I can answer Seth's doubt: LD is more frowned upon than artefact destruction, for the same reason LD is more frowned upon than monster destruction. You can put new artifacts in play faster, but you can normally play only 1 land per turn, so they don't just take away your lands, they take away your turns as well.
Even if we love different cards, I love to see how Crim express his love for his cards. (I am an Esper player too, but I am light on the sodium espectrum xD)
Assuming Discipline of Caelus Nin doesn't get removed on your turn, it poses an interesting dilemma - the opponent who removes the disciple on his turn will be the *last* one to have his permanents phase in. This presents a great prisoner's dilemma type of a situation and is going to be great for politics.
Can't wait to see Seth's face during Transformer week, I hope it's going to be a yearly occurence so we can see him slowly growing attached to his starscream deck
Daybreak announced the Brother's War decks would be on MTGO for 29.99! Also reading the announcement, it seems like all future commander decks would also be added to MTGO and they are slowly adding backlog cards (they added 41 previously skipped cards this patch).
I'm glad Tomer has some sense when it comes to how mass land destruction is so very different from mass artifact destruction. When all your mana rocks go away, you can at least still cast a spell or two on your turn with the lands you have. Slow but still able to play. When all your lands go away, you are left not able to play anything...for several turns until you get a few lands in play and can resume playing. What turn does mass anything destruction get played? Typically not before turn 5 or 6 at least (realistically more like 7 or 8). At that point setting back someone who ramped hard with mana rocks will hurt them yes, but not debilitate them. They slow down, others catch up and the game goes on. Do that with everyone's lands and the game grinds to a halt. By turn 7 or 8 you had several lands go away and may have even ramped into a few (wayfarer's bauble, myriad landscape, sakura tribe elder, etc) and those lands are now gone so there are less for you to draw into. This just feels like a monumental waste of time to maybe gain a slight edge. Land destruction is fine (and not at all frowned upon like you all seem to continue to misrepresent) when you pick off problematic lands that recur creatures, produce tons of mana on their own, or prevent damage from going through. Again, a setback but not debilitating. Mass land destruction is fine in 1v1 settings because the turns go by much faster and it's easier to have a board that will reduce ONE opponents life total from 20 to 0 before they rebuild. Very much not the case in trying to reduce THREE opponents from 40 to 0. The biggest problem with mass land destruction in a non competitive commander game is you are truly not respecting others' time and only doing so because it could be "hilarious".
7:19 *Technically*, your stuff phases in immediately before untapping, during the untap step. I know it sounds pedantic, but it matters, because all the phasing in stuff untaps...
so regarding the saltiness of blowing up mana rocks vs blowing up lands, blowing up mana rocks is less salt inducing because you can play multiple mana rocks a turn and mana rocks can even pump out more rocks and they're easier to recur, as far as lands, unless you're a dedicated landfall deck you usually can only play 1 a turn and they're much much harder to recur.
I think there's a significant difference between Mass Land Destruction and Mass Artifact Destruction. The average deck can only play one land per turn. The average deck can play one or more mana rocks per turn. If someone casts an Armageddon, let's say on turn five. There's probably gonna be a few mana rocks on the board, maybe a sol ring or two. Everyone is stuck on turn 1 again until they draw a land. Nobody keeps a hand with one land reasonably, why would you want a board-state where you have a couple of mana rocks, but no lands and maybe one or two lands in hand? Especially when you've already spent the time playing lands individually.
Gix has tons of counter spells, as long as your opponents do. Play tons of black draw with Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Blood Gift Demon, Necrologia etc... then discard them to mill whatever color you want to get the spells your digging for. It's random but if you're drawing 5 or 6 cards a turn you're bound to hit what you're looking for eventually. There also isn't a time limit in the ability so as long as Gix is on the field you have access to this massive pile of cards that you can cast for free which could include kill spells or counter magic.
9:46 It's a board 'wipe', Crim. Those are 5+ MV and not at flash speed without being much more expensive. If it just prevented permanents from phasing back in, then I could see 3-4 MV and Flash + 'No phase back in' ability. But it clears most of the board. You guys are focusing on the second part and not the first.
They are also missing out on the dynamic of the permanents not phasing back in all at once when the disciple leaves. The first player to phase back in has a severe advantage of a pretty much open board. I can easily see some shenanigans with sac outlets or instant speed removal.
