You can use writing to fix anything. But somebody has to do the writing. If the writer doesn't have any interest in fixing characters, then the characters will never go anywhere. The issue isn't whether or not it's possible to make characters relevant again; unfortunately, it's whether Toriyama has any interest in it. And it's clear that he personally does not.
I personally would like to see Tenshinhan as a mentor for Goten, so both of them would get a reason to be in the show. Right now, Goten is just a strong kid without material arts training - Tenshinhan could give him that, so Goten gets skill on top of power and Tenshinhan gets a student to carry on the style of the crane school. Also it would be kinda ironic, if Gokus son became a crane-student, when they once were the bitter enemies of the turtle school.
Having Goten become a more tactical fighter that uses a ton of unique techniques would be awesome and if Goten actually became similar to Tien in personality and motivations would make him a far cry than another Goku clone.
That is the best idea for the show that i have read in a long time, it would be great if tien and yamcha took over the kids training. Rivalry building the kids would lear their techniques. Imagine how pissed vegeta would be if in a sparring session trunks spammed him with ki ko ho. I would pay to see that.
Piccolo really does deserve to be with "the big boys". Way back in DBZ, it was just him and Goku against a new threat from space. He fought the Saiyans, Freiza, the Androids, and Cell, winning several of those fights. He is probably the most iconic DB character after Goku (and _maybe_ Vegeta). He managed to keep up with the Saiyans and even surpass them before and there is no reason he should not be able to do the same now.
Obi-Wan Kenobi Exactly. Make Piccolo relevant again. He's super saiyan 2 level currently. I wouldnt be upset if he got a power boost that was similar to blue.
The Loneliest Rocket nah believe it or not piccolo is far stronger than the inital transformation. Because believe it or not. When gohans fighting in ssj hes comparable to his full power from the buu arc. And then he re unlocks ssj2 and potential unleashed again. Im not saying it makes sense but gohan now even before the extra training would demolish his former self
The assassin style that Tien learned in Dragon Ball stops him from fully utilizing his 3rd eye. I thought the tournament of power would of been where he would of unlocked his full potential. But whatever, maybe we'll see it one day. Only been waiting like 30 years.
Toriyama is not George RR Martin, although Toriyama has created all these amazing characters (including Tien, Picollo, and Buu), he really leaves a lot of them in dust (which can disappoint some fans) and doesn't (or can't) develop them further. I am most disappointed how Super has treated Tien. He was pretty much nonexistent, then was treated like dirt by Roshi and Gohan which culminated in a poor sendoff in the tournament of power.
*Krillin* >Married #18 >Defeated Gohan with his tactics >Forced Goku to go Super Saiyan to avoid getting ringed-out >Saved 18 from getting ringed out >Defeated Majora, someone who gave 18 trouble *Tenshinhan* >Cucked himself. Didn't tap Launch OR Yurin >Got one-shotted by Gohan >Goku didn't even fight him lol. Roshi was enough for him But Teeyan stalled Cell for a few moments over a decade ago, so he's obviously better!
Remember back when Tien was more powerful than Goku? When it was stated that the Dodonpa was not only more powerful than the kamekama wave, but faster? When the kihoko was so powerful it made roshi quake? Even though all he does is constantly train he is still weaker than Krillain and Gohan, who stopped training for years upon years.
To be honest, tenshinhan has potential and doesn't make sense really, tenshinhan training since Goku death on Majin Buu saga should on maximum being on Ss2 level of power or higher
*tien past feats* >beat mr roshi and goku on a tournament >used mafuba pre-DBZ without dying (at the time it was a big deal) >his kikoho was strong enough to at least knock back semi perfect cell (but with little actual damage) >being arguably the strongest non sayian guy on DBZ (excluding androids) *tien current feats* >cant beat roshi godammit
NeoMT he didn't beat roshi , roshi stepped down before even using all his power against tien He is not strongest earthling after namek krillin is He is not the strongest non saiyan Piccolo is
Coming to Steal Yo Girl ok the reason Roshi stepped down was because he knew that Tien would win and wanted to get him to finales so Goku could turn him around. And I don’t want to get into the Krillin vs Tien debate as that could go on forever.
I was just being a dick ^^ roshi. I know roshi said that he *might* beat him if they continued to fight but roshi still quits he doesn't get beaten by tien
Coming to Steal Yo Girl I feel The only time Krillin might have been stronger is on Namek. I feel every other arc Tien is stronger. He doesn’t stop training so I wouldn’t make sense for him to be weaker than a guy who quit training.
