I grew up in a Pakistani Muslim household, mostly in the US, and was absolutely shocked how mainstream this is in parts of the US. There is so much here about control of women that I never experienced and that maybe others would assume based off my background. It is amazing how similar it seems to the taliban. I’m sure these groups would never want to be associated with the taliban but honestly, it really does seem like it. What struck me was the baby making factory comment and the assault on her wedding night. Just absolutely shocking and horrific. I am proud of this woman for getting out and finding her voice. I cannot imagine how brave and strong willed she must be to have survived and escaped.
@rohinaiqbal7109 I'm guessing here, but something tells me these folks will swear up and down that they are the best kind of Americans, because of their faith. And that the Taliban is simply anti-American because of THEIR faith.
Yes. There's enormous denial about institutionalized male violence and control in the USA and a lot of finger pointing at the other Abrahamic Religions like they're somehow worse. Fundamentalism is the same everywhere.
I’m a Christian and I approve this message. I think ALL organizations should be taxed. Look at Kaiser Permanente HMO hospital systems: it’s a 501(c)(3) and their CEO MAKES OVER $5 million/year!
Thanks for this. As a European I'm truly shocked and disgusted about the size/power this movement has in the US. In some parts it really reminds me of the Nazis or the Taliban and their Sharia law. Sure, groups like this exist in Europe as well...but here they actually are fringe. I'm so sorry for all the people growing up in fundamentalism and hope many find a way out before it ends badly for them.
The US allows for a lot of insulation even if things are in plain sight or in public as you have observed. The superstructure that allows for the hyperindividualism here enables, what you consider, fringe groups to sustain themselves. The Mormons, jehova witnesses, 9 tribes, qanon, the Turpin family, etc. People can live unnoticed and isolated in both their own property with everything they need or even out in public where cities are too big but not necessarily populated.
About the wedding night, who can tell a young girl that it is gonna hurt but it will be romantic? Romantic doesn't hurt, pain is NOT romantic, neither is rape! That woman is so brave, I feel sorry for her but I commend her for her courage!
I bought Tia Leving's book today on Amazon. The Well-Trained Wife. I thought this interview was really good and it made me want to read her experience. We are seeing so much abuse of females in today's USA that I have become alarmed. I had expected to see legislation to repeal women's right to vote, but Tia explained that. The trend of not allowing women health care has just stunned me.
I think they were talking about the tearing of the hymen, which is painful for many, but by no means all women when it happens. Remember that most young women in that cult experience s3x for the first time in their wedding night, so most of them will probably have an intact hymen (although that's not a given, even with virgins, which is another reason why premarital "virginity examinations" are very problematic). They probably wouldn't mention SA in all its forms in the orientation, since they want them to look forward to their wedding.
I grew up in the Catholic Church and my parents were ver traditional. My mum stayed home and was a wonderful caring mum, my Dad worked and was a distant selfish father who also had a heavy hand. I saw from an early age how girls and bouts were treated differently. How my mum was treated differently. I couldn’t put language to it but I felt like I had to scream and play up to show people I was more then a girl. That I was a person. As an adult I left religion. I never married. Had 2 kids out of wedlock. Support myself and only answer to myself. My life has been much happier by not being married and choosing to stay single.
Sounds like you weren’t having children by men you were even interested in. Very toxic. Feel free to reject tradition but leave children out of your ego trip.
Tia, You are changing the entire world by living out loud as powerfully as possible. Thank You thank You thank You!!!! Plz know your suffering is not in vain and your skills and abilities are serving to help inspire others and heal. I am so proud of You for escaping and rescuing your children. 💪🏼❤️🦋
I grew up evangelical and later converted to Islam. The parallels between a Trad wife and a Muslim woman's lifestyle are very similar. Different sides of the same coin.
@@aisnow5788 For the most part ALL religions have truth...in gradients...I found Eastern Orthodox truths about life, spirituality in terms of illuminating the dark places of my soul and sense of well being and spirituality. I needed a lot of healing and I found that in the Orthodox Church. The church is likened to a hospital and our sins (not judged moralistically) but as a place where we need healing and insight. For that reason, I chose Orthodoxy. To heal from my life.
What a strong woman. To overcome the lifestyle (religion, violence, patriarchy) that you grew up with is so hard. And religious lifestyle has this extra "fear of god" factor which makes it even harder.
