Part 2 of Todd and Marty's night as they come full circle, all question about Todd and Marty and their saga......answered. Incredible dialogue, mirror images.....my fave!!!!!!!!
This is the strangest thing I have ever seen. Like ever. Or read. ! A bit disturbing. Thank you Roger for not allowing a romance storyline between these two. !
This is amzing!!! I love these characters..not romantically but the chemistry they have...love/hate/respect/fear...it's like a greek tragedy...The acting... I could watch RH and SH forever!!!! I just love them..LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I watched this show from 1984-2012 when it ended, and this was the best scene ever done in the 25+ years I watched this show. The way he finally stayed the night (on the couch) was probably the most amazing "full circle" this story could have taken. NO ONE could have seen this coming when the "Spring Fling" storyline started (probably not even SH & RH). It was the embodiment of the "what if" scenario of life. How one seemingly insignificant decision and moment can change or alter your life forever. BOTH Todd & Marty were always left wondering what might have been had he made a different decision that first time and stayed with her. He is basically confessing "if I'd only stayed, our whole lives may be different now". Their sadness and regret is palpable, and the acting freaking amazing!
Great comment. It is the ultimate what if b/c if Todd was this way back when they met u could see how these 2 damaged lonely people could have built eachother up & instead they tore eachother to shreds. Todd leading a gang rape then Marty fighting back getting Todd confessing & him going to prison escaping & literally now the hunted prey like an animal just as he trapped Marty as predator. I truly love how he didn't stay was all about sex here he stays on the couch all about caring. When Marty tells him " I just want u to know I'm not afraid " I always thought she meant of life going forward but I think she really means not afraid of him in her home in a vulnerable position of sleeping upstairs. Brilliant. Also what's sad is in a way it took the rape for Marty to grow up survive it & triumph. On the other side it forced Todd to finally think a lot in prison & to get the therapy he desperately needed from his dads abuse & his mom leaving. If the rape never happened Todd s rage & unchecked deep feelings of fear of ever caring would eventually have gotten him into trouble it's clear he was bright always esp about human behavior as he learned somehow that being the best at football got his Dad to lay off & brag & somewhat like him only cause it brought Peter attention like " Wow ur sons so great what a great job u did " & I'm sure got him more clients w/ a local football star son . So all those years football gave Todd some peace from his monster father. It also kept Todd's anger in check as he had no record or done anything bad yet by the age of 22 in college ( the show never brought up Carol swift again as that was just a plot device to get Nora to turn on her clients finally but when Todd would list his crimes honestly this never came up so I'm not counting it either esp since Todd's story was not fleshing out enough yet ) so I think once he saw football ending soon & when he got thrown off the team & out of college & his father we heard from Todd's end going nuts on him & Todd writing loser next to his frat picture he just lost his mind. Remember b4 this he told Marty cause of football an alumni was hooking him up in town w/ an easy well paying job & away from Peter. He literally told Zack & Powell he felt like spring fling was his last night as a free man. He was serious as going home a college failure & w/o football as he was a year from graduating w/ no job from that alumni Peter would surely have cut him off financially & he'd be literally getting some minimum wage job. He needed a release of all his rage panic desperation & Marty sadly was it. I also think he probably had a real thing for her all semester as we know they were in calculus together & when she took him home so easily I mean she literally fell in his lap . He didn't expect her to be crying & begging him to stay & hold her. So that's where the freaking out came. Im sure as he intimates here he wanted to stay & have a dating relationship with her but yes he freaked & told her to comb her hair & took off. He does clumsily cause he really had no guidance from his obnoxious dad how to woo a woman & Marty frankly was way too hard on him for not staying. If he had it's hard to say if she would have dated him b/c she seemed turned off by wealthy frat boys but he had a chance at least. Plus I think Marty even taking him home for a one nighter would have made her feel ashamed & unfairly would distanced herself from Todd. Cause she really way way overreacted that a obe nighter didn't stay. She brought it up several times & he apologized to her several times. Their was one time in rodis when suede rejected her & Todd came over asking to take her out & treat her nice but unbeknownst to him she started flirting w/ him & hitting back on him just to make suede jealous & todd got that when she called later & when he got to the phone she hung up on him. So b4 the rape Marty was unnecessarily really mean to him. So Todd kept obsessing on " man if i stayed she'd be with me " & so he pushed harder she'd reject him harder & it just all came to a head. If Marty knew this Todd who didn't evolve at all b/c of the rape she'd fall for this Todd. So it is such a tragic road they took. Also Todd if he let his guard down also would have evolved but he didn't so Marty was already done with him. So sad.
