Three RC Plane Crashes - Tail Heaviness & Wind Shear (E-flite Viper 70mm & 90mm)

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#radiocontrol #flight #rcplane
0:00 Introduction
0:25 Viper 70 Takeoff
1:35 Touch & Crash \ Aftermath
2:42 Viper 70 Preflight
5:15 Viper 70 Takeoff
6:10 Touch & Crash \ Aftermath
7:29 Viper 90 Preflight & Takeoff
8:18 Why I Land With Crow
8:45 Wind Shear
9:25 Poor Touch & Go
10:22 Arrested Cartwheel Landing
11:02 Cirrus SR-22 Taxiing
12:24 Cirrus SR-22 Takeoff
12:56 Thoughts & Cirrus SR-22 Landing
eflite, horizon hobby products, e-flite, eflite viper 90mm, e-flite viper 90mm, edf jet, 90mm edf, sport jet, radio control, remote control, rc plane, rc airplane, smart jet, ix20se, ix20, spektrum, smart plane, smart esc, avian esc, reverse thrust, high alpha, rolling harrier, Three RC Plane Crashes - Tail Heaviness & Wind Shear (Landing Tutorial Failures), e-flite viper 70mm, eflite viper 70mm, viper 70mm, viper 90mm

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6 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 111

@txkflier 2 года назад

My 70mm E-flite Viper has the worst stall and landing characteristics of the 14 EDF’s I own. Why they say it’s a good first EDF is beyond me. It’s obvious that its wing has no or very little washout. It’s also very hard to land without the nose wheel touching first. The Freewing 80mm Avanti S is a much better plane.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

This man gets it. That's why I said this is a beginner's jet in price only. It'll teach you about accelerated and asymmetric stalls very quickly, assuming you're high enough to recover. Even with washout introduced with crow, the jet just flies really weird. It's nowhere near as well designed as the Viper 90 is, and they're ostensibly based on the same airframe.

@txkflier 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC A wing needs to stall at the root before it stalls at the tips. The loss of lift at the root will give you some warning before the tips begin to stall. Another thing to consider is that the chosen CG location must make the airplane stable in both the pitch axis and the yaw axis. The pitch axis is what we tend to concern ourselves with by putting the CG between 25 and 35 percent of the wing’s MAC. But what if the plane has a long nose, a short tail moment, and the vertical tail is ahead of the end of the fuselage? It could have a tendency to swap ends in the yaw axis. Crow is good for canceling some of the pitching down of the nose caused by the flaps, but the ailerons are 20 to 25 percent of the wing chord. Raising them can’t really fix the problems with the airfoil ahead of them.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

I'd wager that's what happened here. The first wreck shows me holding full throttle and full left rudder to counter the wing stall. Doesn't even have any effect. It's almost like the CG being too far back just caused complete yaw instability once the jet began stalling.

@lseguy 2 года назад

Dont deny the avanti superiority, but when setup stock, the 70mm Viper is a really good beginner plane. I also use SAFE on a switch for takeoff and landing. (Again, its billed as a beginners jet, so yes, I use beginner type settings). I have at least 60 flights on mine with zero issues. If I modify the settings, thats really on me.

@txkflier 2 года назад

@@lseguy Mine was stock with conservative throws and CG location. It snaprolled unexpectedly and I barely saved it. You have to really work at getting the main gear to touch first. Beginner EDF pilots won’t have the finesse it takes to keep the nose wheel from touching first. If it weren’t for its narrow landing gear, the 70mm E-flite F-16 would be a better first EDF. I sold my 1st 70mm F-16 to one of my students as his first EDF and he has no trouble flying or landing it. The Viper will bite you. Good name for it..

@enzok6414 2 года назад

Nice clips, Jon! Crosswind and tall grass sure would make things challenging! Hope you can get them back in the air soon.