I was raised in the Mormon church, and while some of these methods are foreign to me, the BITE model absolutely applies to Mormonism and Evangelical Christians.
I grew up as a Mormon as well but never believed the spiritual doctrine. Essentially I was agnostic as a child. It was crazy back in the 90s when no one I knew left the church, but I did at 18. A black sheep. I thought I left everything behind but I ended up marrying an abusive non-Mormon man. After deconstructing my entire life, I realized that the patriarchy I grew up in (family and sole community) definitely had a hold of me despite no longer being Mormon. It was ingrained in me that my husband must be smarter than me, be the one i should spend all my energy, time, and love on, basically that they get to choose their life but I’m just a support. My own needs and desires had been suppressed since a toddler essentially, so I carried that forward until my 40s unconsciously. Definitely cult-like.
Her daughter gave her a gift even though her life was so very short. Because of that precious life this woman was able to begin the process of escaping. Somehow looking at it that way is as beautiful as it is tragic. I am a mom, I have never suffered such a loss as that. Without that loss she would not have escaped and her children would have been subsumed by the cult.
You may have lost "everything"...but GAINED your freedom. I get it; I'm a DV survivor who raised my son as a solo single mother across the country from both my abusive ex & highly dysfunctional family. We lived in poverty, but we were free
I’m so happy that you got out alive. I pray (because these folks have distorted God’s word) you are made whole and emerge as a role model for people around you.
I was raised Christian and this was never a goal for people's children. My own father, who would be over 100 years old now if he was still alive, told me to always have skills to be able to support yourself. He said you can marry the best man in the world but people get sick, people die. Always be able to support yourself. My mother encouraged education. It always made her sad that she had to quit high school to help support her family. Don't ever allow a church to run your family! Our minister was there if people requested counseling, but they never pushed themselves on families. And spouses who were abused weren't told to stay with their abuser.
@MS-sr6mj It actually was the norm where I lived. I knew a couple girls in school who went to some sort of Pentacostal church who were made to wear long dresses and hair, couldn't go to parties, etc. I didn't realize until I was older that they were probably raised in a very fundamentalist way. My friends were mostly Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic and Baptist. We all lived typical teenage lives. We wore "regular" clothes, makeup, were allowed to do things like go to dances and movies. We were encouraged to get a good education. Maybe certain areas of the country are more fundamentalist, I don't know.
@@MS-sr6mjIt’s not as rare as you think. I’ve been a churchgoer for 80 years, and that’s always been my experience in at least four different congregations I attended as I moved. In all,from my youngest memories, women and children had a voice. Mind you, I’m in Canada, where we do have fundamentalists, too, but not like the U.S.
Yes! Maintain a spiritual relationship with God and abandon man's patriarchal religions (all of them) that serve only men. Every religion on earth has a litany of rules for women, yet very few, if any, for men.
Evangelicalism really messed me up. Similar issues to this gal. After leaving the church I was lost for many years since I didn't know how to function in a secular society.
I was raised in an Evangelical church as well. I had heard of Bill Gothard but my family didn't really practice that philosophy. 3 girls in my family. My dad and mom both have Masters degrees and wanted us to be educated even if we did end up being stay at home moms. Myself and my sisters all graduated college and remained in Christianity but only agree with submission in the sense that as Christians we are to submit to one another and our husbands, only when those people are making a request that is unselfish and within God's will. Submission is always our choice is what we were taught.
They've been slowly accruing that power. They've never lost an iota of it. They've been quietly putting themselves in positions so that when the time comes they can disband the federal government. The only thing that can stop them is that they didn't breed fast enough. There's not enough of them to convincingly steal elections. That is why they are so desperate. They know they're on the precipice of losing everything. Their only hope is to win in November. The stakes have never been higher. If they lose they've lost for good. They won't be able to make this a white Christian nation. They're dying off.
I don’t agree they have power to subject women to this bc this is a free society that is saturated with opportunity. You don’t even have to respect or listen to your parents/family once you reach the age of 18 so women and girls can navigate society quite comfortably so long as we take advantage of our rights and opportunities.
I am a gay man. I dated a controlling very wealth architect in the 1990's. Oh, the promises made, a new Audi, a home on the beach...all I had to do was OBEY. Yeah, no! Girls, trust me. The cost of being a "TRAD WIFE" is way too high! The perks are a gilded cage.
