Gandalf: "She left you a son. Tell me, which do you think she would have you value more?" Damn, I wish they had left that in the original cut. It's so blunt, yet so powerful a statement.
Agree with both comments. Like instead that idiot troll scene with the malfunctioning staff... maybe that 'value more' one? In that scene, Gandalf was truly Gandalf, who speaks small wisdoms that opens one's eyes to things they should focus on. An advisor who instead of leading just shows leaders the possible right/better way (as it was his original role)
That would be awesome! But there's going to be a LOTR TV show based on Aragorn's early life and Tolkien wrote he visited the Woodland Realm many times before
Alright, I hate to be the lore expert in the comments, but a show on the Woodland realm would not work AT ALL. The Woodland Elves don't have a movie worth of lore, or a show worth of lore. They only make sudden appearances here and there, but their lore is very bland. They could always make some show and make up their own stories for the Mirkwood Elves, though it wouldn't be as good as something based off of Tolkien's works. Overall, a show based off one group of Elves would be pretty bad.
I would love to see a movie with Thranduil they can show him and his wife together before she died and how she died in the war so well know more about why thranduil wanted the gems.
Hmm, a bio-pic about Thranduil growing up, meeting and marrying his wife, raising Legolas, and even overseeing Smaug’s attack on Dale/Erebor from afar while fighting giant spiders from Mirkwood in between
It wasn’t PJ’s idea. It was the studio execs who insisted on the love triangle, along with lots of fight scenes and scenes with Alfrid and Thorin. They did not care about the other character’s backstories.
I wonder though if the symbolism was inspired by different ethnic groups in the real world. The dwarves are portrayed as shorter and having big noses and a greedy affinity for gold. The elves seem like the Nordic whites by contrast, long straight blonde hair, blue eyes, tall. And for generations the hobbits and elves have been in a cold-war, again just like the uneasy relations between the whites and Jewish peoples. Thoughts?
I have a theory about how Thranduil's wife died. There's a scene in Desolation of Smaug where Thranduil shows Thorin that he has felt dragonfire and reveals his horribly disfigured face. Legolas says that there is no grave and no memory of her. I think that Thranduil lost his wife to dragonfire and there was nothing left of her to bury, hence why he values her gems so dearly.
Sean Corcoran Perhaps. I actually really like that. The IMDB page for DoS does mention that they meant for the scars to be an injury to Thranduil's fea (spirit) showing through to his hroa (body) because the two are so entwined and it was a moment of intense emotion for him. But I do like that theory. Hmm.
@Claire Youmans Mithrandir got the ring from Cirdan, who was Narya's original bearer. Upon the wizards arrival in middle earth Cirdan had a vision that Mithrandir would need the ring more and gave it to him.
well, to be fair, his realm is in shambles because of Saurons presence. and his kind are less wise and noble than the galadrim. its not like everything is working out in Mirkwood
@Claire Youmans but why have that non-canon suspicion if we know canonically that its false? and he is definitely not the character to deny a ring of power. even in the hobbit they say he is greedy for treasure and power
Those gems represented his love towards his wife. Elven love is forever and a sacred bond being immortal love to them is much more important than mortals. As he could have lived forever loving his wife but knowing he can't hurts him and drives him to get the gems back.
Just the opposite in reality... mortal love is far more meaningful as you are choosing to spend the only life you have, your one brief window on Earth, with another person. Let's be real though if immortal beings existed none of them would be married or in love with the same person forever. You gonna spend 10,000 years smelling the same rank pussy over and over? You'll grow tired of that.
Yawg moth we are talking in the mythical sense elves are immortal and stay forever youthful. They cherish love because if an elf loves another elf they can experence life together for eternity.
