@@michaelbesser5348 Seth and Titania are what we like to call "Oifey's" a subclass of Jagens that are normally younger in age, Have decent stats and Growths in all areas and can remain useful throughout the whole game.
In Earthbound there was that deadweight character at the start that curls up into a ball and does nothing whenever you summon him for an attack. It was freaking hilarious. Such is the charm of Earthbound! It breaks all of the conventions of RPG genre.
@@dracoerrarus4834 You'll note, though, that it's never Him alone. Thoughout the entirety of Earthbound, he's relying on other things. He never gains anything of his own work, relying on Carpainter, his father, and eventually Giygas for influence and power. Even at the end of the game, he stole a Phase Distorter, used a powerful machine, and fought alongside Giygas. He never fights you alone, or even with his own strength. Even at the end of Mother 3, after forcibly taking over the Nowhere Islands...He's still in a powerful machine that was built FOR him. He did nothing. even the Absolutely Safe Capsule was built by Andonuts and the Saturns, not him! He didn't take over the Nowhere Islands, His army did! He didn't build the Chimeras, he didn't train his forces... He had the world handed to him, he had IMMORTALITY handed to him! And truly, that's the greatest tragedy of him. This young boy never worked, and gained everything he could have ever wanted...only to realize at the end, that everything he wanted...Wasn't what he wanted at all. He'll never get that, now...He's forever locked in the Absolutely Safe Capsule...Even after the Sun explodes, he'll still be there. An old man who never grew past the jealous child he was in Earthbound, who never worked for anything granted to him..and thus, he never learned of more important things in life. Even though he wanted them, which is why he treasures his memories of Ness so deeply.
I'm almost impressed how this random JRPG list brought out all the Fire Emblem RU-vidrers. Was this linked somewhere or is this really the algorithm bringing us all together?
@@OnlineVideoSurfer i think some part of the algorithm shows you videos that people you watch have watched. Links were probably still involved at one point
#2 is a perfect example as to why i feel Fire Emblem shouldn't be considered a JRPG. it's obviously a Japanese role playing game but its the connotation that comes with that title that is incredibly misleading. Especially since the main focus is the strategy/resource management, and Jeigan is a resource. Applying RPG nomenclature to a game that's really its own paradigm is the root as to why people have such hard time understanding the series.
I really don't think that's the reason why people end up having these sorts of opinions. Something that's important to establish is that most people who play RPGs are really bad at them, but RPGs have the intentional design decision to allow grinding past these hard parts to make the games more accessible. Because this is the case, most people who play a lot of RPGs will hit a hard part and will grind before actually taking advantage of all the tools offered to them, and this mindset gets carried over to Fire Emblem. It's usually assumed that the issue is their characters didn't have high enough stats rather than that they played poorly, so anything that looks like it could end up with worse stats when you're relatively new and don't actually get how high your stats will be and the value of a point is something to stay away from.
Tangentially, berserkers totally have their place in FFV, too - at least, the berserk ability they impart. A party of berserking monks can beat Atomos for you while you go make a sandwich.
Also for the final dungeon you put him, Mog and Gau in a party with Cyan, so everyone is acting independently while Cyan charges up his sword tech - that's a use! :)
Lol Jagens are actually really good. They help you fight through tough early game enemies and can provide good chip to enemies anyways to help your early game team kill them and gain experience. Also, you can just drop Jagens when they stop being useful. There's no penalty for dropping them mid to late game. Also leveling up doesn't matter that much in Fire Emblem, for whatever reason, in almost every game in the series, you get really powerful prepromoted units who are immediately useful at base level such as Wendell, Book 1 Minerva, Sirius , Book 2 Palla, Sigurd, Dagda, Oifey, Percival, Marcus, Seth, Titania, etc., so you can use those units as well as units who have strong bases and growths. Also Jagen is a mounted unit and having eight move is almost always good in every turn based strategy game. Also Jagen can use Silver Lance at base, an extremely powerful weapon, which is great for powerful bosses, accentuated by the fact all these other unpromoted units in the early game will come nowhere close to having the weapon level to use it. For, examples of bad units in Fire Emblem, pick Est archetypes who join too late and too weak to contribute anything during their join, which means they don't contribute anything and can't contribute for very long since they join so late, are very difficult to train and only offer a marginally better unit for your troubles. Also, mediocre base stat units and units who join way too late are good examples as well like Sophia, Karla, L'Rachel , Wolt, Lot and Wade just to name a few. In conclusion, just use Jeagens, they're almost always really useful for at least the early game.
