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Tim Ballard uproar reveals divisions between LDS Church and its far-right members 

The Salt Lake Tribune
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When a spokesperson for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints offered a stinging rebuke of Tim Ballard, a fellow member and the charismatic founder of Operation Underground Railroad, an anti-human-trafficking organization, his defenders went ballistic.
They were especially incensed when the statement said M. Russell Ballard, acting president of the faith’s Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, disavowed Tim Ballard, who is no relation, and condemned the activist for using the senior apostle’s name in his fundraising.
It couldn’t have come from the church they love, these Tim Ballard devotees reasoned. They had to believe that it was some kind of fake news, or worse, a deep conspiracy.
Latter-day Saint historian Benjamin Park, though, had no trouble believing the church’s condemnation of OUR’s founder. He sees in Tim Ballard’s impressive following a link to many other far-right causes and conspiracy theories - and even possible schism.
Park, whose new book, “American Zion: A New History of Mormonism,” is due out in January, explores the larger issues he has observed within Tim Ballard’s movement and the implications of extreme conservative politics for the church.

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26 сен 2023

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Комментарии : 213   
@boysrus61
@boysrus61 9 месяцев назад
Has the church made a statement about Jodi Hilderbrandt or Ruby Franke being "morally unacceptable"? What about the former Stake President David McConkie who was arrested for SA the end of last month. Was he released as President 5 years early because the church knew what he did and quietly let him go so he wouldn't be the Stake President when it came out? Did the church publicly call him "morally unacceptable" or was he not high profile enough?
@atlas2164
@atlas2164 9 месяцев назад
And they should have -- but lets keep in mind the statement about Tim Ballard was in response to a request for comment, it wasn't a press release that it initiated out of nowhere.
@Coopsoldman
@Coopsoldman 9 месяцев назад
As a member from Australia, I can understand the difference. I know who Tim Ballard is but I've got no idea who the other people are. If this is what it sounds like it may be and he has been doing some of this stuff (and the more I read and hear the more it looks like it is the case) then I can completely understand why it has gone down like this. Having said that, I still think he needs to be acknowledged and respected for the good he has done and will probably continue to do. But I don't think this is a bad thing the church getting out in front of this given the reach this movie and this guy has internationally. Remember guys, the church is in a lot more places than Utah
@cynthiaaccord
@cynthiaaccord 9 месяцев назад
@@Coopsoldman I’m a Mormon. We should believe the Scriptures, not man. And the Scriptures testify the Mormon Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ on Earth. But if something is taught that can't be verified by Scripture, think twice about believing it. I understand why so many people are leaving the church. Many false doctrines exist causing countless RU-vid videos mocking Mormonism. False doctrines like grandpa gods, (God the Father has a father) Mormons becoming gods of their own planets, Adam helped create the earth, Christ and Satan are brothers, God the Father has rarely spoken in Scripture, The African Americans were bad in the pre-existence; all of which no Scripture verifies. And each Sunday the Sacrament is tainted because only Elders and Priests can administer but the Deacons prepare/administer, and the Teachers pass/administer the Sacrament. (D&C 20:57) And the Lord says, He’s bound when we do what He says but if not there is no promise. (D&C 82:10) …that the scriptures might be fulfilled; for ye shall do according to that which is written. (D&C 24:14) And we wonder why there’s depression, mental illness and other unspeakable events among us? And many are leaving the church because if you don't fit the mold the church leaders sculpture you're not a part of their click. Mormons believe the church leaders over Scripture. The zealous believers have the church leaders in mind with everything thing they think say and feel testifying to impress others how much they believe the current church leaders are God-inspired. I’ve talked with church members who think they have some kind of spiritual connection to these men (church leaders) even claiming these men verify in their talks personal revelations. But the Scriptures reveal the church leaders are the problem with the entire Planet. For example, In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 we are informed of a person revealed as the son of perdition. This son of perdition sits in the temple of God making himself God or above all that is called God. Therefore, if the Mormon Church is the only true church then the only person 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 could be talking about is the current Mormon prophet. For what other church is the one and only true Church with temples? And Joseph Smith taught a son of perdition can only be a church member holding all the rights of God's priesthood and using the priesthood against God, as did Judas. Therefore, who else other than the current Mormon prophet could the apostle Paul be speaking of? It's as plain as the nose on a face. And God in the Doctrine and Covenants tells us about the current church leaders and how displeased He is saying the end of this world will begin among them. (D&C 112:23-26) and the 12 blaspheme His name in the mist of His house. God Himself tells us these men are heinous. Joseph Smith taught the false doctrine of grandpa gods (God the Father has a father) not over the pulpit as a prophet but as a sermon at a funeral, which should not be taken as Scripture fulfilling God’s sayings to Paul, And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (2 Thessalonians 2:11) That they might be damned who believed not the truth….