If the elves were so superior, then why did they need a bunch of stupid jewels to keep the memory of a loved one? That is literally letting worldly posessions replace your real emotions. Karl Marx calls this the fetishisation of commodities, and that is literally what the elf King is doing here. Ironic, since it is the very opposite of natural. Only occurs in societies with highly divided labour. Even humans don't do it naturally, it's a disease of civilizations and "primitive" societies don't do it. Hell even in LotR, the hobbits seem to be immune to material greed. Supposedly, it's a specific weakness of dwarves (and humans to a lesser degree), but here it is the Elf who literally kills for a trinket. At least the Laketowners are literally at risk of starvation, while the dwarves are defending their inherited posessions.
I feel so bad for Thranduil. Elves live forever and he lost his soulmate. Destined to spend eternity alone, without even his wife's gems to comfort him. Dwarves truly are greedy for trying to make him pay to get his family heirloom back. The money wasn't even an object for Thranduil, it was the principle that an old "friend" would try to profit off of his grief. I totally understand why he turned his back on them.
Yes, he wanted the dwarves to make the gems he gave to them into a necklace but after they were made, he was too greedy. It wasnt the elves that wanted this war, it was the dwarves.
yeah those fcking dwarves are so damn greedy , they have tons of golds and gems in that mountain but still they want some payment from thranduil ..like for real that small piece of lasgalen gems is just like 0000000.1% of their wealth , they could've just gave it away instead.
@@jeydidelacruz455 I know they’re already naturally greedy but it had to have been that ring Sauron gave them. One of the seven rings of the dwarf lords. That and the whole gold sickness in the mind. Maybe that ring of power belonged to Thorin’s grandfather before it passed on to his dad. And maybe it still had some influence over the mountain hence why Thorin went mad for a bit. Just a theory
@@jeydidelacruz455 who are you to decide what someone else should do with their property? That 0,0001% still belongs to the dwarfs so they are entitled to do with it as they see fit.
Thranduil only became an isolationist after the death of his wife, meanwhile, the reason he was willing to lead his entire army to war with the dwarfs for a handful of jewels was purely because of these treasures belonged to his wife. Also when Thorin and his company entered his kingdom, they were captured by the woodland elves and were treated as his guest, they were imprisoned after they annoyed Thranduil after the dwarfs insulted him. In addition, Thranduil's woodland elves were only 'isolationist' to dwarfs but were friendly to us men, they have close trading ties with people of lake town. If you get into the woodland elves territory, you will be treated as their friends. And before I forget, Thranduil, helped Bard and his men after the dragon destroyed their homes, it was not like what's been portrayed in the film that he 'bribed' the men with materials to fight for him, he came with good intentions.
CentreLeft Libertarian Perhaps, but it's quite hard to make a music/clip video from a text only source! I do understand that the books and movies are different. This project was only meant to show Thranduil's story as it was portrayed in the movies.
Where in the many books of ME history did you find info about his wife? There isn't any. The only mention of his wife and her supposed passing is from the film writers. If you support that storyline, then you really can't disagree with how they portray the rest of the relationships.
He became isolationist after his father Oropher died in the first battles of Mordor prior to the arrival of High King Gil Galad and King Elendil. Thranduil abandoned the Last Alliance and took his people to Greenwood the Great.
ST3Intrigue new head canon: she had an epic magic battle with the witch King of angmar, and almost had him beat with her light magic, but then he finally used his ring and summoned a serpent of the north to kill her, leaving nothing but ash and white gems in her wake while he transforms into the first nozgul and is later slain by thranduil after he sustains serious burns from the battle and is forced to retreat. the dwarves later find and gather the white gems of lasgalen from the battlefield and inform thranduil of them but refuse to give them up when he refuses to pay a ridiculous amount for them fashioning the gems into a necklace he did not ask for, believes disrespects his wife, remembers the nature of dwarf greed and realizes the convenience thror has created for himself. the dwarves were a tragic race, corrupted by greed brought on by a silmaril, their gold and jewels, the seven rings and their hatred for the elves.
gandalf 's quote to Thranduil that.... its not the gems that his wife left him is what he should love and care for ..but the son she gave him...is epic.
Then again, perhaps it would be a profound relief. Not having to hazard death in a fight and instead just march back a few hours/days earlier than scheduled? One could see that as a worthy trade.