I imagine the Tien episode in Super was written as a much better one: with Tien splitting into 4 parts and searching through a huge amount of debris of the tournament arena and using his multi-form technique to dodge sniper shots and homing in on the target; but due to budgetary/time constraints or even Toriyama's dismissal of the character it was reduced to Tien and his clones running across flat ground and getting repeatedly shot in the face.
The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc remains my favourite in the series, and Tenshinhan is a huuuge part of that. Beyond its wonderful fights with inventive moves and choreography, there's a huge beating heart to the story that feels distinctive from all the other arcs about life-and-death battles over the fate of the world, with the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai and mayyyyybe the Universe 6 tournament (to a MUCH lesser extent though) being the only other arcs of its ilk. Which isn't to say there weren't human elements to the other arcs - see stuff like Piccolo and Vegeta's development, as well as Mr Satan's friendship with Buu - but they were never at the forefront quite like this arc. Winning the tournament is tertiary compared to Tenshinhan's personal growth, and the clash of ideologies at the centre with the Turtle School and the Crane School. Roshi makes sure to teach his students to be fully-rounded human beings, providing them with a formal education and telling them to "move well, study well, play well, eat well, rest well - that is the Turtle Master way!". Meanwhile the Crane Hermit and Tao Pai Pai seem adamant to turn their students into living weapons, moulding them into perfect assassins and little else. See Tenshinhan knowing the Kikoho, a forbidden technique that's likely to kill the user - Roshi is HORRIFIED at this, and he would be, but to the Crane Hermit it's just another move he taught them as a tool to win at any cost, even one's own life. Krillin vs Chaozu is a fantastic fight and its conclusion is utterly brilliant - not just because Krillin beating Chaozu with math is funny as hell, but it also ties into the overarching theme, with Roshi having provided his students with tuition, while the Crane Hermit wouldn't - after all, they're little more than tools for the Crane School, what do they need an education for? - and this ends up being his undoing. Tenshinhan winds up having an existential crisis because he begins to realise he has free will and that he can enjoy fighting, and it's great seeing him conflicted between his allegiance to the Crane Hermit and his enjoyment with fighting Goku in a sportsmanlike setting. I like that even after he leaves the Crane School, he's still conflicted - the Crane Hermit was a shitty dude, but he was still his father figure, and he's reluctant to outright abandon him. Even at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai he tries to show Tao and the Crane Hermit some respect, getting a scar across the chest for his troubles. Tenshinhan's a really damn interesting character, and I hate that both Toei and so many of his detractors just characterise him as "boring martial arts man", because he's so, SO much more than that. Giving him a dojo in Super was a step in the right direction, as was having an ex-pupil of the Crane School seek him out. This could be a huge reaffirmation of Tenshinhan as a character - him deciding to provide these gifted youngsters a healthy outlet for their strength and not letting them get exploited like he and Choazu did. As for Yurin? A friend of Tenshinhan's at the Crane School who he inadvertently abandoned, furious that he left her in an abusive situation alone? That's some killer material! Of course, the episode touches on NONE of this, instead opting to go for dumb sexual humour with Roshi. You get the sense Toei, or Toriyama, or whoever just gave him a dojo because "hey, he's the boring martial arts man, let's give him a martial arts dojo, because that's all he is!". The Tournament of Power was ripe with potential for Tenshinhan and it was all just wasted. This is gonna get fanficcy as hell, but were I to rewrite the Tournament of Power I'd bring the aforementioned reasons for Tenshinhan joining the dojo and Yurin's resentment towards him to the forefront of the episode, as well as providing him another incentive to join the tournament - he mentions wanting to meet someone. Goku isn't sure what he means by this, but goes along with it. Later down the line, after narrowly avoiding elimination at the hands of Hermila, Tenshinhan goes to seek this person out on the arena - it's Hit. The parallels between these two characters are obvious - both stoic assassins who begin to learn to love fighting during a tournament match with Goku. Of course, Tenshinhan quit his aspirations of becoming an assassin after said tournament, while Hit seems unambiguously content to continue being one. Why is that? What's his past? Hit is a character in major need of expansion, and this could be the perfect opportunity. Having watched Hit in action at the Universe 6 tournament, Tenshinhan sees the potential in Hit as a fighter, and, wants to make him quit as an assassin - since Tenshinhan would, post-development, bare quite a lot of resentment towards the occupation. The two fight, and in spite of the MASSIVE power