@@Death_by_Tech As far as I understand it yes. From what I can find objects only phase in on their controllers turn, regardless of how they were phased out. So if one of your 5 permanents is a sac outlet the rest of the table might be forced into keep blockers instead of lands. Which in turn gives you the power to not pull that trigger. I believe phase out hate is actually the least interresting thing about the card :p.
Something I think people aren't mentioning is how well the Urza melding curves out. Urza for 3, he makes the mightstone 1 cheaper, so you can turn 4 play the stones, the stones can tap for 2 mana, so the next turn you can meld (assuming you hit all your land drops during this). Of course that could be interrupted during those turns, but the curve is really nice.
Portal to Phyrexia is probably going in my Osgir deck. By turn 5 or 6 I often have anywhere from 8-12 mana available to me. Hard casting this on one turn and then sacrificing it on an opponent's end step and making two copies on my turn seems pretty decent. Definitely more of a casual card, but super strong in Osgir.
Which means you can cast soundwave. Swing 2 or 3 tokens at 1 or 2 or 3 people, have the token hit, cast a spell, transform, cast another spell, transform back and create one of 2 evasive legendarys, cast another spell, transform BACK again. He is truly More Than Meets The Eye.
Biggest problem with Brotherhood's End is that the artifact destruction mode hurts red decks the most, by a significant margin imo. It's probably best in G/R/x decks.
Calnus Nin seems like an interesting blink target since permanents phase in during your untap step. So in theory if you can either play it at instant speed or it survives it could be more one-sided. Having enough mana after playing it is a bit difficult but could be an interesting janky winncon.
Over the Top is my pick for most exciting card in the set for Commander. It really fits into that Warp World style of deckbuilding and while not quite punishing spellslinger quite as hard (a positive effect of Warp Worlding) it also doesn't reward them either I'm with Crim on Soundwave, card is sweet
with Soundwave if you run Reconnaissance you can manipulate which attacks will actually connect to cast that exact mana value spell. Just food for thought
I'm actually loving the look of Visions of Phyrexian for my Prosper artifacts, it's an old joke that rakdos cards go in Prosper but the imulse draw every turn and a powerstone if not cast triggers fireweaver and such, sacs to kci and ravager, swaps with other artifacts. Looks like a perfect fit.
You can only play one land per turn typically. With rocks, I can turn one a mana crypt into a Sol ring and mana vault and go to turn two with over 7 mana in play. That’s the difference.
Urza in brawl is really fun .. Portal goes into the deck too and tbh aether flux reservoir is a side win con . progress titan + extra trn spells as another . and karn as another win con
I agree with Crim about the Disciple of Calus Nin cost. As a comparison, Containment Priest is a similar punish for blink and flicker effects, and is flash at 1W
@@Sinistra359 That's exactly why it's so expensive. If Containment Priest also got rid of stuff when it came down, then it would also be more expensive. The point of this is not to just "punish the Teferi's Pro player".
@@Sinistra359 1. All other phasing cards (Oubliette, etc.). 2. Disciple has another effect. It gets rid of things (by phasing them out). Containment Priest isn't ALSO a minor board wipe. They really shouldn't be compared, especially mana-wise.
@@brningpyre bro I understand why it's 5 costed and I'm not ignoring the pseudo board wipe effect. I'm arguing that it's too heavily costed and doesnt do enough if youre gonna run it solely for a teferi's pro counter. Wtf are you even talking about lol I've read the card bro I know what it does, now read my comments correctly 😂
Actually, there already is phasing hate. Phasing happens during the untap step. If you make someone skip their untap step their permanents don't phase in. You could hypothetically answer a Teferi's protection by casting Whir of Invention to tutor up Sands of Time which permanently makes players skip their untap step and untaps their stuff in the upkeep instead. Same with Yosei, the Morning Star and a sac outlet.
Brotherhood’s End is solid but not a staple… a great build around… but like Tomer said you don’t want to lose your own rocks… so Gruul control decks seem like an ok fit… but in Green I can run a creature that hits all artifacts not just under 3cmc
Disciple of Caelus Nin seems great in any aggressive white deck? I already played it in Burakos/Folk Hero where I keep my creatures and Burakos still gives me Treasures to do things
The old visions card Sands of Time is a janky phasing hoser because the untap step is skipped altogether. The rest of the card is really annoying and isn't nearly as powerful since they removed mana burn.
