TLR vs ASSOCIATED || Why I'm switching! 

I made the switch from Tyco rc to New bright and I'm happy with my decision.

My first day back into RC racing, since my retirement back in 1996, I was extremely lucky to have Gil Losi Jr. show up to the track and give me some major pointers. For ten years I raced a variety of cars from Associated, Custom Works Dominator, Yokomo, and Losi throughout my career and one of my favorites cars was the RC10L, which Losi designed the rear pod for. When getting back into the hobby I was going to go Yokomo since the guys that own and operate the track all drive them, but I went with Associated mainly because their office is near my house and AE Don personally helped me pick out everything I needed. I'm glad I went with Associated mainly because of the amount of support I have access to from drivers to setup sheets and from people like AE Don. I like the way the Associated car handles and how easy it is in my opinion to maintain. My sponsorships through the mid 80's to the mid 90's were the Hobby Bench Raceway that I was part of the team for, Twister Motors, Pro-Line, Saiko Racing Products, Stealth Batteries, Tekin, and Technacraft plus a few other minor ones that came and went. I was never a factory driver but I've always leaned towards Team Associated cars. It really comes down to what is comfortable to you as a driver and how the car you choose works for you. I'm sure every car can be setup for any condition, but maybe not for every driver's style of driving.

With the change back to TLR I'm hopeful for a new video on this topic.

Ryan, thank you for your videos and also for an amazing list of your parts and other resourse! That's very useful.

Hi Ryan, as a new comer to the hobby/sport I appreciate your insight and your content! Keep up the great work.

Well done video! How do you only have 4100 subs? Well spoken, solid personality and content.

Awesome videos. I'm geeking out over the tool box you have in the background. I have teh exact same one from when I started RC Racing n the late 80's. Keep up the great work & videos.

My first RC,, was also,, a jrxt... And I still have it running, 💯🤙🏽

I am just jumping back into the hobby and it's always been my aspiration to own an Associated buggy. I owned a Tamiya Hornet and another buggy back when I was a teen for racing around with my friends but Associated cars were always way to expensive for me. Jump ahead several years and while the Associated gear is still quite expensive, I've got a grown up job, (yay adulting!). I also found out there's a local dirt track. I asked a lot of the guys on the track forum what they drove and a lot of them drive TLR still so there's still a bit of a following. I was very close to getting a TLR. What's shocked me was how advanced the hobby has gone and really the sky is the limit to how much someone can spend on this stuff but there's also a very healthy used market for stuff too. I'm excited about the advancements that's gone on in the hobby and I wonder if its gotten to a point where things have gotten too expensive and complex that it will hurt the hobby.

Same thing as you. Been driving for... 20 years off and on. Always with Losi. The thing that improved me the most, bar none, driving and tuning *any vehicle* was learning; physics, geometry, statics and Dynamics, then moving into Aerodynamics/'Fluid Dymanics' and some chemistry. Then racing Karts for a few seasons and applying that to a body in motion through automotive engineering textbooks. I can now tune any sprung mass with wheels under it. TLDR: It's not the chassis, its not the brand, its the understanding of the mass you are working with and its relation to slip angle through its transfer of weight through its normal forces in a 3 axis plane. :) Neat vids btw! New subscriber :)

Ryan could you do a video on basic track driving and turn and jump position with proper throttle and steering control I've driven in parks parking lots and on streets but never on a track could you do a mini series thanks😊

Great vids. Can you show off you’re old school rc stuff from the background? I think I seen pan cars and some cool radios. Also that big tackle box is awesome also.

I'm on the west coast, I have the b6d and 22-4 tlr, I drove the tlr for a few months , it was back up, I now run my b6 full time , feel it's more tunable ,the support here is pretty good as associated is near by . I also feel the b6 can be driven harder , I also know that with some work the tlr works very good. matter of what your more comfortable with, thanks for your posts.

half the race i do in on-road and off-road, half of the people have associated .the fun with that is you can get help for setup and even someone can help you with spare parts if you dont have them at the track

I made the switch to AE based on the support system and drivability. I will always love TLR though.