gap Tenshinhan doesn't do half bad as his third eye provides him with super observation, essentially negating Hit's time skip, meaning Hit has to rely on his raw strength alone, which Tenshinhan manages to circumvent quite well thanks to his menagerie of tricksy tecnhiques. If the power scaling crowd still isn't pleased with this matchup one could always just give Tenshinhan the Kaio-ken - reveal he learned in the several month gap between Yamcha's revival at the hands of Porunga and his own, with Kaio making Tenshinhan promise to only use it in battle in the most dire of circumstances, or some similar retcon like how they acknowledged Goku can't use his pre-Blue forms with Kaio-ken. During this fight we could get glimpses of Hit's past - with Hit being so old he might have even forgotten his own origins over time, and as he fights with Tenshinhan he starts remembering details of his past of being exploited for his time-skip abilities by someone similar to the Crane Hermit and he begins to doubt himself as an assassin, before remembering he killed said exploiter, and became an assassin of his own volition to take down corrupt individuals (like that aristocrat he assassinates at the beginning of episode 71). Hit declares himself the Legendary Assassin with pride, and Tenshinhan ultimately loses after the strength difference proves too much, but Hit thanks him for the match and respectfully rings him out. ...I don't know, that might sound TOO fanficcy to some. But it's proof Tenshinhan has PLENTY of room for expansion with his character, and he's not just "boring martial arts man". Toriyama, Toei, Toyotaro, whoever, PLS give this beautiful bald triclops some love
I think if you want Tenshinhan to be relevant again, you gotta bring yamcha as well. Before the rivalry of goku and vegeta, there was Yamcha and Tenshinhan, Hell if anything, those two could push each other farther the same way vegeta and goku do for themselves.
Technically yes since it hasn't been officially picked up by Shueisha, but it focuses upon lots of characters and plot points that are underutilized and in no way directly interferes with the main storyline, if anything it fixes plot holes and makes the series feel more complete. Even Toriyama specifically leaves events during time-skips to the fans imaginations so I think he would approve.
If I had a chance of writting something for Tien, I would make an Arc with character travelling universes after the Universe Survival. Most of the Z fighters goes to universe 6, But not Tien, he stays on Earth. Without the Z fighters, an enemy from other universe attack earth, and he is the last hope. He wins or get saved by someone unenspected, like Beerus or Supreme Kai. He then see that from now on, Earth can't count on Goku or Vegeta. So he starts a new journey for becoming an important member for earth again. New skills set for him "unlocked". Also, he can "zoom" before using Kikoho, he should get awesome Sniper skills.
Tien was just a prototype for Piccolo in my opinion. Personality wise they're almost the same character: really stern, really serious, really talented, but ultimately not a Saiyan and therefore barely worth mentioning. The only reason Piccolo is relevant instead of Tien is because Piccolo attached himself to one of the Saiyans. Tien attached himself to two side characters: Chiaotzu and Lunch, two characters that aren't relevant (even if I like them). If he attached himself to Goku instead, maybe Vegeta or at least Piccolo there would be SOME reason for him to hover around the spot light. This really sucks the whole Saiyan thing, it defeats the whole message of try your hardest and you can achieve anything. Cause very few people spend as much time training as Tien and yet he doesn't compare even a little. It hurt me when they brought him back in super, why? Because the best thing he accomplished in all of super was a sacrifice against an enemy that appeared in one episode. I don't count getting hit once in a training battle and staying concious as an accomplishment. Toriyama.... Saiyans naturally are rediculously strong, pick up things like flight and ki usage without trying, become stronger when they win, become stronger FAR faster from just getting injured to the point that Vegeta even exploited it in the Frieza saga, get more out of training, and have bullshit transformations that literally multiply their power with each one they discover that just keep showing up... all race based. Could you please Please PLEASE give the humans and namekians some valid way of keeping up?... one that doesn't involve sacrificing someone of the same species...
If you look at it Tien represents the traditionalist Monk that denies himself all types of passion and attachment in the beginning also included the life of others. while Piccolo represents the Jade Warlord and most iterations of the journey to the east and also the Christian devil. And the only real reason why Piccolo has lasted so long was not because he attached himself to Goku is because he was attached to the thing that made the core of the show. The Dragon Balls(kami) as well as representing The Duality between the gods and the demons. But he was not without his attachments me Amy Lee just as passionate anger as well as his Drive be the best. Using his divinity / demon Hood to get ahead of the Curve.
