THUMB Shooting with Joel Turner 

For many years I shot western recurve bows with split finger/arrow,left side. Then I tried a Turkish style bow with the arrow on the right and the thumb draw and I was totally sold. Just drawing up and shooting with an Asian style bow is a very special experience that I recommend everyone to try. For the last 3 years, more and more of my western bows have been hanging on the wall while I grab one of my Asian style bows when I go out to shoot. Great video and thanks for sharing.

I would love to see Clay Hayes, Joel Turner, and Armin Hirmer do a video together in Malta. That would be so cool.

I'm kinda stoked for this video. Was waiting for the east and west to finally meet. I dont think we are done evolving archery.

Answered a few I the questions that kept coming to mind when I’d seen photos and videos of Joel shoot. Thanks guys.

i remember when i was like 10 i was first introduced to a release aid to the compound bow. then over time i learned about the thumb release an asiatic archery. now im doing an apprenticeship for a horn bow maker. thanks for the insight!!

Two of my favourite guys...thanks for sharing 🏹

I really like your thumb draw setup. Thanks for the videos and hints!

Love this video, helped tremendously

Finally found someone who bought a left handend riser despite being right eyed! Great to see that this thing actually works, I'm still waiting the arrival of my new riser to shoot this way

I wish we could have seen you try it Clay!

I am a thumb archer, shooting Asian reflex bows (horsebows) from ground and horseback. I find it interesting to see an archer with a modern recurve bow practicing the same technique! Possibilities in archery are endless....

Glad to see! I’ve crossed over to this style 2 yrs ago and haven’t looked back. Even modified my RH Wesley Special longbow with a sanded down wooden golf tee in order to make a small shelf to place arrow on opposite side. Shoots great! Waiting on my reverse handle LH longbow from northern mist to arrive in December. Also u can use leather from an old tab to make an oval thumb pad. Place that inside the thumb portion of a tighter batting glove and it stays put. Much better than a thumb ring bc u can still feel the string.

I’m a thumb shooter too. Love it.

This is very interesting and I may try it. I remember reading "Ishi, the last wild Indian", and when I studied a bit about Ishi, I found out he shot right handed with the arrow on the right side of the bow I think. I will have to go back and check that out. The part I really am interested in is the 2.5 inches more of draw length. Maybe, I could shoot a lighter draw weight and get more arrow speed.

Love thumb release. Feels so natural. What bow is Joel using?

As a lefty this opens up a whole new avenue for me. Very interest to try this as I bow hunt and bowfish. And lord knows the average shops don’t prepare for us! That being said I have a nice stave down stairs I’ll be getting the drawknife out on soon

This is exactly how I shoot. I haven’t ever seen anyone else do this. I’ve been doing this for years. I also shoot Mediterranean with the arrow on the right side of the bow and pull back with the right arm.

Nice video interesting mix of trad technique with modern bows

I started with a "horse bow" with thumb draw and still own three of them. I only recently moved to a long bow with a "mediterranean" draw two months ago.

I shoot thumb release from time to time with my Grozer Horsebow, but seeing this - I definitely have to try it with a lefty bow, cut to center. Thanks for the inspiration!

Great advice from 2 great archers :D

Joel turner is a brilliant archer. As are you clay.

My man knows what I've been talking about for years! Thumb release is just on a whole other level, and I'm also glad how he mentioned how many Asiatic cultures shoot this way. It's not a coincidence that many cultures converged on the same shooting method if it isn't amazing, back then things like the proper method to shoot a bow could be the difference between life and death.

Ishi (from South California) used his thumb and he even used side Kharta as well.

Like a side-mounted scope on an old rifle, there would have to be some sort of offset adjustment at various distances to compensate for the 10/4 alignment of eye & arrow. That is, unless he shoots overspined arrows or builds out his strike plate a bit more. It might be an instinctive adjustment but it would still be there. I could never see the tip of my arrow at all when using this method -- it was completely obscured by the riser. Does he use full-length arrows?