Oh my Lord! This lady is describing my father and my family of origin, plus when she talks about being trained to "people-please" I fully identified with her! This is a very valuable interview. It should ne shown in national TV..
I don’t understand how any intelligent woman would ever submit to this lifestyle, but I am very happy that the guest was able to break free of her chains.
Yes indeed, all those megachurches are giant cults and its all about money - those fake pastors and bishops are often gay themselves and married to a woman of course - that´s true INSANE.
I feel for all these women that are put through these horrible things. This is one of them thousands of reasons I despise religion. This needs to be illegal.
@LizStewart1442 I thought Mrs. Yates had an awful bout of post parturm depression. And her doctors TOLD the Mr. Yates that she was a danger to their children, but he didn't listen.
Thank you for this interview. All of my love and support for Tia! Though I was not raised in such a strict religion, her story is never the less extremely relatable and blood-chilling. I am grateful for her courage to tell it!
WOW! I just realize why my in laws treated me the way they did. My husband is Southern Baptist and I was Catholic. My in laws tried to teach me to submit, not to my husband so much but to them. We had to go to their house to do yard work, house work, pressuring us to go to their church 3 times a week. Including handing over our paychecks to them. Wanting to take over our finances and put us on a budget. I didn't need friends, new clothes, a trip to the beauty salon, or a car. Everything I needed was in the bible, including managing my diabetes. My mother in law would gleefully tell me that I would die soon, so why go to the doctor? It would be a waste. I had my daughter and Robbie ( mother in law ) was going to teach her to be a good Christian woman. Because she and her husband was counting on me to die soon. Yes, she told me that. That woke me up . Took me awhile but my husband and I cut that toxic family out of our lives, my husband is cordial but my children and I have not talked to them . When Robbie had cancer she wasted no time to see the doctor. I thought everthing that she needed was in the bible, including her cure for the cancer. Listening to you Tia, everything is falling into place and making sense now.
I'm a new subscriber, this was very deep and I'm glad I've subscribed. Great interviewer. Tia, you're a survivor, you're brave. As a man, I apologize and I feel so sorry that women have to live in a world where they're looked down and treated as less. We must do better. I'm so sorry.
It attracts abusive men. The religion is just what gets used for justification of the abusive and controlling system. The traits that draw men to these religious sects are universal selfish and insecure human traits
that is simultaneously interesting and horrifying. i'm well-past three score and ten. you begin to realize that much of what we think we know is really conditioning. and most of that conditioning is not even consciously done; it is almost automatic. the fish doesn't notice the water; the humans don't notice the air (till they start choking on it.) of course it's not much consolation that this ridiculous arrangement is misery for the males, too. i'm very glad you and your family escaped, and i'm happy that 'no filter' is calling attention to this destructive craziness.
This is why every woman should memorize the wife of a noble man in Proverbs 31. She’s large and in charge and doesn’t need her husband which allows her to just love her husband.
Unfortunately Proverbs 30 *edit: Proverbs 31:30* (when isolated) can be used to isolate and subjugate women, when a church interprets and teaches it's followers that a woman's access to god is through her father or husband.
@@SaltySerial wives and husbands are to submit to each other but people who twist scripture try to teach that a woman’s place is in the home taking care of her husband and children but not working in the home. Proverbs 31 clearly shows that she is to work from home and if you’ve ever known a farmer’s wife you see that she does exactly that. I cringe when people say that financial decisions should only be made by the husband. What if he doesn’t know how to manage money well? My parents were quite compatible with money even though they disagreed on the topic but she was a saver and he was an investor so they did well together financially even though they fought about it. My mom worked at home and didn’t work outside the home until the youngest was a teenager.
34:19 Ateood's book on abuse is mostly based on the abuse black women suffered in the US during slavery. Christian fundamentalism was also a source as well as the speaker shared. I just wanted to include that background so that people have a full context for her research.
19:19 WOW 😳 So... children are "weapons" and are born with a specific role, purpose and a "job" to do? They're not even seen as their own individual people...
29:28 so basically anything can can ensure you are mental, emotionally, PHYSICALLY, and socially healthy. They literally want you to deter from visiting a doctor.
I was in this same sect until I was 6. I remember alllll of the things she talks about. It was so wild....girls as young as 4 and 5 were sexualized. Thank God my dad had the wisdom to get us out.
