Tilt Trim Repair Yamaha F150 Suzuki DF150 Evinrude Etec Trim Seal Replacement 

Maria, awesome to hear. Hope you're back on the water!

At the end of video when you’re removing air raising and lowering motor, on the way up you can hear a creaking sound. Is this lack of grease where the two lower pistons meet resting points on bracket? Or should I worry?

Nice

Awesome, glad to hear

Awesome, thats what its all about, and glad to hear. Thanks!

Thanks, hopefully you're back up and running!

Thanks! These units are pretty user friendly as far as most repairs go. Definitely would recommend you skip the shop if it is something you want to tackle on your own.

Good to hear we were able to help out. Let us know if you have other questions!

Given your description of the relay/trim motor, I would isolate the trim motor and relay and test them. If the trim motor is original to the motor from 2004, that is a very long service life, especially if primary use is in salt water. Overall, given the impact, I would definitely want to do some diagnostic tear down to inspect the internals. Running aground can definitely cause some issues with the hydraulics.

Thanks and great to hear good results

Mine does the same thing! Let me know if you ever find an answer. Thanks.

​@@scottmichael3745what was the cause?

@@wazup3333 Ended up needing a rebuild. New rams and seals fixed it.

Nice. That seems like a more cost effective solution than buying a new piston sub assembly

Were on it. More content will be posted very soon. Thanks!

If all of your electrical controls, wiring switches, trim motor, relay etc are in good shape, and you hear the trim motor working and get no movement or goes up but not down, it's very common to have a leak or bad seal/o-ring somewhere causing the malfunction. Especially on the Showa. The tilt cylinder will go to full tilt up, then sticks, won't come down. Alot of the time you can let out the manual release and bring it down just a bit, run the screw back in and the unit will go back to working for a time.

Thanks Alex!

The tilt wiper seal on mine that has no metal ring is for a 200ox66 could that be why mine came without a metal spring? It’s like a spring in the seals lower unit oil seals like on prop shaft and upper seals? If so mine has no metal in it at all. However I bought my seal kit from KIT KING USA not Yamaha OEM packaging. All I could find.

Thanks!

Thanks, we are editing a video with some of the aspects you mention. The next one features a leaking gear pump housing with seized mounting bolts, corroded and leaking internal O-rings, losing fluid and pressure through the back of the housing. As for hydraulic schematics, some of the Yamaha shop manuals provide some details, can't remember if the shop manual for the F150 does or not.

@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631

Tyler, the Yamaha service manual LIT-18616-02-51 has a good section on overhauling this model SHOWA power tilt and trim unit. The Suzuki service manual 99500-96J10-01E has a GREAT section on the same PTT unit, including schematics of oil flow through the PTT in up and another one for down, accompanied by an excellent verbal explanation of what is going on. This information along with detailed part drawings on the Yamaha parts dealers websites is very helpful in understanding what each circuit does (i.e. check valves, shuttle valves, filters...). I call this "owning" the system. Not necessary for everyone, but satisfying. The manuals are about $100 each, well worth the investment for the DIYer. Same for the special service tools you offer. Well done.

Great video , it’s pro one

Thanks very much!

Gareth, thanks for the feedback. I will definitely take this into account with our upcoming videos!

Many Thanks!

Awesome. Rebuilds on these Showa units are usually very reliable and not too expensive. With few exceptions, every single 2002 to 2012 Yamaha F115 and F150, Suzuki DF150/175 and Evinrude, Johnson V6, going back into the 90's, that I have seen has had at least one re-seal. Also, starting to see large numbers of SHO VF250LA from 2010ish onward in the shop for same.

Good to hear, thank you!

Hi Ray, I suspect this one is headed for another tear down. The 2 most common possibilities are 1) a check valve/ O-rings issue in the junction between the gear pump housing and the main trim tilt cylinders housing. There is a check valve with a retaining pin holding in a tiny ball bearing it is extremely easy for the pin to fall out and the tiny bearing to wander off during tear down and repair and/or 2) air trapped beneath the back up ring in the tilt cylinder. Option 2 is much easier to check and requires no disassembly. If you are positive that the air is bled out of the unit, it likely time to take it apart and inspect the internal parts.

