Top 10 Games with Critical First Turns 

Suggestion: keep the title of the game somewhere on the screen while the guys are taking about it

All these years and Zee still coming with the games no one’s ever heard of 😂

Mike is a great addition to the Dice Tower

Zee your reaction to Tom and Mike interacting, is brilliant! It has the gambit of emotions from out loud laugh to sip of a good beverage to savor the moment. I salute you good sir!

hmm, i'd go with 10. On Tour 9. Peloponnes 8. Cooper Island 7. Furnace 6. Walking in Provence 5. Jump Drive/The City 4. The Crew 3. Shadowrun Crossfire 2. Isle of Skye 1. Kingdom Builder

This was a great list: we got some interesting thought processes and fun discussions. Kudos to the person who came up with the idea! I hope we can get more of these unconventional topics that make us look at games in different ways. My contributions: top 10 games that require you to stick to a strategy, games that tempt you the most to switch strategies halfway, games that allow for the most creative strategies, games with interesting pivoting moments, games that fire up your irresponsible/obstinate side (like Tom's "well, we'll see about that!"), games that tought you the most about yourself, games that tell you the most about your fellow players, games that blew your mind, games you want to play in specific moods, or that put you in certain moods, games with the best table talk, games that make you think in interesting new ways, games that feel too much like work, games that are too easy/obvious, games that are most counterintuitive, games that are most intuitive, games that best allow different types of gamers to have fun together, games that can be most different depending on who you're playing with, games that work in the widest variety of situations (e.g. heavy and light, few and many players, serious and lighthearted), games that spark the most creativity or inspire you, games that are best at making you happy.

I anticipated both Tom's #1 and the tone with which it would be delivered. 😄

Tons of Mike walloping today... poor Mike.... at least he was validated in the end 😁

Very much enjoyed the strategy debate that this list encouraged. Would you consider making more videos where you debate strategy?

I agree with Zee about Five Tribes - the key move is to be had about 2/3rds in. (sorry Mike)

Amazing list, and amazing idea for the list!

Mike's domino joke was gold.

Star Wars: Armada. Turn one, you deploy your ships, set your dials. If you have a large ship, you've now eliminated a good chunk of the battlefield from your possible positions, because you are going to be turning slowly and moving slowly. You set your dials, you've now determined your focus for the first half of the game. You made a mistake? You'll get to correct it. On turn 4. Out of 6. Because those first three turns? You already set the dials for them.

I'd pick a few categories: Games with drafting/selected setup where it's key to get synergies or good start locations - Agricola, Terra Mystica, Catan, 18xx Games with huge snowballing, either economy ramping up or a coop where you can spiral down - Terra Mystica, Shadowrun Crossfire Games with few turns and/or hard to correct course midgame - Food Chain, Game of Thrones

Kingdom Builder is a good choice, people. I've been playing that a lot on BGA lately.

I certainly agree with Mike with The Crew. It isn’t always necessary to communicate on the first turn, but the pressure and potential ramifications for doing so can be huge!

Robo Rally. If you program your robot and in the middle of it you get pushed, you can be playing from behind the rest of the game.

Would love to see a series going through the top 50-100 games, ideal player count

I'll also go with Power Grid. If you place your first city in a bad spot, you can be perpetually competing harder for subsequent cities compared to other players, making it near impossible to catch up.

In Terra Mystica/Gaia Project picking a faction is extremely important. I'd definitely put these on the list.

When I first played Kanban, there were a lot of mechanics to take in and I couldnt wrap my head around scoring yet. As I was taking my first turn though, a few things started clicking in my head and I could figure what midgame would kinda be like. Tracing back to the turn I was taking, I realised I have probably already lost with the (highly inefficient!) action I was taking. Another game I think has an important first turn and wasnt mentioned yet is Clans of Caledonia. How far or close you put your starting meeples together may make or break your chance at settlement scoring. Paying too much to place those meeples could shoot you in the foot in the first few round too. Highly agree with the Catan pick though.

Where does Zee get his endless stream of made-up games printed? Some of them almost look real.

Terraforming Mars - The corporation you choose as well as the patents you elect to purchase is very important. The preludes as well.

You guys have plated an astounding number of games!

Absolutely agree on Wildlands Mike, it was the first game that sprang to mind for me.

With setup included. Terraforming Mars with especially turmoil. But all the expansions. Corp choice with preludes, with colonies, knowing which event is first on turmoil. So powerful.