The side character Yamcha represents the hedonistic value people that just go with the littlest amount of talent and work. Full of attachments and Passions But ultimately basically the schoolyard jock bully. The only way to fix these characters is to have some reason to pull the stick out of tiens ass. And replant in yamcha's. Maybe by formally having an arc where Yamcha retires from baseball and tries to open up his own turtle School. And tein to actually go out on a date or at least a relaxing vacation. The only way Piccolo to become relevant again would be either him having a mini Arc where he absorbs his Father after resurrecting him and becoming the true super Namek that kami and King Piccolo was before the series started instead of the pseudo when he is now. And maybe have him go into more Divinity training. To help him control the Skyrocket and Power. Or you just have him going to Universe 6 after all this Tournament of power thing absorb / fuse with every fighter type Namek
I certainly hope they have the earth fighters learn UL. That would make Earth "something unique" compared to the rest of the universe which could attract more attention to them which means more fights and arcs. You have 2 namekians, 5ish saiyans, a majin buu thing and of course powerful (for humans) fighters all on this one planet. It's a perfect combination for furthered fighting abilities.
dude I really feel the same way about Tien and Piccolo. The way Tien is treated in super makes me extremely upset, I actually watched the OG DB first and he was one of my favourite characters!
Notice on how Universe 7, the one's who are out are those without hair (Krillin, Master Roshi, Tien). Translation: Hair=Power Fearless Forecast: Piccolo is out next!
Hmm heres something, if piccolo absorbed the universe 6 namekians then universe 6 would be erased, but what would happen to piccolo? A third to almost half of him is then from universe 6 so would he get erased too, or would zeno unfuse him first before erasing the universe 6 namekians? Same question could come from what if 2 different universes fuse characters through whatever means, where do the rules stand then
I'd imagine it depends on whatever Universe you claim citizenship to, rather than what universe you're from. Like if Frieza formally defected to universe 6 or something before the tournament of power, and they won, he'd probably be safe. As for cross-universe fusions during the match itself, as unlikely as it is to happen, the only way to lose would be time out if the fusion still counts as a representative of both, as technically there would still be at least one representative of 2 universe in the ring even if that fused being is the last one standing, so they'd probably wait out the timer/force it undone and erase the appropriate half/call it a draw (and erase both or neither/have a sudden death match tiebreak). Unless the fusion is of the permanent variety, in which case, it would probably depend on which universe the fused being claims to belong; in the Nemekian's case, that would be whoever has the stronger personality (probably Piccolo) The Dragon Ball Franchise treats fusions as whole new beings of their own, rather than the simple sum of their parts. Vegito isn't Vegita + Goku, Vegito is Vegito. So a hybrid Nemekian isn't 2+ separate beings in 1, it's a whole different being separate to any of it's parts.
Namekian fusion is different, actually is more like absortion than fusion. Piccolo would be just a new namekian, but stronger (I wonder if his color would change if he absorbed the U6 namekians) but since he is the host, would just count for himself
_Pretty much the all earthling fighters pretty much forgotten and replaced by Saiyan/Halfbreeds._ _Pretty much this entire series turn into "The Saiyan Show"_
Good to see Ten getting some love. He was awesome in DB and while he took a backseat in Z as Masako said he came in with the clutch saves here and there like in Cell and in Buu saga. Also, he has shown us some of the more interesting moves in the series.
I just realized: there is not a single universe that bothered to put together a team. Everyone seems to have focused on fighters that can mainly fend for themselves. Sure, everyone brought eight warriors, and sure, some fighters worked together, but there has been no universe that actually put a team together that actually works as a team. There is no one who thought of bringing a dedicated tank to shield their more fragile, more DPS-based teammates. No one thought of bringing a dedicated healer, someone who wouldn't fight themselves, but keep their allies in shape. No team captain outside of Gohan has really bothered to coördinate their team and come up with group tactics, and Gohan stopped being that kind of captain pretty quickly...
Maskox if hercule was around in the time of the original Dragonball say up to king piccolo could he have been on of the strongest characters at that point?
In Dragon Ball, Hercule was in fact the strongest fighter known to man (Nobody knew about Goku, so he doesn't count obviously), so he definitely would never have killed King Piccolo, but he probably would've helped a lot
I know its unrealistic for Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, even Piccolo to keep up with the Saiyans but i wish there was a way to make them more involved and at least stronger. Maybe If the show was more about martial arts and techniques rather than energy, transformations and power levels
Tien's neo-tri-beam stalling tactic against Semi-Perfect Cell remains one of my favorite scenes from DBZ. thought he was done for when he collapsed due to exhaustion. an awesome moment for a great character. and Piccolo's fight against Android 17 remains one of my favorite battles of DBZ. Hellzone Grenade (Scatter Shot)! shame that he doesn't get the opportunity to do any major battles after the Cell Saga 😢
Tienshinhan is personally my favourite character He's just so COOL!. I like what you guys did at tfs with the character. He's so underrated and he's really the first person to give cell a hard time. Also he's jacked and so interesting.
