What if a talented artist asaulted you, or someone you knew, would you still be able to separate the artist from his work? It's just a matter of degrees.
One thing to remember about films is that they represent the work of many people, not just the director or the producer. They represent the work of writers, actors, cinematographers, editors, set designers, etc. If you trash a movie, it is the work of dozens of people being trashed. That's a lot of collateral damage because the director or one of the actors was a predator.
Read this Comment; because of the transgressions of a few, we junk tens of thousands of wonderful production staff and their work?!...who started this latter day witch hunt of yesteryear J'Accuse?....how far back do the accusers go and why would they stop there?...how do we, in 2020, know if there was abuse.. or not? Maybe men and women have different views...but the fact remains; do the accusers bring down the innocent pyramid because of one corroded block? Is that the objective?
@Stranded NYer Are you daft? Your response makes no sense. It doesn't matter how much creative control a director has, that doesn't negate the fact that thousands of other people rely on that film to pay their bills. If I just wrote my first debut film but the movie flops because the director raped someone, how easy do you think it will be for me to sell another script after I just wrote a flop? Why do you think the creative control aspects are even remotely relevent to this discussion?
@@Firebrand55 Call me crazy, but it might actually be best dealt with on a one-on-one basis of accusers and the accused to settle these things in real life courts of law. And if law won't do, try watching the movie In The Bedroom, it'll give you an idea how these things might play out otherwise. I'm more than confident that there are men -- and more than likely women -- who bully and berate others because they are feckless against their own urges. And they should absolutely be dealt with. So, hopefully with time going forward, we'll practice better aim.
You say that as though it's indisputable fact. Personally, I don't believe her but I haven't made up my mind for certain because I don't know the facts and neither do you.
The actress Tippi is so beautiful intelligent and such a respectful woman. It is so sad 😔 to know what she endure and suffered as an actress in this Hichkok film.I admire Tippi.💐 😢 Efrat, Israel.
exactly! back then there wasn`t such a thing as calling out someone for "sexual harrassment". the women who suffered because of men`s unwanted sexual advances had to bequiet and not tell anyone about it. even if they did nobody believed them. very hard times for women and minorities in general. Tippi is a wonderful woman who stood up to Hitchcock`s nasty harrassment and didn`t put up with it.
He's not here to deny it though. She had all those years to call him out, but, waited until he was dead and he couldn't defend himself and nor could any of his friends. It appears she waited until 2016 to say anything. Easy to accuse when no one is around to deny or prove you're wrong. She's still an actress and sensationalism sells.
Imperfect people can create great works. The question here is: Does knowing an artist's human frailty cancel out their achievements ? Does having the knowledge of their faults make it difficult to enjoy/appreciate their work? Wagner, Cézanne and Renoir were anti Jewish to varying degrees. It bothered me to learn this because I so love Cézanne's paintings. Elia Kazan ruined the careers of his Hollywood friends during the time of the McCarthy witch hunt trials. But On The Waterfront, Streetcar Named Desire and Splendor In The Grass are superb films. I think it is necessary to disassociate the faults of the artist from the art. Let the work stand alone.
I agree, I think letting the work stand separate from the artist would be the best way to admire and appreciate the work itself. however, by doing this we take away the link between the artist and his work which is essential in many ways. otherwise, it would be very easy and convenient to appreciate art from completely anonymous painters, photographers or moviemakers!
Agree. Human beings are flawed…some more some less, no one is a God so we should not put anyone on a pedestal, but, great art or any great contribution to society matters and should stand the test of time.
So sad what women have to go through just to make a living. All the trauma they have the rest of their lives. Why can't we just be respectful in the workplace towards everyone?
If I was one of these celebrities who was assaulted by a powerful producer I would find it difficult to separate the assault from even the production not to mention the abuser. Their works of art would be forever tainted in my eyes.
belinda hinckley oh yea Tippi Hedren was basically tortured on that movie. One of the last scenes of the movie where she got stuck in the room in the birds attacked her and then she when it's extreme shock. She wasn't acting. He literally threw birds at her take after take after take. She was so traumatized from that that they had to actually stop taping for a few days. But I still love the movie.
The sabotaging of her career was indefensible, but to say she was traumatised, is how many people of both sexes feel during 'their work'- Hitchcock clearly was a controlling creep is areas of his life. I can understand how belinda feels -it does put a cloud over his films.
Blacklisting art because of the artist is tricky. It means your erasing and editing the past, our experiences shape us no matter good or bad. The key is learn from them and educate people about the truth, so those bad things don't happen again to others. Evil will exist and continue to do so, as long as we bury our heads in the sand. This applies to all life.
Ridiculous! Everyone with a grudge accuses anybody in Hollywood of sexual abuse now. It’s totally unacceptable that me too has lost any sense of measure!
