*Are there any other hot water creatures I can keep in a 20-gallon aquarium? Are sterbai corydoras shy? Do angelfish eat cardinal tetras? Comment below if you've had personal experience with these fish!*
I had some angels that never got bigger than 5" top tip to bottom tip. A couple tried eating my neon's while others couldn't be bothered. Personally I wouldn't do a single angelfish in a 20G tall, good chance it would get to big. I would go with the rams and maybe trade the cardinals in towards rummy nose. Don't forget to check you plant species, most will wither away at the higher temps.
My centerpiece angelfish is super chill. He's happy as can be. He doesn't bother any of my fish, and they don't bother him. I have red dwarf gouramis, rummy nose tetras, cherry barbs, Julii Corys, and a super red bristle nose pleco.
Irene, this topic speaks to us so! We have a hot water aquarium:) Two actually, our main community tank and our quarantine. Warning, this comment will be long. But I want to answer/reply to what you had brought up in your video. Also, there is a video of ours in my video feed. It's a little old though and the tank has grown a lot since then. It also doesn't show it fully stocked with all the fish mentioned below. First off, we keep our 90gal right at 85F. pH is 7.2, GH 2, KH 4 and because it's planted we keep our nitrates right around 40ppm which seems to work well. I do 50% water changes every 7 days and it's well planted. Discus was a bucket list fish for us too and I was sooo scared to make the switch from angelfish. I will say though that initially we had a 55gal that I kept at 80F. We had 7 angelfish and various other community fish, including neons (which the large angels never bothered). It wasn't until I started the long, slow process of raising the temp to prepare for discus that the tank went south. Conditions were eventually perfect for the angels to breed and they dominated the entire tank. It was awful - what was a beautiful and peaceful tank became a tank of two angelfish who shoved every other fish to the edges of the tank. We had to rehome them to friends and the pair, who went together, never went on to spawn again. I've seen, like I'm sure you have, plenty of videos of discus with angels and I think it's beautiful, but not something I would consider for myself again:( We have two dozen rummynose in our hot water tank and they all seem to thrive. Their schooling behavior is so interesting and can be seen in my video. At the end of the day when the ambient room lighting is low they will school back and forth across the front of the tank. It's so fun to watch! They are various sizes too, which is interesting because they were all the same size when I added them. But they eat well, don't bother anyone and seem to thrive. Like fish MD, I lightly tap the tank before I feed and they come right up front when I do. In our tank, they occupy the mid to bottom of the tank. We have two dozen harlequin rasboras in the tank as well and I have enjoyed them more than expected. They too school and are beautifully colored, especially against all the green. Sometimes they school with the rummynose, sometimes not. They're bigger than the rummynose and have a different swim pattern to them. They don't go to the bottom like the tetras though and stay in the mid to upper level of the water. Very peaceful and also seem to thrive, also come to the top when I tap the glass. There are 5 dwarf neon rainbowfish and I was a little unsure how their addition would go. I love their color and size but they're fast. They integrated, so interestingly, right into the harlequin school and are often found together and haven't seemed to outcompete or cause any stress to others during feeding. They eat right from the surface where the rummynose and rasboras seem to wait for the food to fall. Interestingly, I had not realized the little group of 5 juveniles had bred during quarantine! Literally 17 days after moving them to the 90gal I found two fry swimming around the quarantine tank! It's been almost 6 weeks now and we have two baby dwarf neon rainbows:) One male, one female. They are so fun to watch in the morning. Every single day when the lights come on the males chase the females around and when they do they have the most striking yellow stripe light up down the top of their bodies - it almost looks electric. They have been a fun addition and seem to be thriving as well at 85F. Our centerpiece fish of course, is discus. We have a variety and I have yet to look back since owning them. The quarantine and medicating process is an important one for sure with these guys. If I could go back and do it all over I would have either 1) bought ALL the discus I intended to keep at the same time (which of course is expensive) so they could grow together, or 2) bought them all no smaller than 4 inches. It's true, the bigger ones will stunt the smaller ones growth. This might not matter if you're doing daily