(2Thessalonians 2:12) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7) (D&C 112:23-26) And the current Mormon prophet is the son of perdition because he has all the saints believing God our Heavenly Father was created by a being greater than Himself but Scripture says there is no greater than our God. (Hebrews 6:13) Therefore, the son of perdition has all the saints breaking the first commandment God gave Moses, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Does it make sense to reasonable thinking that God would command we have no other gods before Him but really there are? Does He not want us to know this? Why is it a secret? There’s a reason He commanded to have no other gods before Him. Because by believing in false grandpa gods the saints believe our God is an infinitely lesser God putting Lucifer before God. And the moment we put a god before our God, our God becomes an infinitely lesser God. Not only that, our God also becomes a liar. He and the Scriptures says He is the greatest of all. He and the Scriptures says He is the Most High God. He and the Scriptures say He created all things. And in the Scriptures He says over and over there are no gods beside Him. (Isaiah 44:6) (Isaiah 44:8) (Isaiah 45:22) (Hebrews 6:13) Therefore, the saints believing there are gods before Him is the saints believing the son of perdition or the current Mormon prophet over the Scriptures and calling God and the Scriptures a lie. And Isaiah warns, Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20) The saints call the son of perdition (President Nelson) good and good (Jesus Christ) evil. Because President Nelson says Christ and His Father are liars and fosters the false doctrines. Peter, John, Paul, Alma, Nephi, Lehi, Jacob and all the canonized prophets would not allow false doctrines from the Adversary but President Nelson does. President Nelson says Christ did not create all things. (John 1:1-3) Matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed the scientists say therefore the son of perdition or President Nelson says the grandpa gods created these calling Christ and the Scriptures a lie. Well did Abinadi warn the wicked king Noah and his priests, Have ye taught this people that they should observe to do all these things for to keep these commandments? (Mosiah 13:25) I say unto you, Nay; for if ye had, the Lord would not have caused me to come forth and to prophesy evil concerning this people. (Mosiah 13:26) And what is the commandment Abinadi taught that the people do not obey? Thou shalt have no other God before me. (Mosiah 12:35) Know ye not that I speak the truth? Yea, ye know that I speak the truth; and you ought to tremble before God. (Mosiah 12:30) And it is a false doctrine to say God our Heavenly Father has rarely spoke to us in Scripture. (3 Nephi 27:26), (3 Nephi 24:1). (2 Nephi 31:20), (2 Nephi 31:11) (D&C 49:20) Beware of the doctrine of the scribes and Pharisees, which are today’ Church leaders. (Matthew 16:6-12) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Mathew 23:15)
@paulgreco5419
@paulgreco5419 9 месяцев назад
@@Coopsoldman I’m a Mormon. We should believe the Scriptures, not man. And the Scriptures testify the Mormon Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ on Earth. But if something is taught that can't be verified by Scripture, think twice about believing it. I understand why so many people are leaving the church. Many false doctrines exist causing countless RU-vid videos mocking Mormonism. False doctrines like grandpa gods, (God the Father has a father) Mormons becoming gods of their own planets, Adam helped create the earth, Christ and Satan are brothers, God the Father has rarely spoken in Scripture, The African Americans were bad in the pre-existence; all of which no Scripture verifies. And each Sunday the Sacrament is tainted because only Elders and Priests can administer but the Deacons prepare/administer, and the Teachers pass/administer the Sacrament. (D&C 20:57) And the Lord says, He’s bound when we do what He says but if not there is no promise. (D&C 82:10) …that the scriptures might be fulfilled; for ye shall do according to that which is written. (D&C 24:14) And we wonder why there’s depression, mental illness and other unspeakable events among us? And many are leaving the church because if you don't fit the mold the church leaders sculpture you're not a part of their click. Mormons believe the church leaders over Scripture. The zealous believers have the church leaders in mind with everything thing they think say and feel testifying to impress others how much they believe the current church leaders are God-inspired. I’ve talked with church members who think they have some kind of spiritual connection to these men (church leaders) even claiming these men verify in their talks personal revelations. But the Scriptures reveal the church leaders are the problem with the entire Planet. For example, In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 we are informed of a person revealed as the son of perdition. This son of perdition sits in the temple of God making himself God or above all that is called God. Therefore, if the Mormon Church is the only true church then the only person 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 could be talking about is the current Mormon prophet. For what other church is the one and only true Church with temples? And Joseph Smith taught a son of perdition can only be a church member holding all the rights of God's priesthood and using the priesthood against God, as did Judas. Therefore, who else other than the current Mormon prophet could the apostle Paul be speaking of? It's as plain as the nose on a face. And God in the Doctrine and Covenants tells us about the current church leaders and how displeased He is saying the end of this world will begin among them. (D&C 112:23-26) and the 12 blaspheme His name in the mist of His house. God Himself tells us these men are heinous. Joseph Smith taught the false doctrine of grandpa gods (God the Father has a father) not over the pulpit as a prophet but as a sermon at a funeral, which should not be taken as Scripture fulfilling God’s sayings to Paul, And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (2 Thessalonians 2:11) That they might be damned who believed not the truth….(2Thessalonians 2:12) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7) (D&C 112:23-26) And the current Mormon prophet is the son of perdition because he has all the saints believing God our Heavenly Father was created by a being greater than Himself but Scripture says there is no greater than our God. (Hebrews 6:13) Therefore, the son of perdition has all the saints breaking the first commandment God gave Moses, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Does it make sense to reasonable thinking that God would command we have no other gods before Him but really there are? Does He not want us to know this? Why is it a secret? There’s a reason He commanded to have no other gods before Him. Because by believing in false grandpa gods the saints believe our God is an infinitely lesser God putting Lucifer before God. And the moment we put a god before our God, our God becomes an infinitely lesser God. Not only that, our God also becomes a liar. He and the Scriptures says He is the greatest of all. He and the Scriptures says He is the Most High God. He and the Scriptures say He created all things. And in the Scriptures He says over and over there are no gods beside Him. (Isaiah 44:6) (Isaiah 44:8) (Isaiah 45:22) (Hebrews 6:13) Therefore, the saints believing there are gods before Him is the saints believing the son of perdition or the current Mormon prophet over the Scriptures and calling God and the Scriptures a lie. And Isaiah warns, Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20) The saints call the son of perdition (President Nelson) good and good (Jesus Christ) evil. Because President Nelson says Christ and His Father are liars and fosters the false doctrines. Peter, John, Paul, Alma, Nephi, Lehi, Jacob and all the canonized prophets would not allow false doctrines from the Adversary but President Nelson does. President Nelson says Christ did not create all things. (John 1:1-3) Matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed the scientists say therefore the son of perdition or President Nelson says the grandpa gods created these calling Christ and the Scriptures a lie. Well did Abinadi warn the wicked king Noah and his priests, Have ye taught this people that they should observe to do all these things for to keep these commandments? (Mosiah 13:25) I say unto you, Nay; for if ye had, the Lord would not have caused me to come forth and to prophesy evil concerning this people. (Mosiah 13:26) And what is the commandment Abinadi taught that the people do not obey? Thou shalt have no other God before me. (Mosiah 12:35) Know ye not that I speak the truth? Yea, ye know that I speak the truth; and you ought to tremble before God. (Mosiah 12:30) And it is a false doctrine to say God our Heavenly Father has rarely spoke to us in Scripture. (3 Nephi 27:26), (3 Nephi 24:1). (2 Nephi 31:20), (2 Nephi 31:11) (D&C 49:20) Beware of the doctrine of the scribes and Pharisees, which are today’ Church leaders. (Matthew 16:6-12) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Mathew 23:15)