@pdadio 2 года назад

After flying a lot of foam planes as a beginner, I am just getting now flying the classic foam warbirds and it is a whole different experience. I am imagining that the jet is on another skill level altogether. Thanks for your flying experience and analysis! Very helpful.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

The 70 is definitely a harder jet to land than it really should be. The 90, not so much, though traces of the 70 remain in its flight characteristics.

@seany11244 2 года назад

It's so hard to talk and fly in stressful situations. Kudos to you man.. Love the content.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Thanks Shahpar! I do it so often now that I barely even notice it anymore.

@aerialphotographyadvance0007 2 года назад

I have crashed my 70 and 90 Viper 3-4 times. I fixed , and now they are flying better. Hangar 18 , great place to make business!!.

@squibblejack 2 года назад

Thank you sir once again, for all your hard earned knowledge sharing. Your good attitude and keeping going is Awesome. Glad the 90mm did not get beat up to badly. Wanted to come back and show some appreciation, towards the repairs. Also I saw the pinned comment, I have been eyeballing the Freewing Avanti 90, or 80mm. Over and out sir!!

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Thanks so much man! That's a huge help to the channel. I actually repaired the 90 the night of the hard landing and shot a new channel intro AND a standard flap / crow flap landing tutorial yesterday. That'll go live tomorrow, with plenty of info on how to use both techniques to get this jet - or any jet, really - down safely. I personally don't like the look of the Avanti but if there's enough channel demand, I may end up having to get it.

@RogueRc Год назад

The content you out out is amazing. My viper 70 is squirrelly on landing and now I can see why. I’ve caught it stalling when banking for my approaches under low throttle and now I know my landing approach with this plane needs to change altogether.

@TwoBrosRC Год назад

Thanks so much Eric! Your support really means a lot to us.

@LeeShand 2 года назад

I'm not ready for the Viper yet. I think the Extra is gonna be my next plane. Time to use the Horizon points !!

@KB_RC 2 года назад

That plane is amazing! Enjoy it!

@genodesan4954 2 года назад

Great videos 👍 You seem to be one of the few not trying to sell a plane lol. I've been flying for 6 months now and 1 month off safe except to save myself in a panic mode. Just got two edfs last week and I feel like I'm learning all over again. You fly awesome but this video shows me it's not the end of the world to crash or have a not perfect flying session. Thanks 😊

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

It's just foam, buddy! You can repair it if you feel up to it, or you can bin it like I did and save the parts for something better. The more you push yourself, the better you get. Don't be afraid of a model, use it to learn and grow your skills.

@burlingtonfilms Год назад

Glad I'm not the only one who has wingtip stalled this jet. I crashed it 3 times on stalls then gave up. I started with the habu 70mm then thought the 70mm Viper was a good second jet but I don't know why it's classified as beginner. Picked up a used f22 90mm and it's so much more beginner friendly.

@TwoBrosRC Год назад

Asymmetric stalls are easy to experience in this jet - it's part of why it's a good trainer, so you learn to stop being aggressive with elevator input. Flying it nose-heavier actually helps significantly with tamping down the asymmetric stalling tendency.

@3DMOFO2020 2 года назад

10:45 Thankfully it could've been worst Awesome job on the video Jon sorry for your crashes but you'll be back next time better then ever👍 I'm not always the biggest fan of flying windy days when it's gusty unless it happens to be going on one steady direction or If I doing with a older reliable plane that I know could soldier on through plus that I'm not worry about crashing LOL.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Thanks buddy - I definitely don't do windy days here at the airport precisely because of wind shear and rotor, but my goofy ass decided to go up and try anyhow.

@Price1717 2 года назад

Sure am inspired with your attitude when a mistakes happen and we all do you take it so gracefully . Turbulent winds and small runway to try and nail it . But you did awesome 😎💪 Are you planning on going to one of the days at the EDF in Elizabeth Indiana June 9-12? I’m going be awesome get some set up tips you sure a master programer 😎💪

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

I'd love to check that out - I've seen the field and it looks amazing. Not sure I'd be able to fly anything though. If I came back to Indiana, it wouldn't be likely that I'd have anything with me - I'd just fly in. Thanks for watching Pauley!

