Top 10 Games that Need to be Dethroned 

You guys need to do this list yearly and show what has changed. In 2019 this list would likely be drastically different

I would love to see a follow-up to this video on whether the game has now been dethroned and by what.

Zee's comedic timing was ON POINT this video. ..."hate to keep bring it up"

I think its actually very sad what Sam said about KDM. Dice tower is a source of information and review, and a reference to me. When I was thinking about investing money on KS campaign, I hoped to find something here, but coudn´t find even a note. Its a shame the hate coming from Sam, without even playing the game, just because of the theme. The miniatures on the base game aren t even offensive in any way, he sould inform himself. Besides a boardgame, a hobby that we all love, earning 13 milion bucks on KS should be a motive to celebrate.

Sam: "I'm not really a grumpy person..." LOL

Codenames: Pictures is actually harder to play as the codemaster, but on the other hand, it avoid the accidental uttering of the wrong word. In either case, I think the whole idea of "people sitting around staring at the cards" means your group hasn't yet learned to trashtalk and confuse the other team during their turn. Adds a whole bunch more stress. We don't even use the timer. The main appeal is that the game serves large groups of new players, and it's easy to slip people into the game if they arrive late.

Is it an American thing, this obsession with theme? As a Brit, my experience is that, in general, theme isn't all that important, in relation to the mechanics of the game.

As someone who worked at a newspaper that tried to get rid of the bridge column. The paper got so many complaints bridge was brought back the next week.

Chess is also public domain. Literally anyone can produce a copy and sell it.

- The big 'squares' that you can use with poker are called plaques. :) - I like Codenames, and I always tell people to think out loud. The codemaster can't react of course or think out loud but it's amusing nevertheless to hear the players associate. It doesn't need to be a silent game imo.

About Codenames: I think it's a fine example of the "magic" that a game can have. It goes against reason to resist playing or introducing people to it, because it's so widely loved. That said, I think I enjoy it only about half as much as everyone else, and less every time I play. I like it okay, especially at 4 players, but I'm stunned how much everyone likes it. I think the success of the game can be attributed to, primarily, 2 things(keep in mind, this is off-the-cuff, I really could talk about this for an hour): It's pretty easy to grasp, so players who don't want to invest mentally in a game get to the delightful struggle without much work. It rewards a shared sense of identity. Players always attribute their successes this way. It's never "I picked up your clue from this other clue and pieced the message together"(though that is totally plausible), it's usually "we're winning because we're all sports fans" or "I am just on the same wavelength as you". We had a game recently where it was men vs women. The women are all schoolteachers and/or moms, and the guys are a mixed bag. The women got a clue "Independence Day:2" (sketchy clue, I know), and immediately got "alien" and "fighter". While trying to throw them off the trail, I suggested "England", which they weren't considering. I thought it would be a big risk, might just be the right answer I'm tipping them off to. Instead I got blank stares and looks of confusion. Not one of them could imagine how England would have anything to do with Independence Day. When I clued them in later, they said "well, I guess. That's more about America than England", and got a look of "yeah, that's right" from all around. It wasn't a clever strategy, a successful communication, or an in joke. What won the day was a shared kind of outlook. You'll win if your team are all non-video gamers playing off the clue "Nintendo" and skipping word "cartridge" in favor of "crash". That feeling of being rewarded by seeing what you have in common with other people is powerful and resonates deeply.

Just a quick word about Chess-Boxing (from an old chess player). They're more closely related endeavours than you might think. Lennox Lewis, for example, is a strong chess player who funds after school chess clubs. I've never boxed, but I've read that they share core skills - delivering fundamentals under intense pressure, understanding movement, position and strategy, or increasing one's strength through training. What at first glance seems like a ludicrous idea actually makes a decent amount of sense. Just saying. Peace x

Sam said he never heard anyone say about how good kingdom death is, but that is all I ever hear about the game

How about a "Tremors" hidden movement game where multiple creatures need to find the humans on the surface? :D

Tom's #7 "I want a fast fun racing game that everyone is talking about." - after 6 years it's finally here, "Heat pedal to the metal"!

The good thing with Sentinels is that you are one hero, with Legendary you could be fielding four different heroes. And the other players are playing the very same heroes as you are. There's no personal investment, no role play as it were.

Chess Boxing is an Henki Bilal invention (real good French Bande-Dessinée creator and designer). It appeared in his comics in the late 90's and early 2000 and then was adaptated as a sport by fans. Great video, thanks !

Pure Trading? Chinatown!

Wow you kind of nailed the games that were iterated on over the past 4 years

Munchkin needs to be dethroned by an actually good game... I like the humour of Munchkin, but the game is waaaaay to long, and all the fun gets zapped out of it.