Ya! How come everyone else gets to ride something, but there's those poor elf warriors on foot! They must have the stamina of Jesse Owens! They walk/run everywhere and then fight like the devil!
I read that when Elves are married their souls connect and never marry another or divorce, since it against their nature. And seeing Thranduil alone and pained with the loss of his wife just makes me sad because THEIR LITERAL SOULS CONNECTED and then she died! It’s so tragic and painful for a character so great.
I read somewhere that when Tauriel says "There's no love in you" to Thranduil, she was utterly wrong, and actually he had loved so much thay he had been hurt very deeply upon losing his wife, and he couldn't love anything without feeling great grief. Tauriel's love for Kili was going to be used to highlight this.
Yes that’s correct. Though all of this was made up for the movies. We don’t get much insight into Thranduil’s relationship with his wife in the books: and his reasons for being at Erebor have nothing to do with her.
@@sophiejones3554 Yes. All he wanted was the white gems (denied to him by the dwarves, for some obscure reason) so he went to Erebor to try to get them from Thorin. He did NOT want to go to war (in the book) but was talked into helping the people of Laketown get back what Smaug stole from them from Thorin. He did eventually get some of the white gems back in the form of a necklace "of Silver and white gems", thanks to the generosity of Bilbo, whom he, the king, named elf friend. Jackson completely changed the written nature of the Elven King. Still a good story, but very different from the book. I didn't mind, of course. The more Thranduil (Lee Pace) in the movie, the better!
Willing to declare war, and willing to put the lives of thousands of his kin in danger, all for a necklace. Some may call Thranduil selfish, but this shows just how much he loved his wife, and how much she meant to him.
Or maybe he merely foresaw that the Orcs would move on Erebor and overcome the Dwarves there. Which is what happened, and they almost lost even with the help of the Woodland army, the Men of Laketown, and Gandalf himself. It doesn't take a military genius to realize that, and no one wants rich Orcs for neighbors.
There was also the clip where Tauriel talks about star light being memory. Without the gems, Thranduil feels he has no monument to his wife. Perhaps that is why Legolas says there is no memory.
But one of Thranduils most unreasonable talks is this - one moment he would go to war just for these gems, and at the other moment he looks upon his dead warriors and says that he lost enough of elven blood for this cursed land. And where is logic in this? To me a big land where ppl can live safely is more worthy of fight a war than a bit of jewelery, which are presiouss to only one man as a memory for his lost wife.
True - without that scene it makes you assume he is cold and heartless even though we could understand why. I also love how he puts Legolas on the path to meet Aragorn
Yeah, that deleted scene is shown in the Behind the Scenes footage. It was filmed and should have been in the extended version, but the studio execs edited it out. What a stupid move! It explained Thranduil’s motivations clearly.
All he wanted was the only treasure other than Legolas to remind him of his wife. Having it stolen, and the thieves refusing to give it back would send anyone over the edge.
@Claire Youmans oohhh my could you please let me know when you publish it and where (fanfiction or AO3 I assume). Or let me know your username and I will follow. Please please please!!
the hatred between elves and dwarves started in the first age. King Thingol asked the dwarves to put a silmaril into a necklace. when Thingol came to claim it the dwarves were filled with greed and they wanted the necklace for themselves so they killed Thingol. the elves went after the dwarves in revenge for their king and killed almost all of them but some ( i think it was two) of the dwarves returned home and lied about the elves not giving them proper payment causing the strife between the two races. (all this is from the Silmarillion)
ya, she is annoying. That ass-pulled elf-dwarf romance was annoying too. Good to know they just made it all up, in reality "Tauriel" doesn't even exist.
