Thompson Submachine Gun - In The Movies 

Actually the 1934 NFA was spurred on by the 1930s Depression Era criminal gangs that roved through the mid-west and not that of the 1920s Chicago or New York City organized crime gangster- whose main victims were other gangsters and not ordinary American citizens. The Press and general public took glee in reading about city gangster knocking one another off, but when the 1930s gangsters started to affect everyday Americans, fear took hold and the 1934 NFA was passed as a result. Unfortunately, the Hollywood Studios did not lobby Congress for an exemption for their movie studio arsenals for an NFA Act exemption, too many US Film companies were left with either a limited supply of old NFA firearms or US made weapons that had to be faked to look. like other types of automatic weapons.

I read somewhere that Capone's hoods never actually owned any Thompsons - they hired them from a sporting gunsmith's in Chicago and returned them when finished with!

Another thing to consider is, what submachine guns were around in the 1920s? Off the top of my head, all I can come up with is the Thompson, and the Bergmann MP-18.

@@jackstecker5796 The guns nobody used in bf1 lol

It's almost as though gun laws don't stop criminals from acquiring guns.

The Sex Off....the Gun Offender shuffle

In early WWII the British called Thompsons "gangster guns" and resisted buying them because of that association (and because they were freaking expensive). Somehow they got over their resistance when we offered them as lend-lease items. Eventually they made Stens at less than a tenth the cost of a Thompson, and used those as well as giving oodles of Stens away to various resistance groups.

Kinda like the Italians in Ww2 Were bad Jk were good

@@exudeku I’m grateful someone beat me to it

@@WalkaCrookedLine I had forgotten about the 'gangster guns' reference. Thanks. Interestingly when Trenchard wanted to have bullet proof glass used to protect the fighter pilots he was initially opposed on the grounds of costs. His reply was that if American gangster can have it then to could his pilots. They got it.

I just shot a model 1928 about a month ago! I’ve never had so much fun shooting any other gun my entire life😂

Forgotten Weapons did a live firing test of the original M1921 at 900 RPM versus M1928 at 650-700 RPM. He found the faster 900 RPM was more controllable for long burst. I have never had the opportunity myself. Later

I discovered the same thing. Interesting

For my birthday in 2018, I went to a gun range in Las Vegas where one could rent guns to fire. I did the "Saving Private Ryan" package that included : Springfield M-1903A3, M1 Carbine, M-1918A2 BAR, Colt M1911, M1 Garand, and Thompson M1A1. I am not a gun owner, but have with friends and family fired 22s, hunting rifles, shotguns, and pistols probably a dozen times before that birthday. The BAR was nice, but I wouldn't want to carry it. The Garand was sweet, the 1911 great. I had ordered extra clips for both the 1911 and the Thompson. The package came with two clips for each gun, but for the 1911 and Thompson I had a total of five clips. So last gun was the Thompson. As the safety instructor was showing me how to load the clip, another customer went into the stall next to me with two machine guns he had rented. I started firing, (had to fire from the shoulder, no hip shooting). I ended up firing in two to four bullet bursts _Bap Bap Bap_. Half way through the first clip my neighbor fires his first clip _BRRRRRT!_ Full auto. I finish my 1st clip, reload under the instructor's attention. Fire in bursts again. Just felt right. _Bap Bap Bap Bap_ Neighbor goes _BRRRRT!_ again, and again. I reload, fire again, just enjoying the feel. Reload the third clip, _BRRRRT!_ Before I fire, I hear the guy yell enough for me to hear, "That was awesome!" and then he and his instructor leave. I fire the Thompson, reload and repeat. Load, aim at the target, _Bap Bap Bap_ My instructor lightly touches my shoulder. I take my finger away from the trigger as I had been told to do before entering the range. He leans in and says: "You are on your last clip!" He leans back and takes his hand away from my shoulder. I realize I had been having so much fun in firing the Thompson in bursts, I forgot about going auto. I take aim. Squeeze the trigger. *BRRRRRT!!* Yeah, that is a great gun to shoot.

Wasn’t the 1928 what Sgt. Saunders used in Combat!? Think it had the finned barrel, plain horizontal handguard and Cutts compensator.