Don't punish all of the other innocent people connected to the shows/movies, the cast, crew, etc., by taking away their income. Some of them may depend on those earnings. They did nothing wrong, and deserve to have their work shown.
A movie isn't made just by one person, you are shutting down the works of hundreds of people. This cancel culture is sickening. If it was up to that, we'd be left with almost nothing. What about the pillars where religion was build? Countries, languages, and so much more that have abusive and violence roots...
Just so we’re clear, nobody in the “me too” movement is suggesting we burn or ban these films or tv shows. It’s simply raising awareness that if you don’t want to support predators, maybe skip buying a rotten apple movie. Hopefully we’ll do better in the future at dealing with perpetrators of bad behavior rather than ignoring the people they hurt.
That's what they are doing now with Captain James Cook. Erasing his recognition because he apparently killed some local people on an island. He still was one of the best explorers and navigators in history and that should not be forgotten or erased!!
Donald Spoto wrote a biography on Hitchcock in 1983: The Dark Side of Genius. I read it in 1984. It is full of details on Hitch's dark tendencies towards his blonde actresses, especially Tippy Hedren. So all of this has been known for 36 years. Hitch was abusive of Tippi. Not just by making clumsy sexual overtures (he never actually raped her), but by dominating her, molding her to his fantasies, by controlling each and every aspect of her life. Making her his living doll. Somewhere during the shooting of Marnie she decided not to play along. In revenge he destroyed her career.
There is no excuse for sexual abuse and being a big shot Director/Producer etc should not award them sympathy for the revelation nor minimise that abuse. Asking should their careers be minimised is deflection. Those poor men (not). That's not the point.
I watch the Cosby show but I’m not going to act like the world would be impoverished or I would be less of who I am if it didn’t exist. Its a wonderful show and gave us lasting lessons and memories. That being said, if not having The Cosby Show saved just one of the people who suffered at the hands of Cosby it would be worth it. Tf is he talking about suffering without westerns?😂
I don't believe Tip's claims against Hitchcock now that he's no longer here to defend himself. I won't believe her until someone else comes out with claims, he worked with A LOT of female actresses. Ironic that her granddaughter played a role in Fifty Shades.
You shouldn't separate the artist from the art. EVERY artist pours a little bit on themselves in each project, no matter whether they are actors, directors, etc.
To say that all art which was created by someone accused of sexual misconduct is now tainted is, in my opinion, a bit of a stretch. I've heard stories in the past about Hitchcock's womanizing, so nothing said in this report comes as a surprise, but I would still say his behavior is not on the same level as what someone like Bill Cosby has been accused of. I too grew up watching the Cosby Show, along with the Saturday morning cartoon Fat Albert. I also used to listen to Cosby's comedy bits many, many times, but to me they're now tainted and I don't enjoy them anymore. But I still enjoy watching Hitchcock movies even though I know Hitchcock was less than a perfect gentleman.
All humans are tainted, that’s why redemption is so important, and why we all need it, no matter your gender, race, politics or what your particular creative output is.
Really tricky question regarding the separation of Art and the evil behind the end product because it's not all about sexual and/or physical abuse as it also relates to Race , Politics , Religion and Sexual Deviance . For instance. ..my deepest most firmly held thoughts about Racism , War , Apartheid , Hypocrisy and the Historical behaviour of certain groups of people are impossible to avoid unless I live like a hermit or live in a cave . I am confronted by subliminal advertising or newspaper headlines which offend me every time I go shopping and I personally feel my own rights are abused because I am an elderly heterosexual married mother and grandma which means I am nowadays considered to be in a minority. .....at least in a ( so called ) civilised Country . Could be a great debate but I think I would be shouted down , imprisoned or shot !!!
I would also demand to know if someone at my bank, my doctors, my supermarket, my workplace, my neighborhood etc has ever been accused of sexual assault!!! Or any other crime! I don't care if he or she was convicted or not - an accusation, by anyone is enough for me! SERIOUSLY???
If viewers can't separate the artist's personal life from their on-screen work (whether it's behind the scenes or in front of the camera), then they might as well shut off their TVs and never go to the movies ever again, because there is no film to ever come out of Hollywood, that didn't have some wicked events taking place when the cameras weren't rolling. It's not called "Hollywood Babylon" for nothing!
Why did Tippi Hedren work again with Hitchcock on Marnie? Did Hedren ever talk to Mrs. Hitchcock. We don't know about the future, but being in a Hitchcock movie almost gives one a kind of immortality. If Tippi Hedren didn't make The Birds we wouldn't be interviewing her today. And what about Suzanne Pleshette, didn't Hedren talk to her about the situation?
2:35 we’ll, movies have hundreds of people working on them, not just movies pretty much any product could have a rapist or killer working on them so it’s not reasonable to eliminate products that are “tainted”… it’s a little different when a monstrous person is in the spotlight of the movie
Too bad her granddaughter is in that disgusting shades of grey movie! Even Tippi thinks it is disgusting! Maybe she should have told her granddaughter not to do it!
