tiktok, clout, & crime 

Couldn't have said it better

the idea that the police wouldn't already know where people went missing/were found and be able to connect patterns too

Yes like for all of the true crime fanatics out there now, or tv shows or movies the police have NO PROBLEM mapping out this stuff. I swear, the Internet should have made people smarter but it’s like the opposite is happening. How can people just believe everything they hear? I’d have thought or hoped most would spot his bullshit from a mile away. Also my friends and I always had guys in cars trying to pick us up after the bar. That may not be what’s happening here but I also don’t believe everyone claiming it’s happened to them so casually and say nothing about this terrifying thing unless the subject comes up. All of this “I heard…” is just rumour or wanting to feel involved most of the time. And spread misinformation like what happened in my small city. We had a couple terrible murders where I live. 3 actually but one was deemed an accident until the exhumed the body. And the woman was never charged even though she’s the one who held the chloroform (or similar drug) rag on her face which killed her. The couple videotaped the girls. The woman was on trial first but then a media blackout was put in place to make sure nothing got out and he got a fair trial. What happened to these girls was horrific but the rumors of what were on the tapes were much more depraved and sick then what happened in real life. Like I cannot imagine the family overhearing stuff that put horror movies to shame about your daughter and it’s not real. Just an asshole looking for attention.

the implication that cops can't make... a map is so galling lmao

I feel like if they actually did bring him in it would be on suspicion because he was mapping all the crimes and keeping detailed lists

yeah, as man I would be too suspicious of why someone was trying to give me a ride. his reasoning doesn't make any sense.

yeah that was such a bad comment. “women are too smart to be kidnapped” ???? bruh

he seems like hes very removed from how “crime” works in general. the video where he said he “cracked the case” ??? this isnt svu

The clear implication that women have gotten used to living in fear and that we're good at avoiding trouble because we're just intrinsically made for this type of lifestyle is... It's Beasts of the Southern Wild level offensive.

EXACTLY, well said

Right he was like "I didn't recognize him so I without hesitation opened it and started talking to him." Like if you're gunna lie do a better job than that lmao. At least say you talked to him through the door or on a intercom.

This is a man who never watched Death Note.

And he nonchalantly gave away where abouts he lived & worked to a massive audience 😬

It's unfair and makes me really sad... 😢

Holy shit agreed

I'm in a few death groups, but we don't air this shit out they post some horrendous stuff in those groups.

When was that? True crime as a genre has existed for decades. It was huge on the radio before the TV era...

@@beetothebop123 while it was always sensationalized, previously there wasn’t such a large group of people trying to involve themselves into the crime. Now everyone believes they are a detective.

same

Damn! I hope you’re okay, it’s really hard to come back from traumatic experiences, I hope you’re doing well. All the best - Elstree.

So sorry you went through that. Not only did you have the trauma of the attempted murder, but so many people wouldn’t just leave you to process and move on as best you could. I can’t even imagine how awful that must’ve been. Thank you for sharing this- more people need to know the impact this shit can have on victims. Best wishes to you.

Oh god i'm so sorry this happened to you! My mother was almost in a mass shooting in an engineering school, like she left right before it happened and the shooter targetted women, and i cant even imagine what it would be like if this had happened today. I hope you're staying safe!

Yeah !! I am taking an intro class to ArcGIS and haven’t even finished it, but I would be able to make a much more professional map than him 😂

I was wondering about this, thanks for your insight.

An afternoon? If they(CPD) are running a live version it should take minutes to get a much better map than that. You don't even need ESRI. QGIS is open source and free and basically does the same thing(without the ArcGIS infrastructure).

Was thinking about this!! And even a private investigator could make a map very easily considering it’s all public record, there’s no reason they’d need him

I was gonna say, there has to be a way to move that from a database to a map in moments, and the most they'd be hiring anyone for that would be data entry from paper or various digital sources into one database -- so, an entry-level data entry job...

there just ... _is smiley face graffiti_ kind of all over.