I have nothing against true Christianity or even being a traditional wife. Her situation is a domestic abuse issue with a bad man hiding behind religion to try to get away with it. Oppression in the home is not supposed to be the life of a Christian. Her husband dropped the ball, and even a network of people got carried away and went too far with power and control and even started making doctrines of men above God's word in scripture. People get proud focusing on works and less on God's grace. Behind every cult leader is pride, a thirst for power, greed, and usually hidden sexual sins. What she experienced is not what true Christianity is supposed to look like. There are many wolves among the flock.
Bless you. I am upset by listening here and the response is to lump all Christians in this category. Please people. Read the scriptures for yourselves. See what is behind this “wolf in sheep’s clothing” and what is going on with children and marriage outside the church-such devastation!By the way, I made a decision to get married because I wanted marriage. Do not do that. Marry someone you know very, very well, w/o sexual intimacy, which clouds your judgement. Also. Listen to people you trust. My ex was so different than what I thought he was. He found others and God gave me what my friends call a “Hallmark movie” relationship.
Maybe I'm naive, but here's my opinion. Before getting married, a couple has to talk about the important issues like: children (yes or no), work (is the woman willing to stay at home or not / and don't strangle me; it's often a money issue), money (spending on what / how much). When and only when they agree on all of these subjects, it's a good start into marriage. When they don't agree, they should part. Don't think you'll change your spouse a f t e r getting married.
True, what once there is religious cult fundamentalism involved - you can surely forget about all those issues - the doctrine and mind control change those rules completely.
Those things are already determined prior to marriage. Why do you think they’re trained from a young age to be quiet and control the females? Everyone follows the process and know their roles in preparation to recreate this structure.
Parenting in these groups is all based on intergenerational undercare. The literal developmental damage that goes on here hits the genes in epigenetics….shit that needs to be turned on doesn’t happen. Normal skills for being human get diverted because energy is focused on containing the chaos of unreliability in parenting. Little babies learn they are not safe, a functional need for healthy development of our species. In fact, moral capacity and emotional regulation doesn’t happen either. It turns into domination and survival. It is mind blowing the literal intergenerational hell these teachers and parents are creating. 😭😭
I was never in a cult but I did experience abuse in my first marriage. My second marriage was a bit better, but my husband had a hard time keeping a job. I was never taught that I could do better by myself. I was always encouraged to find a husband. Fast forward 30 years later, I have been on my own and working. Now retired but still pick up work part time to supplement my retirement.
I saw an interview with Tia last night and now found Mia's interview. I'm fascinated as an Aussie, I have a brother (and his family ) in Canada, who seems to be in a religious cult. I wan't to understand him and how to relate to him, as we were brought up in a non religious family. I've just downloaded Tia's book - Well trained wife...from audible.
What frightens me is the preponderance of such backward thinking in 2024, and the fact that when certain issues come up, then these women are encouraged to vote! These cults have a frightening effect on politics.
This is why I don't do mega churches! They seem anti religious to me. Once you invest your churches money in becoming MEGA... you have lost sight of the purpose. I want no part of it. I live less than 2 blocks from the biggest mega church in our country and probably 80 percent of my neighbors are members. Let me be the first to say this neighborhood is weird... the ppl are not kind of friendly we are a year later treated as outsiders.
I was listening and when she said her husband wasnt into sex, that to me is a big red flag, that he may be gay and fighting those feelings he took it out on her, she was the cause of his misery.... But he could just be a TWDC
More often men who hate physical contact, maybe including sex, and also have abusive tendencies were a victim of abuse themselves. Their history of course does not make their behaviour acceptable. People who are that angry that they are gay historically take out their frustrations on their own gender, not the opposite sex.
Leaving Eden podcast. One of the co-hosts grew up in the IFB, independent fundamental baptist church. The podcast talks about her family leaving along with episodes on other cults.
Art is forbidden! Art is creativity, imagination, individuality & personal joy. Well education is forbidden too - literature, history, critical thinking. Then there is the homeschooling & isolation - prevents you from interconnecting with any possibility of encountering another point of view which would raise doubt and questions.
I had an aquaintance who was a huuuuge fan of the Duggar series and back then i had no idea what it truly was about. But no way she could have watched that and not know how fucked up it was. She called herself a feminist.