@conorwalden
@conorwalden 9 месяцев назад
@@atlas2164 I’m a Mormon. We should believe the Scriptures, not man. And the Scriptures testify the Mormon Church is the only true Church of Jesus Christ on Earth. But if something is taught that can't be verified by Scripture, think twice about believing it. I understand why so many people are leaving the church. Many false doctrines exist causing countless RU-vid videos mocking Mormonism. False doctrines like grandpa gods, (God the Father has a father) Mormons becoming gods of their own planets, Adam helped create the earth, Christ and Satan are brothers, God the Father has rarely spoken in Scripture, The African Americans were bad in the pre-existence; all of which no Scripture verifies. And each Sunday the Sacrament is tainted because only Elders and Priests can administer but the Deacons prepare/administer, and the Teachers pass/administer the Sacrament. (D&C 20:57) And the Lord says, He’s bound when we do what He says but if not there is no promise. (D&C 82:10) …that the scriptures might be fulfilled; for ye shall do according to that which is written. (D&C 24:14) And we wonder why there’s depression, mental illness and other unspeakable events among us? And many are leaving the church because if you don't fit the mold the church leaders sculpture you're not a part of their click. Mormons believe the church leaders over Scripture. The zealous believers have the church leaders in mind with everything thing they think say and feel testifying to impress others how much they believe the current church leaders are God-inspired. I’ve talked with church members who think they have some kind of spiritual connection to these men (church leaders) even claiming these men verify in their talks personal revelations. But the Scriptures reveal the church leaders are the problem with the entire Planet. For example, In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 we are informed of a person revealed as the son of perdition. This son of perdition sits in the temple of God making himself God or above all that is called God. Therefore, if the Mormon Church is the only true church then the only person 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 could be talking about is the current Mormon prophet. For what other church is the one and only true Church with temples? And Joseph Smith taught a son of perdition can only be a church member holding all the rights of God's priesthood and using the priesthood against God, as did Judas. Therefore, who else other than the current Mormon prophet could the apostle Paul be speaking of? It's as plain as the nose on a face. And God in the Doctrine and Covenants tells us about the current church leaders and how displeased He is saying the end of this world will begin among them. (D&C 112:23-26) and the 12 blaspheme His name in the mist of His house. God Himself tells us these men are heinous. Joseph Smith taught the false doctrine of grandpa gods (God the Father has a father) not over the pulpit as a prophet but as a sermon at a funeral, which should not be taken as Scripture fulfilling God’s sayings to Paul, And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (2 Thessalonians 2:11) That they might be damned who believed not the truth….(2Thessalonians 2:12) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Revelation 13:7) (D&C 112:23-26) And the current Mormon prophet is the son of perdition because he has all the saints believing God our Heavenly Father was created by a being greater than Himself but Scripture says there is no greater than our God. (Hebrews 6:13) Therefore, the son of perdition has all the saints breaking the first commandment God gave Moses, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Does it make sense to reasonable thinking that God would command we have no other gods before Him but really there are? Does He not want us to know this? Why is it a secret? There’s a reason He commanded to have no other gods before Him. Because by believing in false grandpa gods the saints believe our God is an infinitely lesser God putting Lucifer before God. And the moment we put a god before our God, our God becomes an infinitely lesser God. Not only that, our God also becomes a liar. He and the Scriptures says He is the greatest of all. He and the Scriptures says He is the Most High God. He and the Scriptures say He created all things. And in the Scriptures He says over and over there are no gods beside Him. (Isaiah 44:6) (Isaiah 44:8) (Isaiah 45:22) (Hebrews 6:13) Therefore, the saints believing there are gods before Him is the saints believing the son of perdition or the current Mormon prophet over the Scriptures and calling God and the Scriptures a lie. And Isaiah warns, Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20) The saints call the son of perdition (President Nelson) good and good (Jesus Christ) evil. Because President Nelson says Christ and His Father are liars and fosters the false doctrines. Peter, John, Paul, Alma, Nephi, Lehi, Jacob and all the canonized prophets would not allow false doctrines from the Adversary but President Nelson does. President Nelson says Christ did not create all things. (John 1:1-3) Matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed the scientists say therefore the son of perdition or President Nelson says the grandpa gods created these calling Christ and the Scriptures a lie. Well did Abinadi warn the wicked king Noah and his priests, Have ye taught this people that they should observe to do all these things for to keep these commandments? (Mosiah 13:25) I say unto you, Nay; for if ye had, the Lord would not have caused me to come forth and to prophesy evil concerning this people. (Mosiah 13:26) And what is the commandment Abinadi taught that the people do not obey? Thou shalt have no other God before me. (Mosiah 12:35) Know ye not that I speak the truth? Yea, ye know that I speak the truth; and you ought to tremble before God. (Mosiah 12:30) And it is a false doctrine to say God our Heavenly Father has rarely spoke to us in Scripture. (3 Nephi 27:26), (3 Nephi 24:1). (2 Nephi 31:20), (2 Nephi 31:11) (D&C 49:20) Beware of the doctrine of the scribes and Pharisees, which are today’ Church leaders. (Matthew 16:6-12) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Mathew 23:15)
@Seaker01
@Seaker01 9 месяцев назад
I was made dummber after listining to this intervew.