@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 Tyler, thank you for that feedback. For your DIY readers, the check valve assembly you mention is items 26, 27, 28, and 29 in the F150TLRC parts breakdown for Power Tilt Trim Assy 1 diagram,: O-rings 64E-43869-00-00, pin 64E-4381G-00-00, ball 6E5-43858-00-00, and valve seat 64E-4382G-00-00. On another note: I had a terrible time separating the gear pump assembly from the trim and tilt housing due to the stainless steel screws being deeply fused into the aluminum. All but 1 broke off in the housing despite my best efforts with heat and hammer. The head of long screw item 26 (64E-43879-11-00) twisted off leaving the body of the screw stuck hard in the the gear pump assembly, preventing me from separating the two pieces! I had to pry the two sections apart 1/8" by wedging a gasket scraper between the flanges so that I could cut the bolt with a hacksaw blade, separate the parts, drive the long bolt out of the gear pump housing, and drill out/helicoil the threaded section that was stuck in the trim and tilt housing. This took hours hours and all of the stubborn bolt removal strategies in my trick bag (heat, tapping, soaking in PB Blaster, left hand drills, EasyOuts...) In this process I distorted the mating surface between the two flanges, which led to a tiny oil leak, which led to my hand filing the surfaces with a fine mill file and hand lapping, and eventually applying a thin film of Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker in the deformed area. This was my last resort which I did not like, but it worked. The unit lifting up on reverse is an assembly issue, as you noted. I may be looking for a rebuildable core, or have to fork over $2,400 for a new unit. If you know of a good core let me know. I am going back into my wounded unit to find the assembly issue. Thank you again. Suggestions are welcome. The PTT is 18 years old, and works in the salt most of the time.

Hi Terry, the sound you're hearing is usually small amounts of air getting forced through tight apertures/valves within the housing. A small amount of this is not unusual even for new systems, but when its making a lot of noise, it usually means there's quite a few bubbles rattling around inside the unit. If it is affecting the actuation of the pistons and slowing down the movement in general it's not a bad idea to see if the unit will take some fluid at the reservoir and see if you can bleed some air out.

How do you know there's air in the system?

Given your description there are a couple of possibilities. Questions: Does the trim motor sound like it's changing pitch and bogging down when the motor hits the trim rams? When the trim rams are in play, are you hearing air bubbles pushing through the valves? If the trim motor changes pitch (almost always to a lower pitch) take a hammer, or something softer, and tap the side of the trim motor while you are mashing the trim switch. If the trim motor responds to the hammer by behaving normally, even if only for a second or two, stop with the hammer, raise the motor all the way and deploy the service locks because the trim motor is in intermittent failure. With trim motors, intermittent failure goes to full failure rapidly, but completely at random. Trapped air makes a very distinctive noise when it is forced through the valves and apertures in the housing. Trapped air is a possibility, but if you just tore the unit down and resealed/bleed, trapped air seems like lower probability. I'm out of commission tomorrow but back on Friday, call me if needed

Awesome to hear Captain!

All Good! May your repairs go swiftly and effectively!

This particular unit may be the most widely used model in the outboard world! I have seen it on several manufacturers over the years.

the cap I'm working on at the 28 min mark +/- a few seconds is the tilt cap and the outer/wiper seal on the tilt cap does have the flat facing down into the cylinder. For the trim caps, the flat side of the inner seal should face the sky on final assembly. and the trim cap wipers will only install one way.

The last bit of the video shows the initial fill and bleed on the rack and then the last of bleed with unit mounted into the transom bracket Trim motor removal: Usually if you can remove the tilt pin, you can swing the unit forward just far enough to access the forward trim motor housing screws, all depends on the exact model of the motor and transom bracket housing the unit. If removing the tilt pin doesnt give enough range of motion, I usually remove the lower mount pin holding in the entire assembly which will free it up to move aft and upwards. The mounting hardware M6 bolts fastening the trim motor to the gear pump housing are routinely seized, if the are showing signs of being seized, I remove the entire unit and lock it into shop rack or a vice.

The back bolts on the trim motor are usually not accessible without removing the pin that connects the tilt rod into the midsection. Once the motor is on the service locks, remove the tilt pin and the entire unit will be able to rotate forward just enough to allow a 10mm socket on an extension to reach the trim motor bolts. Once the motor is on the service locks, usually it is not too difficult to lift it up a bit by lifting at the skeg or forward edge of the gear case. Most of the engine weight is over the transom and it is much easier to move. It is absolutely essential that the full weight of the engine is supported by either the service locks or hydraulic engine hoist of something else string enough to support the entire weight of the engine, since after the tilt pin is removed, the tilt trim unit itself can not safely support the weight of the engine and it is extremely dangerous in an uncontrolled lift/support.

ATF is a good substitute. I still find ATF in about a third of the units I work on.

Thanks, I'm relieved and very happy. I'm bought my boat 38 years ago and always loved it. So brought to Philippines and fixing everything to run like new. Thanks again

We are producing a update video for the F225 3.3L V6 right now and it should be up in the next few days.

