Would love to hear your thoughts on this recent meta-analysis Layne: Impact of Collagen Peptide Supplementation in Combination with Long-Term Physical Training on Strength, Musculotendinous Remodeling, Functional Recovery, and Body Composition in Healthy Adults: A Systematic Review with Meta-analysis
Who uses Collagen for building muscles anyway? I use it with hyaluronic acid and Vit C for hair, skin and nails. I dont think Ive heard anyone recommend it for muscle growth
I was also wondering this. Although I bought a bag of hydrolysed collagen peptides from BulkNutrients and it shows different dosages for hair/nails/joints and for muscle growth. So people must do it. I'll stick with the whey protein for building muscles though.
Just a reminder, beef protein isolate usually a fancy sounding name for collagen. It is not like they took beef muscle and broke it down to a powder. It is all the throw away parts of the cow which are mostly composed of collagen.
Great point. If you look up the amino acid profile of Paul Saladino’s new protein powder, it’s basically collagen. Almost no leucine at all. $79 “high-quality protein” … surprised no one has called him out for that scam.
I can't thank you enough for not shying away from the science. As a nutrition student, I had a hard time understanding (and remembering) the details of mTOR so I appreciate the review
I've never heard anyone recommend collagen for muscle building. The amount you take daily just isn't enough for that. It's usually to promote skin, ligament, health etc.
There are actually some RCT studies about impact of collagen consumption for skin. It seems like 5g/day seems enough dosage to see some effects on wrinkles etc.
Collagen feels more or less like a supplement to another supplement. It's an incomplete protein, so you should mix collagen peptide powder with your whey/casein protein shake, drink bone broth with your eggs/meat at breakfast, or cook the rice you're having with your chicken/steak and veggies in bone broth instead of water.
Dr Brad Stanfield cites research stating that collagen peptides "survive" digestion and supplement collagen in the skin. If this is false, save me $30.00 a month. Vanity is expensive 🤣🤣🤣
Ask, what are collagen peptides, exactly? Are these peptides not also present in whey? Or any high protein food? Likely in higher quantities, for cheaper.. All you need to know is what the final result is, and thats basically nothing. The good doctor can cite a million studies on various aspects of biochemistry, but if you can't demonstrate a real world difference, its all moot. In other words, good for the peptides surviving...they still don't help you.
I would like to believe collagen is trash. Would save me money. But i swear that this stuff is softening my nails and skin. And it seems to improve my tendons aswell.
There are actually some RCT studies about impact of collagen consumption for skin. It seems like 5g/day seems enough dosage to see some effects on wrinkles etc.
incidentally, "moisturizing" with external lotions have been shown in dermatology research to be mostly trash, whereas, oral hyaluronic acid and collagen peptide supplementation have been shown to produce marked reduction in wrinkles.
That’s because it is but Layne is the most pedantic person in the world. I mean even the packages of collagen say not to use it as a replacement for other protein sources. He just can’t help himself but be annoying.
@@JaredFontHow is he annoying? Can you explain why it's useful as an add-on? From what I gathered from this information it's not evidenced to show an effect you wouldn't get just from whey? Or is that incorrect?
@@JaredFontIt's not annoying, but necessary - I know people who specifically supplement with collagen, because they believe it's the shit for some reason.
@@Echo-bl7bd Maybe it’s useful maybe it’s not I never said anything about that. Layne just plays things up like they’re a thing when they aren’t. It’s ironic because it’s the same thing the people he calls out do.
I do all of these. Whichever is on sale at my natural foods market. This is a great video. I was wondering this exact content the other day. Fantastic.
I thought collagen was mainly for your joints and tendons. I take them because i was told it helps your knees elbows etc. Is it true or just waste of money?
At the end of the video, he states very clearly that collagen doesn't go straight to your connective tissues, etc. It is broken down like all other proteins into individual amino acids that are used by your body as it needs to. He concludes that it is a waste of money.
Another so so take by Layne. Collagen is for skin and joints, not for muscle. Peptides are certainly absorbed. Even large ones. Rybelsus is an oral version of semaglutide, which is a 100+ amino acid peptide, and it is certainly absorbed in the digestive tract.
