it created, but the series is still the greatest test of man & machine.
No, they created a car with a less than optimally designed driver's seat. If the seat was designed correctly, the drivers would not be injured. Aircraft ejector seats surpass the G-forces any car can generate without breaking bones in the occupant
Já věděl že budeš ze z Čech a nebo Slovenska, už jen podle toho intra :D. Okamžitě dávám odběr, protože takhle dobrej kanál, a ještě našich braťa Slovakov, :). Tím taky samozřejmě zdravím na Slovensko! ;D
How were Toyota"s recent wins "rightfully earned" without any other manufacturer and BoPs in their favor, recent years have been some of the bleakest in terms of competition for the outright wind of the race.
@@nf1369 audi and peugeot literally raced eachother around their winstreaks, porsche had their most recent one against audi and toyota, bentley had one of if not the most successful lmp1 car of all time racing them the year they won, granted they had all of the "mr le mans" drivers, peugeots group c wins were during the time of the car in the video. The 962 won against jaguar and nissan factory teams. It's not just that toyota has no competition, there's not even any real manufactures competing other than them, they couldn't win le mans until porsche and audi pulled out, and now not only are they the only factory team, but bop is in their favour too.
@@hondamanvtec2894 they set records before but never won, toyota has no clue how to design a racecar like the germans, french, or brits when it's factory team on factory team
@@TurdInternational and a lot of AE86 been swapped into blactop. So, maybe, showing AE86 & AE 111 would've been the best option. 86 attracts attention, 111 shows exact owner of the 5-valved 4ag.
I want to see how the NASCAR 5.8L V8 performs at LeMans. A NASCAR V8 produces 650-900+ HP, could be "bigger" (ie. 6.6L) still, and an aluminum variant could be built, reducing the weight closer to the RV10 engine. I'd love to see NASCAR style V8's in open-wheel or "endurance" style cars vs. 3.5L V10's, just imagine the sounds.
@@RichardCEditing I knew about Le Mans. I hope NASCAR installs carbon fiber brakes, removes the weight ballast, and uses the biggest fuel tank allowed. I just wonder which engine package they'll use, as the ~900 HP variant is only good for maybe one 500 mile race, while the ~650 HP option can race for over a long season. Cup cars could potentially go 225+ MPH along the straight.
It won't be an exact spec NASCAR, but it will be cool to see what HMS will bring to the table... No matter how you look at it, it's gonna fun to watch...
I remember from somewhere that i think Porsche's 956 or 962 also could injure it's driver under some circumstances. Think there is a video of someone grunting while driving it.
Maybe in a crash only. Those factory Porsche aluminium sheet monococques folded and flexed like paper. Horrible for safety and performance. Along with that hole in the front end that produced no downforce, the chassis is the only weak point of the 962.
I once played a game, Project CARS 2, it's got a believable career mode for Group C cars, I used a shift stick and manual clutch for the entire career, I thought the car would be slow since it's old cars and is a bit hunky, but instead they run very fast and turn as fast too, even in game, the sensation is beyond words.
Today I've been gifted with a ticket for the 24h My heart can't wait to see and hear those epic monsters on that track!!! Those ol' ones are even crazier :O
@@longtailgt This year I've been VEEEERY lucky, maybe next year I'll win the Gold pass with even the porsche + helicopter rides 🤣🤣🤣 I did bring 3 HW to the track and I took some pics, a Wec Photographer took some pics of me taking pics...too ☠
Extremely speed needs down force though of GT cars. But to be honest Toyota cars were decent but Mazda did well balanced down force and cornering ability.
1:22 I wouldn't say rightfully, just de facto because no other factory team has been racing for the last 5 years, that and the aco is incredibly biased towards making bop in their favour
At the same time Toyota was developing the Eagle MkIII with Gurney’s All American Racers for use in IMSA competition stateside… Monster car with monster aero. Max kit was 10,000lbs at 200hp (at least). Oh and about 1100hp in qualifying from its turbo 4. What a crazy time for sports car racing.
Toyota literally started winning le mans once porsche retired their lmp1 program, they were also the only car manufacturar left and their car had like 200 hp more then the private lmp1/2 teams . Them winning these last few years really isnt that impressive with that in mind
Huh? If it wasn't for the fact that Toyota's last lmp1 model was so insane it in 2016 did a time in 3.14 aka almost 3 seconds faster than the fastest lap recorded, which wasn't a porche but actually the Peugeot from 10-12 time area... Well yes then you are right it wouldn't be impressive, also the 2 first year they won. Was their still car makers there, however, you are correct the last what is it 3 or something Le Mans has just been Toyota running against 4-5 other cars without competition
@@mathiasmorell5094 Toyota never a beat a same class car at Le Mans. They also never beat other proper factory team. Their wins came against Rebellions, Alpine and Glickenhaus.