@Price1717 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC Jon, I replied to yours , but didn’t see it show, but nonetheless I’ll be there couple days and your welcome to fly mine all you want 😎

@bobturner3388 Год назад

it's important you show those bad days also! it shows that everyone has bad days....nothing to quit over

@TwoBrosRC Год назад

Haha yeah I'm not going to quit this hobby over a 70mm Viper. I gave it a repair already and called it quits after it nosedived again. Saved the parts for something better.

@bobturner3388 Год назад

Jon, I noticed the same issue with full flaps and slow flight with the application of elevator causes unstable flight. I land only in takeoff position which eliminated the stall tendency

@TwoBrosRC Год назад

That unfortunately makes the landing glideslope even longer and you come in with a significant amount of speed. It's not a great tradeoff. Honestly, though, I think the issue was just too much tail weight. If I had shoved the battery to the nose of the jet, it would have been totally fine.

@markdaniel8740 Год назад

I have a viper 70 with a few flights, all successful so far. I usually fly in any wind, but I think I will be more cautious with the viper.

@KB_RC 2 года назад

Amazing video Jon! Man! Bad luck that day… happens from time to time! I’ve never flown a Viper 70mm so I don’t know the flying characteristics. I did fly in formation WITH a Viper 90mm this weekend! It flies amazingly! But your an amazing pilot so I’m sure it wasn’t your fault! (Viper 70mm crash) So sorry all that happened! You’ll get them flying again soon! When you were landing your Viper 90mm, why are you so hard on the sticks and you push them out very far to get the throw you want… is that what expo does?😂😂 I never use expo or rates. Great flying Jon! Are you going to Oshkosh EAA Airventure this year? Have you ever? Thanks man!

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Expo does make the center feel less sensitive. That's how I prefer to fly. With how large my throws are, it's required. If you don't have max possible throws, expo doesn't help you at all. If you do, it makes it feel smooth throughout the control range. You should try it sometime - you won't know if you enjoy it until you give it a shot. I won't be in Wisconsin, sorry - it's a bit far for me to travel.

@KB_RC 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC Alright! I’ll give it a shot sometime!

@andystoybox1723 2 года назад

That’s what I call a bad day ... we have them once in a while 🤷🏻‍♂️ It happens .. I always see it as more experience .. makes us better 👍🏻👍🏻 They will be back 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Already fixed the Viper 90 - but I'm selling off the parts on the 70. Just didn't see the point to it anymore. Thanks Andy!

@7demo7review 2 года назад

It’s strange, my V70 has none of those stall tendencies. I started w 4000 mah and moved to 3300. With the 4000 I cut away some foam and the battery covered the rx

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

With a 4k pack and no tail weight, you wouldn't experience those asymmetric stalls as easily because you'd be flying very nose heavy. If your control throws are limited to 100% and the servo linkage geometry isn't set up to maximize deflection, you'll also not experience it as easily as I do. I fly 150% rates with full possible surface travel - with a more neutral CG, this jet drops a wing easily throughout the flight envelope.

@old-rcplane-phart 2 года назад

IF we never pushed ourselves to get out of our comfort zone, we wouldn't ever have anything to repair 🤷. (Like the 1 dude we fly with, has an aeroscout, always flies on safe, & will run a 3s/2200 smart pack down to 1% on a regular flight. BUT thats great, but not for me.) Thanks to YOU Jon, ive learned ur KEFS, & am doing it now even on my antique CZ cub ss, & almost everything i fly! Even my fms super ez (1.2m 'trainer'😜!) Repair'n is learning too! 😁

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

So cool to hear that man! Thanks for being you and watching as always.