@@Amphitera uh-huh that's what you mean but little do you know that Legolas was not supposed to be in the story, go back to lord of the rings ya sliky hair the book is damn short bet almost anyone here read it, don't like it go tell the director :) bruh it was described as elf with hoods on and dark green clothing or something get some sense
Thranduils crown is so badass...such an awesomely designed crown usually items that are sharp and narrow usually are associated with bad/evil intentions but since it is wooden it fits perfectly since it tells you that Thranduil as a character is in a moral gray area it also tells you that he doesn't value the gems as much because if he did his crown would be studded with them.He instead values what they represent to him. The last remaining memory of his wife. As usual the prop makers at ILM prove why they are the best in the world.
0:29 "When Eluriel died I lost everything, until those gems arrived on my doorstep. In that moment I received some semblance of hope. An opportunity to grieve her memory. And Thrain took that from me. Stole that from me. _Killed that from me._ People keep asking if I'm back and I really haven't had an answer. But now yeah, I'm thinkin' I'm back. So you can either hand over that necklace or I'll kill you with a fuckin' pencil!"
That is contentious. When elves die they go to Valinor in the Halls of Mandos and get reincarnated there that was the gift of the Elves which is to be always bound to Arda. All the Elves of middle-Earth were allowed to go to Valinor so maybe Thranduil will be united with his wife again as it is known that some time during the Fourth Age all of the elves in Middle-Earth are either gone or sailed West.
Thorin’s succumbing to Dragon’s Sickness hits harder when you acknowledge how surprised he was to his grandfather’s greed and disrespect towards the Woodland Elves when he openly denies their king his dead wife’s gems, whether or not he knew what that necklace really was.
Seriously Lee Pace was Absolutely marvellous!!👍👍👏👏👏👏👏👍👌 And of course gorgeous!!! They should do a movie about just Elves lives!! 👏👏👏👏 And to the ones who put thumbs down if you’re not a fan of the movie why you’re here?? Stay out with your negativity!! Shew off!!🙄🙄👎
It's a cool look, but not very practical for someone who has to ride between trees. The book implied Thranduil had horses, but where he kept them is anyone's guess. I mean, living in a cave and all.
Search yt for the Thranduil cosplay Lady Gaga parody (I think the song is called Donatella). It's all about his utter fabulousness! ; ) It's actually really good!
I like how he portrays the arrogance and pride of the elves. Shows you they knew they were above most races in wisdom, stature, art, grace, and lifespan.
Idk In art ,war and other aspects dwarves seem clearly superior, considerijg they had mithril,such advanced unbelievable weapons and such durability that dain the ironfoot killed around 3,600+ orcs alone during War of Rings outside Erebor(not in movie) before being struck by an arrow. I would clearly prefer dwarves in architecture and war and tools
@@crzahmed9707 Not war. Definitely not war. The only things the dwarves have are weapons and numbers. Thranduil >>>>>>> Dain in a fight. And if we go off Tolkiens verse, Fingolfin could essentially solo Ironfoot.
I totally dig Thranduil's immense drive to recover those jewels. I mean, yeah sure he has Legolas as a living memory of his wife but Legolas is of his own and his son would not be around him all the time and eventually go on his way. He would at least have those jewels as a constant reminder of his beloved through the thousands of years after he lost her.
Gems of Lasgalen were an addition to the story by Jackson. Basically, the story is loosely based on another story from Silmarillion. Instead of Thranduil, the elven king was Thingol and the name of the necklace was Nauglamir. Nauglamir was the most precious work of dwarven smiths and it was made for the elven king of Nargothrond, Finrod. Nargothrond was sacked by Glaurung, the father of dragons. Hurin found the necklace after the death of the dragon and tossed it on the ground in front of Thingol. Thingol appointed the dwarves to place a Silmaril, stolen from Melkor by Luthien, to the Nauglamir and the dwarves delivered. The dwarves decided to keep the necklace as payment, kill the king, sack the elven city, and lie to their fellow dwarves of what had happened. Elves sent soldiers to kill the dwarves and dwarves retaliated by sending an even greater host, stealing the entire treasure from the elven city of Doriath. Beren retaliated, killing the dwarves and claiming the Nauglamir which then he gave to Luthien.