water changes (auto changes) but if not, those hormones have their chance to work. For a while there was a mated pair that kept spawning in the tank and they occupied about a 8 inch circle of space that they kept private but really didn't disrupt the tank otherwise. Nothing at all like the angels. And they will happily eat out of your hands:) Feed them lots of different kinds of foods too! They can get picky if you don't. We also have rams - three of them. A gold, an electric blue and a german blue. Unfortunately, most of the ones we bought all died and I'm just not sure why. Some did even before I began the med trio. It absolutely breaks my heart to have to euthanize fish or see them suffer so this process quickly wore on us. I bought 11 in total and have 3 who seem to be happy. But they are just so much fun to watch. They way they swim, their little personalities, and they love to explore all the spaces of the island aquascape. They too come to the front and not just to eat - they're curious! Maybe one day we will have more. The german blue and electric blue have paired and spawned once already, but not a great tank for babies. We have around 17 cordoras of various varieties. And YES - our sterbai, a large cory in our tank, is very shy. But so are most of ours!? We have panda, sterbai, false julii, swartzi, concolour, flagtail, bronze and venezuelans - all are happy and love sifting the sand. Interestingly, it wasn't until we added the 5 venezuelans that we found our favorites! These little ones are busy! They are like a little pack of puppies - always together and always seem to just be rooting around. They occupy every part of the water column and unlike the others, don't seem to mind us. They are always visible and look for food in every square inch of the tank, even the upper end of the aquascape. While I love all the corys I would have just bough a bunch of venezuelans had I know what I do now:) Many of these corys we have had for years. Of note, green lasers did not thrive in our tanks. Otos also did not seem to thrive. Of all we bought, nearly a dozen, we are down to two (I believe). One for sure. Not one we will buy any more of. I assume it's temp, but really just not sure otherwise. We love having them but they clearly don't thrive with us. We do however have a royal farlowella and it has been the most incredible little cleaner thus far! We even bought one for our hot water quarantine tank. I cannot say how impressed I have been with them, and they're so friendly. Their long tail whiskers (or whatever they're called) help us to find it at night:) I really considered adding a school of cardinals but after hearing of the shyness you mentioned am no longer sure! I will say though that the large number of fish in our tank did, and interestingly so, seem to calm the fish down when moved from quarantine. Safety in numbers! The quantity of stock also does not seem to bother the discus. I have one large mystery snail in both hot water tanks and they have done very well too. Lastly, we have three siamese algae eaters that have been with us since the beginning. We're convinced they'll live forever! They are skittish but will eat literally anything. Always enjoy your videos, this one just happened to speak right to us! Sorry so long, hope there was some helpful info in there - Justin
Thank you so much for your detailed experiences! I'll definitely have to look into Venezuelan corydoras because I'm tired of shy fish. Congrat on the baby dwarf neon rainbows as well; had no idea they could go that warm. I rarely see my clown pleco (as expected) but maybe one day I'll look into farlowellas - they're so cool looking!
I’ve kept several angelfish by themselves and never had any serious issue with aggression. I feel like their intelligence level really shines when they are by themselves. IMO they’re some of the most intelligent fish. When not in a group they spend a lot of time looking out of the tank and are quite interactive. One I had would come to the surface and let me gently pet him.
When you redo your tank, I suggest using a slightly different substrate. I tried a couple of different substrates but there's one that stands out as easily the best. Using a large media net or small laundry bag, fill the bag half way with a planted substrate like Fluval Stratum. Put the bag at the bottom and cap it with 1-2 inches of sand. My plants grew like never before! MD Fish Tanks uses this method as well, you can find it in a lot of his large aquarium builds for more detail. Good Luck! Another hot water fish I can recommend is the Bolivian ram. A bit of a twist on the original german blue
Female dantum owner for about a year plus now. Coworker gave her to me when just several months old. She's my showpiece for a 29 gallon. I thought she was a boring fish until I decided to go from 72/76 to 82/84°F. The personality changed almost immediately. Every once in a while she'll chase off my ornate tetras haha.