I own both the b6d and the 22 4.0 sr one thing I loved about the losi was all the upgrades I did to my D came in the box for my 22 4.0SR

I switched for same reason but back in the late 80s . I and a friend made chassis for the losi trk because we found that stiffer chassis made a better handling trk. We showed it to Gil and father and they said it won't work because flex in chassis works better. My friend and I placed 1st and 2nd in all our stock races for the year. Gil and father copy idea the next year.

Same experience. Been racing since I was about 12. Had both, started with an rc10t, and had almost all losi after that point. Fell out of the hobby. Got older, bills and life happend. Got back in it and started with the 22 platform. Could never get the thing to stick. Never felt confident driving it. Tried everything I could to get it to work. Thought maybe i was just past my prime and time to move on. Bought a b6d and immediately went from miserable to enjoying the hobby again. Been happy ever since!

U said it right... Same experience up here n Philly... Keep it up!!

I made the switch to associated as well. I felt the associated matches my driving style more than my TLR. I also noticed the support in Florida favors associated, compared to any other brand.

My story is almost exactly the same. I grew up racing the heck out of Losi stuff and loved the cars and the company. Then life happened and I had to get out of racing for awhile. Fast forward to present time, I was so impressed by the Associated cars, the company, and all the support that I never even thought about buying a TLR. Just like you said, Losi holds a special spot in my heart but they just aren't what they used to be.

Made also a switch in 1/8 buggy, from JQ to kyosho, I felt so lonely on the track with absolutely no support with a car that needed so much maintenance and cash to be in a good shape, now with the kyosho cars, a almost unique setup works with minor tweaks on almost all tracks, their cars are a bit more expensive but I don't need to spend so much money anymore on parts ,could even go out for a practice day with no spares in my box. And I get so much more support from other kyosho drivers .

Is that the RJ Speed Legend in the background? Awesome videos, and awesome setup there.

my losi is planted all down to setup, i tried a b6 didn't feel great to me but every body has a different driving style and thats what it all comes down to.

I have almost the exact same story ran Losi as a kid JRX-pro, JRX-T, LXT, etc stopped doing it in the mid 90s and found the hobby again about 4 or 5 years ago. My first stop was to TLR for a 22 buggy(rear motor) and a stadium truck. I raced them for a while and it was fine but when the B4.2 came out it was game over. That car was so good directly ouf of the box I hated to switch but that was the end of TLR for me. The AE cars just "work" out of the box and the TLR cars as much as they continue to improve them, there's always something holding it back. The latest 4.0 vehicles seem to be well sorted but not enough for me to switch my cars over. Here in CA, AE also pretty much is favored but lately Yokomo and even Xray have been showing their stuff. Gotta run what works for you.

My story with TLR is almost the same. When I returned to racing in 2015 with TLR gear, the support in the land down under was just not there. I moved to Team Associated and will most likely never move back. Once Team Losi lost Gil Losi things started going south. Even with him returning to Team losi/TLR in 2019 it maybe too little, too late. So many others have stepped up.

Oh man out here in AZ, its all about them Losi. At my local track, the Losi's seem to be more hooked.

I have found that certain cars require you to push them more or less to go fast. It is about what you are comfortable with and you can always improve both your driving and your setup to match.

I race in Texas on a low grip off road and my tlr 8 4.0 i love how it handles off power and how much speed it has

For me... it is support, support and did I mention.... support? I look at others and always come back to AE. Still new but love everything they offer in way of parts availability to even sending me a part that I could not find for free just because they had an extra lying around. Love it!

Same here i raced as a kid on road of road but my main car was my RC10 then team car then worlds car i never owned a Losi until just recently. Its been over 20 years and life gotbin the way lol. i purchased a TLR 8ight 4.0, i like both Associated and TLR , i still find Associated vehicles are very easy to tune. My TLR 8ight 4.0 is awesome.