@tabdycollins 2 года назад

Hi Jon, Heading Hold! I've ordered a couple of heading hold gyros which are designed to help keep a tricycle gear moving straight on take-off and presumably will do the same on landing roll-out. They wire into the steering servo. I have a Venom which is a nightmare to keep straight during take-off run. In Forward Programming there is a heading gain setting. I think primarily designed for helicopters. I'm wondering if one can use this to hold a heading. I fiddled around with it using my Timber X - on the ground - but couldn't see any corrective movement. In any case it calls itself gain rather than hold. Perhaps it didn't work because I hadn't blipped the throttle to activate AS3X. I can't find any heading hold anywhere on the menu. Am I missing a trick? Seems to me that heading hold could be useful when flying in High Alpha or perhaps when hovering but maybe the nose high attitude will put the gyro in a position where it can't sense heading changes. I've searched the Internet on this without success so wondering if you have been down this line of thought.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

You're talking about the Assan steering gyro. I've considered it but just settled on using my trimmable nosewheel setup. I usually have very few problems with tracking straight. Heading hold is designed for aircraft as well, but it's kind of limited. I've used it and it does work for holding high alpha, but you have to be aware of how the plane flies in that condition. You can easily stall out and aggravate the stall further with the gyro trying to hold the nose up with degrading airspeed. I will be showing the reworked Gripen with a 40mm CG demonstrating heading hold on the pitch axis and what a stall looks like when you're flying like that in an upcoming video.

@tabdycollins 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC Thanks. I'm probably being a bit retarded but I can't find Heading Hold in the NX10 menu. Only Heading Gain - which is in the Forward Programming section.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

@@tabdycollins Heading is found under Forward Programming in the AS3X setup menu. Heading gain should be the same thing.

@tabdycollins 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC Thanks again and I'm looking forward to your video of your Grippen.

@tabdycollins 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC I'd stupidly failed to activate AS3X with a blip of throttle! All now making sense. Sorry to have wasted your time.

@andybean35 2 года назад

I have this jet took me forever to figure out how to land it without smashing the dang nose gear. This is what I had to do to get it to land perfect every time pretty much. The CG is fine in the manual for setting that up. You need to put weight in the back end and have just a tiny bit of tail heavy. Not a a lot but just enough to were it is almost balanced evenly. If you are landing this in safe mode. "DO NOT USE FLAPS"....... You will have a hard time getting it to flare at the end. It will not come up enough to not hit the front landing gear first. And you will be replacing it or bending it back every time. Flaps are fine if you are flying in advanced mode. The other thing I have learned is you need speed to land this thing. It will tip stall every time just before it hits the ground. With or without any wind.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Yeah, I covered all of this in the maiden & setup earlier. Appreciate your insight however.

@goodcopbadcop9872 Год назад

Might not have anything to do with the stalling in this video, but do fliers not balance aircraft about the roll axis anymore? I have some planes that I had to add quite a bit of weight at a wingtip to get them to balance. All improved in handling with proper balance. Some flew like squirrels unbalanced.

@TwoBrosRC Год назад

It doesn't - the jet was not laterally unbalanced.

@chiefbd 2 года назад

I have the Viper 70 and it's the most stable jet I have. I takeoff and land with half flaps with no issues. But mines is stock, I'm really wondering if your weight in the back caused most of the issues. I can fly this one all day long, but can't stop crashing my F35 that you fly like it's a damn trainer lol.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Viper 70s aren't known for stability at lower speeds which is where this issue happened. Any shift in CG (caused here by the new F/A-18 exhaust nozzle and 0.75oz of tail weight) will lead to an unrecoverable asymmetric stall if you're too low to the ground. Sucks, but that's what happens when you try to push the envelope.

@chiefbd 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC I appreciate your videos and attempts to customize and see what is possible.

@Donkey_Balls 2 года назад

Spray some Round Up in the cracks mate.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Lol I already did - just waiting on it to work. Sprayed on Sunday evening after the F/A-18 tutorial was shot.

@Anokaman 2 года назад

Torque roll with that sudden throttle? Never flown an EDF so just guessing on available torque. Have fun!