The Rybelsus formulation is not just the semaglutide peptide, but rather it is complexed with SNAC (unlike collagen supplements). This is the only reason that oral administration of the intact peptide chain is possible. Any one with a basic understanding of biochemistry would see this. Layne is 100% right here.
@@theulysses7236 absolutely misleading claims! Fact - peptides are absorbed! Obviously small peptides (Collagen) are absorbed better that large peptides (Semaglutide). SNAC is basic absorption enhancer, just slighly better than Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), which is recommended with your Collagen regimen. With these clickbaity headlines Layne is (deliberately ?) ignorant of the work of Keith Baar, PhD and many others, who have produced ample evidence on Collagen for connective tissue health.
In terms of collagen supplementation for collagen production in the body, have you seen some of the latest research detecting hydroxyproline in the blood? This amino acid is found only in collagen, and this study found that it survives digestion intact and enters the bloodstream. An idea under investigation is that hydroxyproline acts as a signalling peptide to have the body produce more collagen. This can be beneficial for the joints and skin.
At the end of the video, he states very clearly that collagen is broken down like all other proteins into individual amino acids that are used by your body as it needs them, so there is no other purpose for collagen than there is for all proteins: building muscle as well as hair, nails, skin, ligaments, etc.
Just discovered today that Costco is now selling Kirkland brand whey protein. It was around $47 for 5.4 lbs vs. $64 for the premium brand. They only had chocolate flavor. My review - it doesn't mix easily but it tastes great.
Buy from a price club if you can afford go for It I start every day with that combo mixed with cold brew coffee. I’ve tweaked different joints and tendons and I feel like recovery from these things have been pretty quick.
This is the way it is supposed to be used. It's poor as a pure protein source. The collagen can maintain its di and tri- peptides and won't break down as much when taken with whey.
@@bullinvginshop9011how much benefit? Benefits you -cant- get from the AA profile of whey and your own diet? Or can you get them fine from whey and diet, maybe with some more simple adjustments? If it just a small skin benefit or a large joint saving benefit?
Great video, as always! 🎉👏🏼 Do we know on good authority if collagen supplementation actually has added benefits to joint health and skin youthfulness? Or is that just a waste of money?
Collagen is more for joint tissues and skin. I actually stumbled on the skin benefits by accident lol. I needed something for a sore knee and quickly came across collagen, tried it, and it helped! But I also noticed my faced looked much more clearer than ever before. Did a littler more research and saw that's the other main use for collagen. So now I add 2 scoops of collagen to my daily smoothies 😊
I use collagen with my protein shakes along with my whey, casein and mixed protein shakes, but for my joint pain and such. I also put a small scoop of collagen in my homemade bone stock I drink with my coffee.
I was just discussing this with my sister who is a general NP... She said they typically consume less protein, as well. I told my father, since he's technically considered elderly in age, he should double what he's consuming. The man eats like a freaking bird
I’m really surprised hospitals feed their clients/patients Ensure products - it’s so full of garbage ingredients. I’ve always wondered why not just use whey.
Due to my personal experience having consumed predominantly collagen in my diet for a few months, I experienced no difference in my joints (well, one was SEVERELY damaged, anyway, so discounting that one), skin, nor hair. I truly do believe, for the most part, it's great for those who don't consume, or have enough protein in their diet. Again personal experience, and I read a lot of studies. Having said that, and now that you mentioned it, I'll be looking into those specifics.
There are actually some RCT studies about impact of collagen consumption for skin. It seems like 5g/day seems enough dosage to see some effects on wrinkles etc.
Also this one: Effects of 12 Weeks of Hypertrophy Resistance Exercise Training Combined with Collagen Peptide Supplementation on the Skeletal Muscle Proteome in Recreationally Active Men
why do you and so many people say that collagen would be for hair and nails. neither our hair nor our nails contain any collagen, they are not connective tissue, why would collagen help there?