He died in 1939 if I remember correctly, so at least he got to see it officially adopted by the army in 1938

I've seen late 1944 paratrooper TO&E and still don't see the BAR in them, but there is the M1919A6. It seems that many movies show the BAR in paratrooper use before Market Garden, though, and there is some photographic evidence of this. You don't see sniper rifles in the TO&E either, but you rarely see grenade launchers on rifles in movies set in or around D-Day, despite them being issued at two per squad for the M1. Before D-Day it was primarily the M1903 Springfield that was for launching grenades, and you don't see that either.

Yes the only American infantry formations that had standard issue Thompson were the (marine) airborne and rangers. Otherwise, like you say, they would acquire them from vehicle crews or supply bases themselves. I think the widespread use of the Thompson in films and videogames has made people believe it was standard issue everywhere (I used to in the past)

@@K-Nyne at the start of WW2, even the MP-40 was primarily issued to vehicle crews. Thompsons were also issued to US Army mortar crew, although mostly before the M1 carbine. In many ways I would have thought an M1 rifle would have been better there than the Thompson, as it would have been about the same weight with a few clips and longer-ranged. Officially chemical (smoke) mortar men got M1917s, which is an odd choice given their limited standard status. I doubt they often issued them, and the only WW2 photo of US forces I've seen with an M1917 was a Marine iron sights sniper.

@@K-Nyne U.S. armored infantry (the halftrack riding infantry in the armored divisions) had standard issue Thompsons from the beginning. The 1942 TO&E used for the operation Torch landings specified one Thompson per halftrack, officially issued to the driver, apparently intended as self defense if he was operating the vehicle alone. Rifle squad sergeants quickly modified that arrangement, picking the Thompsons up themselves or assigning them to column point men. The drivers usually wound up with M1 carbines. Which they generally liked, as they were a lot lighter to tote around than a Thompson. Usually there were three rifle squads but five halftracks per platoon, so some rifle squads actually wound up with two (the MG squad and mortar squad having little use for them).

@@WalkaCrookedLine I know, that is why I mentioned vehicle crews. Halfway through 1944 these Thompsons were replaced with M3's but the Thompson stuck around wherever they'd been swapped

Or commies :))

@@MIMthegreat The Communists have the PPSH.

lol ask how many gi died in hand of thompson in korean war lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz😂

@@MIMthegreat hmmm somebody got offended when Nazis were mentioned 😉

@@jelly.212 They just added to the list. No idea why you would assume anyone was offended.

Weird how he used the 1921 version with a box magazine instead of the M1A1. Presumably he'd have access to pretty much any gun he could want and there were probably more M1A1s in stock than the older, non-military variant. I'm guessing he used it because of its higher rate of fire? Even still he'd run out of the 20 or 30 rounds he had faster.

@@visassess8607 From what he told me, is they started out with Car-15s and M16s mostly, along with M60s. After the first few firefights, he ditched his M16 because in his words “it got good men killed” due to the unreliability of ammunition and lack of cleaning kits at the time. He then switched to an M14, but do to the short engagement distances, it over penetrated on combatants and was an issue. During this time, other unit members started using, Swedish Ks, MAT49s, grease guns and whatever other SMGs they could scrounge up. Eventually he got his hands on the Thompson and never looked back. He like the high rate of fire and the caliber. Said the effect on target was extremely effective. Ammo wasn’t too big of a concern as they were resupplied 2-3x a week via airdrops from UH-1s. As the war went on the arms and armament they used became more and more unique, like Stoner 63s, chopped M60s, RPDs and AKMs for example.

@@maxrieker1591 I didn't know they chopped down the M-60 and Stoner 63. Just looked at some pictures of both guns taken from Vietnam. Very impressive!

I find that interesting that he liked the box magazine and not the sticks. The sticks, from what I have heard, also led to less jamming. The PPSH, I know, was notorious for jamming with the box magazine

Very interesting as the 1921 TSMG was rare to be found even in the US Army/Navy/Marines during the 1940s, since only 15,000 1921s were ever produced and records show that a scant amount went to the US military; to have a 1921 in Vietnam would be super-rare as it was no longer found in the US Ordnance inventory, nor were spare parts for the 1921 in the supply chain.

He used the 1928 model with the 30 round mag. The M1A1 ver. later became the standard.

Never understood why Johnny doesn't use clips from Combat, Rat Patrol, Hogan's Heroes, 12 O'clock High, etc, etc...

Yeah we Dutch are really proud of those movies

My father was an RN Commando from 1942-45 and often used the Thompson, but disliked it because of the weight and inaccuracy at longer distances.