Great honest point of view

I was always more of an on road driver, but for the very few off road excursions I was able to enjoy, I did so with an RC10 CE. It was amazing how much attention AE paid in updating the original design to make it a contender for its day. Losi was really competitive in the early/mid 90’s, but as it was mentioned already, they may have dropped off somewhat after the sale to Horizon. I’m glad that AE has maintained their long standing reputation, despite the merger with Thunder Tiger years ago. I’d like to think that Cliff Lett’s long-standing involvement with the company has a lot to do with that. As for my on-road experience, the bulk of it was with my faithful RC10L(the pan car class needs to make a comeback, dammit!), and with a TC3 that didn’t get much track time due to the scene all but falling apart in the Miami-Dade county area shortly after 2000. I have to admit, having recently found your channel and going over your older videos, I’m getting quite nostalgic... and the itch, haha! EDIT: Nice Plano tackle box in the background... that is the Garage of Champions, my friend! Still have mine, and has held strong for me since 1990. 👍🏼

Ryan...its been about 2 years since this vid. Your much more experienced now and you probably have the skill to set pretty much anything up. Have you considered other brands? It would be cool to see you driving for someone like Yokomo or Tekno; so you can spread some knowledge and setup...there are enough associated drivers:)

I love my TLR 22 5.0 I can run 19 second lap times constantly and I feel super planted on the ground and I also like how it handles all though ever since I got the buggy I’ve been having trouble with the steering I broke the servo horn today but that was my fault

I've got a few years on you but I too am considering RC racing again. I want to say it's been 20 years since my XXT and me have been on the track. I really like what Associated did with the Associated 1/10 RC10B6 Club Racer Brushless Kit. I've always been a Losi guy but I think I am going to have to try Associated this time around.

Yeah I’ve always had associated.all the tracks here In Arizona are mostly high bite Clay they recommended the 22.4 because it comes with both lay down and stand up transmission . Trying to deciding if I want to go with B6D or 22.4 currently have an associated b4

what outside track did you run at? the one by the flea market? my opinion is losi is better, I used to run both. now I'm running something completely different. good vid 👍

You have to try the 22 4.0 you might change our mind again I drive a b6 but I've been ruming my friends TLR 4.0 and I think I'm switching but I race indoors at Trackside in Wisconsin.Great vids keep them coming thanks.

I ran Losi for off road as well started with a JRX2 then updated to a Pro Se (had a Kyosho Lazer ZX for 4wd buggy still have that one) bought a XXT cr as a last hurrah when I left my job at a hobby shop in 1997 & RC in general for a while. On road was a different story had a few different versions of the Team Associated RC10L (including a .12 Nitro conversion) right up until the Touring car craze of the early 90’s for electric ran Tamiya & Kyosho till that first TC3 was released just in time for me to get back into RC in the 2000’s left again and then Axial and Traxxas of all things pulled me back into it a few years later this time more play than hardcore racer but still run on road & off just picked up a B6D since my last purchase of a Losi SCTE was a bit of a disappointment and parts support just isn’t there at my local track/hobby shop

I starting Losi then I switched to Hobao & NOW I'm switching to Kyosho TKI Series 1/8 nitro buggies ya! ☺️

Being new guy in Savannah I thank you!

I feel the same, but on astro. My main track switched to astro this past spring and the TLR buggies just don't seem to have a good carpet/astro presence. Hell, TLR actually seems to be behind in designing a good carpet/astro kit. It's like they don't even acknowledge there is a lot of people who run on these surfaces. The 22-4 seems to do ok, but not their 2wd. I love my 8ight E 4.0, but can't see myself owning one of their 10 scales anytime soon.

I fell the same way too. For 20 years I’ve been a Losi person, but it seems the company has kinda pulled away from what they once were. I have too made the switch to Associated products because they suit me better today.

I haven't raced since the LOSI XX days LMAO Couple months ago picked up a Arrma Kraton 6s and it's great. BUT that thrill of the chase on 10th scale buggy races I miss! Wish my location had more indoor tracks. AZ summer's suck LOL Maybe I'll have to start looking into that again.....