Tiens new arc could be hes so dissappointed with his performance in the tourneyment that he ups his training either by going to someone stronger or by resorting to evil magic
Rimos Abysswalker The Super Best Friends have gotten some real good play recently this year with the Game Grumps collab they did, the multiple times TFS has been apart of some of the dumb con-announcement videos (specifically Taka), Woolie being "internet famous" for a little bit with his whole, "JUST DONT SAY ANYTHING WHEN MAKING GAMES YOU IDIOTS!!!" thing going on, and Matt & Liam's (I know Liam has parted, but he's still here in my heart!!!) multiple mentions of how Taka comes on streams, and how "Zito needs someone to talk to about this game, so you should start playing it Taka (forgot which game)." They're going up in life in some way or another.
I wonder if the lack of power has to do with mindset. All of the humans lost the will to improve over time as stronger and stronger opponents showed up, but with the increased emphasis on mental abilities that may change. Maybe Tien specifically will rediscover his enlightenment superpowers.
Really, it's not that the humans lost the will to continue training, it's that the saiyans....no it's that Goku and Vegeta don't have the will to stop training. Piccolo, Krillin, Gohan, Trunks, etc, have lives to outside of punching people. In fact, a lot of the trouble only comes from Goku/Vegeta pushing things too far.
I see, that makes a bit more sense, but didn't Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha retire from fighting after the Android Saga? There's also the fact that Saiyans have the ability to increase their fighting power exponentially by transforming into Super Saiyans.
Pretty much everyone retired from fighting after the Cell games, because they had 7 long years of peace, sans Goku because he was in the "Valhalla" (Heaven for guys that love to fight and train all day). And yes, super saiyan transformations do give them a big advantage. But it's not a completely natural for them do. Plus it doesn't stop others ability to improve. Whenever someone else does training that Goku did prier, their power raises just as much.
The Ki-Ko-Ho or Tribeam moment in the Cell arc was for sure Tiens moment to shine. He definitely proved himself to still be of worth. I don't know why they waited so damn long to do anything with him though. He and Vegeta were always my favorites when I was a kid.
I think the biggest reason Buu hasn't had a strong role in the Super arcs is that...well...With Buu around there's not really any dramatic stakes. Buu is basically indestructable and can regenerate. In addition to that he can transform people into stuff. Not only that but he can heal people well too. And that's all in addition to his incredible stamina and overbearing power. Basically if Buu was around there'd be nothing stopping him from turning everyone into softballs and chucking them off the edge. With that being said one of the only ways for him to be helpfull at all would be to have him either get kicked out of the areana by someone to show how strong they are (literally jobbing) or for him to fall out of the arena for being stupid, both of which would not be taken to well by fans. Having someone who basically amounts to a white mage in a survival tournament would already make him a bit too overpowered to really have any stakes in the arc. (Oh Goku's been impaled. But who cares, Buu's still around)
The thing about his candy beam though is that if someone is stronger than him they are still able to retain sentience and even power, like when Super Buu tried to turn Vegito into candy: he/they became a jawbreaker and proceeded to kick SB's ass even as a hunk of sugar.
Buu is overpowered in the powers and abilities he is capable of, not in his over all strength. Copying people's techniques like Instantaneous movement, unlimited stamina, regeneration, absorption, candy beam, healing. Thats just the tip of the iceberg of his powers.
Piccolo should have fused with the other namekians in his own universe, the fate of their entire universe is on the line so I’m sure the namekians would understand why they should fuse with Piccolo as it is the best way to ensure the existence of the U7 namekians. It would also make Piccolo more powerful allowing him to contribute more for U7’s team. If I’m not mistaken Piccolo by himself could rebuild the namekian race or the dragon could bring back the other namekians as they would only be fused for the tournament. If this is wrong then I do apologise but from what I understand about dragon ball this seemed like an alternative way for Piccolo to become as strong as possible in the limited time before the beginning of the tournament.