Artists can be very narcissistic. The three artists I've known all were rude and dismissive. One was brutally honest, to a degree of being cruel. The other two were supreme gaslighters. I'll take a boring accountant any day.
It wasn’t one person that made any film, play, tv show, etc so there’s no need to destroy and blacklist something because a person was/is a monster. Is tearing down a monument to Washington or Jefferson due to the fact they owned slaves justifiable?
No one is 100% good or 100% bad, just google "Gandhi sex life" and if you think the man was a saint, you'll have another thing coming... but there's no denial that he's one of the most important figures of the last century and an inspiring figure to the world. We all have shades of goodness or vileness or creepiness inside us... I just read some nasty stuff about Martin Luther King, of all the men... so yes, we should separate not the art from the artist, but the "who we are" from "what we do", some contributions are so grand and so significant that they do transcend the creepiness of the person... unless we're talking of a killer or a child molester or some war criminal... that's another story.
There is a site savehitchcock.com and former cast and Crew members tell quiete different stories. especially they tell how Hedren did misbehave on the set and a lot of her stories simply are not true. She told AFTER the death of Truffaut that Truffaut had wanted her to star in Fahrenheit 451 but Truffauts Family and Crew say Hedren never had been considered for that part. She also Claims that Hitchcock did ruin her Career what is not true at all, she herself did ruin her Career by accepting after her starring roles in The Birds and Marnie a SUPPORTING part in Chaplins Countess of Hong Kong (Brando and Loren were the stars, Hedren had 15 minutes screen time) If you are a star and Play a supporting part you NEVER again get a starring part, remember Demi Moore? After her suporting role in Charlies Angels she never again played a starring part in an A List movie but only supporting parts in B-movies. Hedren some years later played in and produced Roar which had a worldwide big PR but wasn´t a success. She blew her Career, not Hitchcock.
"No film, no TV show, uh, no work of art is, um, paramount or that genius or more important than, uh, the physical bodies or the physical selves that have been wronged in the process of making that work." I don't know. I'd say that any one of Caravaggio's paintings is worth more than Ms. Tamblyn. CBS should have gotten a fine-art appraiser to ponder this question.
It’s great that she can write an autobiography 50+ years after the fact, however you’re only ever going to hear one side of the story. The man is dead for gods sake and he has been a long, long time. If she’s going to make accusations why wait this exorbitant amount of time? I’m a woman and frankly these women that are doing all this finger pointing decades after the fact, (yes you Janet Dickenson) are beyond deplorable. I don’t even believe close to half of them. Say something when it happens or don’t say anything at all.
Factual Error -- according to Tippi In her interview with Larry King. - Hitch taunted Tippi AFTER the Birds (during the filming of Marnie). This video clearly portrays it as being during the Birds. (Although, bad conduct is wrong regardless of the timeline).
The question is do you think that these beautiful work of art were done because the artist was a horribly flawed human being? Artist like HP Lovecraft, Thomas Kincaid, Caravaggio etc.
Everyone has the right to "shun" a movie or TV show. But that doesn't mean that those who want to watch the movie or TV show in question should be prohibited from watching it. You can try to encourage me to boycott something that you find offensive but you can not prevent me from seeing it. If we were to ban or destroy every movie or TV show, or novel, or painting or sculpture which was created by an immoral person or which starred an immoral actor or actress, the world would be a desolate landscape of ashes and dust . Just say'n.
So, if the owner Of sock factory Is a sexual predator... To his staff. Do we stop wearing socks? Well, judging by the amount Of sexual predators there are... We will all end up naked. Making it easier for sexual predators. Where is the logic? In a straightjacket!?
Hedren says Hitchcock never touched her. He only "verbally" hit on her and that seems to have traumatized Hedren. Give me a break. There's lots more to this than Hedren is admitting to, like maybe childhood molestation, rape sometime in her life, etc.
Get a grip try having an old married man tell you daily he wants to have sex with you and if you refuse he will ruin the career you have worked for your whole life.You spouting that rubbish you did totally shows how way to many men feel about it being ok to say and go after a woman even after she tells you no.Then you come back and minimize anything you did and put it back on the woman that she must have the issue.
He viciously ruined her career! This is beyond the creep he was. It's criminal. Big disappointment for people with a CONSCIENCE! Something he was lacking in spades!
People fight for ignoring abusive but talented "artists", but who fights for all abused talented artists like Tippi Hedren? How many talented artists had to suffer and were crushed by this abusive industry? How many lives destroyed? How many pieces of art did we miss because of that?
"Trust the art not the artist" - Bruce Springsteen. Of course you can and should separate the art from the artist. Additionally this "women are my tribe" is low fruit nonsense. We are individuals, and we should be looked at that way. Women have not escaped sin anymore than men. No tribe is free of that.