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Nah, it's not torque - just stalling due to elevator input with a tail heavy CG with full flaps deployed.

@popapup1 Год назад

I agree torque roll some think EDF's will not do that. but put one on a stand and snap the throttle like that and you will see it.

@bigmage2 2 года назад

Man id be looking for a place to fly with alot wider runway

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Nah, I enjoy it here. The challenge is fun. It's free pavement, too. The guy who mows the property just needs to mow everything, not just one side of the taxiway.

@SteffenRC 2 года назад

Sorry Jon.... There are some weeks like that for sure..... Those are the weeks, when I go to my Timber for low stress cruising around.. Just sit in a lawn chair and mozy around, doing touch and goes, main gear landings and work on the rudder skills... I appreciate you ALWAYS pushing to envelope... Have fun.......... Will

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Thanks Will. I try not to take it hard - it happens.

@SteffenRC 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC Ha.. No chance. All of us take it hard.. Then we rebuild or buy another and go back to flying and having fun.. We often forget these are just toys. Easily repaired or replaced... That said, I will lament over a crash for a day or two.... As my daddy would say.. " As long as you learned something, it ain't a total loss...."

@a10nmw Год назад

you clearly have demonstrated that what a learner would come across when flying an edf jet, we learn something new everyday , try to keep your landing approach low and faster and you can feel the difference with handling..... good luck

@TwoBrosRC Год назад

It definitely wasn't an issue of approach - the jet doesn't like tail weight at all. Even if it's still nose-heavy, the CG being too far back on the wing makes it laterally unstable and it departs in a severe yaw. This was shown twice - it's an unfortunately designed aspect of the jet, hence why nose heaviness is preferred on this one.

@goodcopbadcop9872 Год назад

@@TwoBrosRC I dunno, seems like the jet doesn't like the furring strip you are trying to land on! I think with a bigger, non-grass strip the plane would have fared much better. I'd bet there are only 5 or so pilots in my club that would attempt flying there on a calm day, let alone in a steady cross wind.

@TwoBrosRC Год назад

@@goodcopbadcop9872 That isn't the issue at all.

@MrOvidiu111 2 года назад

Hi. What can hapen in an powerfull rear traction car when accelerate too suddenly in a curvy road?

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Lol what's this got to do with RC airplanes?

@MrOvidiu111 2 года назад

Some way the forces acts the same in the both worlds

@MrOvidiu111 2 года назад

To much force some time is bad for stabil flight,special if the plane has posterior propulsion

@winggs88 2 года назад

I fly my viper70 with a roaring top 3300 6s battery in all kinds of winds and it flys great. None of this tail heavy crap.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

You didn't add weight like I did, so a 3300 isn't likely to cause tail heaviness.

@winggs88 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC Yes sir. Why did you add tail weight in the first place. Ive flown mine with 6s4000’s also without tail weight. Hope you get her worked out

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

@@winggs88 Because I wanted to see if the airframe would fly better with a more neutral CG. Performing some maneuvers nose heavy is nearly impossible in a lot of models - this one was no exception.

@andybean35 2 года назад

@@winggs88 I had to add a lot of tail weight to mine. CG was done by the book. I use 4000 6s smart battery all the way back as far as I can go with it. And it was still nose heavy like crazy. So I added weight and put the battery all the way up front and it balances out just a little tail heavy.

@Sabotage_Labs Год назад

Fly, crash, repair and repeat man. That's how this hobby goes, eh. Just be glad we aren't in them...huh...lol.

@FFE-js2zp 2 года назад

Good bird procedures needs 6-12 inch grass.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Do what now?

@FFE-js2zp 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC Airports are supposed to keep grass length between 6 and 12 inches for bird control. Otherwise they feed on the short side, or nest on the long side.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

This place barely qualifies as an airport - this is a statement I've heard from the pilots who fly there.