Ironically the best jagan's that you're referencing are called "Oifey"! ( the biggest hint is that they're younger than what the typical Jagan is suppose to be, people still confuse Marcus in Blazing Sword as a Jagan when he's only a jagan in Binding blade where ironically he fits the character a lot better you know being an actual old man in that one where in Blazing Sword he's at best is middle-aged I guess) Do you are right many of the Jagans NOT oifey's can still be viable. I mean Gilbert isn't bad in three houses especially if you f***** up the requirements to get Dedue back and even then I still keep him in use. And Gunther in Conquest is still viable. I never liked using in much in Revelations where he plays the Trope straight because of you know that stupid twist with him in that version of Fates. But the only negative he has in Conquest is low growth rates make him more viable of getting RNG screwed later on if you're not careful, but his bases are decent enough when he comes back in Conquest to still make him viable. I mean Mycen in gaiden used to be the greatest example of a bad Jagan since he joins at the tail end of the end of the game! But Shadows of valentia did a good job at at least making him viable for end game and the extra chapter. Thoughe he can be overshadowed because of Zeke/Camus and Matilda
@@paulman34340 Actually I'd say some Jagens like FE6 Marcus are even better than Oifey since you can still complete the game and the early maps without using Oifey where as it's very difficult to complete the early game on harder difficulties without using units like FE6 Marcus. When they are no longer useful, you can replace them better units. Overall, they can end up being better than Oifeys depending on the game (like FE4). Of course, some Oifeys come Chapter 1 and are so thoroughly broken that you can solo or almost solo the entire game with them, but those units are usually the most broken units in the series. That is to say Oifey < FE6 Marcus < Insert Broken Unit Here
@@helfyr9656 yeah agree. the one major thing to remember with their types are it's a coin toss on whatever they still remain good and useful or not near the mid game to end game unless you get RNG-SCREWED with them! All my played the ruse of both the radiant games. Titania always remained in my final Paladin option! Loved her character she never got RNG screwed like at all! To the point the only other Calvary I was willing to use alongside her were Oliver because of the fact he's with you in the beginning alongside her and ironically She & Him fit The Red Knight Green Knight characters who join you early in the game then that red Knight dude who joined you much later is, a Cain character he didn't impress me as and I love Cain! It's actually kind of ironic how that guy is more of an Abel as in Abel in Mystery of the fire emblem in being a Calvary who joins a bit late to the party! I felt Titania was like a weird mix of jagen, Oifey AND Cain in her characterization while still having unique traits for herself! In a way the Mycen Jagen sub type was only really used again before shadow of valentia by Elincia's uncle in radiant Dawn! Think about that just like with him they're both gold Knights who embodying overrated and underleveled as every other night pretty much beats him out by the time he joins in radiant Dawn. Many of those Knights and I don't mean the armored ones! But many of them have the advantage of if you ported your Path of Radiance save so they get a power up. The only useless Knight is that one blue armor chick whose name I will forever forget because even the writers of the game forgot her after she joined... You know like they did with a lot. Never thought she'd be more useless than best Pegasus Knight's older brother! Hell I'm still mad at what they did to Astrid in radiant Dawn. Both her stats and her character! Like the only redeeming quality with her character was her boss conversation with Lekain! at least connecting why she ran away from home in Path of Radiance! Knowing his character and everything he's done in the radiant games story, majorly in radiant Dawn and the backstory of the games. She really really did dodge a bullet with him LOL
>Jagen from Fire Emblem *BOI* There's a ton more bad characters than Jagen objectively. Let me list a few Miranda (Thracia 776); A late game mage who's stats are pathetic and her growths can't do shit. She ends up promoting into Mage Knight, a class that she can't make any use of really due to Thracia mechanics Tailtiu (Genealogy of the Holy War); a Foot Unit without Pursuit in a game where Being Mounted is a prerequisite for being even worth a damn in most cases 9/10 Armor knights; slow, clunky, and Mage fodder with always less move than their comrades. And the king of trash, FE12 Bantu; There Is nothing redeemable about this piece of garbage. Most Jagens have decent Use for chip damage, and some Jagens are just busted regardless. Frederick, Seth, Titania, Dagdar, And Marcus all are very decent units, and In the case of Seth and Titania, are some of the best units of the franchise, only ousted by Female Robin in Awakening and some others. Rant over
Sophia? Maybe I'm biased because the mission she's mandatory in is horrendous, but an "Est" she is NOT. Besides, Reigh is a better Shaman on all fronts, and that's before you get Niime and seal the deal.