Tom: Thus games kinda old DETHRONE IT!Sam: This game has too much hype DETHRONE IT!Zee: This game is too long and fidly DETHRONE IT!

MONOPOLY! WHERE?!

I love it when Tom is ranting about scrabble meanwhile Zee is hopelessly trying to explain to Sam what “Qi” is 😂

"I want 'Words With Enemies'" Simpsons already did it. "You sunk my Scrabbleship!"

Oh man. Betrayal is my number one. That was a good choice.

Nothing will ever overthrow the god emperor of mankind. NOTHING

I love how he said Fury of Dracula was too complex to play with mom and dad, and it's the first board game I've ever managed to get my parents to play and want to play again.

What do you mean Tom? Stratego is literally chess but cool and fun and still has the same overall punch, its perfect!

"I hate a game I never played" I feel like you violated a reviewer code of ethics or something.

"They literally sell a Scrabble dictionary!" "Is it really a dictionary?" "No. It's just a bunch of words." (whispering) "So is a dictionary."

A feast for Odin is definitely the most Viking(y) game. Because Vikings were merchants in the first place

How can i find the music that was played in the end? thanks for help :)

Dethrone Scrabble? if your talking mechanics then Qwirkle. If you're talking words then letter tycoon.

As an avid chess-player (I do the daily puzzle on chess.com and the tactics training, I play online almost every day)... Chess needs to be dethroned. It has the highest throne of any game in existence: Internationally played at tournament level... respected as though it indicates a person's intelligence... openings, mid-game principles, endgame all analyzed and memorized and named... Any number of two-player abstracts could be just as idolized, memorized, and equated to a person's IQ; it is an accident of history that it was chess and not Hive or any of the Gipf games, etc. It's one of my favorite games, but it's really time for another abstract to take the stage. It's been time for that for hundreds of years.

If you want competitors for trick-taking games, I'd recommend the two most popular classic card games in Germany: Skat and Doppelkopf (double head). Skat is a highly technical game, where skilled players are almost guaranteed to win any hand but the most busted distributions. Doppelkopf is superficially familiar, but it is a much more chaotic sort-of co-operative game.

Zee...you described Royals when looking for a game to replace El Grande :P

If you ask Rahdo, Nations dethrones Through the Ages.

In regards to El Grande, isn't Zee just describing the Dice Tower Essentials game, Royals?

For me, Letter Tycoon is the game that dethroned Scrabble. Its core concept is exactly the same as Scrabble's (i.e., making words), but it does away with the board. The Scrabble board is, in my view, the source of all the frustration of the game: 1) lack of space necessitates the dreadful 2-letter words; 2) a person can snag the good multiplier spots just by luck of timing; 3) the unequal letter point system means that a bad draw can neuter your chance at scoring well, and it rewards placement of particular letters rather than skill at coming up with words; and 4) you can have a great word and be unable to use it because of space restrictions. Letter Tycoon solves all of these: 1) the longer the word, the better the reward; 2-letter words are worth nothing 2) no multipliers, no timing effects 3) all letters are worth the same when played, and the reward scales properly (see item 1 above); the valuation difference is in the patent cost 4) you play your best word, plain and simple And, to boot, the rest of the game around the word creation is successful and makes for an interesting framing device while keeping the focus on the words, as I think a word game should.

Sam, I think you're crazy regarding the art for Alien Frontiers. The art is one of the best things about it! Retro sci-fi!

Tom the best trick playing game is Euchre. So much faster and better then bridge or hearts. I know it's heavily played here in Michigan. I remember tables of ppl playing it in high school at lunch time and parties.

All my friends think board games are nerdy.... I need new friends

I had an idea for a "top 10" list. Make each number a genre, like 10 - Worker Placement. 9 - Cooperative and so on. Then all three of you pick your favorite game of each genre and argue over why it's the best one and why people would like yours. It's kind of more like a debate, but I think it would play out very well in your Top 10 format AND it would get the best games of the biggest genres all in one video for people who would like that too.

Tales of the Arabian Nights with an app instead of the giant book would be a big improvement. If it'd read the choices to you, walk you through it, ask you to choose in the app, it would be a lot shorter and more fun.

I'm really surprised there was no mention whatsoever of Monopoly, which holds, wait for it, the monopoly on family boardgame...

Kingdom Death: Monster really is a fantastic game, especially for a huge fan of Final Fantasy Tactics like myself. The only criticisms I have are the prohibitive price (my gaming group had to combine funds to buy it) and the unforgiving insta-death dice rolls (we just ignore those). Sam is usually my favorite reviewer, but it's sad to see him hating on a game he hasn't even played.