I love true crime. It feeds that morbid curiosity as well as gives me an idea of what to watch out for in a lot of casea, but I can only listen to the ones that pay respects to the victims and stop making the monsters sound like some book villian. I absolutely HATE it when the person who committed the crime or the murder is talked about in any way other than "this man is horrible and here's why" and the victims are, at best, a second thought...

my mom sorta works with the legal side of cases that are often covered in TC and stuff, and there’s a reason she simply can’t stomach mainstream TC content. When you’re actually forced to listen to families plead and cry for their loved ones and kids back, when you have to sit through the most graphic, uncensored evidence of horrible things being done to people everyday to the point you can’t drink a brand of beverage anymore because it showed up in a child abuse evidence video, when you have to look the perpetrators in their faces and try your best to see them as humans for the sake of the case, etc, content like mainstream TC loses all of its glamour and “omg so spooky!!1!” Charm to it that people love to indulge in for some reason. If only they saw the ugly aftermath of it all rather than gawking at it like empty shock content.

Maybe it’s those sinister “nice guys”?

You can apply this to so many conspiracy theories

It's because conspiracy theory is reductionism, in its core. And reductionism is comfortable because it takes complex explanations and complex problems and blames it all on a single thing. Same thing they're doing here

I think a lot of people get into true crume because of the appeal of being "smarter" than all the victims. Which is a terrible way to look at true crime.

What do you think is going weird?

@@null9546 Lots of stories of cars trying to "give rides" just hanging outside bars and asking people if they need a ride. Two separate people told me it happened to them, one person it happened twice

@@amandaburton5868 Got it. My sister is moving out to Chicago for college and since we dont know anything about the place other than visiting a few times, trying to learn as much as I can to help her out

@@null9546 Chicago is huge, so depending on where in Chicago she is going you could be in a dense urban area or suburbs and everywhere in between

same, iv been hearing some things from friends on the force. something is going on. theyre not saying anything or making any kind of psa (even just about being safe, not any specifics).

And they might have to admit they could be part of the problem.

@@tatiana4050 yup. THIS is why. Much more than anything else.

@@tatiana4050 or alternately (in the case of fascist orgs), they don’t have to admit something far scarier is on the horizon.

Deeply glad I don’t use TikTok and it didn’t exist when I was unmedicated and mania was really bad

In my manic episode I believed I was the reincarnation of the virgin Mary. Luckily my craziness was contained in a discord server where my friends realized my delusions and kept me from doing crazy stuff. Social media is terrifying. I couldn't imagine if I had broadcast my illness to the world

My friend had a similar situation with the Champlain Tower collapse. He went so far, he flew to Florida! He was determined to find evidence that it was a terrorist attack. It was awful to watch. He finally snapped out of the mayhem when he caught Covid. That slowed him down to regain control over sensationalism in the news

I remember having a manic episode when I was teen that came about due to those crazy ass conspiracy theories all over the internet. I genuinely believed that pizzagate scandal back in the 2010s and made myself so fucking paranoid. I remember some of those youtubers who revolved their content around it sharing symbols that we needed to be on the lookout for that allegedly child predators used to identify one another and went nuts looking at anything in my town that might be one of those symbols. Fucked me up pretty damn bad. I had to be pulled away from the internet for a few months just to bring myself back down. Needless to say I unsubscribed all those channels.

mine had me being targeted by and escaping serial killers lol i was a literally a god that could outsmart them

that sounds so scary and I'm glad you got back safely. We all do dumb shit and its so hard to look back on in hindsight, especially if we did the dumbshit under the influence of alcohol or adrenaline or drugs. I was trying to figure out how if I were in a similar situation (as you or the truck driver), it would feel safe. The truck driver could have called the non-emergency police as soon as he saw you were being followed. And then allowed you to borrow his phone to call the police back yourself or call a ride. And then stayed with you however you both felt comfortable until a ride arrived. We don't all get it right but hopefully this thought helps a passerby who sees a stranger in potential distress.

@@kathrynsteller oh wow. that’s such a smart idea!!! i wish i would’ve thought of that back then 😭 thank you for commenting this!!! i also hope it can help someone either in my past position, or someone just trying to help. i didn’t even think about calling the cops or anything i just wanted to get back home & go to sleep. i eventually pressed charges on my ex for a different situation and he got 2 years in jail so i guess that’s something.