The Est archetype is usually pretty pisspoor too. Nino's a level 5 Mage you get five chapters from the end of the game, as an example. Even if you train Nino up, she's only beating Pent in speed and maybe a magic point or two and that doesn't matter because Nino's constitution hampers her speed so much. A lot of the 'replacement' units in Shadow Dragon are pretty bad too. You know, the ones that come near the end of the game and are obviously there to replace the Paladin you accidently let die or something? Amelia's pretty awful too.
okaaay... i've never played Star Ocen till the end of time (or not for long ... i had it but sold it) but sorry Adray IS a hot muscle Daddy where my Gaydar simply explodes xD
Jagen, the worst? Jagen and his descendants are literally the best character in most fire emblem games. They do nothing but help you, and are nearly essential to playing quickly and efficiently on higher difficulties. And I KNOW you aren't talking about Seth when you group up Jagens as bad. Seth isn't a man, he's a mountain in the shape of one. Not using Jagens is a pitfall of the highest order.
@@MHMistol kinda, but that's more because higher difficulties cause the differences between units to become more pronounced than some specific quirk of high difficulty. It becomes much harder to favor weak units enough for them to take off, so a unit that can take care of themself is valuable, and a unit that can take care of themselves so well that they can give some of their resources to other units is invaluable. Jagens let you get away with babying growth or meme units by picking up their slack, as well. Any unit can excel on easy with all of your resources dumped into them, especially if you grind, arena or reinforcement abuse, or what have you. Jagens excel in the most challenging environments, support the rest of your team, and do it all for free. Most of them actually never get "bad", either. They stop soloing maps, sure, but they usually continue functioning as average, or even good units after that. And that's not taking outlier cases like Seth, Titania, and Haar into consideration, who never actually "fall off", either.
The Jagen replacement in mystery of the emblem has bad stat growths and wont carry you far ar all. He's also sickly and dies after the game is finished.
Omfg Rafa & Malak are WORTHLESS. Their random spells are worthless. The funny thing is the story says that Duke Barinten killed their parents to get their skills. And I'm just like "OMFG why did Barinten even want their skills?"
@@stevenmorton2059 Items to Heal? What kind of joke is that? Massive PA Chakras and Night Sword only. That is, of course, if you let your enemy even touch you.
You really missed the ball with the Jeigan entry. Especially in harder difficulities they are crucial to winning in the early game as they are the only characters that can take a hit or 2 aswell as softening the enemies up for your weaker characters so they get the exp The silver weapons the join with are for killing bosses and problematic units, the other weapon (usually steel or iron) is meant for softening up enemies. The rest was quite fun though
@@lifeloverNorris seth its no needed and gets a low stats ...but you can grind in that fire emblem. But yeah in lunatic you use little J oldmand because you need the best of the best camus can be kill in the mission that you have to protect the children because all enemies have silver weapons.
