This was a really well-done list. I have not played any of these, so I found it very informative. You gave just enough information to peak my interest without going into too much detail. Even better, you gave good reasons as to why you like them, including explaining why a "typical" Euro is in fact a unique experience. Kudos!
Graeme this is the best dice tower top ten list I have watched and I've been watching for years. I especially appreciate the bgg scale included - the rationale for it is valid and serves as a great defense for your selections.
My TOP Heavy Games list: 11) Way of the Panda 10) Tigris and Euphrates 9) Robinson Crusoe 8) Pret-a-porter 7) Crystal Palace 6) A Feast for Odin 5) Barrage 4) Paladins of the West Kingdom 3) Anachrony 2) Eclipse 1) Brass: Birmingham Nice video!
Thanks Graeme! And ofcourse the video starts with Scottish music; haha. Some good heavy games to mention are: Die Macher (a game about German politics that you have to play with 4 or the best with 5 and that works very procedural), Trickerion (the Magician's workerplacementgame with a lot a planning), Trismegistus (a heavy alchemist diceworkerplacement game), Agra (trading, workerplacement and area control in India), Arkwright (THE heavy economic boardgame, but it's better to start with the cardgame. Also heavy, but easier and cheaper to get!), City of the Big Shoulders (an economic euro boardgame that uses the system of 18xx), Lignum and Imperial Steam both designed by Alexander Huemer, The Smoky Valley (from the maker of The Grand Trunk Journey - Claude Sirios), Three Kingdoms Redux: the best 3-player only game ever in my opion!, Yinzi from the Portugese duo Costa and Rola (Cafe is much easier to understand, but what a game this is), Barrage (watermanagement on a high level), Cerebria & Perseverance (Mindclash Games; do I have to say more...) and a lot of wargames and 18XX-games ofcourse. You can check for example 18OE, it's 'only' 720 minutes for a full game... If you want to try a very good, but a much easier COIN-game with a group of people than - with no doubt - Cuba Libre is the best to start with. And if you want to try an amazing tight and unforgiven euro economic game than Pipeline is absolutely the one to choose.
I can picture Tom screaming "Nooooo" when you revealed your #1 . Another evidence that the dice tower is not a one-minded group 😄 As far as I'm concerned, I love heavy games and GMT (solo) heavy games even more. Huzzah for COIN games 😄
Great list and super informative. How about some B roll of games on the table? A huge amount isn't necessary, just some stills would do. Fringe benefit would be giving those arms a break from holding those heavy boxes up next to your face. Edit: There was even an audible grunt while hoisting Lisboa! B roll Graeme. B roll.
Great list, and well presented! I own Cuba Libre (the only COIN game I own). Would you still recommend checking out Pendragon? Does it offer a lot more, or differ substantially, to merit picking up?
Though I am not really as much into heavy Euros these days as I use to be, this video deserves a Like simply for having Cooper Island and Madeira on it.
Great list and presentation! For anyone interested in COIN games, I'd suggest checking out 'lighter' entries like Cuba Libre or Andean Abyss, then working up to Pendragon. Or just pick one based on what most interests you - have heard good things about Fire in the Lake too.
I love the COIN games and Pendragon is one of the best. The implementation of the theme is so good, and the point when the game state changes is just fabulous.
I always felt I'm not a fan of heavy games.... yet, I've played 7/10 of those! arghhhh... only have yet to try Pendragon, Cooper Island and FCM. Can tell he was introducing differing types of games and that's why only 1 Lacerda game appeared here. For variety, I would agree that Gaia Project and Spirit Island are missing here amongst TOP heavy games.
Great list! When you said “every decision matters,” was thinking Food Chain Magnate would make an appearance! Will need to check out Cooper Island, Capstone has been killing it lately with the heavy games! Keep up the good work!
Judging solely by the other games on your shelf I don't think our tastes align, so I can't accept your ordering. That being said, I appreciate you summaries and descriptions of each game. Very well done.
Good list, Graeme. I've played 6 of the 10, and was just saying the other day on BoardGamingRamblings how I need to get Cooper Island to the table. I am a little shocked to not see Arkwright here though. Arkwright has pretty much killed Food Chain Magnate for me - the domestic market gives me a lot of the same feels as the fight over sales in FCM and the tech tiles give me the same feels as the milestones and how each player diversifies through how they individualize their workforce, but I find the factory management, shipping, turn order manipulation, and action selection so much more compelling. My top ten heavy games (honestly not that different from my top ten games overall), using the same 4.0 or greater criterion: 1. 18XX as a system, but 1822 is tops if I'm forced to pick one 2. Gaia Project 3. Arkwright (this waffles with GP, but GP is winning now because I've been playing it more as it became available on BGA) 4. On Mars 5. Antiquity (the best Splotter is only 3.97) 6. Anachrony 7. Madeira - best game I don't own, and I was very to happy to see the recent update about the collector's edition 8. Lisboa 9. Coffee Traders 10. Barrage Trickerion and Imperial Steam could cause some shuffling with more plays, and 1817 could also dethrone 1822 as my favorite 18XX game with more plays too.