I'm not sure why. I mean keratin is also rich in glycine and proline like collagen is but keratin most importantly contains a fair bit of cysteine which provides the disulfide bonds to supply strength (also the bad smell when burnt). I don't believe collagen supplements will help with this at all. Then again, there are metabolic links between serine, glycine, and cysteine so maybe it could help with hair and nails but likely for people who are protein deficient to begin with.
@@Radjehuty I don't think it's that complicated. They sound similar when pronounced, and they are both heavily featured in cosmetics advertisements, so I think they just got merged in public consciousness. I think that's all there is to it. People are dumb like that 😂
My joints are pretty knackered from 16 years in the military. I take 20g of collagen protein daily for joint support. It's relatively cheap and if it even marginally helps offset further wear I think it's worth it the investment. I take whey for muscle building and eat plenty of lean meat.
@@davorzdralo8000 It is widely understood that a human can build muscles from eating animal muscles, but it's somehow impossible to understand how a human can build collagen from eating collagen? Animal muscles that you eat have the perfect balance of amino acids to support muscle growth. Animal collagen that you eat has the perfect balance of amino acids to support collagen growth. Why are people confused about this?
There are actually some RCT studies about impact of collagen consumption for skin. It seems like 5g/day seems enough dosage to see some effects on wrinkles etc.
Newbie question. Will collagen peptides encourage bone formation? I get most of my protein from dietary sources topping up when required with WPC. There is no evidence to suggest my MPS is poor but clinically my DMD is very low. If it's all just small chain aminos by the time it's digested I don't see value in changing but I'm open to exploring anything that could improve my bone health even if it comes at the expense to muscle health.
Collagen does not get completely broken down into its amino constituents, but into peptides. "Thus, the results demonstrated that CH is absorbed predominantly as peptides, which subsequently enter systemic circulation." doi: 10.2220/biomedres.39.1
He said that in the video. The point is that what is floating around in your blood is not collagen but peptides that need to be assembled into whatever needs to be repaired. It cannot go straight into repairing tendons or skin.
@@brucejensen3081 some very small di or Tri peptides can be absorbed into the blood, just not whole collagen proteins. Collagen has a chain of 19 amino acids. It’s all just building blocks that the body can use for whatever purpose it sees fit.
This is good timing for me to see this because I’ve had a lot of chronic pain/joint issues since I was 12 years old and I’m 24 currently (I have chest/shoulder/spine deformation thing and accumulated major imbalances from certain sports/repetitive activities) and I’ve been trying to research whether collagen would help me or not since it’s so expensive. I might still try it at least once regardless just to see if it does anything, but this video will help contribute to what I decide. I am a very crackly person for lack of a better word, like the type of person who’s knees crack every time I kneel down and my left shoulder joints grind together when I do arm circles or lift above my head, so I’m really trying to figure out what I should be taking to help lubricate things more. I was taking omegas for a while but I can’t always afford it.
Indeed, Collagen is good.. but not for pure Amino content or hypertrophy. It is good for optimizing your bodies connective tiisues: cartilage, tendons, skin, hair, nails, and yes, muscle to a degree.
@mneno7096 @@denisebatalha3552 Collagen isn't absorbed through the skin but it does sit on the surface and trap hydration under it very well so it is indeed good in a moisturizer
Genuine question. Since collagen has more of the amino acids you would need for collagen synthesis in higher doses, couldn't that translate to more/better collagen production?
There are actually some RCT studies about impact of collagen consumption for skin. It seems like 5g/day seems enough dosage to see some effects on wrinkles etc.
Yet collagen is much better for our joints and skins ! do we really have to choose between? my humble solution is to just take both together in my shakes as part of a complete protein combo
Honest question... was there any reason given for using only male research participants? Wonder if there would have been the same MPS level increases with whey and pea protein supplements in older females, or possibly insufficient leucine would have reduced the MPS?
There are actually some RCT studies about impact of collagen consumption for skin. It seems like 5g/day seems enough dosage to see some effects on wrinkles etc.
I guess my question is if i add collagen on top of whey protein, can i get the muscle protien synthesis while getting collagen to assist with connective tissue. Its a climber question.