The video quality is wonderful just gained a sub out of that alone

Off topic but not :) Think your videos are great! You're doing a fine job with creating content! I hope your channel gains more traction! What camera gear do you film with? So clear! Thanks for sharing your adventures thus far! -Ryan

When I was young I had an associated T2, so when I returned to rc I of course jumped back on the associated train. I still believe that from a support and parts availability perspective team associated is the best, of course I am racing some of the same tracks that Ryan is. I recently got a b6d and b6 having never raced 2wd buggy and I have to say I love them both and have been doing well with them. However, for ebuggy and 4x4 Sct I made a switch to Tekno. My RC8 never gave me much confidence and my Prolite 4x4 cost me a ton to get competitive and was so fragile I was almost scared to drive it hard. I bought a Tekno sct410.3 and immediately fell in love with it. So much that I also switched to the ebuggy as well. Although there is huge sacrifice in support locally, the quality and durability of the Tekno can't be beat. I will comment in detail if anyone is interested.

can you please do a video on tuning for the track and what to look for and how to tune it out ? i.e. When the car is understeering do this..... when the car is nervous in a straight line do this......

I'm thinking about going to the 22 4.0 from my b6. im the opposite. i felt the new 4.0 was planted and super easy to drive. but on the flip side i can drive my b6 harder and push faster. but i am totally convinced that ae and tlr arw perfect opposite cars. hell one guy at my track has both cars the 4.0 and the b6. toss up

Brother man, how about a video of your cars and personal setups?

not exactly related whatsoever but are you running 4 degrees of rear toe-in on that Stadium truck hanging on the wall? Looks like a lot of rear toe-in, are you running a very mod motor or something to need that much toe.

I began with a Tamiya Boomerang and have had PB, Losi, Associated, Schumacher & Yokomo cars through the 1990's. After a 16yr break i restarted in RC with a used TLR 22 2.0 which goes OK After watching a bunch of cars on our outdoor clay track, i think the X-Ray is one of the better 2WDs now. It seems to be quick with conservative lines and forgiving when you make a mistake.

I own a B6D and I’m totally with you because I was given the chance to drive someone else’s TLR 22 4.0 but it was different and difficult also I also believe that the B6Ds look cleaner but that’s just my opinion.

Even up here in the north east ae has the great support and to me that's the biggest thing.

Ryans back on the winning team i see going back to TLR

Thank you for your opinion, definitely valid as AE does support more. I have TLR and love it, but same thing..lol I left cause of kids but and was like you gone for awhile now back and missed it, TLR brand change and owned as a sub company. Maybe it's always been like that but, yes not the same thing as it was. My area since I recently returned feels like Associated guys are pretty rough and opinionated. I like to not run with the norm per say..lol as my area is like 3/4 AE and 1/4 TLR. So us TLR guys/girls seem always on a different table. And both brands are amazing company's I just want it to stay competitive between the both and not the other dominating the other out. My son does drive AE though so I'm committed to both either way:) Sry binge watching your vids..and I'm a Ford guy just sayin..lol

Well firstly welcome aboard I know the feelings that you speak of I too am returning to rc racing but outdoors or dirt lol 4wd SC trucks and from back in the day things still ring true light racer / car truck buggy. The feeling you expect response to input. Etc good luck maybe we will cross paths sometime on a track lol

Now what about the latest associated rc8 buggy? Is it worth jumping into and running?

This totally makes sense, while I see allot of TLR cars, I never see vendor support. This is the same reason I am looking to switch to Mugen Seiki or Team Associated myself

The best touring car for me has been the Schumacher... Same situation tried Losi , Associated. Schumacher hooked up well, the easiest to drive, the most controllable.. For me in South FL..