This scene is so beautifully done and amazing. Such great acting & insights into these two characters and a bit sad how we can see what might have been if todd had stayed the night and didn't rape her. The pained expression on his face when marty talks about her sad childhood. Esp when marty says " u know what's really scary how alike we really are ,you and me " incredible. And todd saying " u take things out on urself & I lash out maybe it's a girl boy thing " and marty quietly says " maybe" the chemistry between these two was off the charts. Its too bad Malone and co. Didn't realize how great these two were and he obviously regretted it bc he tried to pair them up. The actors refused & I don't blame them. Not only was it a rape but a gang rape that was very seriously shown the brutality the degredation & humiliation done whicj caused so many rape victims to pen letters thanking the show for dealing with such a terrible thing . To pair them would have been really a slap in the face to.such an incredible very intense and real story . I still wish he never led that rape so wr could have seen marty and todd as a couple. Susan just came to life in scenes with Roger way more than any love interest they paired her with. The todd thay saved marty and talked fireside is one she could have fallen for .
This is one of THE MOST amazing scene EVER on any soap JMO!! Susan & Roger just brought so much raw pain & powerful acting to ever scene they shared...We will NEVER WITNESS MAGIC like this again. It's almost as if you are watching a tragic Greek play. Everyone has an opinion about T&M, for me he loved her but knew he could never take back the past or reveal his true feelings, he even said that to her once. Living with his sins and knowing he could never be with the one person who understood him!
Just mind blowing really, mirror images indeed~Marty hurts herself & Todd hurts others. Sounds like understanding & full circle indeed~ I forgot why Todd jaunted over to Ireland...
@inubrat88 both Susan Haskell and Roger Howarth said they were sooner quit than have their characters become involved. Just because the rape was so brutal and spent over two years telling the story
@bjujubee Once again you got it dead on!! They are so good the characters and the actors...Did RH really leave because they were headed for a Todd/Marty romance? eww the fans would never allow it and I think Susan would have quit as well.
the level of emotional rawness and honestly in this dialogue and these performances is something you rarely see in soaps today. you don't really get to see deep male/female bonds in the genre that don't inevitably lead to (an often forced) romance. but it's really something special that todd, a character who was defined by having raped someone, gained some of his most profound character growth though non-sexual/platonic relationships. blair and tea always tended to enable todd because they loved him, but marty, viki, and starr never took his shit and thank god rh insisted on never "redeeming" todd. he and susan haskell are on another level here.
I agree. The writers were always trying to find ways to put these 2 in scenes my cousin made a great point that Marty should have gotten pregnant from the rape. It wouod be made Todd's & imagine how riveting that would be ? Without ever pairing them. Like I'd love to have seen what happens in real life sadly how a rape victim keeps the baby. In fact Blair herself was a child of rape so imagine that angle. So I recalled b/c this story was done so well clinically & emotionally Marty was given the morning after pill so at the time they were not sure they were even keeping Todd & they didn't want people who watched that detail to think the morning after pill doesn't work ( in 1% cases it doesn't) like I'd even wonder legally since Todd was convicted of rape if he'd have to give up all rights to the child. Also Marty was so lonely w/really no blood relatives except that witch aunt I could see her really loving an unwanted baby from rape. I'm just saying the writers were desperate to keep these 2 tied w/o romance a baby of rape would have been fascinating & Susan would have played the hell out of that.
At the time all this happened I didn't have internet or buy soap mags or anything so I never knew why actors or actresses left the show. Good for RH sticking up for his character.
Want to add one more thing to this scene. Todd grimacing when Marty said " or I hang onto people who could care less about me like my aunt " todd must have been thinking how he did the same with peter manning. This scene is beautiful just in terms of the acting & todd finally saying why he raped Marty. He was kicking himself for walking out on her when she asked him to stay & hold her after they had sex. After he realized he had feelings for her & he tried several times apologizing & asking for a chance to be a couple but Marty kept shooting him down for walking out. Plus she says here he was just a warm body. Todd had a major case of unrequited love but he was so screwed up in the head instead if just accepting it & maybe just trying to be her friend & be patient he gang raped her. He was so twisted that he could not make Marty want to be with him.
Agree with everything you said but I don't think Marty was 100% truthful when she said she used Todd as a warm body and it didn't matter who she was with. If it really didn't matter it wouldn't have stung so much that he didn't stay.... She might have been unaware That she was really developing feelings for Todd but I think she was..
@419517 I think the TPTB wanted to pull another Luke and Laura,which became a supercouple after the fact that Luke raped Laura. I'm glad that RH and SH didn't cross that line with there characters.
This is what real soaps of made out of. the remake and the rapemance with St John and Susan was one of the worst written soap storylines in history of the soaps and it killed OLTL off the map for good. I can imange rape victims forgeting their rapist to the point they are sleeping with them ... Just disgusting how bad soaps have got after the 2000's
I don't get why everyone seems to think that if a man and a woman have a strong connection that they have to be paired. Just because feelings are there doesn't mean that they have to be acted on in a romantic way. Todd had a forbidden love for Marty, but he polluted any passion that could've been (and he was totally aware of that fact). Love and passion are seperate emotions and even though they both eventually felt love for and understood each other, the passion had become strictly prohibited.