What a fine, solid list of Heavies. I can concur with the choices on your list I have played. Lacerda's "Kanban" (the original) would be in my top ten. Your number one game is understandably in it's place. Well done! :)
As someone new to the hobby, the only games on my shelf I consider heavy are Anachrony, Spirit Island and Brass: Birmingham, the latest being my favourite as of rn. I know BB is not considered heavy according to BGG, but it gets you into the same mindset as Anachrony with the "plan at least your next 3 rounds to achieve anything" style gameplay. Also, a game of Spirit Island where you are on the edge of losing for a longer period leaves you wanting to go for a sleep right after you finish it. Love the list, definitely want to try FCM.
Great job! Great Overviews. I love heavier games but a lot of them are very dry. I really need a strong theme in order to get the most enjoyment out of the mechanics and typical longer play times. Food Chain is definitely a great #1 in that regard.
Food Chain Magnate. When you showed the other Splotter game. Then said that might not be the only one. I totally knew what number one is. It's my favorite game. But boy does it piss off people. Just got the Ketchup expansion.
Heaviness is highly subjective to me. Some games on BGG with the exact same weight is night and day for me. A Feast for Odin is a 3.85 and yet I find that infinitely more medium than a lot around 3.5-4.0. All it does is overwhelm you with lots of components, but the core gameplay is very straight forward and offers a fair amount of viable strategies. Compare that with Robinson Crusoe that's a 3.8 and make you scratch your head reading the rules, trying to figure out the strategies and such.
Some of that is just due to a well written rulebook versus a not so well written one. RC's rulebook isn't the worst, but it doesn't do the best job in providing clarity. Worst rulebook in my collection still goes to Mage Knight 🤣
My tastes have been getting heavier recently, but I don’t like too much player interaction or viciousness, so my list might be slightly different. But it turns out that I’ve only played four games with a 4+ BGG complexity rating so far, and I really liked all of them! (My favourite range is probably 3.5 to 4.2.) My first (in no particular order) is Barrage. My one gripe is that it tends to give massive advantages to first players or people with great combos of starting abilities, so it has a bit of a runaway leader issue (in my opinion). That said, it’s delightfully crunchy and the theme is perfect! I really enjoy the gameplay itself, trying to predict the path of the water in your head before you flush the water down the mountainside and invariably miss something 😂 … it’s genius! The Gallerist didn’t seem nearly as complex to me as BGG thinks it is, but I really enjoy it! I’ve played it twice and won once. The theme is original and the gameplay really unique! Trickerion also didn’t feel as crunchy as BGG says. Really enjoyed that one too, though I did think it was odd (mechanically, but perhaps not thematically) that you can only gain points on performances, which you can get locked out of. But it’s really enjoyable, and my only play so far was a victory for me! Thanks for the great list, Graeme! I may have to check some of yours out!
Disagree with the definition of heavy as being “every decision matters”. For example, Lost Cities has very tense decisions but the rule set is extremely simple. I do not have a great alternate definition to add though. Heavy definitely is based in complexity of rules though.
I think limiting the games to BGG ratings of 4+ misses some really good high density games. The rules may not be complex, but the gameplay is heavier than some on this like Anachrony. Hansa Teutonica is only a 2.82, but it's complexity lies in how the players play each other, not the game. I also think the player vs player interaction of Brass Birmingham has much more weightier decisions than some of the games on this list, and is more fun. I do like a lot of these games on this list and I will have to seek out the ones I have not played yet.
Well, weight doesn't refer to how thinky a game is. Otherwise there would be plenty of abstracts with simple rules and huge depth crowding the heavy games. It does give a score to help you to choose if a game suits the willigness to learn rules of you and your game group :)
Great list. And you're right about Food Chain Magnate. In an interview when the game first came out, the Splotter guys said, regarding how punishing this game is, even from the very first turn, "It's important that every turn should matter. So if you cannot lose the game on the first turn, then the first turn should not be played." ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FYjvu3ka2Gw.html
OOOPS! Sorry for this guy but I don't own nor like any of them (and I didn't even know half of them)! We are more: Terraforming Mars / Eclipse / Wingspan / Star Wars Rebellion / Beyond the Sun / War of the Ring / Dune Imperium etc