@michellestansberry9101
@michellestansberry9101 9 месяцев назад
Me too!
@iDad7276
@iDad7276 8 месяцев назад
100%. Total morons running this Poop Cast
@sdfotodude
@sdfotodude 7 месяцев назад
Remember intentional ignorance is a choice
@andrewreed4216
@andrewreed4216 9 месяцев назад
Hmmm.... i just choice to follow christ (follow the prophet only if its in line with christs teachings not thier own doctrines). I think we have to think for ourselves, i didnt get jabbed and im healther now than all those that did. Im not sure for this issue, it appears there's lots of human mistakes happening amoungst some positives, I think any church will fail us, but christ won't. I hope we all can hold onto good whatever that is.
@jasonsnyder8341
@jasonsnyder8341 5 месяцев назад
Nailed it
@kasikauvaka6845
@kasikauvaka6845 9 месяцев назад
Sitting back and just watching everything unfold 👀
@icecreamladydriver1606
@icecreamladydriver1606 7 месяцев назад
So does it seem a bit odd that Elder Ballard died shortly after all this came to light.
@ellenadams7354
@ellenadams7354 6 месяцев назад
God's Will be Done! 🙏God Bless you 🛐
@matthewmitchell68
@matthewmitchell68 7 месяцев назад
This is new that the Salt Lake Tribune are now openly questioning church. Never would have happened 20 years ago
@rkn2800
@rkn2800 9 месяцев назад
My confidence in Church leadership is waning. I question the judgement of Elder Ballard and for some years now the decisions of Church leaders. Life-long member.
@radybay9088
@radybay9088 9 месяцев назад
I’m guessing that he made a lot of money from his investment in OUR.
@rkn2800
@rkn2800 9 месяцев назад
@@radybay9088 Same. Like he’s afraid about getting/having been caught, nothing to do with having done a moral, honest thng to help the hungry and poor or even the trafficked. Just so disappointed and disturbed. If he was a prophet, seer and revelator he would not have been fooled like this.
@derrickcox7761
@derrickcox7761 9 месяцев назад
If you believe the twisted news of the Tribune, maybe you are looking for a way out of your worldly trials. No one is forcing you to stay in the Church.
@rkn2800
@rkn2800 9 месяцев назад
@@derrickcox7761 Cool. Thanks for that.
@kasikauvaka6845
@kasikauvaka6845 9 месяцев назад
@@derrickcox7761typical TBM response. I use to love giving that same response to everyone who questioned the church when I was a TBM.
@lylarose2696
@lylarose2696 9 месяцев назад
They are afraid of Ballard. Why?
@marquitaarmstrong399
@marquitaarmstrong399 9 месяцев назад
Because they were walking hand in glove with a fraud. Stuff hits the fan.
@ericnelson9100
@ericnelson9100 7 месяцев назад
​@marquitaarmstrong399 Tim Ballard is this generation's Paul Dunn. The difference is that in this case federal crimes were committed, and there's just no getting around that! Sean Reyes is also going down too based on how he illegally shut down the investigation. These 2 fraudsters will b sharing a jail cell in Oz.
@Mikelray-df9my
@Mikelray-df9my 9 месяцев назад
Im uncomfortable with critical thinking.
@Berglar2007
@Berglar2007 9 месяцев назад
Recognition is the first step to repentance.
@mdellertson
@mdellertson 9 месяцев назад
The church would gladly welcome you.
@marquitaarmstrong399
@marquitaarmstrong399 9 месяцев назад
And you are just the type of member the church wants..
@cynthiahall9297
@cynthiahall9297 9 месяцев назад
They stopped being a church when they started investing tithing into their own personal interests. Any interest earned off tithing is still tithing. Tithing wasn’t paid for the leaders to invest and take the gravy.
@whenpigsfly3271
@whenpigsfly3271 9 месяцев назад
Many people don't realize that the church's turning point came during Harold B Lee's tenure in the early '70s. The corporate complexion changed and meetings were consolidated into one day and more importantly, wards, instead of forwarding their operational surplus to the presidency, they were required to forward ALL receipts and then beg to get some back to satisfy operational needs. This measure destroyed the cohesive atmosphere of a ward's sense of community and lowered the quality of the church experience. This was the moment when church membership began to decline. It will continue to decline because the religious experience the church provides no longer matches the cost involved. The church has made itself more of a nuisance.
@atlas2164
@atlas2164 9 месяцев назад
Right? They used our Tithes to buy Apple and Microsoft shares and sold it for-profit and didn't even pay capital gains tax, I want my cut
@cynthiahall9297
@cynthiahall9297 9 месяцев назад
@@atlas2164 me too! There is just too many shady dealings!
@bunttheripple
@bunttheripple 9 месяцев назад
Do you have any evidence whatsoever that the Leaders of the Church are taking "the gravy"? I think not.
@marquitaarmstrong399
@marquitaarmstrong399 9 месяцев назад
@@atlas2164 Don't forget that lovely shopping center in Salt Lake. Bailing out Beneficial Life. The tons of land in Florida...the beat goes on. And the piled of money Ensign Peak has paid out to victims of pedophilia. The..hey how much time do you have?..?
@jesusstudentbrett
@jesusstudentbrett 9 месяцев назад
You keep getting it wrong. The church said "morally unacceptable" not "morally indefensable". 06:14
@karimsonsafehold9233
@karimsonsafehold9233 9 месяцев назад
27:00 the person talking is projecting. His historical ideological perspective requires him to claim Tim Ballard is arrogant and making ridiculous arguments. If the argument was weak, he could out argue it but instead he focuses on Ballard's ideological character. Because he finds it personally offensive that Ballard's argument would be correct, as that makes his historical work, the ridiculous one. Guess how many times experts have been proven wrong since 2020? He is feeling the burn and fear here.