Marty I realized isn't totally honest here about taking things out on herself & Todd responds he lashes while she hurts herself. Actually Marty is a lot like Todd more than they are saying. Marty def knows how to lash out. Remember how she ruined Andrew Cassie & Billy's lives for a year ? Andrew rejected her after she came on to him over & over. She constantly lasted out at people. She went to ruin Cassie & Andrew's wedding had viki not cracked her one & physically had to restrain her til the vows were done. She also before the rape was absolutely over the top ciscious towards Todd. She took him home for a one night stand. She begs him to stay & hold her & he leaves. She acted like a jilted bride at the altar about it. Todd was confused b/c they only knew eachother from a class Marty goes right to his lap & tells him exactly what she wants when they get to her house. So she expected Todd a guy she picked up for the night just for sex & he obviously thought that was all she wanted & he barely knew her so him cuddling her in bed imo was something that probably seemed strange to him. They weren't dating or courting. So the next time she sees Todd she let's him kiss her Then starts attacking him verbally about how he didn't stay & to get lost. Another few encounters Todd apologizes asks If they coupd start over she only trashes him as an idiot a loser etc cause she was hot for that loser suede. Than Marty went to her usual when suede rejects her cause she is bombed out of her mind Todd comes over & says" if this guy is saying no I'm saying yes ill treat u nice what do u say " so he's telling her he would once again like to start over & take her out & treat her well. She does he move of hanging all over him to make suede jealous tells him she wants him to give her his frat pin & be her true love or something. Suede starts going off on Todd that he's scum Todd goes to confront him Marty just says to suede " u had ur chance now let me ve w/ my Date here * todd* she winds up leaving calls rodis asking suede to put Todd on the phone over & over Todd's all excited goes to the phone & she hangs up. So now she just used him to make suede jealous tells him she wants to date him than calls looking for him Then hangs up. Now Todd at this point should have ignored Marty & moved on but everytime after like the next day he comes to her house & she just insults him over & over. He tries to make conversation asking where her parents are she says dead & he tries to lighten the mood doesn't work he apologizes than says his parents aren't really there for him ( oh how we learn later) he talks again about dating how she can do better than suede that he & Marty are a lot alike & the same kind of people she again insults him. Then suede comes Marty is all excited & making dating plans while Todd is there. Literally the night before she was hitting on Todd & telling suede to go to hell. Todd even said something about her playing w/ his head. Then we get to the infamous calculus final. Todd begs her to help tutor him he apologizes again now about insulting suede. He also goes to apologize to Rachel cause of a comment she took the wrong way as Rachel in the beginning was the one who was very race conscious when w/ everyone. So Todd says he's sorry & marty makes fun of him for apologizing saying " oh it's Todd's 2nd apology Rachel get it while u can" & Zack rightfully says " come on Marty that's not fair " then Marty tutors Todd they seem to be getting along then he goes to kiss her when he makes a funny joke & she smiles. She again rejects him. Then some fan has a theory about Marty I think has merit. Marty suddenly was miss sweetheart when Todd failed & even said " boy we study all night I get an A u fail u must think I gave u a bunch of wrong formulas " funny Todd suspected that earlier in the day then Marty says it ! It's the sane as when she begged Todd to stay to help Patrick throwing him into a life & death situation where she knew murder & danger lurked everywhere. Funny after Blair accused her of this Marty goes to Andrew & says " maybe I subconsciously did put Todd in danger cause I still resent him from the rape" Marty again saying exactly what Todd & Blair said in the above sperate situations. Sounds right.
Why did the writers want them together romantically? After everything those two have been through...we could barely watch it with the fake Todd..why would they want to go there,,,is that really why RH left?
Starr did know she found out during TSJ's Todd at a school function maybe a dance these girls who were friends of a girl who liked Cole showed a slide show of Todd's crimes including the rape... TSJ 's Todd did not handle the fallout very well ( I watched the ep. online) The writers during this period were god awful!!
Я некогда не считала марти нармальной но чтобы разговаривать и обшатся с человеком который тебя износиловал и смотреть как другие носилует незнала что она до такой степени ненормальная
Can you believe knowing RH was coming back they fired Susan Haskell???? The writers should be fired!!!!!! The two greatest actors with the greatest chemistry! What the He!! were they thinking!!!
amynyc419 Part true! i agree its kinda disturbing, but that would make it even a more interesting challenge. Imagine Martys boyfriend is cheating, with Todds girlfriend (Blair?) and that could been something to work on... , especially if they ended up having a kid together, then that could definely been used to drive Todd and Marty together as a couple. More strange thing has happend... like ppl being back from the dead.
@DawnmariePW UGH! I guess that is a good way of putting it, but in my twisted mind I wish these two could have been together. But I applaud the actors for sticking to their guns and refusing to go the Luke*Laura route, despite the fact that I like L*L just fine. They just have such amazing chemistry that I guess the mind has nowhere to go but to think they must become a romantic couple. But in the land of reason, keeping them at arms length is best.