Getting back into archery, picked up a Sage and then a few vintage bows from FleaBay. I wanted to try thumb shooting so I grabbed a lefty riser for the Sage to shoot righty from 😅

I started shooting this way a while ago, but with a right-handed bow. I had to string walk to place my hand below the arrow so it wouldn't be pressed to the left. But once I started doing this all my arrows in the group were so tight they all were touching each other and it felt a lot more natural to me. I just shot instinctively and then I did a robin hood and messed up an arrow really bad.

Imho: Thumb ring archery was essentially a manual release mechanism. The majority of Western hemishere archers stayed with finger release until mechanical releases.

Great video. It would have been cool to see Clay try it out so we could get that perspective of trying it out for the first time. I've shot with my thumb a few times on my RH recurve, but I've been reluctant to buy a LH bow just to really try it out.

Very interesting concept. Will have to look more into this. Nate

I might try this I have been shooting a left handed self bow for the past couple years and am just not happy with my sight picture and my for and strength is so much better when I shoot a right handed bow which I shot for many years before switching over to lefty. I will try this a time or two

If you want to have fun practicing this kind of shooting and others on the cheap grab a 60" Arc Rolan Snake Bow from Lancaster archery (or wherever, I think PSE has a similar"Snake" bow) for $45 bucks. It is tough plastic and ambidextrous (not center shot) but has built in arrow shelf. They are light draw so you can focus on process and release technique. Super fun little trainers. I am currently working on learning Slavic release (like 3finger on the draw hand side of bow rather than on bow hand side), learning khatra, and shooting ambidextrously to help with muscle balance. It is a fun humbling challenge. Highly recommend it.

Never tried shooting Eastern style from a left hand bow. I’ve shot many horsebows and old dual-shelf fiberglass bows from the 60s like Ben Pearson and Paul Bunyan with this style and I always shoot an arrow that’s much, much stiffer than one that I would shoot off the left side, but I’ve always had much better results not even touching an anchor point at all, which I guess is why Joel uses a bow that’s cut to center, because he brings it to his face/head which brings the alignment straight, much like drawing an inch away from the head, but because you’re shooting a bow that’s not cut to center and you’re using khatra, the arrow flies straight anyways. Thanks Clay for sharing this with us. 👍🏼🏹🇺🇸

Thanks for the video. I have a question about archer's paradox. when it comes to compound bow shooting with a release, does it matter which handed bow I shoot?

Could you please make a video on the pros and cons of titebond 3 vs hide glue?

Having to re-learn shooting a trad bow, might as well put this style to the test. I'm a lefty, so headed to your website to make sure i got this right.

Good lesson

I just bought a left handed black hunter longbow (inexpensive) and I am trying thumb release. This video inspired me to try it.

I have been shooting thumb for years with right hand bow shooting right had. I use a leather tong off my middle fine that wraps around string and grip with my thumb. When I release, the leather acts like I have gripped the sting like someone shooting fingers. It perfect and my bow performs like it would with a mechanical release

I gotta try it

I started making bows before I knew much about shooting. I'm left handed in writing, and shooting a gun but I've always thrown a ball with my right hand which is my stronger arm. So I made myself a right handed bow and never realized until recently that my left eye dominance makes me se the side of the arrow. I shoot relatively well with my right handed bows, because I can see the launch angle. Because I'm so used to that i find it hard to shoot left handed with my eye directly over the arrow.

love Joel Turner, even with his Me, Myself and Irene haircut

I love his open mind regarding other ideas of archery. Most people are terribly dogmatic in their views about archery.

Theres alot to learn in archery. I'm a beginner

Hey Joel, which short hunter bow will work at 30” draw? I’m looking into switching from a horsebow to a hunter but I want the same compact size. Any idea?

What recurves with cutouts lend to shooting this style? Many have thumb and hand grooves as well as grip angles that make holding a bow with the opposite hand that it was intended for uncomfortable.

Does thumb shooting change the stresses at the shoulder? Had to, just, sit back and watch these vids because 1) no thumb rings at archery stores, 2) shoulder debilitation from back in the day (over 60 now).