Normally they have to be ordered separately. If it is a Yamaha, you can go to yamahaoutboards.com > owner resources>outboard parts> then enter your serial or a model number and model year and you'll get detailed schematics for every single part in any yamaha, thats the easiest way to find part numbers. Then you can order through boats.net or other Yamaha dealer desk.

Hi Nico, Yes, the back up ring is seated with the Manual Release screw opened all the way, this will allow enough fluid to be pushed out of the tilt cylinder to allow the ring to actually seat into the main cylinder wall, without introducing air below the ring, which is difficult to remove once the ring is set. I set the ring depth by placing the ring as deep as it will go by hand, the goal being to clear the cylinder threads with the big O-ring on the Back UP Ring ( it usually stops at the bottom the cylinder threads because the big O-ring is starting to seal into the tilt cylinder side wall, and displacing the fluid in the tilt cylinder once the O-ring seats requires more force). Once the ring is set by hand, I will use the actual Tilt Piston/Tilt Rod and the weight of the motor midsection (alignment is critical! ) to press the ring the rest of the way in until the midsection is resting on the service locks, at which point I lift the tilt cylinder end cap, add fluid to the top of the cylinder, always a bit of overflow, but reduces the volume of air to almost nothing. Set the end cap and turn it in. If you try to set the Back-Up Ring with the Manual Release Locked down, it will go nowhere.

Hi, all of our tools are available through our website outboardst.com/ , and the wrench kit used in this video, and which fits all Yamaha F150 from 2003 to 2012, Yamaha F115 from 2003 to 2014, Yamaha F350, Suzuki DF150, DF175, DF200 as well as pretty much all Johnson Evinrude V4 and V6 in history is available here: outboardst.com/product/ost-0023-universal-ost-0014-35mm-spanner-kit/

I have the same question: what would cause the F150TLRC to suddenly start kicking up in a hard reverse?

@matthewpatz5472, Did you ever solve the engine raising up in reverse problem? If so please let me know what you found, and what engine you have. I had the same issue after completely overhauling my power trim and tilt and found I had a valve seat assembly (between the oil pump and the main housing) in backwards. Ray Brown1954

Hi Aaron, are you still having a problem with the unit leaking fluid?

Hi Shadrick, very sorry for the late reply. Are you still working on this unit?

As far as I know there is no special tool yet for the manual release screw on the Showa unit. I have used an impact driver and hammer in the past with some success, but this is a high risk method, because the impact driver can shear the tabs off the manual release screw pretty easily, and then it is really stuck. If the unit is air locked, it may be worth a try to open the reservoir fill and inject fluid into the reservoir while holding up on the trim switch, often the trim motor will pull enough fluid into the housing to generate pressure which will get the unit moving

Hi Mike, sorry for the delay, the pads on the ends of the trim rods usually are threaded in and should be able to unscrew and remove.

Hi Richard, This problem can be caused by air trapped in the cylinders or one of the check valves in the housing is malfunctioning. Are you still having this problem?

O another thought..it was stored in down position. When I first hit th button sounded like allittle air then went up. The lake I'm on is getting really low so I had to raise it all th way to shove it off th lift. Thanks again for the great video..I went threw probably 12 BS videos before I found yours...I will be buying the correct tools from you! To add to 50k I already have.🤣

Hi Rob, From your description, it sounds like your unit has damaged gear pump housing O-rings. These O-rings create the seal between the Gear Pump Housing/trim motor on the port side of the trim unit and the main Tilt Trim Housing/Cylinders. These O-rings tend to become brittle and eventually accumulate enough scale and debris to degrade the seal between the two housings. The biggest red-flags for this type of failure are 1) the unit is losing ability to build internal pressure, even with no visible external leaks on the rods/caps, actuation is sluggish and the unit will stick at full Tilt-Up Position and may only come down by releasing the manual release. Unit is noisy, air jetting around, oily sheen on the water but no leaks from the cylinder end caps. 2) This Step REQUIRES the motor to be at full tilt-up, on service locks. You put your hand behind the main housing, behind the bracket zinc/lower tilt housing and the boat transom, reach up, your hand comes back covered in trim fluid and oily residue. When these O-rings fail, they will leak down the back side of the unit. We are a couple days out from publishing a video showing the Gear Pump housing re-seal on a Showa Unit. It is a bit more involved than the cylinder/end cap re-seal, but when done correctly, you won't be going back into the gear pump housing for another decade.