Kinda funny because the image of Winston Churchill holding a Thompson was used in German propaganda to depict him as a gangster or a crook.

It was actually referred to as 'the gangster gun' - and a more pressing reason pre-war was the cost! Tommys were expensive, Britain was broke and the gold/pound/dollar exchanges extortionate. BSA did consider looking into acquiring the licence to make them here, but its association with the IRA deterred them (Oh, we're all off to Dublin, in the green, in the green, where the helmets twinkle in the sun, where the rifles flash and the bayonets clash, to the rattle of a Thompson gun......")

Well there was an interesting incident which occurred in the early 1920s in which about 400 TSMG Model 1921 were going to be smuggled into Ireland to the IRA as part of an arming scheme for Irish Independence. The 400 TSMGs were discovered aboard a freighter by a crew member and the 400 TSMGs were returned back to Auto Ordnance with scratched out serial numbers- these versions called Irish Shears. Over the years, 1921 TSMGs did make their way into the IRA and this symbol and weapon spoiled the taste of the British for the firearm, along with Hollywood movies. WW II changed all of that and with the Germans well- armed with MP 38/40 SMGs, they wanted a SMG as soon as possible, reputation and image be damned.

Some of the Thompsons issued in North Africa in the beginning of the war were French contract and the manuals were in French. When France fell, they were re-routed to England. They were given to the ANZACs, who took out the Blish lock and replaced it with a hex bolt and welded the peepholes in the magazine shut to keep out the sand. One of the big complaints the British had was how the Type L 50-round drums would often jam, fail or break. They were replaced by the Type XX 20-round magazine. The 30-round magazine was available in late 1942 but didn't get into common issue until after D-Day. The big problem was finding webgear ammo pouches for the 30-round magazines.

The Thompson`s that The Royal Marine Commando`s used had their Sling Swivels moved onto the Side of the wooden Furniture, front and rear but I don`t know why.

Famous Churchill photo carrying one

​ I'm thinking it lies flat across their back when the crawl or swim.

To be fair, the M3 Grease Gun is excellent in its own right. Equally reliable, lighter, and a slower rate of fire for easier control.

@@huntclanhunt9697I’ve seen them jam. And the slow rate of fire, ~450 rpm, makes it effectively a fast semiautomatic.

@@mikem6176 They didn't jam any more often than the Thompson. You seeing them jam does not change what I said in the slightest.

@@huntclanhunt9697 Well, good for you. But calling the M3 “excellent” is an exercise in hyperbole. It was an Uber-cheap wartime replacement that wasn’t expected to stick around long. By the time I carried one it was over 40 years old, and much like the dino-tanks I trained on, definitely showing its age.

@@mikem6176 It wasn’t old when issued though.

I have one...get your own ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9BzsTruSNc0.html

Auto ordinance makes a version but it is an sbr

Get into airsoft

@@Red_Star_robin I don't think too many people want a Thompson SMG that's not select fire lol, being able to shoot full auto is sort of the point

@@redtra236 I don’t think too many people are gonna drop $$$ on a original plus tax stamp

Definitely not the first batch

@@redtra236 The 1928 had twin grip, finned barrel, Lyman sight ,Cutts compensator and "1928 " stamped on it. When England purchased them they added sling rings to rear stock and front pistol grip ( on side ). Earlier models were mostly 1921 model, I think. I shouldn't have said "first" as the 1928's were a batch made at the start of WWII on the idea that they would sell . Thompson made tests on the effect of different rounds on dead animal carcasses and saw that the .45 had a very good stopping power, and was already in use in the .45 Auto pistol in the US forces

Love those movies ❤

Yeah, if only they had destroyed a real tiger 1 for the movie

@@imadrifter Oh no that would have been too expensive, maybe if the movie had been made back in the 50's like that 1955 Czech film The Tank Brigade, then maybe they could have done it, back then the Czechs had access to huge amounts of actual leftover tanks from the war. At the time SPR had been made that would have been too wasteful and expensive so a better idea could have been a sheet metal mockup like the replica cheap diy tanks that folks like omeyfilms or hobbyists make.

Shooting through the slots of a tank is a war story trope. I remember a Sgt. Fury comic book where they take out a tank by the squad pouring lead into a German tank through any opening at point blank range.

I should be able to do that in the near future :)

...but it was readily available and that is all that mattered.