Letters of Whitechapel - Have you played Scotland Yard? Vegas Showdown - The Killer here is Mad King Ludwig. The biggest problem with 40k is they keep changing the rules without keeping any backwards compatibility. I'd like to be able to play my Deathwing, Kult of Speed and Squats armies in modern rule sets.

Thank you guys, had great fun watching this one (still laughing at the "inflatable terrain" idea). Was expecting Monopoly to be high on one of your lists. I had some heart-pinching also when I heard Catan, El Grande, Galaxy Trucker, Eclipse and Splendor rightly mentioned as I had really good time with those and it makes you a little sad to realize that their time is over.

Sam: I know nothing about this game... and I'm sick of it.

Me thinking gloomhaven is on the list until I see the date of the video. Woops

Definitely never thought that Catan was a strong game because of the trading going on. I think it's the hexes, the resources and the robber that most people like about Catan! 🤔

see I'm the opposite on Catan. I find Catan long and dull. but I love Bohnanza as turns play really fast, lots of trading and its colourful.

I think I've had my annual safe dose of grumpy old man after watching this one.

I friggin love code names (and dixit).

30:10 I would love to see a live playthrough of Zug um Zug Deutchland with those passengers.

I consider Canasta to be an "old person game" - but when I finally learned it, I actually find it's really fun to play :-)

I think Zee is missing the point with Dead of Winter as far as how the game makes everyone look like a traitor. He says he wants to excise that dynamic from the game, but the fact that each player is keeping an eye out for a possible double-cross while advancing their own agenda IS already shaping story subplots within the greater narrative of Dead of Winter. Nothing will ever change the overarching tale -- a group of isolated survivors huddled together in the cold and fending off undead hordes -- that's more or less fixed and dictated by the game's thematic design and components. It's the context of each individual's actions and how their decisions play out from moment to moment within that environment that creates a unique and memorable story.

It sounds like Sam just wants people to stop talking about games they like that he doesn't.

That whole thing that Tom was saying about Betrayal at House on the Hill where sometimes you look at the traitor scenario and you're like "oh ya I just won" and then you don't even play it out because there's no point is SO ACCURATE.

Tom, we know when you say "it's a fine game", you really mean "this is hot garbage." It's like when Summerer says a game is interesting.

Sentinels of the Multiverse is my favorite game. I agree with Tom. We need superhero games to compete with it.

To dethrone chess you would need the game to be free for everyone to make copies.

The reason that there are a lot of old bridge players is that it's complexity keeps them mentally alert/engaged. They tend to live longer. Board games can keep the level of mental alertness up as well, so in 50 years there will be a bunch of 90 year-old board gamers with columns in the newspapers. Bridge is great by the way. It has really strong elements of, bidding, hidden communication, deduction and trick taking. It is strongly themed - not pasted on like a lot of games - as a battle between two teams to see who can win at cards.

There are 7 bridge clubs in my city alone. Each an owned building that's sole primary purpose is for people to gather and play bridge. Bridge was massive a century ago and a lot of communities built Bridge clubs, put them in trust, and they are still around. What boardgaming needs is to take those places over so every community has a place to play board games, instead of people just playing Bridge.

I dunno how Nations wasn't mentioned as a civilization game that compares to Through the Ages. I enjoy both, but Nations is MUCH shorter with 3-5.

I'm surprised Sam has never heard anything good about Kingdom Death Monster. It has a really high rating on BGG and is pretty well acclaimed by most who have had the opportunity to play it. I feel like Sam is turned off by the Horror aspects and won't give it a fair shake. Which is unfortunate. I like watching Sam's reviews because I am a fan of miniature games, and of all the people up there he should see the merits of the quality of the miniatures, even if he has never played the game. Yes they are on par with GW, both make amazing figures.

I really enjoyed this list and found it very informative. I would like to see more like this, where you can just open up and be honest about what you'd like to seen done better. Normally on a top-ten, I just kind of leave it on background noise but this one I was actually listening to every point you each made.

Monopoly needs to be dethroned as the household name in Boardgames and in marketshare in non-specialty stores (target etc).