@marquitaarmstrong399
@marquitaarmstrong399 9 месяцев назад
Child please try living one day without that right wing wax stuck in your ears. Pluck it out and let truth roar in once in a while....
@marquitaarmstrong399
@marquitaarmstrong399 9 месяцев назад
Guess how long apologists have been covering up the keystone of the church is lies greed and fraud????
@karimsonsafehold9233
@karimsonsafehold9233 9 месяцев назад
come yet out of babylon, all ye saints.
@Kalama_Llama_King_Kong
@Kalama_Llama_King_Kong 9 месяцев назад
So hlad youre covering this. As an exmormon, I've come to realize so many if my believing loved ones actually do know some of my pain. They too are sad about losing their church. But, they are unable to put it on the leadership. They have promised not to criticize leaders.
@rickstuart7641
@rickstuart7641 9 месяцев назад
I am not a fan of Tim Ballard but this was a grave misjudgment, since the church was cozy with him when the message was positive. They could have just ignored this issue and let the story come out without becoming the story. I also take exception to you labelling far right like it is a disease. President Benson was way more far right than what you are talking about. The church 40 years ago was very right leaning. Now it is left leaning, maybe not enough for some, while trying to stay centrist. Some members who held to the views of Kimball or Benson did not move left with the church and culture. They were taught one thing and now are expected to change their views to be with the times, i.e. woke. The divide in the church has been a long time coming. One group wants to throw out or diminish the Book of Mormon (and the Bible) and it's teachings (see how Come Follow Me ignores the Isaiah chapters), or at least cast doubt on their authenticity and provenance. They also teach that Joseph Smith had affairs and married a 14 year old and stole other men's wives. Just read mainstream LDS scholars works on Joseph. They continually mar him. The other side holds to the traditional church and society, loves Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. You mock the heartlanders as if they are all right wing kooks. Joseph Smith was a heartlander since that is where he said the Book of Mormon took place. If Joseph said it was there well for me that is case settled, even if BYU is in love with trips to Mexico. The real issue is that members on the left do not tend to believe the Book of Mormon or the Bible are a literal history and sacred teachings. On the right their are among some the tendency to go to far but please do not use such a wide brush to diminish a viewpoint you do not believe in or understand.
@ron3537
@ron3537 9 месяцев назад
Since leaving my former political party to a full fledged Independent... Oh the peace! BTW, I could never buy into the Tim ballard stuff either, although human trafficking is obviously a serious issue.
@kellyreilly-robinson2130
@kellyreilly-robinson2130 9 месяцев назад
@@ron3537using our own beautiful minds. We choose what we believe to be right and true. We do not need to argue just demand accountability for anyone who harms and covers up.
@sisknothinbutruth2684
@sisknothinbutruth2684 9 месяцев назад
I appreciate this comment!
@rickstuart7641
@rickstuart7641 9 месяцев назад
@@sisknothinbutruth2684 Thanks for letting me know. It is a crazy world
@karimsonsafehold9233
@karimsonsafehold9233 9 месяцев назад
there is no way gordon bowen, child abuser, can ignore tim ballard, who is huntnig child rapists. Come on. Morally indefensible there. Also 1830 goel substack confirms TIm Ballard's excommunciation.
@kentjensen5216
@kentjensen5216 9 месяцев назад
As an ex Mormon, I find this piece to be troubling, but not surprising. The church has always been a breeding ground for the weird and preposterous offshoots of its doctrine. I remember a Mormon telling me, with all sincerity, that black men who had been ordained to the Mormon priesthood (prior to the church lifting the ban) had gone craze, just like the swine in the New Testament story. Also, the church has always produced quasi intellectuals, like Cleon Skousen, who are long on historical nonsense and completely devoid of facts to support their folderol. So, Tim Ballard is just another iteration of this pseudo history. Of course, every time I read a story like this I'm reminded of Voltaire's statement that religion was invented when the first fool met the first con man.
@morpheusartstudio4666
@morpheusartstudio4666 9 месяцев назад
😂😂😂 you gotta love Voltaire
@patricianoel7782
@patricianoel7782 9 месяцев назад
I recommend “RoughStone Rolling “ by Richard Bushman. It’s in Deseret Bookstores. Members need to educate themselves about the LDS Church before making a judgement, Also “CES Letter” by Jeremy Runnels
@Cocoon68
@Cocoon68 9 месяцев назад
@@patricianoel7782and No Man Knows my History and In Sacred loneliness and the churches Gospel Topics Essays even though they water them down
@patricianoel7782
@patricianoel7782 9 месяцев назад
@@Cocoon68 Yes. I’m waiting for “ In Sacred Loneliness” to be delivered on Monday. I’ve read pretty much everything since I’ve been retired these past 2 years. Press on, sister.
@Cocoon68
@Cocoon68 9 месяцев назад
@@patricianoel7782 two months ago I had zero idea about the history of the church and have always felt deep in my gut that polygamy was wrong and that it did not come from God.. no matter how it got packaged or wrapped it was dead wrong! Then went down the rabbit hole and ran onto the gospel topics essays and the CES letter and then it just led me from one truth to the next and even though it was shocking and then disbelief and then anger I know that now we have been deceived and I can’t unsee what I see!
@kellybrandon1179
@kellybrandon1179 8 месяцев назад
Corporate America's subterranean world
@jbmac4889
@jbmac4889 9 месяцев назад
Jesus said we are to follow Him, and there is no other way to get to His Father. We don't need the churches. We need the Holy Spirit, And that is something we can only get when we reject the teaching of this world, and follow the teachings of those who were really ordained by God. The prophets and the apostles. ALL of them. They wrote their own books, They were not ordained by God to do so. Why would God need them. God already chose the people He wanted to write His word down. They did it so well that with the Holy Spirit you can discern all the things we need to return to our Heavenly Father.