Thanks for your Quick reply. I'm going to give it another look today as I ran out of time yesterday. I'll be looking forward to your next repair video. Thanks again Rob

Just went and checked..your probably right. Finger tips were wet after reaching up behind unit..not grungy but wet. As to be expected with new leak. Also I looked at my end caps..only 4 holes in mine. I will reach out for the proper spanner tool when I'm ready to fix it. I'm probably going to do it all at 1 time. Thanks again. Rob

F150TLRC very sluggish on the trim, tilt working well, system topped off with oil, primed and vented...Pump sounded sluggish even with straight wired to battery. Engine kicks up out of the water on hard reverse. Removed PTT motor and disassembled. Found the motor full of black hydraulic oil oil (seal failure) and brushes worn to 1/8". Replaced motor with aftermarket from DB Electric due to cost of a new Yamaha factory motor/brushes and seals to repair the motor. This solved the trim issue. Don't yet know about the engine kicking up in reverse issue.

Simon, sorry, I don't the part numbers for Honda, usually if I'm working on Honda/Showa, I just use Yamaha parts. The dimensions are identical.

I look at the 6 week waitlist as plenty of time to slowly tear down your unit and proceed to repair. I have a hard time with Yamaha manuals leaving some parts out of their schematics, and they are the best I have worked with as far as their literature goes. Suzuki manuals are not even close. That said, when I am faced with an unfamiliar job or new type of motor etc, I usually just start slowly carefully taking stuff apart and taking a few thousand pics along the way for re-assembly.

You can bleed the remaining air out of the housing by letting the manual release screw out and dropping the motor (slowly, the screw determines the rate of fall) all the way down, tighten the screw back in and trim the motor up to full tilt up, deploy the service locks and again let out the screw to seat the motor on the service locks. Then remove the reservoir cap, carefully because it can occasionally have some aerated fluid waiting to vent off. in the event that dry air vents out, its usually audible, I'd repeat the process a couple times until it stops venting. I will also let the screw out, bring the motor down all the way and let is sit with the manual release all the way open for anywhere from one to 24 hours and let the air slowly work its way through the system and back into the reservoir. Then close off the valve and vent the reservoir at tilt up. One way or another, you can usually vent off the trapped air. There should be no leaks if the unit has good seals and the gear pump housing o-rings are in good shape.

@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 Thank you and appreciate it! I did order a seal kit off amazon which was close to perfect but the outside diameter for the gear pump housing o-rings were shy. I went ahead and ordered some OEM ones (suzuki 48588-94900) and will replace when they get here. Right now I'm on attempt #4 or 5 for manual release down to the floor for extended amount of time but still having a bit of air in the system. One thing to note is that when I'm using the tilt motor to bring the motor down I begin to hear a loud hissing noise once I begin to travel across the trim rams. Could be normal but I wanted to let you know.

Hi Tyler, I replaced the x5 gear pump housing o-rings and maybe 1/4 cup of fluid drained out during the process. Would anyone doing the job need to refill manually or will the system replace as we step through the bleeding process? Thanks, Matt

Stephen, can you email me a pic of the area in question? tyler@outboardst.com Thanks!

Hi John, first I would check the manual release to make sure that it is in the locked position. This issue can be caused by contamination and debris obstructing one of the check valves in the unit and this can be a sign that the unit has lost fluid and has air in it. Either way, it probably needs some work

Can you still work on the assembly without having to release the manual bolt? And if so will the pressure in the hydraulics be de pressurized if you slowly purge the air out while removing the tilt rod cap?

You can still work on the unit with a seized manual release, there may be a bit of bakc pressure on the caps, but usually the pressure vent off pretty quick as the caps are unthreaded. It may be a bit harder to bleed the unit, but it is fully able to be resealed with a stuck manual release.

Hi Gene, Happy New Year and I'm very sorry for the late reply. Looks like you found us though. Thanks very much for trusting us with your investment!

Matt, The manual release screw on Showa units is trouble. They are known for seizing and the slotted tabs are likely to shear off even if you were to heat it up a bit. Sounds like the unit has taken on air along with major fluid loss. If the outer seals are in good shape, unit likely has blown gear pump housing o-rings, #2 most common failure point for Showa units behind blown end cap seals. Check the back side of the unit for fluid leakage. As for getting the hydraulics to actuate, and given the manual release is likely seized, step 1 is try to add fluid with a pistol oiler at the fluid fill port/reservoir while simultaneously pressing "up" on the trim switch. This process will let the gear pump prime up more quickly and should get the tilt piston moving. If you can get the unit to actuate to full tilt up, deploy the service locks, and at that point its likely that the entire trim unit needs to come off and go to the bench for a look. I have used impact drivers with slotted tip in the past to force the manual release to move with success, but this method is an absolute last resort, and anyone attempting this route needs to understand that the main housing and manual release screw can be permanently damaged if things go sideways. I would try a ratchet with slotted screw tip first, after soaking with penetrating oil for a day or 3. If it is absolutely locked into place, its usually still possible to repair and re-seal the unit, but re-fill and bleed may be more complicated.