I’m glad you’re safe ❤️

@@DiMagnolia thank you!🥹💕

I'm soo glad you're okay!! Please don't be hard on yourself over it. You were most likely in fight or flight and you were surrounded with dangerous options. I'm impressed you were able to think of some possible consequences! The stress hormones our bodies release literally affect our ability to think clearly. We will always wish we handled things better but in reality we handled it to the best of our ability at the time. ❤ I'm so sorry you were with someone that caused you to go through that. You deserve so much better!

And once you get rid of him you're okay to feel "safe" again. You never ever have to worry about it anymore 🤩

And it gives a convenient scapegoat for scarier things like COVID and fascist orgs.

If this is anything it's most likely gang related robberies, so a Boogeyman can still easily be established, just not the one white liberals may prefer

I think this is why so many women go through a true crime phase. While you can learn some stuff about protecting yourself from this kind obsession that’s helpful, you can still end up screwed even if you “follow all of the rules.”

I remember seeing people talking about a young woman's murder and that they didn't agree with who the police had brought in because it was so "boring" compared to their theories. Absolutely insane.

​@Morley That's so messed up. I watch true crime, but I hate it when people turn it into some reality tv spectacle. These are real victims with people who love and care about what happened to them.

Feels very Only Murders in the Building

I think there are tons of people who consume true crime media to cope with trauma or even try to desensitize themselves after a traumatic event. So many people genuinely care about the victims. It can be comforting to feel that others would've cared or helped if they'd known. There's a lot of bonding and support that happens in respectful creators' comment sections on here. I'm biased though, and I do think most of it is exploitative. The food ones are soo upsetting. Can't help but wonder if the craze is as huge in countries with stricter privacy laws, and if it's big here because we're so isolated from each other. Wish there was a way for families to request removal of content about their loved ones or at least remove identifying info. There does also seem to be a right-wing fear-mongering bias in a lot of true crime content, and it's disgusting imo to see it in comments and reviews. Cycle of abuse type beat.

I think some people would rather believe a person is suffering from mental illness that clouds their judgement, than someone is lying for their own gain. Totally agree that the impacts of this aren’t good

agreed. also, obv i can’t say what was rly happening with him, but to me the likelihood someone is manic vs. a liar is just so low for the former in comparison to the latter. even if BD is under-diagnosed, the number of ppl with it or experiencing mania for any reason is so much lower than the number of ppl running around just straight up lying lol.

👆🏽

Yeah, but you can’t then turn real ongoing investigations into a boogie man story just because it’s easier to accept than the potential of other truths. Which is seemingly what this guy has done

Unless it's those damn illegal immigrants!! (/sarcasm)

I think it also has a certain "not in my backyard" factor because it's like "woah i can't believe that this person had terrible things done to them... Not me tho. I'm fine. That wouldn't happen to me" or "that wouldn't happen to me because i know how this happens"

bloody oath mate

He's causing harm. Doing nothing is better than doing shit that causes harm.

I honestly think it’s because so many people on tiktok are YOUNG. Not that only young people will fall for this, but I definitely think people with less education and life experience - and kids fit that description - are more likely to fall for this kind of thing and completely ignore any common sense or argument against it. Especially if they become a fan of the creator and feel they have some personal stake in defending his character. They don’t understand that the “something” he’s doing - spreading bullshit on tiktok - is *at best* nothing, and at worst actively harmful. Also tiktok is just absolutely rife with misinformation in general, which doesn’t help.

similar to how mr beast fans react when you point out the flaws in his charitable actions, it's annoying as hell

Sometimes things need to be left to the professionals. You know, like *active police investigations*

@@caitlynr7295 I agree. I think older people are just as likely to fall for this crap, they’re just not (on average) doing so on TikTok.

totally agree, it reminds me of the Tiffany Ferg video that came out yesterday that made me feel hella uncomfortable. it's so weird seeing people who should be aware completely risk the safety of others for views.

​@@emschlef omg I thought I was going crazy because I was going to comment on it and the video I had just watched wasn't there, and she hadn't said anything about it and I got so confused!

