Funny enough, dota2 also uses the same mechanic as well: while playing naga, Lycan, or any other unit/ilu hero, the one that is idle is prioritised for the next action. Of course, this rarely is replicatelble because most units in dota don't have active spells, or you can only have one of them. Chen and Book of the Dead are how I understood this.
I know that for meepo they will only throw the net for the first one in a control group/selection that doesn't have it on cool down but I've never noticed a movement command to change that to which ever one is idle. Though maybe it's just a skill issue for my smooth brain.
@Bagginsess meepo is an exception funny enough: his clones are considered separate heroes. So, each meepo is a separate unit and not the same. Much like Arc Warden tempest double.
While it makes sense mechanically, I feel like it makes things too janky. I'm trying to think of any time I wouldn't want to override an old command with a new one if it's more efficient... Maybe selecting every peon in your base and just asking one of them to make a building, then the one who isn't busy can do it? I don't know.
Let's say you have 6 dragonhawk riders. You issue a command to Shackle a unit, and one starts moving towards an enemy to do so. You issue another command to Shackle a unit, instead of the one that is moving towards the enemy to shackle them canceling that order and replacing it with a new order to shackle the other unit, you get a dragonhawk with a move action or a wait action to do so.
@@kevingriffith6011 no, in sc2 it works literally exactly the same way. The only difference is that move command overriden completely. In sc2 everyone (who isn't completely low elo like below masters) is aware of how it works because this is a crucial mechanic to understand and that you need. The big difference in sc2 is because it is significantly higher pace so the odds of you forgetting to move 4 ravagers you used to throw biles to are virtually zero
@@Kryptnyt that's a good example. I guess the real issue is that it sort of prioritizes move commands over other commands just because of the order you gave the commands in. Whereas with actual tactical commands it makes sense to not override them, but movement - you're probably just going to end up clicking it 4 more times anyway.
i think most map makers are aware of this, for me this was common knowledge since 2006 but i never played any ladder or interacted with people who do, so maybe thats just knowledge that never escaped the mak maker circle o.o edit: before someone tries to say something like "yeah yeah ofc you did but somehow it magically never was heard somewhere else" -> there is a condition in wc3 to check if a unit has still an active order or has not (this is very useful when making custom hero abilities or alternate building systems), when experimenting with this condition you come across this mechanic pretty easily, thats how we found out.
I knew a lot of random obscure mechanics in WC3 due to map editor too, even though I only played dota. e.g It's common knowledge that WC3 original spells are hardcoded and some atributes can't be changed. Like a lot of custom abilties are just Storm Bolts or Chain Lightning, and that's why Zeus and Luna have mini-stuns on their nukes. If I remember correctly, the minimum stun duration on storm bolt was 0.25 seconds, and if you try to set the stun duration on it to 0 it just becomes permanent lol
@@Sapreme actually you can set the duration to 0.001 second, but before the editor got reworked with reforged you could only set it to 0.01 without add ons. seting it to 0 would result in a permanent stun that is correct. but i have to say here that dota is a really old map so they used a lot of really old tech's back then. since 2010 or so custom abilities usually all used "channel" as the base ability because you could modify it to everything you need without it having any added effects. with the implementation if the reforged editor we got access to stuff in GUI that before was only accessable if you knew how to code in vJass liek changing integer/real/string variables in spells during the game. while reforged broke most maps it added a lot of cool things for map makers. its just sad that its broken and instead of enjoying those features you have to use 80% of your time an deffort working around broken things. thats why i quit map making shortly after reforged release. but for sure you get a LOT of knowledge if you were into map making. sadly i always lacked the skill to use that knowledge in melee games xD
So the game tries to find a way to give a command without overriding commands that are not yet complete, if possible. Interesting, if not a bit annoying at the same time.
I like it, that way you can queue extra actions on top of shift actions and if you hold ctrl when in group select with multiple unit types you can combine it and just queue everything up in advance. Then again I play against the AI for fun.