Hmmm? Never thought of it, THANKS. 9:30 to 10 sight picture is about what I do with an old mod 97 no sight 12Ga. , and that works GREAT! my whole life! Why not an arrow? lead, drop, hold over, Kentucky windage may plug right into my head's ballistics calculater? Thanks, going to try it.

I shoot thumb release and I find myself agreeing with everything this guy says. Especially for a shorty like me (5'7"), I like that with thumb release, I can draw my bow out to 31" inches no problem, whereas with three finger release, I could only get to about 28". And I agree that with thumb release and the arrow on the far side of the bow, the draw cycle gets your shoulders into good alignment in a very natural way. I also find that it's easier to get a very crisp release using thumb draw, especially when you have a good thumb ring. The only drawback I found to thumb release is that there's a bit more of a learning curve to aiming since, as your guest says, you have to get used to having your eye at the 10 o'clock position and wrapping your mind around the fact that the arrow is offset slightly from line of sight. Although having said that, you do get the advantage of seeing the arrow's pitch, as your guest says, and that makes learning to judge the correct launch angle to hit a target at a given distance a bit easier.

So do you use an opposite handed bow? I'm a left handed shooter so I would need a right handed bow for this correct?

I'm interested in this. What bow is this?

Great vid as always! I am very interested in switching shooting my recurve to thumb shooting because of arthritis issues in my 60 year-old fingers. Can I get started with a righty bow? Even with access to a lefty, the grip doesn't work at all, again, arthritis. (Friends are suggesting I switch to a crossbow - snowy day in hell...) I can't see getting a lefty bow with a righty grip because of $.

I use thumb draw certain bows. Haven't thought about it with a long bow or recurve

So cool to see someone thumbdrawing a modern bow. I am saving up for a modern ILF hunting bow in LH (I’m a righty) and I was afraid it could be a failed experiment. Good to have confirmation.

cant wait to see more people hunting with eastern horse bows and breaking down techniques on the youtube

I’ve always done this naturally!!

I went from compound to recurve to horsebow. Horsebow is by far the best type of bow for all applications and by far the funnest one to shoot. Once you build your thumb muscle you would hardly pick up the other bows especially for recreational shooting. Why test science when you can test your instincts?

So im a lil confused as a right hand shooter do i get a left hand bow. Then hold it righthand with the arrow on the lefthand shelf. Thwnen draw with my thumb?

nice...👍👍 mast try it....🏹

Is it blackhunter longbow at video?

Great

I realize I'm posting on a video probably too old to get a response. What tiller do you need to get optimal performance for thumb shooting?

i gotta ask what riser is that?

yup

I've been shooting with thumb ring and I like it ,it requires more strength than fingers

What's the riser he's mounted? It has the largest sight window I've ever seen *-*!?

Is there a problem with shooting thumbdraw on the left side of the bow? I think thumb on left is the best combo

The Turkish bow ia the best one and known for the thumb release shooting from horses

Hell Yeah!

Hi Clay, question for you. I read online that shooting lighter arrows can sometimes mean more hand shock. Is that true?

That just blows my mind. I am left eye 👁 dominate, but right handed. I tried to shoot my Dad’s right hand recurve lefty and the arrow just falls off

I've been playing with Asiatic bows this year, Turkish and Mongolian, for those interested in barebow shooting, they are great weapons, like anything new, took awhile to become consistent, but now I am good enough, at typical Hunting ranges, my Son is left handed so he can also use the same bow and just shoot the other side. In the UK, where I live bow hunting is illegal, but the Turkish could easily drop any game we have here. I posted a very amateurish video showing it, next bow will be from Grozer in Hungary at 80-90lb, that should put holes in things!

I wanted to have LH bow and shoot with thumb draw...👍👍👍

I love thumb draw, mostly the khatra you can do is very satisfying and you can hear the arrow doesn't scrape past the handle/riser. As for aim, you'll get used to it. I'd say when it comes to target shooting I'm still more accurate with 3 under. But only slightly. Thumb draw isn't inaccurate. With Mediterranean your arrow shoots slightly left of center with trad bows (no center cut) if held vertical Thumb draw would land slightly right of center. (Slavic draw would land miles to the right XP) Also the biggest plus side to thumb draw is the techniques of string twist and khatra, with those you don't only add speed to your arrows, you can also apply them for over or under spined arrows. Your spine doesn't matter as much anymore. You can make them fly straight with technique.