Kingdom Death is actually a really great game. The problem is that it's basically a Games Workshop level investment to play it. The reason you don't hear about it is because there's still fewer than 10,000 copies in world. The new kickstarter will help change that and you'll start hearing about how good (or bad) it is from people.

they are talking about a Dune remake, so perhaps they will make a new movie version of Dune (as it would sell well alongside the movie)

People have been saying that GW (WFB/40k) needs to be dethroned for 30 years, GW has been generating $200 million a year, the next biggest is PP with Warmahordes, but the difference in revenue is HUGE! Even Age of Sigmar (WFB) is outselling the rest. FFG might have something interesting with Runewars, but it isn't exactly cheaper, I would say even more expensive then GW. As for as good or better hard plastic models: KDM, Dreamforge, Bandai, Malifaux. GW pricing has actually become reasonable when you start buying minis in the larger boxed set (games and army boxes). It's not happening anytime soon, either competing companies release hardplastic minis at a snails pace or use other materials (metal, resin, PVC). Many have tried, all have failed...

Woof, lots of comments mistaking this video for a review instead of a top ten list. Even more people getting upset about their favorite games being mentioned. Hey I like several of the games they collectively mentioned. I also would like to see every "best" game replaced because that means we got a better game. Who could argue with that.

Never played KDM but dislikes it... smh.

BEST LINE - "I can whoop on a chess player!"

Watching in 2024, in the middle of Mike Dilisio's "trick-taking renaissance"

11:58 - I want to see that list: Top 10 Games We Keep Meaning To Play But Never Get Around To... I'll start (my list also includes those I haven't played in a long time and would like to again): - Republic of Rome - Twilight Struggle - Zertz - Robo Rally - Splendor - Battlestar: Galactica - Sticheln - Seafarers of Catan - Shadows Over Camelot - Coup

New Angeles as a quasi-BSG replacement?

"Hasbro should be dethroned" lmao

For Tom's #1 - Dethroning War Hammer: I say that they come out with Lego type model sets (not necessarily made by "Lego" itself) for the 12 - Adult age group. You could snap a character together (no glue needed), build pre-designed buildings - or buy sandbox sets that let you make up your own. This could include accessories like trees, boxes, and barrels, etc., plus terrain that would either a.) be comparable to HeroScape, or b.) create something new that would work with the buildings. Mega Blocks is the first company that comes to mind, that has done the "real people" mini-figures. They already processed a WarCraft fantasy line. Who knows where else they could go.

I honestly have never grasped Tom's true opinion on Eclipse, maybe just over it over the years. I remember when he gave it the two thumbs up and made me think of picking it up.

Idiotic comment from Sam about not liking and getting tired of hearing about Kingdom Death: Monster. Says he's never played it, and doesn't care about playing it. It's one of the best all around campaign board games that have been made. Lots of strategy and decision making. I understand if he's being a prude about the adult theme of the game, but the game mechanics are top notch. It has one of the highest ratings on Boardgamegeek that I have ever seen, mid 9's and climbing. Just don't make a blind judgment on a game based on your personal moral compass or whatever.

Check out KDM Sammy, almost everyone that's actually played it is fond of the game as much as the production values.

Galaxy Trucker is a strange beast. The putting of the ship together is the part of the game that is conducive to creating Flow. Whereas the actual flying of the ship is conducive to creating Fiero moments. The normal structure of a game usually has a majority of Flow with some Fiero sprinkled in for effect. Galaxy Trucker compresses the Flow portion of the game and elongates the Fiero portion of the game. It doesn't let you stay in Flow, and takes the control away from the players for the majority of the game in favor of Fiero.

Maybe I've only played Betrayal at House on the Hill a few times, but separating the group to read the Haunt rules has actually been a fun part of the experience. Suddenly kicking out a team member (maybe even your strongest or most well armed and equipped member) is exciting. The meekest, friendliest person in real life can ironically be put in a position of power and menace. A serious, scheming player can relish being the bad guy and plotting his friends' demise. Each scenario is only about a page or two long, so it's not that much to take in. If someone's a real noob or not good with rules, it's not that hard to just pass off the Betrayer role to someone else who can run with it. Meanwhile, the rest of the team is suddenly brought a lot closer and made more cohesive, because now they HAVE to work together to survive and win. It's a great social aspect IMO. No spoilers please, but how many of these scenarios are actually broken or with rules that don't work? I have a hard time believing that the game can endure with such popularity if it were that broken. I've seen quite a few people calling the game "broken" when the resulting scenario is too slanted against the heroes, but I think that's a feature. This game is basically a B-movie horror simulator. It's about story and experience, not well-balanced competitive gaming.

X-Wing is possibly going to be the 40k dethroner. It has woken Games Workshop up.

Codenames is people sitting staring at cards quietly? Clearly Sam is playing with boring as fuck people. Whenever I've played the only person sat quietly is the Codemaster as everyone else furiously argues over their interpretations of the clue given, and even then it's taking an effort of will for them not to start yelling as well, pointing out how blindingly obvious the clue is.