When you say "it's mainstream", does that mean that there are whole states of people living like this? How many people are in this cult or a similar one, what percentage of the population does it concern? Or does it mean that ideas of this cult have seeped into the culture and values of "more mainstream" churches? I'd like to know how many Americans live in an alternate universe's early 19th century. For how many people would project 2025 basically mean no change at all or a welcome validation of their lifestyle?
If you take a look at history and see what kind of ppl migrated to the US, you will understand. The first waves were that kind of ppl that we call extremists nowadays. Like Taliban and IS.
The horrors this woman experienced doesn't seem as much like a trad wife as it does an abusive religious cult, which is what the IBLP is. The trad wife label to me is just a modernized version of the 50's Suzy Homemaker and one which a the woman would have the freedom to made that choice. IBLP takes every bit of choice away from women; it is so, so destructive. So glad she was able to break free and go on to build a better life for herself and her children.
Trad wife lifestyle is inherently abusive because you are at the mercy of a man who can control the finances and control you as a result (including pressuring you into sex for money). Any woman "choosing" that sh t is as brainwashed as the cult ladies
Exactly. Tradwife is a lifestyle women CHOOSE based on an idealized version of the ‘50s housewife. This is FORCED on these girls through brainwashing. Huge difference.
@@jessiemedinaofficial Of course abuse happened, and probably quite a bit - it always has, unfortunately. Women were given the right to vote in 1920 and California gave women the right to open a bank account, regardless of marital status, in 1862. Other states soon followed. However, credit accounts were not possible until the 1970's.
Horrific, isn't it? Hillsong is enormous too. I heard that Australia has the third largest evangelical population in the world, after the US and Canada. Scary.
Very disappointed that I didn't find the link to part two. Correction, I did find the link but there was nothing to click on when I went there. Even subscribed but that didn't work either. I sent you an email about this but from the auto-reply I got, I'll never hear back from you. Such a disappointment as I really wanted to hear the rest of her story.🤔
The fact that we need underground railroads for anything is absolutely ridiculous, I cried a few times already and I'm not even though the video. I can't stand what everything is coming to. It's so bad, and it's getting worse.
Totally, this sounds like “The Hand Maid’s Tale” or the last season of “Fargo”. The only big difference is that her story was not fiction but all REAL... happening in some weird random places within U.S. Outraging.
I live in Oregon. We actually are the least churched state and have few evangelical churches and especially none that you subscribe. It is hard for me to imagine and seems like a real nightmare. It's bad enough that they have their own world but it is not okay they want to push their agenda on the rest of us.
Nobody in Christianity is pushing their agenda on anyone, except for cults and extremist political groups like Christian Nationalism. Ordinary Christianity does say you must preach the Gospel to people. But in a democracy, anyone can express their point of view to others. This woman was in a cult. Bill Gothard and the other hard-core fundamentalist theologians who built on his work are running cults. IBLP is a cult. Even some of the Dugger kids are coming out and saying this.
Don't forget to read 5:21, and 5:25-28. Men have to submit too. I recommend the Jubilee Bible. It flat out says in verse 21 that both need to submit to each other equally.
I object your lumping “Traditional Wife” along with the word “ Cult”. There are Traditional Wives today who freely CHOOSE this role, as well-formed adults, NOT indoctrinated/threatened, and are v/happy and fulfilled in it. Theirs is not a cult, and it’s a disservice to paint all women in broad brush strokes, those exposed to/harmed by these adverse words/behaviors. I’m very sorry that this woman/any woman grows up with disordered notions, and now need to re-program themselves will be praying for them.
Please. She married the wrong man, foolishly, after only 4 weeks. I grew up the same as her and was in FL the same time she was. No one, and I mean NO ONE, would encourage that. She needs to put the blame where it is due. On her own foolishness, and in her parents for encouraging it. Our denomination (not ibpl, but similar) never would have pushed or condoned this behavior. They would have told her to wait at least a year.
@brandy4530 Corporate punishment is illegal in the United States. That includes violating a child's body by performing violent acts for the purpose of inflicting pain.
@@alexiswinter6948 coroporal punishment at home is legal in all US States and in school it's legal in 17 states. You can google that. That's why one christian cult left my country and moved to the US because they are allowed again to spank even babies and toddlers and keep their children out of school. Here their kids were brought to school by police and put in foster care as soon as they showed any signs or told of being spanked.