@schrecksekunde2118
@schrecksekunde2118 9 месяцев назад
thanks for pointing out what's so obviously corrupt in the scheme of that dude and his friends
@mrtubeyou77
@mrtubeyou77 8 месяцев назад
When and where did M. Russell Ballard make the alleged statement? Please provide the reference.
@deborafrench2316
@deborafrench2316 9 месяцев назад
Whoops, looks like I stumbled on troll land. My apologies.
@Veevslav1
@Veevslav1 9 месяцев назад
I am here for the trolls. I am trying to be like Jesus Christ and he pissed off the trolls in his day by speaking truth that was offensive to their culture.
@slvrsrfr92
@slvrsrfr92 9 месяцев назад
It's interesting to see people go from worshipping their religious leaders and religious ideas to worshipping their political leaders and ideas.
@bendyrland7213
@bendyrland7213 9 месяцев назад
Politics has become a religion.
@fellow_servant_jamesk8303
@fellow_servant_jamesk8303 9 месяцев назад
Very Solid point.
@jameseverett9037
@jameseverett9037 9 месяцев назад
@@bendyrland7213 I never understood the difference. They're all the same issues at their root. Politics is about what laws to legislate, and whether 'politics' should delve into anything else, like controlling what you can eat, or smoke. Religion is about what is right and wrong, which is the basis of our laws, or should be.
@bonnierobinson8684
@bonnierobinson8684 8 месяцев назад
But the church encourages us to follow the laws of our leaders, so are all these Trump supporters who follow Trump not in good standing? Trump would make a horrible Mormon thanks to what he continues to sow hate in America.
@suzh4187
@suzh4187 6 месяцев назад
The Bible says all will be revealed-doesn’t say you’re going to like it!! We’re not supposed to worship idols…money or people
@SpiritGuide11111
@SpiritGuide11111 9 месяцев назад
Perfect Title. Mormon Land. OMG. Drama and gossip is that cities life to point out what is wrong with anyone who tries to do good. I say goodbye and good riddance to this judgement of a mass amount of people who love rating over people
@patricianoel7782
@patricianoel7782 9 месяцев назад
I hope members will read “The CES LETTER “ by Jeremy Runnels.
@danielsorensen4540
@danielsorensen4540 9 месяцев назад
Haha you mean the letter that has been debunked multiple times?
@patricianoel7782
@patricianoel7782 9 месяцев назад
@@danielsorensen4540 👍 yup that’s the one
@danielsorensen4540
@danielsorensen4540 9 месяцев назад
@@patricianoel7782 it definitely is a dumb book. Lots of flaws and errors
@dannyutah3859
@dannyutah3859 9 месяцев назад
Mr Daniel Sorerenson, please enlighten us the readers by providing facts ( not your biased opinion) as to how the CES letter has been debunked.,,
@Veevslav1
@Veevslav1 9 месяцев назад
@@dannyutah3859 I would for him, but I do not have the crayons or time to make it understandable to you. But this can happen when someone drops a Gish Gallop to try and win an argument. FYI, the CES letter is a GISH gallop. If you do not know what that is, there is this tool called the "INTERNET" that you can use to research it. If after researching you cannot understand still, that is a cognitive issue that would take an act of God to fix and you have made him your enemy through your actions in life. FYI, I am trying to be like Jesus... HE MADE A WHIP AND USED IT!!!
@Latter-dailyDigest
@Latter-dailyDigest 8 месяцев назад
Thanks MormonLand!!
@amysherk
@amysherk 9 месяцев назад
Corrupt.
@erpthompsonqueen9130
@erpthompsonqueen9130 8 месяцев назад
Thank you. Watching and Listening from Alaska. 🤔
@truthbetold23762
@truthbetold23762 9 месяцев назад
🤮🤮🤮🤮
@user-yr9lt7dz8k
@user-yr9lt7dz8k 9 месяцев назад
​@@rubymojo266they're *** the real cultists are lamestream Christianity(Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodoxy and Reformationist Protestantism) who lack the sacred name of JESUS CHRIST and the apostolic keys and authority of God's true priesthood power.
@glendathegoodwitch6987
@glendathegoodwitch6987 9 месяцев назад
60 seconds in, and I see you can read!
@craiglebaron3733
@craiglebaron3733 8 месяцев назад
I hope Tim Ballard runs and wins the Senate seat vacated by twitt Romney....we support you Tim. I hope the church has a good response to this Saga
@sdfotodude
@sdfotodude 7 месяцев назад
Your discernment is severely lacking. I'm guessing you voted for Trump as well.
@suzh4187
@suzh4187 6 месяцев назад
Maybe Mittens is behind trashing the man’s reputation
@suzh4187
@suzh4187 6 месяцев назад
@@sdfotodudePerfect. Did you vote for the oatmeal-brained nightmare that’s destroying the entire country?
@sdfotodude
@sdfotodude 6 месяцев назад
@@suzh4187 Tim did a good enough job of that to get fired from OUR and get ex'd by his cult.
@ME-rk4ws
@ME-rk4ws 7 месяцев назад
😂 around 29:00 " That's a million dollar question"😂 No I think not! It's a Billion Dollar Question 😂
@suzh4187
@suzh4187 6 месяцев назад
He uses the word institution 😵‍💫 a lot; not community.
@derrickcox7761
@derrickcox7761 9 месяцев назад
When the Tribune continues to disrespect the request by the LDS Church to use the proper name of the church instead of "Mormon", you know where their hearts really are.
@whenpigsfly3271
@whenpigsfly3271 9 месяцев назад
Nelson's edict to refer to the church in its long form is idiotic.
@dannyutah3859
@dannyutah3859 9 месяцев назад
The Mormon faith propagated the word “Mormon” for many years until they didn’t. So now the church shies away from that word…Why? Yet another example of a make believe church continually changing with the times. I’m an Exmo and definitely not a right winger, but at least I am fair enough to realize that the right wingers in the church are at least trying to stay true to the original teachings, not the constantly changing doctrine that the church puts out today. Mormon indeed!