Ah yes, I totally remember killing an enemy with Jeigan and Marth's experience bar getting empty due to his stealing. Seriously, Jeigans are not useless nor the worst units in FE games. I thought this line of thought vanished long ago
Aiden David est is not terrible she just need tons of exp which arena comes to play her stat growth is basically one of the best she just joins at a low level (the only reason why nobody uses est is cause caeda with winged spear exist) which is the better peg knight however est ain't terrible
I dunno how this dint occur to people to have jaigens switch to a weaker weapon and have other use his strong one .... And use jeigan's as tanks which their role is to tank hits early game (I never had that problem) even when I played FE12 I barely got to use Aaran which is like the jeigan ...... I dropped using Aaran after I got to promote my Norne to sniper and reclass her to general and she's to some people are almost as worst as gordin
@@scarletrose8766 You are right about being able to train Est, but training her is the problem why she is a considered a bad unit to begin with. In fire emblem every unit, if trained can become good so the quality of units is usually decided by how they preform in a semi-optimal playtrough were bases are more important then growths. This is why Jagens are often considered to be one of if not the best unit in their respective game (especially the ones that also have good growhts (Oifeys) like Seth or Titania). Another reason for bases over growths is that most games have been proven to be beatable with no growths. Est archetypes are really fun to use tho
Gangster Samurott I mean more than likely est is still vulnerable to archers and its how you use their types even with est at her best she still wouldn't mop everything also I really don't rush FE to be honest especially who the hell dosent try to grind when its on lunatic/maniac mode I also don't think training is a bad thing cause it kinda fits the story a bit est being the youngest of three peg. Knights and less experienced in battle the only real bad thing about est being a peg knight thou is balisticians exist in the game but anyway growth isint really a bad thing per say cause some have good stats like minerva then later they get outclassed by units that aren't pre promoted (although what makes Minerva great is the Axe she has) so she's probably the only pre promoted unit that I would actually use
>Calling Jagen bad in 2020 For a moment I thought this video was released 13 years ago, because that's some REALLY outdated information here. At worst a Jagen archetype unit can still help the earlygame parts of their respective game (wich tends to be the hardest part anyways) more consistent, and even if they eventually fall off, they can still be useful on different ocasions because of the combination of good class + high weapon ranks. And of course there are the Jagen characters who ends up being so good that they are the best unit in their respective game. Remember kids, base stats are much more reliable than growth rates.
Time for some context then: The information on the video regarding Jagen used to be the common sense back in 2006-2007 (Hence why I said the video was 13 years old. I never called anyone a kid), because at the time, the games were still very new outside of Japan, and not many people played FE gmaes to begin with, so the lack of experience and knowledge of game mechanics made people believe on such things quite easly. However, as time went on, the playerbase slowly started to realise that what they belived to be common sense was actually entirely wrong, and were making the games harder for no good reason. The problem is that newer players are likely to stumble upon those very old forums when looking for information about the series, or even this video that is recent, and set themselves on a much more frustrating experience, and making it harder for them to really enjoy and get into the series, all because of missinformation. And if you find Fire Emblem to be trash, that's understandable, all games have flaws that makes them not enjoyable for everyone, and it's fine.
Great points about Cid. I would add that his short comings are highlighted even more in the GBA and PSP versions endgame. He has the most HP...yeah that cool but Cid can't equip heavy armor and because he's a melee fighter it's the equivalent of a mage in the front row. Edward is pretty busted in the endgame since half of everything is weak to Apollo's Harp. But hot take, I think Edge has a spot there with Cid. In the GBA and PSP versions everyone can do everything better than him. Cid may not be able to take a hit but he has HP to back it up. And in the DS remake when Edge meet Yang he said "I'm your better replacement". Are you Edge? are you? Mister I can't equip claws in the DS version.
yeah tbh i didn't like Edge also... i mean... he has some okayish ninja techs...which suck if you have Rydia ... he can do some good damage but yeah ... nothing special
Cid was my hard carry in the GBA version if you get his Ultimate weapon he's the strongest dealing over 3000 damage with each hit and to be honest although he didn't have the armour he always took the same damage as Cecil against zeromus. And the way you say Edward gets better at late game bro if he gets better at late game by that point Cid will have max hp
Can't speak for FE1, but Jagen is really good in Shadow Dragon on DS, Marcus (FE7) and Seth (FE8) are both Jeigan and also the best units of their games. Titania in Path of Radiance is a solid unit for all the game and you can't beat Awakening in lunatic whitout Frederick. Gunter in Fates is really bad.
Its only because you guys grind your units they should be used only to get a nice rank in the first part of the game.later you should forget about them the others get double the stats in half the exp.
@@ricardohernandezr5765 in Games like FE 7 ennemies stats are so low that it really doesn't matter to have overkill stats. There is no difference between dealing 20 times 2 to an ennemy whit 40 hp or or 35 x 2 to another one whit 40 hp.
@Shaman Xeed I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume that you've never played a fire emblem game. It's okay to dislike something but there's no reason to insult others for liking it
Should've been Gunter from FE Fates, he's the only "Jaegen" that I'll acknowledge as being terrible (especially in Revelations), otherwise "Jaegens" are extremely powerful units. Also if it came down to picking bad FE Units there are plenty of stinkers out there that are arguably worse than even Gunter.