Good to see Dungeon Twister on this list, good pick, you're 100% right and I wouldn't have thought of it

Some pretty solid picks there. I agree with the Crew, Catan and Small World. When considering Set up Agricola is also quite important. Choosing the cards at the start really shapes how the play will progress. I would also have considered Barrage though with that game it's more like the first round that counts. Where you place your infrastructure and how you spend your resources is critical. It can be very hard to come back from if you made a mistake since your machinery can be locked up for quite some time...

Aeon's End: The first card you buy determines the order of your deck for the rest of the game. Maybe it seems like a small detail, but it's crucial to think about this if you want to defeat the more difficult nemeses.

Tic-Tac-Toes expansion pack takes care of that first turn problem. ;)

Great list!

Gloomhaven has critical first turns. It's the only turn where you have perfect info of enemy layout before you start playing. You can position and pop off major moves/big damage in the first room. It's often worth using a loss card in the first turn if you can get an optimal use of it.

I have a group member that constantly picks 2 and 12 as first move in Catan AND 11s the subsequents turns. The scary thing is that he sometimes wins big time.

Catan for sure. First time I played it I didn’t realize why I lost so badly but it was all about the start of the game. Five tribes is sort of a first move important but if you are playing 2 player it’s not as crucial. Other games if felt without a good first turn you are playing catch up the whole game would be: Inis, Arboretum and Targi (slightly)

Has Zee done a video explaining the rules he learned for playing Dominoes? I would be interested in seeing that.

I love the first turn puzzle of Kingdom Builder! I ended up going with KB rather than WK because I don't want it to be mitigated! Having to deal with the constrains is what makes KB so good.

Power grid i think sets up the board and where you are going to go the rest of the game along with what resource you are going to go after.

So glad Axis and Allies Pacific made this list. That was the first game that came to mind for me. If you screw up that first turn with Japan you really have a hard time from that point on.

Enjoyable! Would you consider making a top 10 of the best Big Box boardgames (i.e. boardgames with all expansions included in one box) or (please :)) a top 10 of the best dinosaur themed games - I have been noticing that you have been reviewing a lot of dinosaur games lately.

Watching this the second time was even more fun than the first time

The argument for Seasons applies even more to Res Arcana. Also, surprised Mike didn't have Stratego considering he was thinking about set up

Mike is right about 5 Tribes. If certain Jinn are available - or the Market is stacked with high value goods (for example) going first is often critical for a strong chance at victory.

I agree season is a very good choice

I think recently, there's something wrong with the voice. During this particular Top10, where Tom, Mike and Zee talk about their games, I have to maximize the volume to hear what they say, and this is reminded to me when the final music is played, where it's so loud, I should rush and turn the volume way down.

There's one definite game I can think of... Playing Elder Sign solo (recommend Marie Lambeau, she breaks the game)... But, you absolutely need to succeed early on. With limited resources, spells, weapons...you need to make very smart decisions and there is a much higher likelihood of failure than there is later on when the game is a breeze (if you're playing it right).

The first game I thought of was access and allies. I haven't played Access now I specific but I can totally see that. Then Catan and I can totally see small world. Good pics.

Raptor. If u pick polar opposite of the pther player and you get like 7 moves or so. It can be devestating for your opponent

First thing to come to mind for me was stratego, but the principle there applies to a lot of games.

It's really too bad about the Food Chain Magnate experience Tom had. I've only played it once, with relatively experienced players, and they gave a brief rundown of the first turn and pointed out potential pitfalls. I certainly didn't win, but I had a good experience, and scoring was within a reasonable margin. I feel like when you play this kind of unforgiving game, if there is a disparity in experience part of the teaching needs to be pointing out the pitfalls or people will have bad experiences.

I'm with Zee in terms of 5 Tribes (lots of options early in the game) but I'm with Mike on Catan. I think the majority of the game of Catan is picking the locations at the start (even if you use the base set up pictured in the rule book).

I agree with mike about Catan. He just picked a bad example using the numbers. I would have focused on resource access with you settlement placements, and picking the right settlement to give those first resources.

Chinatown is back on print now, and really good.

I believe Res Arcana could also be on the list of critical first turn games. But more so for the first round. In the setup choosing the right Mage to start with is extremely important to how the rest of the game will flow. The first round of the game and your opening hand is likely to determine your engine, your goal for the end game, and the strategy you take to get there. I had a game recently where I saw my starting deck decided to go for a steal other peoples dragons from discard strategy but in my opening hand I didn't get any of the pieces I needed to make it work. I had to completely swap around my goal and build up to something else. All in the opening turn of the game. I won with a high Elan building engine to convert them to gold and win with Monuments.

I still enjoy these, butI can't wait till they can do these together at the table.