Time has proven Z right about Time Stories NOT being a good replacement for Tales of the Arabian Nights

Instead of Codenames my family was snooty about Catchphrase and 1970s Family Feud growing up lol. Catchphrase was just an excuse for our family to yell at each other and have my nana throw a heavy plastic disc at us.

Racing game to dethrone Formula D? Mario Kart the board game or Pod Racer. FFG could do Pod Racer. Varying player powers...different Pod builds..a selection of play mats with different tracks, cool minis, some type of pod combat or sabotage mechanism...cool.

I've never spent a dollar on Kingdom Death Monster, but I have had a chance to play it many times. It is an exceptional game. It is easily one of the best games I have ever played.

So agree with Tom on the Short Space Game! It would be nice if it also had quite some Tech-Tree in it! The game currently holding the possition is really ok though, but I'm also waiting for a replacement. Thanks for the thoughts guys!

Three responses. First, Bridge. My High School had a Bridge Club that was always packed, but my school pushed us to take full loads of Advanced Placement courses (and Honors was the lowest intensity they'd offer) so maybe we weren't normal teenagers. The second is Kingdom Death: Monster. You know what? As one of the very few players who actually owns this game in its 1.0 version, it's an incredible play experience that would, in some ways, actually be the answer to some of the other calls to dethrone if it was more similar since it blends a Big Damn Storybook and Tactical Combat. There's a reason the 1.5 Kickstarter made its unprecedented 12 million, and it's not the pinups, and only partially the vision of a dark nightmare-fantasy universe However? As someone who owns the game, who backed the 1.5KS 100% I can totally understand and feel for anyone who can't get behind this game, as long as they actually look at the game and not *just* the pinups or Wet Nurse that aren't even game pieces. It's horror, and really twisted nightmare horror as well, and some folks aren't going to be able to stand that. And that's OK -- as you all said in the "Great games with terrible themes" video. Similarly, I don't think less of anyone for doing a spit take on the price because a 400 dollar board game sounds insane, and it takes a while to realize you really do get what you pay for in incomprable minis (GW quality or better) and amazing gameplay with insane longevity. Finally, Warhammer 40K. Can I say hell yes? I love the idea of a real "Your Dudes" miniatures wargame, but I've had nothing but trouble finding one that's fun and accessable for my family (all heavy gamers, before anyone comments: I've played TI3 with anyone I'd hope to get into a real wargame) and double trouble finding one with a meaningful community outside of that that's not named Warhammer in some way, shape or form. I've got Relic Knights 2.0 coming, and while it's skirmish scale it's still dudes on a table, it has the anime theme that I know my relations are going to get behind... but I know it's not going to have a following in my area because honestly I fear that nothing really will be able to dethrone Warhammer as long as Games Workshop owns brick & Mortar stores that provide places to meet up and play their games and other companies don't. So, yeah, I want 40k to be dethroned, but I don't know how hopeful I am on that score.

Oh man , thanks for reminding me how awesome Kingdom Death Monster's gameplay is. Oh man , I could go on and on but I think I need to run off and play it now.

I want to see TI3 dethroned... with TI4. Update it now!!!

Age of Empires III: the age of discovery is an awesomely themed and beautiful game with area control as one of the ways to win. Not as much focus on area control as El Grande but so good.

Fun video - Chess will not be dethroned because it is perfect as a deep strategy life style game. The problem with most abstract no luck strategy games is three fold a) depth and replayability b) getting right opponents and c) being able to get strategy / tactics support so you can improve if you get to a stumbling block. Chess has all of these and is quicker than go and more accessible than Xiangqi or Shogi. The Gipf games are great but they do not have the variety, replayabilty, range of players or depth of chess.

OK, i have a question. Was Sam's list "Top 10 Games that Need to be Dethroned" or "Some Games i Want to See Reprinted and Some I Don't Like Because People Talk About Them a Lot" ??? When you do a list stick to the topic my good man ! Also, you know people talk about KDM because they enjoy it ! I am also sick of hearing about Pandemic Legacy but i don't wish it off the face of the earth ! Except from that, another good and funny video from all 3 of you ! As always good chemistry between you and very informative.

I have to agree with Sam, I would love another Dune game/reprint!

I've been a Heroscape guy since the beginning. All they needed to do was throw in a board mat with the hexes and some hex pieces that are already 7 or 8 layers high. That's it. You can buy mats online and it saves a lot of time if you want to play a quick match.

Tom: for a fun short racing game where you just take out dice and race and its popular. what about Camel Up? doesn't that cover all the points you guys were covering