The days of me acing biochemistry I and II memorizing every step in protein translation and every acronym 😅 ahoutout molecular biology and biochemistry
There are actually some RCT studies about impact of collagen consumption for skin. It seems like 5g/day seems enough dosage to see some effects on wrinkles etc.
@@nothanks2310 I don't have now, but you can take a look at Dr Brad Stanfield channel. He has evidence-based video about collagen giving citations. Don't want this to sound like advertising though. He mostly cites RCTs, systematic reviews and meta analysis :)
I've taken collagen for about 1.5 years. I haven't seen any result that makes me believe it's good for connective tissue. I thought it might help with a knee injury, but it had no impact. I initially thought it was increasing my hair and nail growth, but those two effects stopped while I'm still consuming collagen. The only changes I see from collagen are reduction of wrinkles, looking younger and faster healing of my skin. If I don't take collagen for a couple of weeks, I notice my wrinkles are enhanced and I look older. I also noticed that scrapes, cuts and scars heal up a lot faster. This could all be in my mind but I'm sharing for discussion and to help understand if there really are any pros to taking collagen. After watching this video, I wonder if including Leucine with the collagen might have some benefit. If that's the case, it's probably cheaper just to consume extra whey protein.
so explain to me why I see an improvement in my hair, skin, and nails when I use collagen....quality improves and they all grow a lot faster. Constantly clipping my nails and having to cut my hair
Layne watching your analysis looks like you say collagen is useless… for MPS maybe, but it works for tendons, please make a video on it. Watch material from Keith Baar on the topic. Thanks.
Whey protein should be combined with collagen protein... Creates certain functions for muscle building in your body, that do not occur without collagen. Think of it like any other meat... You need both; your body doesn't react the same without it. Thomas delauer made a recent video, quoting a recent study on this
Collagen doesn’t build muscle but it definitely supports skin health, I have zero hangnails after taking it and even my dad was shocked since I made him start taking it and he’s had hangnails his entire life, and now he doesn’t
result doesnt surprise me, i can only say this for collagen , the main things i notice is an increase in hair and nail growth, which also drops off if i stop taking it
@huberman lab podcast on skin health and appearance... referenced a direct connection from collagen intake/supplements to better skin out comes? I believe he specifically alluded to the fact that this is one mechanism that has a direct outcome. I would love to see your interpretation of his data sources.
DR GABRIELLA LYONS (WHO YOU STUDIED TOGETHER WITH) SAYS COLLAGEN IS BENEFICIAL FOR TENDONS/LIGAMENTS. YOU BOTH HAVE SAME QUALIFICATIONS AND BOTH LOOK FIT SO WHO TO BELIEVE!!
When you ingest any protein it 1st goes through hydrochloric acid in your stomach. It is broken down to aminos. The best protein it actual FOOD as none of these is complete.
So take away. Pea protein is fantastic for people don't want to support thw dairy industry/ or vegans. It is nearly the same as whey in terms of muscle synthesis. Thanks!
My understanding is that collagen protein is mainly used for connective tissues, skin, nails, etc by the body. I think there was just a study that showed post workout collagen protein did show an advantage for connective tissues
I throw a scoop of collagen into my protein shake. Easy peasy, i take it for skin and connective tissue regeneration. Does it actually do anything? Who knows but i didn't think it will hurt.
One issue beyond less than spectacular taste of pea protein is that to get those two 25g servings will probably cost 600mg of added sodium. It’s not an existential amount. But for people were trying to control blood pressure and get lean using a protein rich shake meal replacement type of approach, it isn’t totally irrelevant either. that said, I’m definitely willing to blend some whey PI and pea protein together in the spirit of flexitarianism.
collagen has the precursor amino acits for creating creatin. and I was guessing if you are taking like 20g of collagen per day is similar to taking 5g of creating or something
You can disregard all of this information and just stop using protein supplements, if youre eating enough real food protein whiiiich you should be doing in most cases anyway. Beef, chicken, eggs, dairy, and to a lesser extent turkey, fish, and pork.
