I remember when I first started lifting if I forgot to bring my protein shake to the gym I would panic like my whole workout was for nothing. Then I would buy my gym's 5x marked up protein shake... Sigh live and learn lol
Not everyone was that dumb. But now I see why bodybuilders got called stupid. People were getting jacked way before protein powder came along. And 95% of people knew this and chose to ignore it.
@akbananachucker2441 you overestimate how widespread your own knowledge was bud. 95% is a lowball for the amount of people who were going by what the big boy in their gym did, not based on the best natty lifters of Christmas past. Most of us (people, not just bbers) are stupid. It's annoying when someone isn't self aware enough to recognize that. Take care
The anabolic window is real. Once I had a workout and got delayed in traffic, luckily when I got home I done 1 press up to “reset the clock” and then consumed my protein shake.
@@jerrythomas4457I'm with you. What a crappy, tryhard joke. Regretting even addressing it before posting, but hopefully it helps the commenter and the ppl who have to pit up with this
agreed - i go constantly prioritize high prot / kcal ratio + high nutrient / kcal ratio foods each and every time i eat so i never really need to count anything
Positively refreshing to hear "sure I sell a protein line, but you dont 'really' need protein if you're already getting it from your diet" ectect... As someone who hasnt touched ANY of the protein shakes I see everywhere because i am distrustful of how much stuff is sold on shelves these days which are cons. The honesty makes me want to buy and try Dr Nortons line lol Meanwhile ive just been fasting all day with only a coffee in the morning.. Getting into the Gym at 8:30am, Going home at 4pm (having X2 one hour breaks during gym hours) only then at home do i have food.. It seems to work so far , and my energy is fine.. but adding some protein seems like it might be a good lil boost too. Great video very informative and feels genuine and honest
This is how you stand out from the masses who push selling their protein brands. I don't even remember them. Yours I will cause you're not all over the place with it👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Excellent video Layne! As long as people make sure to have the necessary amount of protein in their diet and they're consistent with their exercise routine, they'll probably see good results
Would love if you put these on a Spotify or Apple playlist. Would be an amazing and easier resource than YT. That being said, grateful that you put out so much free, useful content where others charge for us to subscribe to trash.
As a well-wisher _ I must compliment the simplicity and composure at display here. Far far faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better than those nauseating antics that had crept up more and more lately.
Huberman had someone on, maybe in the last 6-8 weeks or so, talking about the need for women to be even more conscious of pre-workout protein because of the utilisation of protein during strength training. Much more so than men. Post workout, I think she (Stacy Sims) said the need to consume protein post training is a shorter window for women, something like 60-90 minutes, while men the window was 2-3 hours post workout.
Everyone's different. I don't like to have food in my stomach when I train. I'll try to eat two hours before going to the gym. Then by the time I'm wrapping up my last set or two, I'm already starving, so when I get home, boom, I start eating.
I was in an argument on the carbon Facebook group with a female that insisted it IS important for females to time protein. She could not share anything to actually back this up other than some woman with a channel stating it. Couldn’t believe someone in the carbon group still believed this. Obviously uses the app but doesn’t watch your content.
Menno Henselmans recently cited a study that the body can apply more protein to MPS after a workout vs during a normal meal (30ish grams during a single meal vs double or more post workout.) Anything in excess of that 30ish during a meal gets used to support anti-catabolic processes (fighting muscle breakdown.)
Always love these videos Dr. Norton. I agree with your take on the research. Has there been much research around carb intake pre/during/post workout? I've found some older studies relating to recovery but this seems to be a bit of an oversight in the fitness influencer community. I still use my 4:1 carb:protein drink during my training sessions with clients because they're usually a couple hours long and to me it makes me feel "fueled". Just trying to figure out if it's my own placebo effect or if I'm actually spending money well.
I actually live in the real world where I'm not always sure if my wife will have dinner ready when I get home or even after an hour or two. So drinking protein and carbs post workout works for me and actually helps my muscles feel filled up again. And at the end of the day it adds to my macros. I've been doing this for over 40 years and it does make a difference whether or not some 3 month study says it doesn't.
It makes sense from an evolutionary perspective too, food insecurity was ubiquitous for the vast majority of human evolution, it would be crazy if we needed to feed so quickly after stimulus in order to adapt.
I got in my best shape by far (leanest, strongest, most muscular, most vascular) a few years ago when I was practising fasting... I ate 2 large meals near the end of my day with about 80-100g of protein at each meal (I was 178 lbs very lean). I now eat 50g of protein with each meal, 3 meals per day. I'm nowhere near as "jacked" as I was a few years ago. I'm lifting consistently too, but not with nearly the same volume (2 hrs a day, every other day now, vs 3 hrs a day 6 x per week before). I never thought I could get in that kind of shape in my life, but I did, naturally, in my 40s. So if I can do it eating 2 large meals with nearly 100g of protein per meal, then I'm convinced protein timing doesn't matter. Could I have got better results if I spread out to 5 meals a day? I doubt it, or at least the difference wouldn't be noticeable. Maybe if you are drug addicted bodybuilding competitor it might matter (slightly) but for 99.9% of people it doesn't.