Tien is quite possibly the easiest character to power up yet toryiama wont do it. Were tien is the only tri clops in u7 make a race of them in another universe that have unlocked a transformation thru a ritual. He never knew about it due to his race dying off/never discovering it. I mean come on it fits in with his motivation to train to be goku
There are so many things that could be done with all the amazing characters. I've been mulling over an idea for a bunch of ex villains team book (kind of like the Thunderbolts or suicide squad in Marvel and dc respectively) with Yamcha, Tien, Launch and possibly more going undercover and doing questionable things to beat the bad guys. A solo with Picollo fighting ancient threat both mystical and other wise could be fantastic. Maybe even a slice of life comedy book that shows the goings on of the fighters when they aren't saving the world. The possibilities are endless.
i expected Tien to use 4 arms and kikoho at the same time, either to use 2x kikoho or make it go from one hands to another to amplify it or something... also what Toriyama said in Shonen Jump #1 about Tien: "beings with a third eye on their forehead are thought to be godlike and are said to possess the power of true seeing. It seems that Tenshinhan, who was raised by the evil Tsuru-Sen'nin [Crane Hermit], lost the ability to use the myriad powers of his third eye for good purposes" so you know, i kinda hoped he can get power boost thanks to it or something...
Ok, that 2x Kikoho idea is brilliant, how did they never think of that... except for Kikoho, all of Tiens cool techniques were forgotten at the beginning of Z.
Tien has like several volumes of story telling in just those few sentences that Toriyama forgot he wrote. Backstory, journey and discovery, backstory stuff, training, unlocking new powers etc.
I love Toriyama-sensei a lot...I admire him and with all that hectic schedule I can understand why he stopped caring about some characters and ended up writing them into uselessness.... :( i like how he somehow still managed to being Tenshinhan in Android and Buu saga ... I wish Launch comes back in Super...and also the fact despite writing himself into a corner by making old characters useless he tried making up for it 20 years later in Super 😊 He cares about his stories more now than he did then when he hated it. He knows he did wrong... but well the show has grown so much into me that I can watch and episode of Gohan reading a book and still wait for next episode hehehahaha also after so long of trying to find Japanese clips on RU-vid I think I'll rewatch Thu whole series again in original Japanese version with Tsuru-san and the original narrator Yojima I think ...their voice and charcterd who act like themselves unlike how exaggerated they are in Super ( especially Goku) ..I again wrote an essay on Dragon Ball didn't I? ...:') cannot stop myannn....sorry... P.S- love your videos Masako!!!
The furtive Tenshinhan, so easily forgotten. In a series revolving around fighters, he never did anything to stand out, besides having a creepy midget for a companion. Yeah, he can fight, and he wants to be the best, so do most members of the cast. It would have been more interesting if he had followed in the path of the assassin and sought redemption. Chiaotzu, now there's untapped potential! He's a psychic, his look is unique, he's supposedly an emperor, and lacks the will to be alone. Forget Tenshinhan, he's done and bloody boring, I want to learn more about his buddy.
You know what would be cool tien and yamcha realize how far behind they've slipped so they train in the hyperbolic time chamber to become teincha realizing while they can't do much alone together they can prove they can still help
As much as I love Tien, I know it would be hard to give him some more character and continue his arc. But, I think its possible, to go on with a similar go with his Kikoho against Cell. Tien should have gotten a sub-plot where (as you said he was brought along only cause he was good at martial arts) he knows he is far below everyone else and has been for a while, and he is struggling with the concept. His absence in Z was secretly to try to power up beyond some of the other group (maybe). Back in his glory days, he was declared the best in the world, now he barely gets a pass, and has been all the way through Z. I know the whole "struggle for power" concept has been done to death ("I need to get stronger, I won't lose!") but that's not what I'm talking about, It's him trying to cope with the fact that he will never be able to be on the front lines again, not because of his own doing, but because of something outside his control.
I have an idea. So what if Goku and Vegeta (and maybe piccolo) go to universe 6 after this arc and trouble happens in universe 7, but Goku and Vegeta (and maybe piccolo) can't get reached so the earthlings have to deal with it themselves.
Hello MasakoX I love your Dragon ball Discuson and What if videos and please make a video about at last one of my ideas. Here's few good ideas for what if videos: What if Picollo learned the Kaio-Ken? What if Gohan died on Namek? What would happened and would he trained with King Kai? What if Gohan turned SSJ when Picollo died in Sayan saga?, What if Ginyu switches bodies with Vegeta insted with a frog?, What if Vegeta turned SSJ2 when Future Trunks died? and What if Gohan was a fighter as Goku?. I have few ideas for Dragon ball Discuson videos. Why did Goku stoped wearing weighted cloes and when? Why didn't Picollo learned the Kaio-Ken? Did Vegeta suparssed Goku with secrtet transformation or something like that? I hope so I wrote it correctly. 😃
The "problem" is that most new forms in Dragonball are shown by a different hair style or color since that's an easy way to sell merchandise. Piccolo is bald, so he can't have that.