@derrickcox7761
@derrickcox7761 9 месяцев назад
@@dannyutah3859 No, they didn't "propagate" it. Their enemies insisted on using it, and there was little to do about it until the U.S. finally stopped the physical persecutions. Anti-LDS continue to propagate it to this day. For the last century the Church has had a general authority or apostle reiterate to members at general conference, that we are not Mormons, but we are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. As for the so-called "right wingers". We are not a Church of extremes, but of moderation in all things. being humble and meek. The Church is flexible to make changes according to social changes. It does not change the fundamental doctrine. If certain individuals are extreme, that is a separate issue.
@derrickcox7761
@derrickcox7761 9 месяцев назад
@@whenpigsfly3271 That was for newspapers, first introductions, and so forth. He recommended shorter versions in more casual situations. Apparently you didn't hear or read the whole talk.
@whenpigsfly3271
@whenpigsfly3271 9 месяцев назад
@derrickcox7761 - No, I saw the talk. Respectfully, you'd have to be living in a cave to not know what a Mormon is. An entire state, and a large one, is indelibly associated with the Mormons. They proselyte all over the world... and you're going to argue on behalf of Nelson of the efficacy of the long form? The fact that there is nothing to be gained by it is what makes it silly .
@marilynwatene1480
@marilynwatene1480 3 месяца назад
This sounds like a far left hit piece and not in my comfort zone, cringy to listen to, in my opinion. I don't think much of Benjamin Parks assessment of Ballard. It is plainly lacking substance and quite obviously biased. I have several of Ballard's works on my bookshelf and can tell you they are NOT FAR FETCHED and those who have any discernment can realize that, if they use those faculties that God has given us. I have also watched the movie the Sound of Freedom. Ballard's contributions and efforts to unmask this scourge and attack against our children are heroic. These people are offering their far left OPINIONS and I don't believe have done much research to back it up. I say judge Ballard by his fruits, and from what I can see (and from the books I have to judge by) his fruits are brilliant. (And by the way backed up by research.) Now, if he has done any terrible deed, instead of repeating a rumor (and regurgitating it over and over) come up with some proof or shut up. If you and others can do this to Ballard, think what can be done to you or any of us...?
@Mk101T
@Mk101T Месяц назад
If you can tell people to shut up on behalf of Ballard ... then of course they can tell Ballard to shut up. Which is pretty much all this is . As far as comfort zones go ... maybe you should re-think the "Mainstream" mormonism type. And seek out a more insulated life inside the "Cultish" forms of it .
@atlas2164
@atlas2164 9 месяцев назад
The far-right people can't understand that condemning a guy for sexual impropriety is not in any way a condemnation of any good that this person did in his efforts to end human trafficking.
@DavidSmith-cm9rq
@DavidSmith-cm9rq 9 месяцев назад
what did Tim do?? you don''t know or is fake news good enough.
@bendyrland7213
@bendyrland7213 9 месяцев назад
Agreed, being a creep and doing good are not mutually exclusive.
@Veevslav1
@Veevslav1 9 месяцев назад
No, I am not far right, I am logical. I believe in innocent until proven guilty. If there is not evidence but accusations, then the person is innocent.
@atlas2164
@atlas2164 9 месяцев назад
Accusations from 5 parties plus an organization asking him to leave, plus an investigation by Davis County Attornry and a statement by the LDS church. YES innocent until proven guilty but this is not one isolated accusation. HUGE difference.@@Veevslav1
@Veevslav1
@Veevslav1 9 месяцев назад
@@atlas2164 You do not realize how asinine you sound. You try to defend what can only be called allegations of accusations. We do not know who is making these statements. We are simply told there are 7 people making statements or accusations against Tim Ballard. As to the investigation by Davis County Attorney... What charges were brought? A statement from the LDS church is lacking any details as well and they actively lied in the statement. Your belief is "tell enough lies and it will become truth" or "throw enough shit at the wall and something will stick", do you realize how dishonest and stupid those approaches are? Anyone looking for truth is content to wait and analyze without a knee jerk guilty until proven innocent which is what you advocate for with your justifications.
@sonsofliberty3
@sonsofliberty3 7 месяцев назад
The historian giving his opinion sounds very biased. Thank you to the narrator for bringing up the points that there was support from Pres Ballard to Tim cause. Perhaps it was wrong for Tim to publicly place an LDS church leader on such a hot political stage. And I am sure a mass amount of lies and propaganda fell upon the churches ears while looking into the claims against Tim. But, these statements do not cause a lack of faith in the leadership concerning the actual work of the Lord on the earth. The Lord reminds us that they are only men acting in His name when doing His work. Politics is not His work. However, the modern liberals, of whom the historian seems to fit in with, probably would not be considered one of Captain Moroni's supporters. He sounds like someone who would have been deceived by the Kings Men as they took over government positions and sought to do away with individual liberty in the name of public safety and government convenience.