@@emschlefwait, what Tiffany ferg video? Did she spread misinformation? Or was she talking about someone who did?

Reminds me of when they went after Jeffrey Marsh. Which is probably still going on for all I know. Over NOTHING (other than being queer, of course)

@@unouni2548 The comments were overwhelming negative so I'm not surprised.

As a trans guy this scares me so much, it’s something we have to fear all the time and in my old job I just had to go along when dudes thought I was a woman and hit on me because they would turn violent if I tried to explain otherwise. Not having had too surgery while having been on T for a long time it’s difficult because people can’t tell my gender so they get angry often.

❤ sending love and healing to you and your friend 💛🌼

I just will never understand how clueless someone would have to be to take a ride from an absolute stranger. It's beyond well documented many instances where people usually women got kidnapped, assulted and/or murdered. I guess if you're sheltered enough you would never think something like that can happen to you. It is horrible what happen to your friend and people shouldn't have to experience such tragedy to learn the world has many nasty people who will do unthinkable things.

This sadly happens quite a bit. I'm in LA and we've had some crimes like this before but the LAPD keeps it fairly hush hush if I had not been in Stonewall I don't think I would have heard about some of these murders. Also I find out these types of hate crimes are under reported largely because they don't list it as such on the police report and since they're listed usually as the gender they were assigned reading through the reports isn't always clear. There was a whole group investigating this a few years back to try to get accurate numbers. I'd say most of the US probably under reports these crimes along with most sexual assault crimes.

Why were they accepting rides from strangers in the first place? That seems like the first rule of going anywhere: don't get into a stranger's car.

I’m so sorry about your friend.

Seriously his apology was "sorry I got too invested." My guy that was NOT the problem

There is a man on tiktok who has gained a following claiming these killings are a network of serial killers. I know exactly where you are talking about. The river isn't exactly hard to access from the sidewalk

Exactly. The "smiley face killer" is more urban legend than confirmed serial killer, but other people have been covering it for years, and many of them maintain a mindful and respectful coverage for the families who've lost loved ones. It's crazy to me when people only want to sensationalize a story that has impacted real people.

Honestly, seems like a good place to be a serial killer. Lot of murders seemed to go unsolved there

I'm not completely convinced about the whole smiley face killer thing, but yes there's very likely a serial killer or a group going after young black girls here. Its been going and getting pretty much no attention. The men turning up in rivers now i think is separate. Totally separate typical description of those victims but the age/sex/demographic of the men being found is all somewhat similar

My family is from Chicago and for scope, though my great grandmother is alive and I have been to Chicago…I have never met her. It’s understood the neighborhood she lives people can’t just drive in as it’s a territory populated with organized crime groups. My parents literally built their family with the concept, “We will not live in Chicago.” It’s way more complicated then that but that’s all I can or will really say. But we are working class people of color, the dangers this guy just now noticed about highly populated areas of extreme economic disparity…we’ve been well aware.

​@@AnABSOLUTEBarbarian Have you ever been able to talk to her? Like through phone or email? Does she know you exist? Sorry for all the questions, it's just crazy to me that you can't just go and see her 😅

There’s something about tiktok that seems to spawn and propagate wild (relatively, in the grand scheme) low-stakes conspiracies

Bullshit until proven factual is the best way to deal with claims made on TikTok and Twitter. Everything is automatically fake or a lie to me until enough evidence can prove its legitimacy

Same I’ve been off that app for a while now bc of nonsense like this.

I’m quite lucky I’ve never actually been on the app. So when I hear about stuff like this, it’s all new to me.

i went through the same thing with tumblr some years ago. after that experience, it made me very nervous to see people using tiktok as a news source! glad to see you've had a change of heart

I'm with you, was having the same feeling!

in some of his videos he seems super mentally unwell too. Reminds me of those silicone valley guys who go psycho after going down the adderall hole

@@gleebybooer he’s a walking definition of a Silicon Valley tech bro 😖😖

​@@IlanaPinsky He definitely gave off that vibe. Glad I wasn't wrong in my assessment of him.