@@TheMashinac Porche would lost in 2018-2019 same with Audi look at the amount of laps they finished there races with in 2017 it was only 367 laps the Toyota Gazoo racing had 388 laps in 2018 it had 385 in 2019 and in 2017 it had a lap time which was an insanely 5 second faster than the porches... However, the 2017 year model did Toyota end up loosing but actually only doing to engine failure which is what they had fixed during the next couple years... The fact Porche quit before they started to loose is also kinda of a week move. But next year is going to be great!! They are almost all coming back and even Ferrari joins in as well
@@mathiasmorell5094 Coulda, woulda shoulda. The fact remains, germans won those races and Toyota never beat them at Le Mans in those 6 years. And still, they never beat a same class at Le Mans, only privateers and tarted up lpm2s. They practically raced themselves for the win. Those 5sec per lap never happened and can never happen in modern Bop racing. It would be hard sandbagging to hide such pace advantage and ACO would slap them hard for cheating. Porsche and Audi could afford to quit, they've won it multiple times. How do you know they wouldnt be beating Toyota if they stayed? Could it be that Toyota stayed because they saw the opportunity to win it when the big scary germans left? Toyota quit F1 after throwing tons of money at it without anything to show for, now that's a weak move. Yes, i'm looking forward to a proper prototype field next year as well, should be a cracker if they balance them out properly.
please do way more race cars, like 12000hp top fuel dragsters or the new hypercar class of endurance racing and also cover more modifications, stroking, cam swapping, lighter crank, forged/billet internals, boosting, nitrous, wheels, tires, everything! motorsport/tuning is my religion, petrol runs through my veins, i breath burnt race gas and my language is the melody of a beautiful masterpiece of a naturally aspirated v12 engine sinphony. and all that even after an life changing car accident, since when im nearly unable and most of the times scared of driving, because of my countless injuries and severe pain...
Although this series of cars effectively killed off Group C, they are in my opinion some of the most incredible race machinery ever. A 3.5 litre F1 style engine that would last 24 hours. With more downforce and grip than most modern formula one cars. Truly insane. I saw the 905’s at Le Mans for the last year of these cars (‘93) and they sounded and looked incredible. Probably only surpassed by the last generation of the LMP-H cars. Which looked like they were on rails too! The one car that would’ve probably beaten them all was the Mercedes C292. A V12 high downforce monster. It never raced as Group C collapsed but look it up if you want to see a stunning race machine.
Just one thing- where did you see that the TS010's V10 had 5 valves per cylinder? According to everything I see online, the RV10 had 40 valves, ie it had 4 valves per cylinder.
Some sources mention the 5V setup, some four valve. Even various Toyota webs are not consistent about that, but an old TV program where the young Andy Wallace appears mentioned the 50V in total, too.
Just did a quick search. According to the Toyota UK website including a PDF file its a 5 valve per cylinder engine. The only thing I didn't find is if Yamaha helped them develop it. Yamaha was experimenting with 5 valve heads at that time.
Awesome. I love the Mazda 787B too. I had no idea about the bone crushing. Wild. I know thats why many of us love these cars. They have all this raw power. Which can kill a man, and you need to know how to tame it. What boy or man does not think thats beyond awesome?
"Welcome to the Salty Spitoon. How tough are ya?" "How tough am I? I drove so fast I broke my ribs." "Yeah, so?" "I hid it so I could race Sebring shortly after." "Right this way, sorry to keep you waiting."
The change in engine displacement was designed to get manufacturers out of endurance and into F1 not the other way round. It's the reason both Merc and Peugeot switched their main focus to F1
I was extremely surprised that I found out this car actually won 3 races. Even though this car *did* race in a domestic series, it still sort of surprised me considering the Toyota IMSA GTP cars were far more successful in the IMSA GT series than the actual Group C Toyotas in the JSPC.
Wow. The Physics Here Seem Absolutely Insane. Pure Mathematics Principles in Aerodynamic Downforce, Drag Coefficiency, Drag Reduction, Center of Mass, Center of Gravity, Wind Ford Reduction, Weight Distribution and Hydrostatics.
ONLY after Porsche LEFT Fia-WEC did Toyota win Le Mans...since 2018, it has no real competitor since then. Porsche will return, and we'll see how this plays out. BOTH are fantastic products however.