Mike Rotch Gunter isn’t even bad. He’s a Corrin pair up bot. His personal skill makes it clear. He can also reclass to wyvern in order to give Corrin more mobility if you don’t have Corrin as a flier
In the Fire Emblem series the Jagen character archetype utility vary from game to game, but it is usually somewhere inbetween "good in the early game, eventually becomes obsolete" to "godlike for the entire game". And while I would agree that the original FE Jagen is not in the god-tier, he is still a good unit. Learning how to use Jagens in Fire Emblem actually helps the overall growth of your entire army, because: - Jagens begin the game so strong that they need little to no xp to be effective, even in later chapters. Given that FE is a strategy game series, based on correct distribution of limited resources (and XP is a limited resource in most of the games) having a character that can cover one of the numerous character slots without competing with everybody else for XPs and still be good is an immense boon. - Jagens can help other characters growth by setting up enemy kills, just have the Jagen use weaker weapons so that he weaken an enemy to the point another character can kill him withe ease for a bunch of sweet kill XPs. - Given that Jagens start the games with high weapon skill levels they have instant acces to advanced high-rank weapons that no one else in your army will be able to use for a while. Such weapons are usually a valuable boon or almost a requirement against some of the early game bosses(and/or other problematic early game enemies) that could be way too dangerous for your other inexperienced and way weaker characters. This prevents character death that, as you correctly pointed in the video, is permanent and would either require re-playing the entire level from the beginning or substituting the dead character with a less used, lower level and probably less skilled unit. - Even if somehow you don't like the idea of making the life of all your other character easier by actively using Jagens in combat (it's actually a dumb idea, since Jagens excel at fighting, but hey maybe you enjoy the extra challenge) they are STILL USEFUL. Given their overall strenght they are next to impossible to kill, so even if you strip all of their weapons they can roam safely around the battlefield being an enemy AI-taunting decoy, visting villages and rescuing wounded allies. This is made even better by the fact that the titular Jagen and most of the characters in the archetype are Paladins, one of the most mobile among the advanced classes in the series that also has very high rescue abilities (in the games that include a rescue mechanic); and since this is an advanced class your other cavalry characters won't be able to promote to paladin for quite a while. This of course means you can reallocate more of your other inexperienced characters to the fight itself (the source of XPs) by relieving them from those not-xp granting duties.
@Erik Valiente I can see your point but adding Jagan it’s still a bad because he’s really good at the early game but I understand he drops off by the made games but if you play hard five then he’s practically essential. All I’m saying is this it just sounded like she never played FE before. Also thanks for your opinion
@@Kairi091 Edward gets a Harp that gives massive Damage Multipliers against most Monster Types, and can hit 9999 on some enemies. He can also Salve X-Potions for 2,000 (4,000 in After Years) and Elixirs.
Umaro (with his Rage Ring) really helped me while leveling up characters in the dinosaur forest. I usually end up not equipping his Blizzard Orb though, because somewhere there's bound to be some annoying enemies whom absorb it (ugh).
Kinda expected when his character class is 'Mascot'. He's simply there for the completionists to acquire since it takes satisfying a lot conditions early game that can be easily missed.
@@Zavitor I feel that Claude from Shining Force 2 fits that kinda character better though. You had to work to get him but he was at least usable. Its just a waste of a character slot to have a hard to get character that isn't viable to ever use in battle.
@@RyanSaotome You just don't use him in your immediate party. He stays in the base with the bird couple and the regular knights not named Ken and Arthur. That said, you get nothing in the way of secret endings or bonus material for recruiting all possible members of the Shining Force.
Hahahaha gotta admit, my first thought when I heard "he's just a worthless piece of trash" was, "that was so mean!" But great video as usual. Great points about Cid.
I used Shir in my party in the latter stages of the game her speed saved me against a few bosses by healing quickly or applying buffs quick. Not that I'm saying there aren't better options. I just always tend to load my party with females so no Rudo and used Rolf, Anna, Amy, Shir.
Anna is kind of horrible TBH. She lacks good techniques and her slashers leave a lot to be desired (and having her equipped with two weapons means she'll have crappy defense). On the other hand, it's a really easy decision to give both Amy and Shir two shields since neither of them get access to any powerful weapons, and then you can give each of them one of the two Storm Gears that are available in the game.