I wonder which one is faster and/or easier, click stop -> use spell -> move; or going : click 1 moving unit -> use spell -> re-move that unit. Id assume the 2nd one dont delay your troops as much, but probably harder to execute in the heat of battle and if its worth that slight extra speed for the troops
@@GatsuKS Yes, it's about making units do a chain of actions.. How is that hard to understand? ^^' Of course, the unit who already did everything else will be the one doing the last action ^^' I don't mean to be an asshole here, it's just SO SIMPLE xD I'm an idiot, and I understood that 20 years ago when I was a pre-teen ^^'
@@Audon4150 I agree, understanding this so easily doesn't make us especially smart in general, it's just funny how the brain works. Person A catches on something easily while person B struggles then in a different situation that requires a different mindset it's the opposite.
WC3, daddy of DotA and subsequently League of Legends. WoW was literally a side-project extra campaign that evolved into one of the longest standing MMOs of the last 20 years. Blizzard Entertainment was just different
We need more of these deep machanics videos ! I’d love to see one with the machanics of the peasants on lumber, when they come back to work after milicia
Not really, spells are the only action that gets selectively queued. All other actions are always an override of the current one for all selected units. Cannibalize is a spell.
its frustrating for those of us that have known about this since shift clicking became a thing who still couldnt use them as effectively as grub here was before he discovered this :P
It does make sense, you give them a chain of orders, so the proximity checked only for the witch doctor who's on that step of the journey. In this case the witchdoctor who completese task #1 first will be the first to start task #2.
I used to play a lot of RTS games back in the day(it was all the rage)and when I played Warcraft 3 it immediately felt like on a whole another level and I didn't exactly understand why but now I do
Jesus. It seems so simple, but only once it's explained. Of course in game you're always looking for the closest one to cast. Now we understand exactly why that isn't always the case. Knowledge is power 😀
i used to do wonky builds as a kid one of which was orc with wolf riders, this would happen a lot trying to micro wolf riders kiting away from the enemy, somewhere i intuitively learned that this is what was happening still it kept happening because i was frenetically trying to micro just clicking very close by just to move a little. but i saw it didn't happen if i was clicking on the minimap and full retreating just the further most back would cast a net, so just assumed that while running it would do as i said if any had stopped it would be wonky. but kid me quickly forgot as i thought it was special to wolf riders as it didn't really happen with the other units i was using when i was playing and i really didn't like using spell casters, too much micro, so never made the complete connection.
Thats interesting. I wonder if theres a hidden command-time calculation, that when you click move on far point (i assume thats why u use the minimap) it thinks "the first one to get idle wont get here any time sooner, lets try to find a unit that can cast the spell (with proximity filter/prioritization)".
@@Crustee0 i just used to click the map to retreat home instead of map scrolling because it was so much more of a hassle to do, i was not a good player. it was just what was shown in the video, if they are all walking then the closest one would go do it, if you have them all selected and one is idle/stopped then that one will go do it walking through the entire group to get there.
Are you shift commanding the spell after moving the five witch doctor's in that example? That would certainly force the units to finish the previous command before casting the spell. If you are try not shift commanding the spell
I wonder if this was fixed in Starcraft 2, and if not, if it will be fixed in Stormgate? Or do you think it should stay? I'm not good enough to judge lol.
So, you control 5 units, and expect them to function as a single unit...and after years of doing this, you have finally learned that they are 5 different units.
Protip: Any time you catch yourself saying, "So..." and then vomiting up a reinterpretation of what was said, you're probably a fool that has wasted your time twisting something into a strawman to make it easier for you to judge or to enhance your petty feelings of righteousness or superiority. It's pathetic and childish. Knock it off.
There are very few toxic people in the WC3 community. It's better to have a few million players worldwide in a competitive and mature atmosphere than a billion people on a pay to win modern game IMHO.