After watching this video I'm convinced that thumbs are better than the other.

What bow is that?

can ye pull 120lb bow?? is it safe?

Nice video! If you want to see some serious thumb draw, then check out "Lars Anderson - A new level of archery". That guy rules!

No finger pinch issues and prob a bit more speed

Native Americans also shot thumb release. As well as many Polynesian tribes. And the Japanese, Koreans, and Mongols. I've heard, but not confirmed, that this is a major pice of evidence confirming the bearing land bridge theory of migration, out of Africa, to Asia and Polynesia, through Mongolia, Siberia to Alaska and down to Modern Day Florida and Chile. This mostly took place 7,000-15,000 years ago, it would seem. The Native Americans captured escaped horses, traded for them, or stole them from Spanish Conquistadors. They immediately began shooting bows from horseback within a generation or two. Reaching a high level of horse-bow competence on the American great plains before it was settled. Keep in mind: The Spaniards did not show them how to. Because the Spanish didn't know how, or had never developed the methods. The Natives created their own bareback archery from scratch. And their Thumb-Release was the reason it came naturally to them, when the Spanish couldn't with their Medieval European three finger, opposite side of bow approach.

This is soooo intriguing to me!! I have to now set myself up to shoot exactly like Joel Turner!! I'm just seriously floored! Absolutely amazing!

Shooting on the right side of the bow removes paradox. Or are all the asiatic horse style bows doing something wrong?

Can you string walk with this method?

Exactly how i shoot. But also slavic.

As Meeting Turkish arrow strike style :)

Try it clay!!!try it!!!you just might get it!!!I see people modified bow like onida..they cut a wee bit of the arrow rest then glue a piece of hard wood so just to make it like a horse bow grip...just to shoot with the thumb draw..you can easily make a horse bow with your talent skills...it's fun dynamic and it can be used for left or wright draw...no pressure just a bit excited to see try...he he

Wait, if I shoot lefty, I would use a right handed bow?

Jupp! Somebody get those three together.

What is Joel shooting?

Instinctive shooters, canting and with 3-finger, are still looking at a ramp. It's the ramp of your bow arm. Some may not realize it. It all become second nature when you don't overthink it 😛

I shoot asiatic from time to time and i dont think its that radical, its just another style of archery, if it was you would see it in more western competitions. Asiatic archery has been around for a long time and is probably the most popular style in the world, just not the western world. He is right about it giving you more draw length though. Most draw lengths start from 30 inches and can go past 34 inches. One of the disadvantages i see of this setup is you cant use khatra.

I thought I read that Ishi shot right handed but from the right side of the bow?

So you just need an opposite handed bow but still draw with your normal hand?

🇧🇷🏹❤️🏹❤️🎯🏹👍🤗👍 show my friends 🤗👍👍

Im actually shooting this style to start out because it feels natural to me and my left eye sux shit lmfao my right eye is dominant and shooting right handed traditional feels wrong naturally

i made my own bows when i was a kid / teen , always learned thumb shooting so its awkward for me to get back into the sport and see others using it on the inside... thumb die hard, not going back

"the paradox of the arrow"

I just started archery I with my daughter, she wanted a bow for her birthday. We are both right eyed. I toke her to an archery store and bought her all of her equipment included was a righthand 20lb nighthawk recurve. Me being a diy guy wanted to make my own pvc bow which I still am, but I found a brand new 50lb left handed samick saga for $90. Long story short I bought the bow, I wanted us to stay "balanced" and I want to be able to legally take game in California. This is very interesting I will have to try this next time we shoot.

Also, why the hell does he wear his suspenders that way?? 😭

Really interesting stuff but just wondered, Joel talks about the improved sight picture shooting thumb release on right side of the bow but does the riser not block the view and line of sight to the tip of the arrow? Anyone got experience of this?