Ryan, is there any parts from the later model of rc10 that is compatible to b4.2? I just started racing this year. and bought used once for i only have low budget

this is gonna be a great silly season

Just discovered your channel. What do you think of Traxxas/Arrma? Are you solely a racer? Do you own a bashing truck?

im in upstate new york all outdoor tracks and its all team associated as well

I went from b4 to kinwald an matt francis an mbx xr works(mugen) to having a kyosho mp9tki 3 an im very happy with the kyosho an even did rb6 kyosho but i dont run it alot just indoorz on carpet offroad 17.5 just to stay on a wheel an control nitro finger

My question is which TLR was he running the 4.0 ? 2.0? Have they gotten better?

Took out my old xxxt, that I used to race, so I could show my daughter the ropes. Got a could of laps in and the diff gave. I can’t find the parts to save my life. Associated rc10t2 diffs are readily available...

Always Good videos

Cool video. For me brand doesn't faze me. If anything, i've found a good setup helps. Although i do remember helping a friend try to setup his Kyosho V1RRR nitro tourer. No matter what we tried it would handle like a brick on a spring, but i found my Xray NT1 easy to setup, so sometimes it can be the car.

just bought 2 b6d buggies what size motors should I buy? 540 or 550 size?

i used to have a losi xxx sct and i couldnt get any traction in loose dirt no matter the setup or tires. i didnt like it so i sold it. im sure on high traction hard clay tracks it would be fine but on loose low traction it was terrible. i will always be puzzled by it. believe it or not my high cg slash was alot faster on the same track.

Ryan I agree 100% I have been associated loyal for 10 years now and im currently racing in UTAH which is alot of indoor and carpet tracks. I thought about making a change to TLR however i have seen the same in lack of support from the so called TLR sponsored drivers. I will continue to stay with associated.

what is a low bite conditions on power grip? please educate me im new to rc thanks in advance!

Hi Ryan, have you ever tried XRAY? How was it?

Welcome!! To the cool side of the pillow 😂

My dad has always raced associated with on road and has always dominated the competition. Unfortunately the rc on road scene has died down almost completely down here in Florida. The only place that I know of now putting on on road rc racing is a shop near Orlando once a month. So we stopped racing around 2000. I personally think it’s whatever works for you and your driving style.

We got to have comun sense, what works for me may not work for others, that is why I say all rc brands are good, as long as you have fun with them.

Just switched back to Associated after a 5 year hiatus. They both make a good racing platform but Associated's geometry (in general) suites my driving style more. I like twitchy cars and no matter what I tried to do with my 22 2.0 and 3.0, I could never achieve this feeling I was looking for. I was competitive as hell, but I couldn't get any Losi car to handle the way I wanted to on the fly at other tracks. Although I think Losi makes an easier car to drive right off the back, I like the system Associated has made. I never understood ShortCourseWorld's older video on the two sets of mind between Losi and Associated until now all these years later.

Had a b3 back in the day

Funny...I started with associated when the rc10t first came out and I was about 10. I eventually ran the rc8 and rc8t years later. I left rc, and now (about 10 years leter) I'm getting back into racing but now I'll be running an 8ight-x because southern California seems to have way more tlr support than ae.

Ryan thanks for the info, I've heard a lot on this subject. any one can go onto associated web site and look the team drivers set ups, and they work, and are very simple to tweak. not to long ago I found a video, some one that I can't remember, that stated that tlr dose not make certain parts or information available to Joe blow. I don't if that is true or not. I might be a little parcel to associated because that is all I've ever driven since the mid 80's, and the always been easy for me to set up. thanks Chrisi

i made the switch too, just picked up a b6.4d

I just purchased a b6d at for a steal, personally I had moved away from associated years ago, mainly because of lack of support, you mention support in this video, are you just talking about racers? How is product support?

would you even consider a schmacher car? I understand the availability issue, but my understanding is grip is massive with those cars?!!!

I went from Associated to Odonnell. Then they stopped making the Z01b sg. But i still run it...

losi was my brand back in the day but I feel that the company is not the same after the ownership change. I am looking to buy team associated in the future.

hey ryan do you have any 3.0 diff parts i could gt from you.