There’s hope for Piccolo, I believe he can get stronger, fusing with another Namekian is a possibility but I think it’s best not to since he did that twice, a third time will just be underrated. I think he should get his own form or awakening, exclusive to his race, like maybe a transformation that makes his aura turn green, with lightning striking around it(or some type of effect like that), and a change in appearance, maybe getting more buff
A competent writer finds multiple ways to develop characters and finds uses for that character, rather than one arc and done before tossing them aside. The keyword in that is competent, something that Toriyama during the mid to late Z era showed quite clearly that his overall skills as a writer are very sub-par
Toriyama has always felt like he writes what he wants to and doesn't really give a damn about what the fans want. I can respect that to some extent but he's also very forgetful and does just forget entire characters (Launch anyone?) but I also feel it might be unfair to say that he is an incompetent writer. For whatever reason, Dragonball is hugely popular worldwide with and changed the japanese anime market forever and is undeniably one of the biggest reasons anime is popular in america, I don't think that is entirely the art style. Toriyama feels very good at comedy and showing good character when he wants to and has an idea for where the characters are supposed to go. The problem is that most fans, especially most fans that started around Z, were less interested in the comedy and a lot of the characters had gone through their arcs by the start of Z. I personally feel like Mid to late Z (everything after Frieza and Cold arrive on earth) was extremely strong. I'm including Super (GT had legitimately good ideas but I'll grant that the execution of those ideas was mostly pretty lame, some good episodes but mostly lame). It may not help that I actually started with Dragonball and not Z, so comedy was more my thing with Dragonball and I always prefered it being more on the light hearted side.
But he did get kicked out the door just for Vegeta though.. *Even though Piccolo was around for longer and was lot more significant to the series at the time*
Leon レオン *so was krillin in saiyan and freezA saga he was easily more important than piccolo* Tien was more important at one point than krillin Roshi was at one point very very important
He very much is. He's been in the tournament this entire time, but every scene he's been in was spent hyping up Gohan. He hasn't landed a single punch in the entirety of DBS. Buu has gotten better fights than him, and Buu has been in literally one fight.
One thing I loved about the Android Saga was that Goku was surpassed a couple of times. When he wasn't there, Trunks showed up and was strong enough to destroy Freeza in seconds (sure Goku was still stronger but we didn't know at the time) and then Piccolo fused with Kami and became the strongest Z-fighter, then Vegeta and Trunks reached ascended super saiyan and surpassed that, only to be surpassed again by Goku and Gohan, but Gohan was the first to reach super saiyan 2, not Goku. I want a story like that, where Goku isn't always the strongest character on our side.
There's still a couple of years in between. Watch the timeskip in late Dragonball (not Z), Goku's looks changed from "younger than Cell saga Gohan" to EoZ Goten.
Insightful vid! Honestly I wish they dug into the idea of Tenshinhan wanting to be the strongest and a protector Like, he takes the idea of being a martial artist and wanting to reach perfection, knowing its impossible but always striving to become better, become stronger, incredibly seriously, its who he is. Furthermore, he tends to take the deference of the planet very seriously, while also still holding to his ideals of honor and an interest in a challenge. A really neat set of issues and complexes could be introduced from that, from being being frustrated by how casually Goku and Vegeta endanger the planet, by how easily they have surpassed him and him seeking ways to catch up. It'd make him a lot less passive and could serve as a goo in universe 7 call out for some of the stuff that has been brought up by other characters.
I've been saying the best dragon ball movie possible could be the history of piccolo, his ascension to kami, creating the dragon balls, searching for his past, and ending with his epic battle against master roshi. imagine the lore, imagine the loose ends that could be tied up!
Ok, so you can't give Tien a powerup and you can't change his goals of being the strongest, making him look bad in comparison to the other fighters. My solution turn Tien heel (wrestling reference) emphasize Tiens need to be the strongest and use the frustration that the fans who feel that he has been misrepresented and underused to your advantage. He could be a very likeable and sympathetic villain, but then I feel you can't go back to making him a babyface, he would have to play some sort of antihero, or begrudged rival role to give him footing for future stories.