@egonaigner4757
@egonaigner4757 9 месяцев назад
I have mixed feelings about Mormon Land's investigative style. There's a clear pattern with apologists and once you see and hear it, you can't unsee or un-hear it. Witness, for example, how apologists tend to have a kind of pigeon-toed tone in their voice, the faux pauses as if to suggest they're being thoughtful, and adorable stutter with words as if to tip-toe carefully and thoughtfully into a controversial topic. The reality, while they present what might seem like hard-hitting, brave questions, the tenacity of their questions aren't as sincere as we're led to believe. They'll dip their toe into controversy, then morph quickly into something else, without actually excavating and holding the facts as self-evident. The logic of apologists is wildly disconnected from the preponderance of evidence to their contrary. Their tone would try to sell sincerity and truth-seeking, but in truth, Members are addicted to hearing that ever-present infantilization of others and ourselves. Mrs. Stack does this in every conversation; in this episode, she sounds especially girlish and timid in her inflections, as if to sell a trustworthy seeker of truth. Is it any wonder members are hurt so tenderly when their beliefs are challenged or criticized? For that reason, among many others, I'm dubious about ML's journalism. It has the fragrance of news but the essence of apology and smallness. At the same time, I empathize with Peggy and her co-host's impossible dilemma - how to ask brave questions while not being kicked out by our abusive religion, of which (almost criminally) our entire identity and worth is attached. As I close my testimony with this: I just want to bear witness that any organization that can't tolerate criticism is an unhealthy organization. It's science. But in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, it doesn't apply. We're a culture wholly unaware of itself, drunk in pseudo-righteousness. I love the Church - at least the healthy parts of it. But I can no longer stand by and watch all the tomfoolery we see at every turn. Tim isn't a rogue actor. He's a role-player the Church has groomed (and thousands of Mormon business people like him) to do exactly what he did. Name drop, leverage influence, and work their deceptions deeply hidden in the shadows - like shell companies to obscure the true nature and order of things. The Church and Tim Ballard two sides of the same coin.
@akathecatlady
@akathecatlady 9 месяцев назад
Thank you for this beautiful testimony.
@Mk101T
@Mk101T Месяц назад
I must say you did an excellent job of demonstrating an apologist tone while talking about ... what I guess you are trying to classify as the "Mainstream" apologists ?
@apathetic6309
@apathetic6309 9 месяцев назад
Had to stop at 20 min mark...so revolting
@bunttheripple
@bunttheripple 9 месяцев назад
🤢🤮
@thomasthezaugg8374
@thomasthezaugg8374 9 месяцев назад
I tend to believe Joseph was killed by a secret combination under Brigham Young. I've also read View of the Hebrews, and am aware of some of the other source material for the B of M. I like the book of Mormon, despite it being reworked war of 1812 propaganda, but the difference between Jospehs Church and Brighams church are pretty stark. Reading Wife No. 19 by Eliza Young (1876) is a pretty eyeopening read. Weird how the church released a damage control novel with the same title that redirectes focus onto the FLDS folks.
@richardrobison
@richardrobison 9 месяцев назад
Define far right wing please
@1MrJwest
@1MrJwest 9 месяцев назад
Normal God fearing patriots.
@atlas2164
@atlas2164 9 месяцев назад
Not at all. I am a combat veteran and RM, I would consider myself a patriot. But there is a world of difference between a reasonable conservative and a far-right extremist@@1MrJwest
@cc3822
@cc3822 9 месяцев назад
​ You can't argue with a far-left wacko! It's the same as arguing with the far right.
@JakobPGrau
@JakobPGrau 9 месяцев назад
Apparently, it means being anti-pedo. Count me in!
@atlas2164
@atlas2164 9 месяцев назад
I think we're all anti-pedo, Some of us are just *also* anti-sexual assault as well@@JakobPGrau
@PrincessOPD_Utah
@PrincessOPD_Utah 9 месяцев назад
🐱
@jamybailey
@jamybailey 9 месяцев назад
🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿👁👄👁
@kahina937
@kahina937 9 месяцев назад
I didn't like that the church stated they never supported Tim or OUR. Yes, we can argue that legally they did not support him but de facto what was it really? It's not a question of legality, but a morality. Clearly the church provided some endorsement to this cause. It would be better if they just said that they were fooled by Tim Ballard like everybody else. I don't know why the church has such a problem as coming across as a vulnerable organization. It's like they are scared that leadership of the church will be portrayed as weak and not credible if they allowed TB and OUR to deceive them. So it's better to go in denial and hide the evidence. This is not a mature approach. After all, the founding prophet Joseph Smith was fooled as well. And even in the Scriptures we can find examples of prophets being deceived. I don't see a problem with acknowledging mistakes. If we don't acknowledge our shortcomings, we will inevitably face with more problems as a church.
@karimsonsafehold9233
@karimsonsafehold9233 9 месяцев назад
morally unacceptable and indefensible behavior by LDSatans ruling over ldsaints
@akathecatlady
@akathecatlady 9 месяцев назад
That would be difficult for the prophets because they would have to acknowledge that they aren't prophets,seers, and revelators and that the church was built on lies. They are seeing the outcome of their past playing out in real time.
@sdfotodude
@sdfotodude 7 месяцев назад
The church is pathological Liars. Currently they are lying about the fact that they gave all of the tithing records to o u r of the wealthy donors. This church has been pathologically lying since 1830. It is part of its DNA
@suzh4187
@suzh4187 6 месяцев назад
What part of Ballard rescuing 100’s of ABUSED CHILDREN doesn’t anyone get? Take a step back and look deeper into WHY some are smearing his reputation. His wife understood the part he had to play and is behind it 100%
@sdfotodude
@sdfotodude 6 месяцев назад
@@suzh4187 Rescuing the kids for profit meets the couple's ruse. How many strip clubs did Tim infiltrate along the way... for "investigative and research ' purposes first. How many lap dances, "Joder" tattoos and shots of Tequila did he have to endure? The FACT that O.U.R. fired him and the Mormon church excommunicated him for "morally objectionable" behavior is the facts and smoking guns of this man's pathetic story.
@jasonsnyder8341
@jasonsnyder8341 5 месяцев назад
Salt Lake Tribune. The official unofficial socialist newspaper of Utah.
@John-jh9ud
@John-jh9ud 6 месяцев назад
"Far right members" 😂
@deatradavenport5267
@deatradavenport5267 9 месяцев назад
Why start with begging for $3.
@philclegg8169
@philclegg8169 8 месяцев назад
They get no tithing.
@gersonhay984
@gersonhay984 8 месяцев назад
I Trust those Women. Read their confessions. Hard to make that up.
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