I drive both they all have there pros and con

I have recently found you on youtube and I just can't believe you have "only" 9K subs. My story is about the same as yours, I have raced only Losi cars since the 90's with the XX and XXX series ( I still own the XXXT-Mf2 and XXXBK2 and will never sell them ) and have just come back to the hobby after a 10 year break. The first car I bought recently is a slightly used TLR 8ight-E 3.0 and it's absolutely amazing. But I feel like TLR has lost a bit if it's former soul and glory. Looking for a 1/10 2WD now but I am tempted to switch to AE but sofar I just couldn't do it. Maybe I'm just a Losi/TLR guy ... I don't know what to do because AE doesn't feel right in my mind... yet. I need time I guess.

Had a RC10 Gold pan in the late 80's when the JRX2 came out........Used to smoke all those guys outdoors.

I am just getting back in after about 6 years not racing and am noticing the same thing with TLR. There seems to be zero driver support from TLR and I think Horizon hobby is making things worse. I got an RTR Losi 8ight. I think I will be getting my race kit from Associated.

I was an Associated guy from day one 1986. Losi and Trinity were the bad guys. then I met Joel Johnson one day at Leisure Hours in Joliet IL. He was approachable and always took the time to give help, Even if you weren't driving his brand. Brian Kinawald was there and he was in approachable arrogant. Why am I telling this story from the early 1990's because Joel Johnson had the same kindness and approachability that you bring up. I am too old and now I only Drive Tamiya Semi truck/trailers. but you can choose to be Kinwaldo or to be a Joel. the hobby needs more Joel Johnsons.

try adding a front spoiler

I know I'm late, love your videos, I started back in 1988 I was a 15 year old kid, my. first car was a kyosho ultima, I took a while built a replica of the joel Johnson worlds car, it was always associated vs kyosho, Jrx2 , I use to race with Kelly lunsford, in Oregon 😃, when he just started his business, In the 90s got into it for a while I bought the Kyosho triumph, I dominated with that car for a while , got out of it again ,recently got back into it , discovered lipos / brushless 🤩 it’s like stepping out of a time machine now a days , I love the rb5, rb6, cars , I picked up a old b4.2 love it , I fought associated for years , but it’s a much better car , handling , accessibility to parts , everything , I’m a very nostalgic person , you get attached to certain things when your a kid , it’s hard to change , my dream has always been to design my own car 1/10 buggy , I’ve been a machinist , quality inspector , hopefully I can bring some magic back to the hobby I have alway loved ,

I'm just a assoiated guy, i drove a tlr 4 and b6 and assoiated just has that perfect feel for me

I’m not a pro insider but I do know some stuff… so Associated sold into tower hobby which sold into horizon hobby. This was around the time of this video. This explains why associated has the same steering/suspension geometry as you find on Arrma vehicles “owned by horizon”.. this pivot ball design vs the old steering block design is that pivot ball design put the front tires on their very outer and inner edges of the tires when it turns left/right. You loose the center contact patch under turning power but for a rear drive vehicle, there’s a different case which I can’t explain Bcs I’m awd not rear so idk. I do believe that losi is now THUNDER CAT or something like that Bcs losi also sold into another company and mayyyybe it’s also Horizon too now, not exact on that but I did read something about it.. I’d like to hear more about this history from someone who knows more.

Anyone else done a recent brand switch? If so, what made you pull the trigger!?

Well thats bad for tlr it seems as adam drake left so did the support im here in east coast way north of Florida an i race indoors for winter an summer is all nitro an 1/8 electric buggy cause the tracks this way dont want to run buggies indoor an for a few yrs they did but had to use 11.1 volt battery just glad your still into the hobby yes its expensive but thats how it goes to be competitive in this hobby an racing in general

Sucks only support we have locally is traxxas. I hate traxxas but that's all we have here so I have to mail order everything if i break parts. I live my hpi e firestorm flux and my savage flux. And dont break a lot of parts but when i do ebay