Was really enjoying this video until you got to the number 2 spot. Jagen? Fucking Jagen is bad? One of the best character archetypes if Fire Emblem is bad? “Well they steal all the exp!” You don’t need to feed your tons of exp to win at fire emblem. Besides, Jagens are good because of their amazing starting stats and weapon ranks that can last them through the entire game. They don’t need stat growths to be good. I’m not gonna leave a dislike on the vid just cause you put Jagen on the list, but just letting you know, there are characters in Fire Emblem that are FAR worse than him (Vyland, Sophia, Meg, Shannam, Roger, etc.) Just take this as a learning experience. Otherwise, fun video
And of course Jagen is on the list. Despite being one of the best early game units in the game that can easily kill most enemies, he is considered bad by many. Although Fire Emblem: Dark Dragon and the Sword of light is a very easy game, in the most hardtest diffulty in the DS Remake, You cannot beat the early maps without using him. Just because a character has no growths does not mean he is bad.
Gonna call a bit on the Gobi Breath of fire there. He gets involved just as you do most of the underwater stuff. And is there when you have to do most of the fast travel via water. His combat underwater is extremely good. Where as... Mogu from BoF2 is perfect for this list. He can do nothing but melee (badly), use items. or dig. Dig is okay for escaping (but how often are you escaping?) Except. that its only valid in about 3-4 small areas of the world even. Which makes sense. Mogu is literally some random kid who joines up to dig holes for you.
Jogurt feels like a failed attempt at a 'mascot' character. His design screams 'engineered for franchise marketability!' Thankfully, that never happened - Jogurt only appears in the original and the GBA remake of the original, where he's just as useless.
@@likealaddertothesun Quite easily and happily, thank you. C'mon, it's not like I'm a sadist who put him in the party just to watch him get mercilessly murdered over and over again by enemies. I merely encouraged anyone who HAD such desires to act on them.
@@DoctorNovakaine I think the series coulda used a cute mascot character all things considered. Shining Force is dead, and the newer Shining games aren't the same. Yogurt was the hero we needed
"Edward is with you for two dungeons" And don't forget that's two dungeons filled with enemies susceptible to all the debuffs he can inflict, making battles a whole lot faster, as well as bosses he can outright avoid damage from to come back with a salve, and to say nothing of the near-comical levels of overpowered he is in the late game of certain ports. Edward certainly does not suck, in fact he's my favourite character the game, especially so since The After Years, in one of its few redeeming features, decided to develop him even further. Tellah is a really cool example of using game mechanics to put character development across - when you first meet him, he's got age and experience on his side and he carries the party with it. When he rejoins later, his age has caught up to him and it shows in the way he's used - all the best spells, but they completely wear him out in no time flat. Whereas Cid, yeah, he'd at least be good for tanking some hits if Cecil weren't already considerably better at it - I'd say he's there so that Yang only has a 50/50 shot of taking a hit meant for him :P
I agree. Maybe not the best for the boss battle, but when the party splits up he is packing a punch. Real was the character that always annoyed me due to her lack of attack and being just as good of a wizard as others.
I feel like Umaro’s badness is more due to how broken and powerful a lot of the other characters are versus how bad he actually is. I did a run with Mog/Shadow/Umaro/Sabin and was actually shocked at how fun it was. Umaro was my heaviest hitter for a huge stretch of WoR.
Samson is a solid point indeed. If his curse story arc was a side thing, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but they made his curse THE ABSOLUTE FOCUS OF THE FIRST ACT. Your entire adventure through many of the biggest dungeons revolved around curing his arse. As you said, since he is melee only, they should have made him a proper tank.
The whole purpose of a Jagen In FE lore is a unit who is supposed to make the early game easier. Especially on harder difficulties. They are supposed to be super useful from early to mid game then be about bad to trash by mid game to endgame. There are a few examples of none trash Jagens, these are called Oifeys based on the Fe4 character. These Jagens have good bases and growths and can be carried to the endgame as they will be either with your troops in stats or slightly behind other Oifeys are Seth (the most famous Oifey) Titania, Sothe, Marcus (in his FE7 form, not to be confused when he’s an old man in fe6) and Frederick. I also believe Felicia/Jakob (depending on gender in fates) also fit the role
Jogurt was handled poorly, what his ring should have done was either unlock his potential and allow him to be something unique like a Mage/Healer, or maybe allow you to pick another member of the force and Jogurt take on their stats
#9: Not to sound like I'm making excuses, but when you first get Samson he has an insanely high crit rate (based on my own playthroughs and lets plays I've seen of beyond the beyond) and one-shots enemies you encounter at the time. I think the problem was really that the game never compensated Samson for all the strength he lost from when he was cursed. Like there should have been a small stat modifier/multiplier applied to him upon removing the curse. Not to the level where he has a near 100% crit rate, but making up for his lack of magic by dealing higher physical damage, possibly being more resistant to status effects or having more HP/LP. #5: You are correct that their skills are useless in combat. The twins' only purpose in the story was to show that the Zodiac stones could be used for good, since Rafa inadvertently used one to resurrect her brother. On the fandom side, her talk with Ramza prior to the fight in Riovanes Castle led to some JP FFT fans to ship Ramza and Rafa.