@@nonamepainter Hey! It's a long story, but here's a TLDR version. He became besties with this girl I used to be friends with and we had a bad falling out. Once I became a content creator, she started hate-watching me and would share my content with him to make fun of me (especially when I was training for a bikini comp). It was obvious to tell she was sharing my IG stories because I can see who watches and he wasn't following me and I saw he was mutuals with her. He would unfollow and follow me all the time, and send me a lot of DMs which may look normal and friendly, but they were totally fake and not genuine. Ran into him once at synagogue because she brought him and he walked over and hugged me pretending to be excited to meet me. I made a tiktok about it but didn't share the screenshots of our convos.

@@TheVirtualObserver You and me both! This whole scandal confirms my experiences with him from 2018 and 2019.

It's literally based on an Urban Legend, but its not to say it happens. Though I think the river bodies might be a stretch we all know the Chicago River has been a dumping ground for awhile people think it'll hide the evidence.

Wait isn't the whole "birds aren't real" conspiracy satire?

As someone who has stumbled out drunk of many popular Chicago bars over the years I cannot even count the amount to gypsy cabs that have tried to give me rides. I think anyone from Chicago could call bs right away same thing with Jesse smollet, no one was running around during the polar vortex buddy.

​@@kieranskyyes it is. The guy who came up with it is a performance artist.

I have issue with your statement "serial killers are not very common and even the ones we know are not confirmable" OK so first, the current FBI crime lab and police estimation is that currently there are 3 - 4,000 active serial killers. That's using the FBI definition of serial murder as two or more murders with a period of rest in between. Secondly "rarely confirmable" is weird wording. If you mean the full extent of someone's body count is often unconfirmed - no. That's true for those who've claimed high numbers (Bundy, Gary Ridgway, Samuel Little) but the most recent data on this is the FBI Crime Lab, 81% of serial killers have a confirmed body count that matches their confession. That's confirmed by DNA. And on top of that the overwhelming majority of serial killers confess, roughly 8 out of ten. They're usually cognisant of that they can't continue with their murders and are happy that they can finally brag about the things they've done, or they're ashamed of it and want it off the conscience (rarer but does happen) If you mean that serial killers are unconfirmed generally - also no. Going back to the same crime lab report, serial murder is one of the strongest evidentiary crimes. There's usually multiple forensic and circumstantial pieces of evidence tying them to their murders, which coupled with their confession leads little room for doubt. I wrote about a serial murder in college, so it's a subject I know too much about. I agree with your points but I think both of the serial killer ones are misinformed.

Right.

Agreed. My girlfriend's family experienced a horrific crime that resulted in a death. They're absolutely traumatized over it and did everything in their power to try and stop the crime. It was too late. There were multiple TikToks made about it and everyone in the comments were absolutely bashing their family for not doing enough, but in reality they didn't know and the US legal system failed them. When they saw these videos, they were absolutely crushed, and it was awful to watch. I hope people who make videos like this realize it opens so many wounds and brings criticism or conspiracies to the mourning family that just want to grieve and recover.

Huh???

@@thatoneperson8154 it was an old tumblr chain where a few posts were made saying that we need to warn markiplier that the la gangs were hunting down content creators as part of a big murder summer jamborie basically.

Lookup “Warn Markiplier” if ur confused

Agree 100%, it was most definitely for marketing and clout

Having to edit to make it more apparent for the bird brains that I agree with the op exactly! just because someone does messed up shit for clout doesn't mean they're manic

@@who__cares__ I think that’s what they’re saying it doesn’t seem like mania it seems calculated

I’d be careful about speculating about other people’s (possible) manic episodes. Everyone’s manic episodes are individual, and present in different severities in different ways. But I do agree that the way he handled the backlash seemed calculated, and that’s something that can be pointed out as bad regardless of if he is/was manic or not.

@@oldshoes5199 isn’t it just as rude then to speculate that he IS having a manic episode?

A dangerous looking woman won't take no for an answer with implications of violence if it's an adamant no? *Off with her head!*

Idk if it’s right to put “mentally ill” on a list alongside “fame and power-seeking.” Like it may be better to keep those in separate sentences so ppl don’t think you’re linking them? I hope that makes sense

@@VultureSkins he just seems strung out on something lol

I love the careful thought she gives to sentences that say something sensitive that could be misconstrued. She's a class act.