Would have been more interesting to see what happens between groups if they supplemented pre- and post workout, but had different levels of protein intake overall. What I suspect would happen is that we would see an effect for pre- and post workout supplementation for lower overall protein intakes. Meaning, I would imagine that as you consume more protein overall the less important protein timing gets. I could also imagine that protein timing with smaller overall protein intakes of 1.2g/kg to 1.6g/kg paired with pre- and post workout supplementation would be on the same level as just eating 2g/kg without pre- and post workout shakes.
The only thing I find remotely important timing wise is carbs, especially when I'm not in a surplus. Other than that, the body knows what it's doing, just get the total amount of nutrition, and it works.
A calorie surplus is way more important than extra protein as you get adequate protein with a calorie surplus. If you’re not lifting weights you do not need to consume protein as you get more than enough during a daily diet of virtually anything, Carbs FTW!! 💪💪💪
I appreciate that a whey protein shake will spike insulin somewhat, but wouldn't there be more benefit in combining a whey protein shake with some high glycemic carbs immediately after hard training?
I train fasted in the morning. It fits my schedule best this way. So I definately consume a post workout shake of 60 g of whey concentrate, 50 g of dextrose and 5 g of creatine. I also add some salt, potassium chloride and magnesium. Around 90-120 min after I eat a bowl of 100+ g of oat meal with low fat milk and 40 g of whey. Since I train fasted I imagine it's another situation. And that way I at least feel like i've given my body what he acutely needs at the time he really needs it. I'm still enjoying memory effect because I was way bigger than now 10 years back. But I grow like weed and can see visible improvements weekly. Never change a running system. 😅
It makes sense to me to have a post workout shake. It doesn’t have to be the second I’m done working out. Just when I get home 15 to 20 minutes later. It’s been 4ish hours since my pre workout meal and I don’t really want to eat a full meal just after lifting. 200 ish calorie shake with 40 ish grams of protein and some fruit blended in it is a nice bridge between pre and post workout meals while helping me space out and hit my daily protein goal. I mean if the window is a few hours before and after the workout why not take 3 nutritional protein shots in that window instead of 2?
The cool thing is they used a fast digesting like protein powder for this. so that means whole food proteins like chicken or beef probably last even longer, so you’re even more in the clear. I thought this for a long time now think (and it’s gross but) about any time you’ve thrown up and you have pieces of chicken/ pizza from the meal you ate like 6-8 hours ago. Food takes a good amount of time to digest.
Dr. Stacy Sims on Huberman Lab recently pointed out that this is true for men, but not for women. She recommended women to directly eat something high protein and some carbs before and after workout. The study Dr Norton explains here was done in men only.
how many studies were done on women ? with how many participants. It doesnt make sense at all and most likely doesnt even make a difference being so marginal. Idk why people complexify everything
I just used my protein shake first thing in the morning. 2 scoops 50g total. Just so I'm not catching up at the end of the night. Then I eat normally 3 high protein meals.
I train hard and often feel a slight nausea for an hour or so afterwards, so I normally wait an hour or two before eating, and I train at 4.40am fasted.
Everyone is different but I like a pre protein carb meal approx 45-1 hr 30 before training. If I’m hungry during training, I feel more fatigued and flatter/pump not as good even I’m hydrated.
So what about timing in the sense of "number of protein feedings consumed within particular times of day?" Does it matter if I eat 5-6 small protein meals versus 2-3 big protein meals evenly throughout the day?
I typically consume protein right away when I get home after a workout. I figure I'm going to have it at some point and I am less likely to forget if I do it that way. No other reason.
I remember those days… I would say, after an intense workout, and if I’m starving, the old dogma is not a bad idea. That would hold me until after my shower.
What would you advice when first thing in the morning is training? I usually take a proteinshake now before I go out just to have some protein in my system after being fasted for more or less 11 hours. I actually like training fasted more, but now I alwasy take the shake just because I think it is really needed.
wouldnt all of this also heavily depend on the source of protein? whey causes a spike in blood aminoacids while slow digesting proteins take hours. or has this also to do with AA uptake of the muscle cells..?
Any insight if you're working out first thing in the morning fasted? Example up and out the door within 15 minutes of waking so no time for a pre-workout meal.
Aren't you going to be in a catabolic state after a workout and eating something small first to get back to anabolic state, where then you can tackle a bigger meal after its absorbed to some degree
Hey when we talk about 1g/pound or 2g/kg protein intake is it only high quality protein (e.g. meat, egg, etc) or combined with the protein in side dishes as vegetables, etc (assuming a basically high quality protein diet with a proper amount of vegetables). I know leucine trashold should be hit so besides that factor.