Find my sterbais to be less shy than the pygmies. Their coloring, patterns and eventual chunkiness are plusses for me, especially on a darker substrate. Orange fins pop. Great video as usual!
I’m a noob, but there are 3 things I was wondering about: 1. Will plants be okay at those temps? I keep hearing plants prefer cooler water. 2. I was considering an angel for my 29 gallon, but Cory said angels can get huge/tall. I think he said 12”! Maybe I misunderstood? 3. I recently saw some fully grown, “normal” sized corydoras in a tank (not dwarf or pigmy). I believe they were green aeneus. I was surprised how thicc they were. It made me realize I need to look for smaller corys if I’m gonna put at least 6 in my 29 gal. planted tank. Good luck!
Irene, I was just at a fellow hobbyist’s home and he had a stunning discus tank kept at about 84-86°, his mystery snails not only lived in there but grew to giant size! I think they like the warm water! He also kept lamp eye tetra and sterbai cory in there. Also, an Angel wouldn’t eat cardinal tetra in my experience and would be fine as a single centerpiece but I do wonder about it in a 20 gallon. Angels mature quite large as I’m sure you know well, but I had a standard fin gold marble that was every bit of 8” or more from the tip of his dorsal to the bottom tip!
I have an Angel fish in my community tank and he’s very docile. He did however chase around a tiny Mickey Mouse for a while when I first got it. I started giving him some Beta food (my Beta is also in my community tank) and he seems a bit less “hungry”. I have Gerami, zebra danio, Mickey Mouse, Dalmatian platy, black and gold platy, a black & white skirt tetra one of each, yellow tetra, some snails, a hill stream loach and 2 huge gold fish that I brought in for the winter. Everyone gets along fine. I did have more skirt tetra, but they were too aggressive. I couldn’t catch the last 2, but they must have wanted to stay, because they behave themselves. 😊
Hello. I have a 135 gallon planted discus display tank that houses 10 discus 9 Julia corys. I had problems with cardinal tetras disappearing so I switch to 30 yellow lemon tetras. Nerite snails can take the warm Temps if you don't mind the eggs. Finally my algae eaters are 6 ottos.
I actually have my mystery snails in a outdoor tank and im in flordia! The tank got to a crazy 88F, and my mystery snails were mating in those conditions.
Dwarf chain loaches are a great mini alternative to clown loaches :) a lot of the same loach behaviours and shape but a great size. They do eat snails.
Mollies can live in temperatures in the low 80's (80-82° F). These temperatures, however, are their breeding temperatures. Unless you want a bunch of fry, I wouldn't recommend them. Males are also somewhat agressive during feeding (at least, that's the way all my males behaved), so they wouldn't be good with other agressive/semi-agressive fish.
Congrats🎉 on 200k, Irene! That’s amazing! I have several of the species you mention together successfully. My angels only chase each other (leaving my cardinals alone), but they are in a 100g, so maybe there’s just more room. I also have 12 sterbais in there, and although gorgeous, are super shy in my experience. Again, maybe they’re just hiding from the angels (and Bolivian rams) but, in general, my cichlids only seem to notice and chase each other. Can’t wait to see what you decide on!
To add to Cory saying Angelfish can do good alone- Yes they can actually be very peaceful fish depending on the circumstances. I keep my angel in a full stocked 55gal and hes more docile than any of the other fish in there. He's kept with many of the fish you've listed that being my own lines of: Electric blue rams, my own line of Super red plecos, Neon and Cardinal tetras, Corydoras and Diamond tetras. If you're curious, my water parameters are: Medium to hard water, 6.8-7.2 PH, and low to zero Nitrate, Nitrite and Ammonia. Its also a planted tank.
