Today I interviewed Timothy Snyder, an American historian and expert on the history of Eastern Europe. We discussed the war in Ukraine, arms shipments from Germany, whether Pushkin and Dostoyevsky were imperialist writers, and of course the terms "fascism," "schizo fascism," and "rashism”. For Russian voiceover please follow: • Тимоти Снайдер: Ложь П...
00:00 Timothy Snyder, American historian, professor at Yale University. He has written several books, including the best-sellers “Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin” and “On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century”.
01:53 Who are "schizo-fascists"? Schizo-fascism operates like fascism - through defining someone as an enemy. A fascist is an enemy, which means, by definition, that we Russians can't be fascists, they are our enemies. Despite everything that has happened since 1991, the concept of "fascism" is very deeply rooted in Russian people.
06:02 Why is it necessary to recognize that Russia is a fascist state? Fascism does not involve intelligent dialogue, it operates by force and power. No one has ever defeated fascists in discussion. Fascism was defeated in military confrontation.
09:45 Why should Russia lose the war? America loses wars all the time: in Vietnam, in Iraq, in Afghanistan. Russia also regularly loses wars-it almost lost World War II, Afghanistan. A defeat means that the people who run the state have a chance to reconsider because they're forced to reconsider. The consequences of the war will be personal for Putin. When the war is over, negotiations will begin.
12:53 How is Russian culture responsible for what is happening? Pushkin always presents Russians as innocent. This is the cultural topos - even if we are the aggressors, we are right. You can see how Dostoevsky is perceived in Poland.
16:06 The problem of Russian history as in the United States. It's an imperial country that needs a post-imperial or non-imperial history. Losing wars, as for the Germans in 1945, is a chance to rethink history. For Russia, losing this war would be useful. Removing the word "Ukraine" from Russian history textbooks is terrible. The perception of Russian history is ruined by Putin because he has hijacked and privatized it.
21:20 Russians have never liked the word "colonial." But colonialism helps to understand the Russian Empire. Ukraine and Russia are like Scotland and England.
26:03 What is "Rashism"? Russian fascists and propagandists used fascism against other people. The concept of fascism has shifted to Ukraine. The Ukrainians responded with a term, "Here is Russian fascism." When the strikes on Vinnitsa start and civilians are killed, then people start using this word.
30:05 Putin is trying to legitimize history: we are innocent, the Russians are innocent. This is the result of Putin's aging - his views, reactions and ideas are changing. The idea with the war was based on false ideological premises that he blindly believed in.
32:23 Germany is in no hurry to supply weapons to Ukraine - a consequence of Germany's colonial experience. World War II was a colonial war, and not against Russia, but against Ukraine. World War II was fought mostly on the territory of Ukraine and Belarus. But it never occurred to anyone to ask what the Ukrainians thought. Germany is a great power. It faced Russia, another great power.
35:26 I have a very primitive view of the war in Ukraine - I think it must end, and the only way it can end is if Ukraine wins. If you think deeper, some things have already changed forever. The Ukrainians have achieved recognition in Europe.
36:07 War fatigue is a journalistic demand, not reality. But Americans are more concerned about inflation in the United States right now. That's natural. But people think America should step up its support for Ukraine.
41:26 Kissinger's approach: the habit of seeing Russia as the Soviet Union, which is perceived as a superpower. They don't know anything about Russia and Ukraine. Ukrainians don't care if American realists somewhere out there say they should give up. They know what happened in Trostyanets and Bucha, Irpen and Mariupol, and many other places.
46:34 Russia should become a kind of example for the West, a test of strength. Russia's way is a possible alternative to the future of the United States. We should learn from Russia's example. For example, the gap between rich and poor, freedom of speech, the legend of innocence. Democracy is about admitting and correcting one's mistakes.
52:32 It wasn't the Russians who produced Trump. But important people in Russia wanted Trump as a candidate for President of the United States. Trump represents America at its worst: a sense of entitlement by the mere fact of having American citizenship.
56:13 The topic of outright lies: Putin is outright lying. At first he lied, but now the scale of this lie has grown: he says that there is no such state as Ukraine, that there are only Nazis there.
17 май 2024