I mean, they aren't that useless at all. Especially in the original game, i you want to keep them, and make them useful, you can give them a good generic job.
Imagine being way better than everyone when you join and being called bad because you don't get better. If only there was a way to bench Jeigan late game when he falls off, or make him weaken enemies instead. Oh well, he gobbles that Exp up like candy, nobody can stop him!
Literally shouted "YES" when you put Samson on the list. Beyond the Beyond was such a frustrating grind when you combined lengthy battles, long dungeons and high encounter rates. Adding to the fact that Samson would just randomly get hurt and not move was SO aggravating. I never understood why the developers decided on that, he's already weakened, just let that be the curse! lol
Thank you and thank you. The game was one of the most annoying ps1 games I had ever played. And samson just sucked beyoned belief. After he got the curse lifted I thought he would be better.
They handled a similar storyline much better in Tales of the Abyss with Jade. It was fun when Jade says he's finally back to his normal power much later in the game, when you see him now back when you were like level 10. No wonder the bad guys were scared of him lmao
Oof the FE community is gonna have a field day w/ this vid. Jagens are very good. They're free good units. If you gimp your exp distribution. That is on you as a player for feeding all kills to one character when said character's role is to help your army and make the game easier for you. Plus some Jagens like Seth in sacred stones outright solo the game.
Konghol from legend of dragoon. He was meant to be your strong but slow tank but his speed was so low most characters got 2 or 3 turns before he got even one and his magic defense was bad to the point where he'd almost die from a magic attack from a random encounter. Bosses could just one shot him as they tend to have magic attacks over physical. And to make matters worse his armor upgrades lower his magic defense even further. Also you don't even get his dragoon spirit from a story event until the last disc in the final dungeon unless you just buy it in the marketplace on disk 2.
Hi David! Love your work and your Let's Plays got me through tough times! I'd same Kimiari from FF 10 he just dies all the time and I lowkey have a hatred for blue mages. And YUKARI FROM PERSONA 3 CAUSE SHE CAN'T HIT JACK SHIT. Also, totally agree with Umaro.
Kimarhi is intended to be a jack of all stats; he can do pretty much anything you want him to, and his weapon has the same properties as Auron's. That's represented by his starting node being near many other more specialized nodes. Umaro's capable of some stupid strong damage that, while it doesn't rival Wind God Gau, is still pretty nuts. You just...don't get to control him. Fun fact about Umaro; he's the only character other than Gau that gets to equip the best armor in the game. It's generally accepted in the FF6 community that Cyan's the worst character because of his low MP/Magic stat (Magic is silly strong in FF6) and his worthless unique command. Being bulky doesn't matter too much in FF6 It depends on the game for Yukari. In P3, Yukari and Mitsuru kinda fill the slot the protagonist already does; being the party's healbot. Mitsuru's a lot less reliable than Yukari in P3 because of her interest in charming enemies and wasting turns with that. In P3P, she's a lot more useful on account of being able to control the entire party, though she's still not spectacular. Koromaru's probably the worst character in the game if I had to choose, since Fire damage is already covered by Junpei and he's a hell of a lot bulkier than the pup and Koro's useless against enemies that are immune to fire. Junpei can also hurt things when he's out of SP, unlike Koromaru.