Great idea for a list. Catan should have been waaaay higher on these list though. There aren't many other games where a bad opening can pretty much exclude you from taking meaningful game actions for the majority of the rest of the game. (And with no real way to resign or quicken the ending of the game, you're often just stuck playing with your phone while the other 3 or 4 players faff about until someone mercifully accumulates enough points.) And even if, like Tom, you don't consider the placement of your initial settlement "the first turn", making a bad choice as to your first expansion can quickly result in you getting cut off due to the rule about settlements not being too close to each other. A bad first turn in Catan (and the consequences thereof) are just so much more punishing than in a lot of the other games on any of today's lists. It's a wonder more people aren't turned off from board gaming as a result of Catan.

Mine include terra Mystica/Gaia project, GoT and Twilight imperium. I share Tom’s feeling on FCM.

Seasons was my first pick too. First game I thought of.

Similar to Axis amd Alloes Pacofoc the old American civil war game 'A House Divided' has a similar first turn situation for the Confederates. You can sneak a lightening win of the Union player doesnt stop you, but if you don't the Union get stronger and stronger and a CSA win becomes much harder.

I would definitely agree with Axis & Allies Pacific, the Japanese player's first turn is a real brain burner trying to work out how you can hit as much as you can. If you plan it very well and take a few risks you can essentially set yourself up for a win if you keep up on the offence and holding the Allies back. I would also add other Axis & Allies games to this, as the first turn for a few of the different powers in a few of the games are quite pivotal and can make or break the whole game.

I was just about to say 'Tom, stand up!'

A few ideas for Top Ten shows: "Top 10 games played 10 times or more," or some other number (this could be best games or worst games); "Top 10 great games that I only played once"; "Top 10 games that are 5 to 10 years old," or the years could be specified; "Top 10 games I would give another chance"; "Top 10 games I didn't like after first playing, but I like now." Thank you for these lists--it helps my research a lot!

Summoner Wars feels like it should be on here, especially given that the first player has fewer options on their first turn. Getting an early kill or killing off one of your own units can be critical for gathering magic...and, of course, missing an early attack can leave you vulnerable. Also, for Codex, not so much in regards to the first play but the first cards you teach will really shape much of your game by moving you toward one of your specs.

Terra Mystica. Though technically part of setup, choosing an appropriate faction and starting dwelling locations is a pretty big deal.

Food chain magnate is absolutely correct as number 1. I would have just the opposite reaction as tom though lol its one of 9 games I have rated a 10

100% agree with Food Chain Magnate and Spyfall. I knew it before you said it.

I feel like Wingspan would be a good addition to the list. If you’re playing with people who know what they’re doing, you need to make the most of that first hand or you’ll be behind the whole time

My first thought was 100% Food Chain Magnate

Zee should definitely try out the On Tour app if he hasn't already, it's a great way to play that game solo on the fly. 😄 Also the app has a nice feature where you can input a seed number that multiple people all play with so you can essentially all play the same exact game on the app by just using the same seed.

I agree with root? but i believe the woodland alliance has the most crucial first turn. it's extremely important to place sympathisers in heavy traffic areas and to ensure that you can set up to revolt in turn 2 to get an early base out

Finally Tom gave Food Chain that deserved number one spot.

To be fair and also throwing in some theory crafting here the turn 1 Eyrie turmoil strategy in Root can be viable :D If you have the right cards you choose the charismatic leader to recruit 3 times and BAM 12 Birds on the map then you go to turmoil. You lose the leader until the next "election cycle" and 1 potential point but that is it.

I think Zee's right about The Crew. I could see an argument for the task draft being key, but every card played could end the round as easily as the first. If anything, you have the most options to choose from on the first play, so it's easy to feed someone the first task.

Res Arcana. You're picking the 8(!) cards you're going to use for the entire game. That's hugely critical.

Amerigo from Stefan Feld, definitely on this list.

I know this crowd could be low but what about a top 10 of game that you would/should/could or did play for hours? I think like 3+. (DnD style, civilization, or WoW) just to give some examples. I guess one could count a card came that one played for houses too.

I had a perfect storm in codenames where I won on the first turn!

With tic-tac-toe, the only important move is the second one (which is the second player's first move, of course). The first player's first move is irrelevant, but if the second move is made in error, the game is won. But since the game is completely trivial, I'd put it into the "If you make a sufficiently bad choice on the first turn, you can lose nearly any game" category.

I’m totally with Zee on Five Tribes. I think it’s completely the opposite. I would put this game on the top 10 least critical first turns. And totally agree with nr.1 of people’s choice. Cmon, how you Tom and Zee didn’t put Catan!!? The first turn (set up) is so crucial that sometimes even before you put your first houses you already know that will be very difficult to win.