@FFE-js2zp 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC I kinda figured or it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to share the field.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

There's potential plans to redevelop it into a bigger airport with my input to help guide it for shared radio controlled and full scale operations, keeping it going the way it is now but with proper maintenance. It's all good to go so long as it doesn't get big enough to have a tower. Once we're in controlled airspace, I gotta fly somewhere else.

@ArthurRC 2 года назад

6:38 that’s the problem with huge elevator throws 😕 if you had less throws it never happened I think my man 🥰

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

You'd think so, but I'm using a ton of expo here - like 85% on the elevator. The amount I was pulling here was comparable to how much your throws are limited to. It could have been throw, but I'm almost positive it was tail heaviness. When I added weight, I totally forgot that I had already added tail weight in the form of the new F/A-18 exhaust nozzle and foam filler. It was already about as far back as it would fly stable, then I added more weight. Bad idea lol

@ArthurRC 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC aaaaaah yes I see I see 😕 Tailheaviness intensified 😂😂😂

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

@@ArthurRC Better than nose heavy amirite

@ArthurRC 2 года назад

@@TwoBrosRC 🤣 we agree 😜

@maxun1 2 года назад

LOL I land the viper with FPV and is a fantastic airplane, maybe the best edf out there. People that trash this plane need to learn to flight or build and rc, even do the viper got no mystery.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Try flying it with a new exhaust nozzle and 1 oz of weight in the tail, then take off with full flaps. Let me know if you don't experience the asymmetric stall that I did. :) The 70mm Viper is far from the best EDF out there - it has a lot of nasty stall characteristics even without tail weight.

@jeffhenderson934 Год назад

I’m the worst pilot in North America, (6 years running) this was my 2nd edf, and I still haven’t destroyed it. You had to do that on purpose.

@TwoBrosRC Год назад

Nah, just made it neutrally balanced. The jet can't fly like that.

@rachaelplant2504 Год назад

and thats the problem with stability... when it lets go its not coming back !

@davidgerlach1132 Год назад

Chaos at 1:50 🙂 I don't know why. I know you hate to hear this, but with this Viper, using SAFE on takeoff this stall will never happen. It's just a quick flick of the switch.

@TwoBrosRC Год назад

This was an aerodynamic issue caused by an aft CG. SAFE would not fix that.

@davidgerlach1132 Год назад

You be a lawyer, always great very informative videos. I always learn from your success and challenges, because you push your RC limits.

@MrGirwin1123 2 года назад

Piece of advice ditch the 4000mah and use 3300mah. Your not gaining anything but more chances of a stall.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

I don't have any 3300s. If I did, I'd use them. :)

@maxun1 2 года назад

People make too many negatives comments because they suck as pilots and is always the airplane fault, then this a warning, never ever buy the freewing Phantom, or Mig this jet are not designed for the mentally impaired , LOL, we have in our field 1000's of flights, very rare we see someone do something stupid.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

People tend to blame anything but themselves. In this case the Viper 70 crashes were entirely my fault - adding tail weight on top of the tail weight I'd added in the form of the Freewing F/A-18C nozzle made it uncontrollable with full flaps on takeoff.

@bartonfink5051 2 года назад

Dude concentrate on flying instead of talking. I am not a good talker flyer either. We as viewers can sit back through the pucker moments. Interesting vids thanks for sharing.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

I fly and talk fine, but appreciate the concern nonetheless. Thanks for watching!

@roymoon1 2 года назад

Tail weights, crow. Your ideas sure seem to break a lot of foam. My Viper 70 doesn't roll like yours at low air speed. But then I don't firewall it at stall speed either. My belief is on a an EDF jet you should stay well above stall speed unless you are putting it in the trunk.

@TwoBrosRC 2 года назад

Sometimes I crash, but I'd wager I crash a lot less than most people while still pushing the limits of what these airframes are capable of. There's other channels on RU-vid where pilots can be seen flying in circles. ;)

@old-rcplane-phart 2 года назад

As tamiya wrote decades ago, "NO guts, NO glory!"