That's what I was thinking! Like his daydream of being on a detective show was becoming true with this. He was playing a character. Treated it as an escape room type of thing

Agreed. I think people just don’t want to admit that when you get drunk you might do stupid things (like swimming in a large body of water). But the idea of being able to blame a boogeyman is somehow an easier way of coping, I guess?

Also, Ken does seem to have an affinity for nose candy. No judgment on what people want to do recreationally, but it can make people spiral as we have seen him do.

Hearing this kind of thing all the time & it’s heartbreaking. I am a white, straight Australian dude so things like this are a consistent albeit tragic reminder of how good I have it - despite any personal struggles, ultimately I’m very lucky. I hope your transition has left you happier & more content, mate (: Will always be an extremely fucking loud ally lol

Same lol

He was because after his first 2 videos he turned it into a serial killer story and keeps promoting his app

Yep it sucks but it definitely happens. You go out enough, you probably will experience it.

I mean this dude is “traditionally “ desirable Are you desirable? If not Then we’re comparing apples to tomatoes 😅

I just watched that, it's so good! 😊

She did such a great job. It had so many tricky aspects to it. I’m kinda pissed there’s only 2 likes on your comment.

Also, re: others in other comments saying it seems too calculated to be mania: I wouldn’t be so sure. Many people who are manic, or even psychotic, can seem completely lucid. Intelligence, narcissism (as a trait), and so on can really impact how a breakdown appears. Also, people CAN be both assholes & liars AND manic. I just see too many little tells on the neurological side, as far as an increase in loose connections and other things.

Agree. When the second clip played of him talking about asking for a promotion, I thought, "he has the same affect as the first video." That's...not a typical reaction to those different situations.

Hallucinations also aren't unknown with bipolar and this seems way more probable than his deliberately lying, and all these things seem like prime territory for that--people he interacts with alone, especially late at night, that it seems like other people in his life have not met, often in ways that don't leave evidence for later corroboration.

Oh ues, those manic episodes where he gets brand deals and shills for his app. The man is a conman. He played you

Same with me and that was like 30 years ago. It was not popular. But I read them 1) To learn how to be safe. If someone survived how did they do It. 2)I found the entire process of how they caught the killer so interesting. It seems people now treat it as a fun puzzle to solve but it’s ridiculous because the police don’t release everything. So it’s like they just make stuff up. It’s disgusting because the victims were loved by family, friends, partners. They were funny, hated rom-com movies, had favorite bands, a dog they loved, hated their ears etc. They were all of us. Not just bodies or victims. How does this become “fun”.

@@phoenixgirl70 Bailey Sarian is a prime example of exploiting these cases

Did I miss anything? I watched Tiffany's video and it didn't seem stalker-y at all. Just a cute thing she posted about on tiktok, which inadvertently blew up and caused some of her followers to try and find out which gym she went to, who the other gym members were, etc. without her permission. The only iffy thing about the video was when she denied that it was all about a possible romantic crush even though she literally used the word ''crush'' on tiktok. But maybe I just don't know everything about the story.

​@@Iroh12345 im also not a fan of that vid but i hesitate to call it stalking. her asking the front desk for information was just weird but she did own up to it in the vid and that was a good thing. i think that we all know that true crime loving people will take any calls to action to solve a mystery way too far and its weird that she posted this whimsical mystery on there for her followers to help her solve and then was surprised when people went too far with it. it also rubbed people the wrong way when she went on about astrology but i think they are missing her semi joking tone and laughing at herself. thats this random strangers take.

Tiffany made a follow up community post addressing the feedback and thanking everyone for their constructive comments. She gets why the take didn't go over well and agrees that she was biased because she's friends with Kath. I agree nothing crazy stood out to me while watching but it's also fair to point out that people's privacy and boundaries are important to respect.

Drunk people drowning in rivers is a tale as old as human civilization

Oh and a lot of people, especially men, have this whole "I got GHBd and robbed!" line and frequently they were just blackout drunk... and also robbed