I think this video is proving that super is going down the same issues that really ended up plaguing GT - Goku (and occasionally Vegeta and Trunks) Time. Too much time is dedicated towards Goku and not the side characters in the main plot; though Goku was the maguffin for Z, at least they kept him unavailable for most of the fights until the end when he needed to show up. Having some time away from the godly powers and focusing upon the side characters giving them a chance to grow (im think gohan / piccollo to make their advancement to the top tier of power) is probably whats best for the show right now. Maybe the next arc could be about them trying to find Goku / Vegeta after some schenanigans go down at the end of the tournament to reign in the power creep and let the others develop?
The show was actually about Goku. Given since he is the main protagonist. I mean why can't we have episodes dedicated to characters other than Saiyans? Where is god Tien that was talked about in db. Hell even Chaitzu can be useful not strength wise but his abilities telekinesis and mimicry. I can find thousand different ways to make him useful and a threat. Even Yamcha can be used as a wild card since he was a desert bandit and is kind of representation of a wolf.
Hello MasakoX I love your Dragon ball Discuson and What if videos. Please make a video about at least one of my ideas. Here's few ideas for what if videos: What if Gohan was a fighter as Goku? What if Ginyu switches bodies with Vegeta insted with a frog? What if Gohan turned SSJ when Picollo died in Sayan saga? What if Picollo learned the Kaio-Ken? What if Gohan died on Namek? and What if Vegeta turned SSJ2 when Future Trunks died? And I have few ideas for Dragon ball Discuson. Why did Goku stoped wearing weighted cloes and when? Why Picollo didn't learned the Kaio-Ken? Will Gohan suparsse Goku in The Turnament of Power? I hope so I wrote it correctly. 😃
I would have loved to have Majin Buu develop during the Tournament of Power. As he is, he's carefree and lazy and therefore unreliable in the story, but they could have used this arc to have him learn that he actually has people he cares about and is responsible for their safety. We've seen him get angry and in defence of them, but this could have been taken a step further and have him mature and wisen up to the point where he understands the consequences a lot more, where he is able to protect his family (Hercule and the dog!) by realising the danger rather than do it as a reaction to them getting hurt. That wouldn't in any way change his overall character, as he can still be the same lazy, stupid and greedy but lovable Buu that we've seen, but with him now knowing when to fight seriously. Such wasted potential! But who knows? That might be the direction they are going with. We've seen him fail to help protect his family twice now, perhaps they are saving him for when he is needed the most, in the next arc!
Tien and Krillin were the strongest humans. Tien spent all of his life training and even opened up a dojo. Krillin quit martial arts for a while. Despite this, Krillin got a huge boost while Tien was disrespected and rendered useless in the tournament. Very sloppy writing in my opinion
An interview with Super's producers said that Majin Buu not showing up in the tournament was because Toriyama wanted to do the bait and switch with Frieza. They also want to have more development with Gohan wanting to suprass his limits with Goku. The issue is that they seem to want to do more with some of the characters, but Toriyama has the final say in everything. Even Toyo wanted to give Belmont and Mercanita a romantic relationship for the manga (to mirror Joker/Harley in Batman), but Toriyama said that it would be out of character for an angel to have feelings for a GoD.
It would help if the Tournament of Power weren't such a crowded clusterfuck with eleventy billion fighters even though none but a select few were ever going to have proper stories. Tien Shinhan isn't the only one who got a shit sendoff, not even on the Universe 7 team. Kurinin got kicked out before doing anything remarkable aside from having stinky feet. Roshi is about the only fighter to go out in a blaze of glory. He held off far longer than anyone thought he could and vacated the tournament on his own terms. Realistically speaking, the only fighters who seem to have gone down swinging were, uh... Hit, pretty much. There was that guy with the locket of his wife from Universe 11 that we dwelled on for a little bit, I guess, and you could kind of maybe argue Kaba since he got to go Super Saiyan 2 before being griefed. Califla and Kale to an extent, even if they had to cheat with the Potara earrings. Considering we had 80 fighters and something like half of them are out of the tournament already, most of them got shoved out unceremoniously. Tien Shihan's fate is, in my view, just an extension of that. As to Majin Buu... I don't know. I think the show has something in mind for him. I don't think Buu turning into a skinny dude and uncharacteristically sleeping for months at a time is accidental. Not after we spent a couple of episodes dwelling on it and especially not after we saw Buu go all out in the exhibition match. I do feel Freeza's inclusion in the tournament made for better storytelling than had we had Buu in it, but I also do feel there's more to his story. Then again, I've been wrong before.