Whats important is a LOT of 1 sided wraths destroy/bounce all "non-land" permanents. So awaken the woods jukes those. So if someone does wrath, its not a one sided wrath. Which makes it even funnier. Also haste enablers as the "lands" don't enter tapped. So you can ramp into ramp. Because GrEEn.
I like the set overall, but during our prerelease most people agreed that it was not "that" great, in particular the limited environment seemed pretty weak, most people were ranting about their sealed pool (but maybe we just were all very unlucky ^^)
I agree with Seth about blowing up mana rocks. If you blow up mana rocks (other than the ridiculous ones like Sol Ring, Mana Crypt etc) all you are doing is handing the game to the green players. Unless you are the green player (Gruul etc) it’s total folly. Other players are a resource.
Urza turn 3 makes might/weak stone 4 mana from his discount. It also adds 2 mana when tapped. 7-2 = 5 Turn 3 urza 4 might/weak turn 5 meld plus 2 abilities. However urza doesn't search out the stones sooo.
14:35 If you hit everyone's rocks, they can still keep playing. They'll be slowed down, but they don't need to sit there for 20 more mins doing basically nothing.
Awaken the woods + Field of the dead works right? That would be sick, get zombies and the dryads (yes field of the dead would need to be online already)
I’d wager that a fixed Balance type card, which blew up all the ramped lands or lands in play in excess of the turn, used responsibility (not to wipe out all lands), would be fine in most playgroups. Problem is tracking, and abuse (haha I sac all my lands then balance is miserable). People just want to play their cards, but totally recognize they are fair game if they’ve over ramped.
Like would “1RW sorcery : each player chooses 6 lands they control and sacrifices the rest. Exile all graveyards” be so egregious? I think that would be fine, and you wouldn’t get any more hate than a turn six vandalblast…or maybe “2RW each player chooses 6 lands they control and sacrifices the rest. Create an elemental token with power and toughness equal to to amount of lands sacrificed this way” less hate more board impact?
I miss my top card of the set: Demolition Field It's a strictly better Field of Ruin that goes in any deck, that doesn't ramp the rest of the table. And yes unlike Strip Mine it's 2 mana to activate but it doesn't put you a land behind.
Ashnods ability doesnt work with mana abilities because they dont use the stack and in the rules of magic copying something that doesnt exist on the stack or in any other zones isnt possible
Teferi's Protection is exiled upon cast, at the least. All the counterspells and extra turns of blue, tutors and control of black, ramps of green are repeatable if you want, or have multiple variations thereof. White has had a history of slow build rate due to ramp issues, being able to protect that board state after all the time investment was needed. I will say, it should have been at least 2 white pips to cast, though I do not have a problem with it existing. I was far more worried about Disciple of Caelus Nin before I read phasing rules. She's just there to perpetuate a little white on white violence, but certainly can be abused for benefit just as easily as she is harmful. I feel Brotherhood's End will see a lot of play in the format, solid card and modality has proven to be strong and popular. For losing rocks vs. lands, I feel it's also a matter of play rate limitations. Generally, lands are more difficult to get more than 1 net per turn on the board, though more powerful when you do. Getting more lands per turn takes a specific build, usually, whereas the same may not be true for rocks. Even returning from graveyard there's certainly a benefit to getting a bunch, or even incremental lands back, but that may not give you a win con that you need, whereas getting your rocks back generally means your getting other artifacts and possibly creatures/enchants/planeswalkers, of which you may have multiple win cons or combo pieces coming into play with the rocks to use for costs as well. I like Portal to Phyrexia, though the only deck I would run it in can't fit it, and I feel like it's just a little too weak for the number of token decks in my play group. I feel it's only worth cheating out or flickering, as the second ability is lack luster, would have been stupid busted if triggered EoT. Awaken the Woods is legitimately busted. Period. I'm neutral on the Transformers, none of them are busted, though I do like the thought of what Ratchet and Starscram can do. Definitely putting Blast-Furnace Hellkite in my Kaalia deck. Might work out to give political leverage instead of pure hate. Loran is the card white wanted, and it's the card white deserved. Definitely a staple purely from Rec Sage historical usage. Terisian Mindbreaker is pretty cool, I'm debating if it's worth reworking my Obeka Treasure Clone deck. I already have ways to clone it and abuse the