In the end it is the amount of different amino acids that counts, the source doesn't matter beyond possibly the bioavailability (plant protein is harder for our digestive system to "get to" so more is typically needed, I believe ~20% is a number I've seen). If you're eating a balanced diet you'll probably be in the ballpark.
@@PSA78 Thank you for your response. I am only 135lb (11% bf dexa) now after my cut and in order to surely hit leucine trashold I eat at least 40-50g protein/meal (counting every source but 35+ g from high quality at least). It is not difficult to me at all but only can eat 3 times/day and still eat sometimes 150-170g (if I do not limit my intake). For 4-5th meal I eat coffee and fruits - i do not want to spread my protein more with that conditions. I still eat more than 1 g/lb but I rather do that instead of worrying about leucine trashold all the time. Probably I am worrying too much. :) Well I will do muscle gain soon so probably will gain weight/muscle - at least I do not need to increase my protein for the next decade... :) I still think my protein intake is overkill but my results (in the cut) were amazing so if it is safe to my body (it should be) then I am fine with it.
@@Horpetii "Protein requirement" is more precisely based on weight, LBM, age and if you're in a deficit, balance or surplus regarding calories. If you have good data on yourself then you could use a more precise formula than the 1g/1lb. I believe Layne or someone on Team Biolayne has posted it somewhere.
Question: what about working out early morning on an empty stomach? Is this still valid or better to take the protein ASAP after workout since last protein intake was 12 hours ago?
Then you should probably eat. Your body doesn't have a protein storage like it has for glucose and fat, so your body will break down muscle mass and not be able to rebuild it until you do consume some protein.
then make sure to eat sufficient protein for the day and have a good workout. those matter more than nutrient timing. good idea to prepare a shake following if you cannot consume one before, but not essential.
Totally fine. A lot of people prefer to work out fasted. It’s possible that you are missing out on a fraction of potential gains.. but unlikely to be significant or noticeable, so with that uncertainty and potentially only missing a tiny amount of benefit, I say keep doing what your doing because the best routine for you is the one that works and is sustainable!
I like a post workout protein shake. Its the only time it tastes okay. I've tried it in the morning, lunch, dinner and supper and it ruins whatever else i'm eating with its faux chocolate/strawberry/vanilla/whatever flavor.
Dr Lane is probably one of my favorite edcuation youtubers to this day. Emphasizes on doing your own research (If youre on the fence about the topic) and debunking bullshit. All these pseduo scientist getting degrees be like. "finally i can write one study that will challenge the other 3000! Creating a stupid cultural rift so they buy my products"
What’s good Layne! I have a difficult time hitting 180 grams of protein daily. My goal weight is 180-190 and I’m 195 (skinny fat). Can I get away with 160 grams protein at 1800 calories to burn fat and build muscle. I do a 3 day full body workout.
Here's my unsollicited advice: yes you can get away with 160/1800 very well. 3/day full body seems like total overkill though, you need to rest and recover after every workout unless you're taking it super easy in the gym and even then there will be some fatigue accumulation
@@WadaMalone thanks boss. I take a days rest between each workout. 3 upper/3 lower with one compound movement for each group of muscles. I do enough to leave the gym pretty fatigued but not to the point of exhaustion. I just want to be healthy for my family so I’m not putting up major weight. Just enough to gain strength, build some muscle, and recover. I appreciate the advice 💪
You realize that literally the whole point of the scientific method is that knowledge evolves over time as more data is collected, studied and verified, right?
That was for Men. What about women? I have heard that women are different and do need protein within a certain period after workout. I’ve heard Dr Stacey Simms say this I think it’s 45 minutes, as well as having something before.
When all the drinks and liquids you take have whey protein, and the air itself in your room has some whey powder floating around, you are not gonna miss that window.
I just want to see, a trained individual, consuming 4x meals a day of 45grams protein vs a trained individual having omad, 180grams. Then I can decide whether I care about any of this.
The trommelen bbq study isn’t what you’re asking for, but provides a pretty good answer to the question. Tldr: probably doesn’t matter to worry about it, as long as your daily intake is in the right place
@@mattheweley yeah thats what i thought. Basically as far as i find, protein in doses is more effective as a fat loss agent for satiating hunger cravings.
I had a cheat day of two dominoes pizzas and I didn't gain any weight for 2 days. It took 2 days for the excess calories to finally be converted to adipose tissue/body weight. So I HIGHLY doubt consumed protein can be utilized within the day, let alone 3 hours around a work out. Digestion doesn't work like that. Maybe powdered form has a slight advance over whole foods, but unless it's taken intravenously there still wouldn't be an anabolic window. If you use any protein after a workout, it's probably from 3 or 4 meals ago. Maybe more. There is a Nitrogen Pool flowing through the body and will get used when needed, as necessary or sent to the Urea Cycle. That's it. You can't cheat the process or change it. The majority of muscle growth will happen while you sleep anyway. So timing is useless.