Nauglamir wasn't Thingol's to keep. Nauglamir was made by dwarves for Galadriel's brother, King Finrod. Dwarves simply demanded Thingol that he gives them back the Nauglamir since Finrod is dead. I hold Thingol responsible for the sack of Doriath. Even his wife, Melian warned that Nauglamir and Silmaril will bring great destruction to Doriath.
@@MuhammadAhmad-pl4sj Yes but who was it that agreed to place the silmaril on the nauglamir? Was it not the dwarves who agreed on the request of thingol? They should have just demanded nauglamir, instead they agreed on the commission. No it was not the dwarves to keep after placing a silmaril of which luthien and beren stole from melkor.
Luthien and Beren is Tolkien's best story by far and its a love story. Honestly that story is 100x better than the entire LOTRs. Action, Drama, Romance and very epic.
Your wife, the gems, your son, they are never yours. What was borrowed must be returned, and all you keep are the memories with them. Honor the memories, make good ones, for in eternity these shall be your keep.
He is sooo epic. Pretty elf eyes of his. I find him one of the most intriguing characters in middle earth. Can I just wake up one day and be so gracious and mysterious and shrouded in beauty like him !?
I love the moment of Gandalf counseling Thranduil. The way he looks up at Mithrandir, the angelic being who was there when the world was made, reminds me of a hobbit looking for guidance from a wise old man.
The grief from losing a loved one can torment the race of mortal men all their lives. Imagine an elf experiencing the same grief for thousands of years.
One thing I appreciated was how the guard behind him tensed and/or reached for their weapons when Tauriel pointed an arrow at him. I always appreciate the background actors doing more than standing around with deadface waiting to be needed again.
0:24 That is the Thorin we love. He didn’t understand why the gems wouldn’t go to Thranduil, since it belonged to him. And when taking the Mountain, he just mocked Thranduil’s desire to have the gems. Greed kills you. If your valuable goods are in your head and your heart you’re done for.
Beautifully edited. You restored a character arc that was otherwise broken in the original cut of the film -- because the most important scene was cut for some reason. There are many beautiful moments in the Hobbit trilogy that was lost to the mess of a production that it had. Including this.
Tom Moore Thank you so much for your kind words! I was exploring the arc of Thranduil's story as it was hinted throughout various scenes in the movies, as well as learning how to rearrange audio clips and work with multiple layers of audio.
Anybody who’s curious about how ‘the rift’ started.. it was the dwarves. They started it. I forget the names so I apologize to any Tolkien fans out there, but basically there was this elf that brought some gems to the dwarves to be turned into jewelry, because dwarves were some of the best jewelers. Long story short, the dwarves did as they were instructed, but took the completed jewelry as payment for their work, and there was something else about how all gems rightfully belong to the dwarves, I think? The elf was pissed, of course, when he came to retrieve and pay for his jewelry only to be told he wasn’t getting it. But basically dwarves started it.
I absolutley love Thranduil,its obvious that he loved his son (but idk why legolas didnt show affection towars him),he loved his kin and did all what he thought its right to protect them,its shown how deeply he was saddened by elven soldiers death and about the gems they belonged to him,thoren was wrong in not giving it back
I didn't even realize that this mini-story existed within the Hobbit movies and I've been re-watching it a lot lately. Thanks for this bit of Middle Earth lore presented in video format! :)
“You think I give a dead dog for your threats, ya pointy-eared princess?!” - A single dwarf riding astride a boar with his back turned to the elvish king and army that he was roasting I typically lean towards liking the elves more, but that was just savage lol
Okay, is it just me or do we need peter Jackson to make an origin film with Thranduil as the main character and how legolas's mother gave her life to save her son's life. What a great arc that can be
This may have been only in the movie, but remember: Thranduil was not named until LoTR This gives Thranduil a good character arc I absolutely love this, and Peter Jackson even said "these movies are an adaption, we kept some things from the book, but other things we added in and changed." (Not verbatim btw)
Who is the most dominating actor in history and best looking? Lee Pace who plays Thranduil. I like how he looked in Twilight as a red haired vampire. The other day I was telling someone how 3 actors from the Hobbit series played vampires. The actor who plays Bard made a handsome Dracula in DRACULA UNTOLD. Aidan Turner who played Kili played a vampire in a series who worked night shift in a hospital ad a doctor. Pace was in another movie I have on DVD called MISS PETTIGREW LIVES FOR A DAY. Movie is set in 1939. DVD is dated 2007, only he was not in it as much as I would have liked.