unearth. I think Gix is cool, but intensive cost and you're relying on opponent cards. Overhyped especially in non-combat meta. Remove the Gix player and play enough card draw of your own to not regret it. One with the Multiverse is a good addition to the suite of cards that fit this niche. Just enough of an upgrade to be desirable by adding another bonus.Steep cost, but it will see play. I think Defabricate is a solid card in the right circumstance. Plenty of artifacts win the game or are crucial combo pieces, so putting them into exile before it has any benefit at all is really nice. The modality on this card is where it's really nice, secondary use keeps this card from being completely useless if you were tapped out when a threat was cast, or had no other answer. Certainly a narrow usage, but still very useful in commander. Urza is not as good as everyone's freaking over. He's good, but Meld sucks. I've made Brisela like 10-15 times since released, and she's removed immediately. I still play them because it's fun to pull off. You can have fun playing this, but recognize you will have the 12 mana invested into this melding, and then you'll have either of them removed in response, or bounced and you have to dump more into it. There's more you can do to win the game for less mana. Titania has same pitfalls as other meld cards, but I feel will rebuild more readily. Much easier to get out over and over, but to what effect? Probably pretty strong, overall everything weighed in, it's likely the best of the three. I like Ashnod a lot. Debating tearing down Obeka to build her, and part of that reason is.... Sardian Avenger would wreck my Obeka Treasure Clone deck if I'm not sitting on removal... thankfully it's just 1 toughness. I'm super excited for Urza's Sylex for my Shorikai deck and my Aminatou when I finish building her. So easy to tutor for in an artifact themed deck, you get a board wipe that can have more uses. Not entering tapped makes this amazing, especially with the many ways to break parity or recover immediately that are in white... LOVE this card. I might put Karn in back in Shorikai when I get this. Starscream is probably my favorite, specifically for the thematic representation. Perfect. Can be strong, but makes you a big ol' target. Third Path Iconoclast is a really solid uncommon. I put Monastery Mentor in my Shorikai deck for use with my Sensei's Top lines, and it makes crazy numbers of tokens even without that combo line out. TPI is going to be really good in an Elsha of the Infinite, Brudiclad or similar decks. Not a bad set, storyline S+, many great hits on flavor/gameplay. I like the multiple iterations of iconic characters too, it's like they grew as they got older.
theres a niche hate card, an enchantment, you can pay life to prevent things from phasing. thats the only counter play card I'm aware of besides this new one.
I don't understand how Disciple of Caelus Nim locks someone who cast Teferi's Protection out from play. It doesn't phase the player out, and if it did, players aren't permanents.
To me the difference between Armageddon effects and vandalblast is that generally u can only play one a turn. There are a bunch of effects that get around that like solemn and most green Ramp but as a general rule of the game you only play one a turn. Man rocks can chain together and ramp you more than say a rampant growth cause you get to play a land and cast a rock then use the mana rock to cast something else. Rebuilding after an Armageddon is also harder than Rebuilding after a vandalblast.
>hasn't discovered nature's lore >unironically thinks rocks are better than pseudo unremovable land-ramp Could you be any more wrong? Especially now that almost every green deck is getting back stuff from gy so they can repeatedly use Sakura tribe elders or wood elves from gy with all their extra mana when they have nothing else to do, making them even snowballier.
@@charliewright2667 i use three visits and natures lore all the time so its not that I don't know they exist its just that most of those effects but the lands into play tapped with those 2 and Skyshroud claim being the exception that put them in untapped. I didn't mean to imply one form of Ramp is better than the other just different. Land ramp is more safe and reliable while artifact ramp can be more explosive but easily disrupted.
Disciple of Caelus Nin is a card where I'm glad the text on it exists but the card itself is pretty garbo. The phase 'hate' is honestly pretty niche when you think about it.
I'll admit the transformers cards in a booster was unexpected, I would have bought secret lairs personally, but I really like them. They mechanically are pretty interesting. Starscream is a flavor win too.
Isn't Portal to Phyrexia strictly worse than Necromantic Selection? It has to survive a whole turn cycle to get the effect that you want, and usually if you need a big board wipe you want everything to go, not just some mana dorks and tokens...