New year same old fish here,super red bristle nose (always and forever) . Did bring in a small group of Chilli Rasbora with three Pygmy coryadoras for clean up. The most heavily planted tank I have tried.
In my experience, angelfish normally only have conflict with their own species, they don't really bother other fish, unless the other fish are VERY small. My neons and white cloud minnows do perfectly fine with angels, they get along pretty well. In general, angelfish are not very aggressive but they can be slightly bossy sometimes. I would recommend only getting 1, like you said, as a centerpiece. Mystery snails are definitely a top choice. They're amazing! 😀
My 55gallon, 82C planted aquarium houses dwarf chain loaches, neon tetras, ember tetras, gold tetras, black neon tetras, harlequin rasboras, pencil fish, a bushy nose pleco, oto catfish, bumble bee catfish and peppered Cory’s. Everyone like the temp and all have gotten along for about 1 year.
I’ve kept Upside down catfish up to 82 F, no problems. However, I had to give away my big fella because all the little catfish were disappearing overnight … Now that he’s gone, no further missing fish
It is so fun to 'dream' of one's future bucket list fish:) Cute video, especially your busy mystery snail:) Good luck with your fish goals:) I love your videos!
My Cardinal tetras hang out in front of tank. My sterba corydoras are extremely shy. I like keeping fish that are good in 73-75 degrees....but I am in awe of you looking at discus. I had a few in the 1980's....they didn't do well for me and I switched to angels.ove Angelfish they have really great personalities. Go for the angel....But a good rule of thumb to go by is if it fits in their mouth they will eat it! You are doing amazing!
Love your list! I have a few species at 79-80• in my 29 gallon are 9 rummy nose. They school so tightly! My danger noodles are always out and about! My clown pleco hides all day everyday. And catch glimpse at night… discus are my dream fish as well followed by South American cichlids
I have a pair of good sized angels and neon tetras. Never had any issues with any of the tanks they were in. I had heard that too but had already put them in. I don't even think about it now.
I keep a group of watermelon tetras (Hemigrammus coeruleus) in my discus tank (79-82F) and they seem to do well, showing displaying spawning colors every day.
How about nerite snails and I just introduced 30 lemon tetras to my 90 gal planted discus tank. You could definitely get 6 to 8 of them in your 20 gal.
I have 5 Panda Cories running at 85 with 5 cardinals, 5 rummy nose a clown pleco and five stenker red torquoise Discus. the pandas are doing quite well all in a 55. TDS ~200 PH 6.6
We live in Houston and I wanted Aquarium Design Group to set up and maintain a large discus tank in my home . I was upset how they discouraging they were about discus fish. I mean we were willing to pay. They just don’t want to bother.
Adult angels WILL eat small to medium cardinals. I watched one of my angels snap up a cherry shrimp today. Which are exactly the same size as cardinals. The only exception would be angels raised from babies with a school of full sized cardinals. They’d never register them as food providing thru weren’t starved.
Can't wait to see how your tank goes! Also this is the first list I've seen for a *hot* water tank since usually you just see lists for coldwater Personally I think the German blue ram would make a good centerpiece, they don't get too big but I hear they have very curious and explorative personalities, so it'd be fun to see how they do. Plus you've kept one before so it seems kinda fitting
angels can eat cardinals depends on the individual though. I've had my angel with black neon's for about 6 months now and he doesn't bother chasing them.
If all your other parameters are stable and within acceptable limits then the vast majority of fish with adapt to all kinds of temps, avoiding extremes obviously
This was really interesting information! I'm always looking in the other direction, trying to find species that can be happy around 68-72 ambient room temps so I can avoid heaters altogether. This is a great list of species that I should avoid. I can cite anecdotal evidence that angelfish will thrive (and breed!) without a heater in my central Florida ambient room temps. I don't think they REQUIRE higher temps like the other species on this list, it just speeds up their growth and puts them "in the mood" earlier and more often. 😁
I.e., when your heaters start to go bad and overheat....get these fish? So, don't throw out your overheating heaters....get these fish? Lol. Eye opening!