@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 Thankyou so much for responding. Great news, I was able to finally get the manual release screw to back off and was able to get the cylinders to accurate and was able to get the fill hole to take oil and worked it up and down a couple of times and it is working good as new. Thanks again for the breakdown and put together.

The "down relief orifice" stack up on my F150TLRC is right to left: valve seat, ball, pin, as you pointed out in one of your replies. That is, the ball is captured inside the valve seat by the pin. The pin is a loose fit, as you noted. The Yamaha parts illustration is a bit misleading, probably because it would be difficult to show this stack up. Correct stack up, right to left: 64E-4382G-00-00 SEAT, 6E5-43858-00-00 BALL, 64E-4381G-00-00 PIN. Thank you for your help with this.

Ray, sorry for the delay. Looking at this asap when I'm back in the shop

Tyler, the check valve I have been referring to is not the "down relief check valve (Yamaha lingo). The valve described above has no formal Yamaha name. It is listed only as "valve seat" , "check ball", "pin". If you look at the Suzuki explanation of this PTT hydraulic circuit you will see this check valve/orifice called "pump room orifice". What ever it is called, its function in the "UP" command is to allow return oil off of the top of the trim cylinders to return to the pump housing. That is, the check ball is off of it's seat allowing oil flow to the pump housing. On the "DOWN" command the check ball is seated, forcing return oil from the bottom of both the tilt and the trim cylinders back to the reservoir, and not to the oil pump housing. That is the short story. There is a lot more going on in the circuit. In looking back at my disassembly photos I realized that I had this "pump room orifice" check valve in backward. The check ball valve seat should be facing the gear oil pump housing. When the check ball is seated no oil should flow into the pump housing. I had it the other way around. My PTT problems are very slow trim up and trim down, and the engine rising up on a hard reverse. I will let you know how my re-re-reassembly goes!

@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 See my note below. Thank you for your help on this. I have spent a lot of time grinding away on this circuit with help from you and boscoe99 over at another forum. I sure do appreciate the help understanding this PTT unit. I am not fully there, but getting closer!

Ray brown, did you fix this issue? I’m having the same now. I replaced all my trim and tilt seals and now my engine kicks up in reverse. It also sags down when the trim is close to being fully down. Did you replace the valve seat, ball, and pin?

Oscar, lo siento el retraso en contestarle. Pues, tenemos a todo en nuestro sitio outboardst.com. SI tienes preguntas o quieres discutir algo, favor de contactarme

I can try. What is the year/model/horsepower of the motor?

This video was actually shot on a Suzuki DF175. They use this Showa model on DF150 and I believe the DF200 as well. This model is millimeter for millimeter identical with the Yamaha Showa models between F115 and F150 (2002 to 2012/13) as well as Yamaha SHO V6 4 Stroke as well as the older Johnson Evinrudes V4 and up and all Etec 90HP and up. I have used Evinrude parts on the Yamaha and Suzuki parts as well.

I have not spent much time in Texas, so unfortunately I don't really have a good recommendation for South Texas. South Carolina I can help you

Tito, Sorry about the delay. This sounds like there is air in the cylinders. We have the fill bleed sequence in the FAQ section of our website. Definitely need to check fluid levels and add fluid and bleed if needed.

Harbor Freight nitryl can't remember the thickness, I think they're 5 or 6 mil. They're a good reasonably priced option for working with fuel and solvents

Hi Mr Montoya, you have a couple of options with the F225 trim unit. We have a video for the tilt trim unit on your motor, here is the link: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-D95b7dEXjYQ.html . Your unit has 38mm diameter on center across the caps for both trim and tilt, so you can use one wrench for all three caps. The wrench for the trim tilt caps on this unit is OST-0013, 38mm X 4mm. However, the tilt rod and piston sub-assembly require another wrench, OST-0003 Tilt Piston Spanner, to be able to remove the piston sub-assembly from the tilt rod. We also sell these wrenches in a 2 piece kit which is currently on sale on our website. Link outboardst.com/product/tilt-trim-rebuilt-kit/ Let us know if we can assist!

If this job comes to my shop, normally looking anywhere from $500 to $800 parts and labor depending on what is actually causing the failure and parts costs etc.

En français merci