@@edmundcharles5278 Hardly. It was expensive to manufacture, and the US military had relatively small stockpiles of them since they were still somewhat skeptical of the concept of the SMG. They began phasing them out of service as quickly as possible.

@@DPRK_Best_KoreaWell, they tried to. The M1928 design was made obsolete by simpler and cheaper weapons, and was itself officially replaced by the M1 & M1A1, but its days were indeed numbered. But production delays meant that there would never be enough M3 & M3A1 subs to permit the Thompson’s retirement until after the war, by which time the US had produced over 1.5 million of them.

I'll look into it 🙂

Yes, a stamped version TSMG should have been considered, but this never happened.

I thought about it forsure. Despite the subject matter I really try my best to make these videos a bit light hearted.

@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq You've got so many classic movies to pick from, though, from the original Paul Muni "Scarface" through to "Some like it Hot." "What this (a Tommy) in your golf club bag?" "Oh, gee, dat's mah macchie......"

No wonder every gangster hip fire this.

@@theanimalguy7 Close quarters it wouldn't much matter either. Recoil is easier to control with hipfire the ways the gun is shaped.

Absolutely on my list but give me about a month 🙏

@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq Amazing, I love this channel!

Maybe it was an M1928A1? Inaccurate if it was an M1A1 it was inaccurate since it wasn't invented until 2 years after Dunkirk.

There are plenty of SMGs as reliable or even better than the Thompson while also being more practical. If it's supposed to be open bolt, the Sterling comes to mind. Closed bolt, the MP5 will be superior in every way

The people need more New Kids Turbo lol. And thanks man 🙏

And Kirby’s BAR, Hanley’s carbine, the Garlands and MP40. I think I also saw an episode where the Germans were using a Browning machine gun

Yeh...I watched that show from season 1 til the end when I was a kid. Some now on YT.

@@gregoryfilar1783 The Germans use American machine guns a lot of the time and pretty much always American vehicles in that show. The vehicles I can get since they probably couldn't procure real Nazi era ones but why the MGs when they do have an MG42 a lot of the time

@salinagrrrl69 Actually Bonnie & Clyde used BAR's that they stole from an Armory. Texas Ranger Frank Hamer and his posse used Remington Model 8 Autoloaders in .35 Caliber with 15 Round Magazines to Ambush the Infamous Couple - but you're right about no Thompson's being used, except in the movies....

@@charles1964 I probably misrecall the docuu I saw. But I do recall from it Clyde had 1r2 BARS in the car with one with stock sawed off. Ezr to fire from fleeing car window?

Excellent story Ed! Love hearing this experiences. Nice ending for everyone there too.

Thats a big issue with the Thompson and .45 ACP in general though even compared to rounds like 9mm Luger it sucks at defeating light cover

Not yet but it's differently on my list :)

I used to order the small arms munitions for an RAF station, and the armoury sergeant told me this story. A group of new recruits were being given training in the use of sub-machine guns when a WRAF girl walked past. The sergeant invited her to try firing one of the weapons, but 'forgot' to tell her the correct way to stand, feet apart to brace the recoil. She pulled the trigger, started being spun around like a catherine wheel, and, my informant said, you had never seen a dozen squaddies dig a slit trench so rapidly.........

Thanks man! Will do. Those are big projects so you just have to give me some time.

@@JohnnyJohnsonEsq yeah no doubt! Looking forward to it!

This was a tough video to make. I had like 300 movies/TV shows to pick from lol

Yeah! Whaddabout the "Sarge," from '!Combat!' Never ever ran outta ammo.

@@rayw3332 🤣

I think that should be doable

Ever since i watch SteveMRE, i always pay attention to mre on millitary film

Certainly an interesting subject. Would have to do some research on them.

Correct, and as stated previously, the TSMG was not a firearms to be carried long distances, if at all possible, by straight leg infantry. If an alternative higher weapon was offered up, it was usually taken up by the infantry and paratroopers who had to hump with everything on their persons, unlike those in the armored divisions.

@@edmundcharles5278 Its about the same weight as a Garand(with box mag) and way lighter than a BAR so that seems like a bit of an exaggeration.

M1928 for me

The first UK SMG was the Lanchester, an MP28 copy, produced until 1943, partly in parallel with the Sten. In essence, the Sten is the Lanchester simplified to the extreme, apart from select-fire capability.