@@Handygrrl actually no, a broken heater can supposedly boil your fish and no fish survive boiling temps. Get these fish if you have a good heater you can keep higher or a higher ambient room temp (though I'm probably one of the few people that wouldn't mind a home around 80°F in an area with AC^^')
I kept a single Angel Fish with guppies when I was a kid (not the smartest parring, buuuuuut), and although he was a little bitey, I never actually had any fatalities due to the angel fish. He would’ve lasted longer if I had known more, but the adult guppies pretty much all outlived him. (Internet was a thing I had access to back then, so don’t judge 10yo for his mistakes)
I can 100% tell you, ANGELS WILL EAT NEONS AND CARDINALS! HOWEVER: That's only if you get tiny ones. I had 2 angels in my 29g with a school of about 14 small neons. I now have 6 adult neons (full size) and have lost no more. SO, if you get pretty well grown ones, the angel will leave them alone! This was only recently however, my father and I have kept neons with angels in this same 29 gallon off and on since I was about 5 years old. It's just a size ratio. If you get the angel small by the time it's big enough to consider eating the smaller neons, the neons will be fully grown anyways. With cardinals, you have less of a chance of this since iirc they get a bit bigger. My current 29 set up is one beautiful zebra angel, a school of full grown neons, and a few bronze cory's on the bottom and I've had no issues!
Those were the 10 I picked! I would also add E. African cichlids/catfish as well, as they prefer warmer rocky coastlines. Of course, I keep my fish at the lower end of their temp range and simulate seasons for them. Low 70s in the winter and mid 80s in the summer. For these fish, I would probably do mid to high 70s in the winter. My shrimp and hillstream loaches are not heated, so they drop to low 60s.
I am not sure how aggressive they are, but scarlet badis or peacock gudgeons. Both of these can handle at least 79 degrees. You could do a small school of ember tetras or chili rasboras as a contrast to the tetras you do have.
sterbais aren't shy. its just that they dont fight back when someone bullies them for food. otherwise they are pretty outgoing when kept in a proper school. and a regular angelfish wont eat cardinal tetras. altum angels will eat but altums dont go in 20 gallons anyway. also i would suggest you to change your substrate to some aquasoil like fluval stratum or ada soil. you can grow your plants much better in that without the hassle of using roottabs every now and then
Instead of clown loaches, may I suggest giving zebra loaches a try? I've have a group of 5 and they have the same puppydog personality and interesting social structure that I've heard clowns have but they only get to about 3 or so inches.
Definitely go with the rams or apistos, they will get along with the tetras and won’t make them food. Only concern is maybe the school of cories would become egg eaters.
My sterbai are not shy at all. Infact they just dont care and go about there business. And yes they can go warmer my heater is at 29 deg c i think thats 83 84 deg f
i have the sterbai corys and they are active and playful ... just dont get too close to them at first and afterwards they will always come and say hi ,,,, angel fish with cardinals i have that as well and i have probably lost most of my tetras so far due to genes ( low grade and they always die for no apparent reason ) .... neo cardinia shrimp and guppies can go up to 32c but this will affect their life cycle and shorten it alot !!!
The angels I raised with fry constantly in the tank, never touched my neons but another tank lived perfectly with them until they discovered they could eat them and yet another tank would eat anything they could fit in their mouths so it's a gamble. I honestly wouldn't chance it.
pretty sure you can keep a clown loach in there - sure they CAN get pretty big but it takes FOREVER i worked in an aquarium store for six years and never had anyone bring me a clown loach that had outgrown their tank - how many big ones have you actually seen?
Angelfish are the absolute pinnacle of the tropical fish since Discus are overrated and they're much hardier and are perfect in both singles and in groups of at least 3. They're the princesses of the tank and will be a bit aggressive but that's just their nature and they're probably like that in the wild anyway so it's a more affordable and easier alternative to discus which can be difficult to keep and pricey in general.