Most engine builders, things like Res Arcana and Terraforming Mars and Wingspan, belong on the list as well.

Sometimes you can give a great Codenames clue, after your opponent covers up some of their words

Out of what I have i was thinking Dune. If you're not careful about how you bid, and move your troops, or get into combat too early, you can be in some real hurt.

Checked the Urban Dictionary. Of course the Dilisio blunder is there :P

I have to agree with Zee on both Five Tribes and The Crew. I like both games, and there are always specific instances that will be exceptions, but I think usually the least important turn of either game is the first. I do like it when the more off-the-wall topics like this are used, makes for a less predictable list and leads to less common discussions. Two possibilities that occurred to me while watching this one were: 1. Games with a Bad Victory Condition but We Enjoy the Experience Anyway (Escape from the Aliens in Outer Space and Sub Terra both fit this for me, for example. I enjoy the experience of both, the atmosphere, etcetera, but Sub Terra feels like a cooperative variant on beat your own score and Escape's is just straight garbage. Coffee Roaster *is* beat your own score, but I also enjoy it anyway) 2. I struggle with a pithy way to say it, but I was thinking of realities of games that may commonly emerge from the mechanics that makes me dislike a game or like it less. For example, one of my biggest criticisms of chess (a game I rather enjoy and have played in tournaments, albeit not especially well) is also my single biggest criticism of Yinsh: too many games are decided not by strategic error but stupid mistakes and oversights. Nothing mechanically in Yinsh means that *has* to be so, but so often is, in my experience. It is my fourth favorite game in the GIPF series for that reason as much as any other. I feel like the alpha gamer issue that some open information co-ops present so strongly could fit this as well. And Root, which I enjoy tremendously, is an exemplary case of a game where the complexities in how the mechanics interlock and the fact that it is a game, like many wargames, that depends on the players to check each other rather than including any snapback or catchup mechanism, make for a game unusually dependent, especially for a multiplayer game that plays in under two hours, on a roughly even understanding around the table of the mechanics and strategies. I would just add with regard to this list that I tend to avoid games with overly important first turns, for the same reason I tend to avoid really tight designs: I want the freedom and ability to make a mistake and recover, especially if that mistake was early on. But I think that route- and network-building games in general, like programming games, tend to have more important first turns, even if they aren't necessarily "critical."

Nice pick Zee. Fury of Dracula would have been my choice.

Cooper Island. The whole game is kinda tight and if you don't push from the start you're pretty much out.

Terraforming mars because of having to choose your starting cards and corporation AND if you're using prelude, that as well. It's critical that you pick the right cards that will synergies together and if you pick wrong, the other players are going to straight up whoop you.

This was a fun one. How about top ten games where player seating order matters?

I'm struggling to think of game where the first turn of the game is LESS important than Five Tribes. There are SO many variables on the opening setup that as Zee said there's going to be more moves than players that are available that are going to be pretty similar points. Even if you bid 5 to get a fat 20 point move I'll still bid zero and probably pick up a 12 somewhere and you only actually outscored me by 3, in a game where winning scores are usually 100+. On top of that, big turn become more common as the game goes on as tiles deplete and become easier to capture along with all the other ways to score ups your score per move. If you think the first turn is crucial, I feel like you have almost no grasp of the strategy of Five Tribes.

The Babylon 5 ccg, it can be a long lasting game but the starting hand is key and if you mess up your openeing it will hurt.

Mike is spot on with Catan. Also it is the same reason why Catan makes a bad gateway game. For most new players they do not count setup as part of the game, so they don't realize a good 1/3 of the game is over before the "game they perceive" even starts. A good comparison as to why is go compare Penny Arcade's talk of Catan comparing it to Yahtzee, except Catan teaches you skills on how to play other board games well.

Catan was the 1st to come to my mind. Hive probably could've made this list. Blood Rage too.

*Mike says anything* Tom: "huh"

The only game that came to mind when I heard the title was Power Grid, but that's probably because I've only played it once and I realized after 2.5 hours that there was no way for me to win, all because I placed my first factory badly. Good game, though.

Surprised even the people did not pick Blood Rage, I rank it high on this list for the same reason as Seasons

Clans of Caledonia, Gaia Project and The Gallerist.

I can’t believe nobody mentioned Yugioh where your first turn has a high probability of being the ONLY turn.

Mike, your a good sport.

The Game of Life - do you pick the college track or regular job track?

The first move in Five Tribes is probably the least important, except if you get 4 of a kind on the 15. Lol.

Going into turmoil turn 1 with the birds in Root is actually a valid strategy.