Elves are my favourite race, they are so elegant in literally whatever they do whether its fighting or not, theyre armour looks amazing as well so clean and nice designs on it
The king of the woodland relm eyes😭😭😭 he's hurt, in pain, that pain he feels turns into frustration,..... excuse me Lord thranduil for weeping like a child.....
Thranduil was born before the War of Wrath because he took part in it (not to be confused with the one in which his father died). The War was in 587 AD. Then the great angabandu dragons / lizards appeared and he said he was fighting them. He was born in the heyday of Doriath, Elrond was born after the fall of Doriath and we know Elrond is 6500 because the date is given (532 of the First Era) we also know that Elrond was very young during the War of Wrath and did not fight dragons and Thranduil did (of course also was young), which means Thranduil is 7,000 years old (the same as Celeborn). Thraduil was compassionate but reasonable. He just saw the nightmare of wars and his heart as book says was "deep dark and wounded and the memory reached back to the nightmares of war" Intelligent, successful, very disciplined and able to see the bigger picture. He is my favorite character.
WHOA!!! Thank you! It now all makes sense! The movie made the elf king seem greedy for jewels but your edit helps see that he did it all because he mourned his dead wife
In my perception of the trilogy (having never read the books), the movie producers wanted to personify Thranduil's character and create Tauriel as the person the King once was before his greatest loss- his Queen (Legolas' mother). His sudden compassion and understanding of the raw pain Tauriel felt at the loss of Kili, that was the link between both characters. For us viewers (especially like me), to understand why Thranduil was so cold and distant (which he was not, when his Queen was still alive) and why Tauriel was this passionate free-spirit who has suddenly experience true hurt and loss that in the end of the trilogy, both characters know empathise with people they were and have become through love and loss. I hope made legible sense and not offended Tolkein's die hard fans
No offense taken, bit Tolkien had already written enough loss and disappointment into Thranduil's history to explain how he was without the contrived tragedy of the necklace. He was raised never expecting to succeed his father or even lose him, only to be suddenly thrust into a position of power over a realm that had lost two thirds of its manpower. He then saw the greed of one man causing the loss of the One Ring, which that whole war had been about -- destroying Sauron for once and for all. Then ne sees evil returning to his woods, bit by bit. And he loses his wife some time along the process. I would become somewhat cold and distant myself. And as we know, he is destined to lose his son as an indirect casualty of the Ring War. I would be careful about loving too deeply after that, considering that love can lead to horrible pain. It was all right there in Tolkien's world. They didn't have to make him look greedy, althoughba movie that made Thotin the action hero might tend to do that.
There's one scene missing here... "-Tauriel: If this is love I do not want it. Take it from me. Please... Why is it hurt so much?. -Thranduil: Because it was real."
O'm not so sure it was the gold. Some people believe that the Arkenstone is one of the lost Silmarilli, the one that was tossed down a crack in the earth at the end of the War of Wrath. Erebor is clearly an extinct volcano where it might have been sent back to near the surface. The Silmarilli caused a kind of posessive madness in those who owned them.
Wow! This was brilliantly done! I've only recently come across work by Lee Pace and haven't seen the Hobbit movies so I've been piecing bits together to get the story. Your work is masterful in it's combination of clips joined with emotionally moving music. Your work presents a coherent story that maintains the emotion of the scenes. Thank you for taking the time to put this masterpiece together.
Lee Pace in 'Miss Pettigrew Live For A Day' made me fall a little bit in love with the guy. It's a great movie too, so you should definitely check that out.