I never understood why people thought Tellah was a bad character. He's really powerful at intro and by the time he falls off he's already on the way out. He's essentially a Jeigan, minus the option to use him in the late game... And then you talk shit on Jeigan right as I'm writing this, and demonstrate in your rant that you use him wrong. He only sucks up the xp you give him. And it doesn't matter if he does suck it all up because he's already strong enough to solo the game, which is what you're doing with him if he is sucking up all the xp. Give him an Iron Lance and he'll set up kills for weaker units, letting the units growth potential actually grow safely. In that regard he becomes even more useful after he drops off because he doesn't one-shot as many units.(Although he one-shots a decent portion of the enemies, even in the late game) It's not surprising that you don't like him very much because he subverts the expectations of the Genre. But he's far from useless. Hell your gripes about him derrive from him being a tad too useful, creating the temptation to overely on him. And because growths are small and random anyway, the maps are actually balanced around the base stats of the units they give you, as even balancing them around poor growth outcomes would gimp players who have overrelied on pre-promotes or had lost units. Once the game gets to where Jeigan's actually in danger of dying without some severe incompetence, everyone is in danger, whether they're leveled up or not. Leveling up is a bonus, not a necessity, and acts as a double edged sword, giving a false sense of security that unravels the moment a unit leaves their designated lane, regardless of how many good level ups they've had. Make the right decision and you win at base level. Make the wrong decision and you lose at max. Level up growths just give wiggle room for the kinda okay decisions to pan out okay rather than kinda, and reduced the number of situations where the right decision could still fail. The original Fire Emblem was just that type of game.
So a guy whose bases is literally worse than the bases of his own class that enemies have plenty of, has only 0% and 10% growths, and has no preference weapons could solo the game. Interesting. And don't say stat boosters. Not only do you have to get them in their own complications, but you could give them to other units anyway.
Putting Jagen on this list is straight up trolling. The Jagen units are the most important units in FE games because your weak army early game can’t take hits for shit. At bare minimum you can strip all their equipment and use them as tanks, and, in best case scenarios (FE7 Marcus, FE8 Seth and FE9 Titania) the Jagens are just straight up the best units in the game, capable of soloing the entire thing.
You say that like Radiant Dawn Haar, and Shadow Dragon Jagen reclassed to Dracoknight AREN'T the best characters in those games. Wyvern Jagen is best Jagen.
Was going to say something about the #2 entry Jagen and the fact at they're actually good units if not one of your better units depending on the game, but it looks like everyone is already doing that so yeah. If you want a Fire Emblem archetype to put in there, Est wouldn't be a bad choice. Join late in the game, when all your units are promoted, unprompted and low level so they tend to die if they get looked at by the enemy. Like Nino is okay if leveled up but all you get for all that effort on average is a Pent with a little less Mag and a little more Spd iirc based on average stats.
It always made no sense to me that Adray was non missable in SO3 but you could miss Nel. Nel should have been required, then Adray should have been optional, that way you could get Nel, Peppita and Albel instead of having to pass one of them up! Also Shir can steal the best item in the game, which is that megaphone thing that lets you save ANYWHERE. That alone makes her useful..but yeah, not in battle. Also you're 100% right about Cid in FF4!!
I dont understand why he downrated Shir. Even if he is bad at fighting, he has an important role to get the best weapons for Amy. The fire staff is rare but important!
I know right, I too am a simple man, I see something relatedto the PS II, I click. Props to Davidvinc he knows his staff, he might have missed the usefulness of having Shir go through every fight using head on Snow crown or keep spamming storm gear or crystal cape that does more damage than any other attack from the other members except for the slicers or Rudo's shooting fixed damage. He accurately describe her stats though if you had to rely on character skills only.
He doesn't know how to play. He thinks she can only use daggers. She can also use all the limitless items and since she's fast (key element), she goes first. Sucky player.
@@AngelsDenMV Hugh is the worst, then kain, then Amy who's only good for healing (useless in fighting and very slow). The optimal party is Rudo, Anna and Shir. How can you criticise a member of the optimal party unless you don't know shit about what you're talking about.
Jagens are free units that can hold their own and dont need to grow much and there is a lot of worth in that. If you're using a Jagen so much that it actually gimps the rest of your army, that's kinda on you lol. Meanwhile characters in this archetype are typically among your most valuable units. Edit: Just read the other comments and y'all make me proud lmao.
I will vouch for Jaegan forever. Yes, he absolutely sucks after a little while and he does suck up experience, but he's meant to be a crutch. Someone to save your hind at the last second in case you mess up. That's why they are generally Paladins, to also rescue people with their high Con. Not to mention in the DS remake, you can reclass him into a Dragon Knight. Just forge his Silver lance, and he will destroy almost anything the game pushes towards you.
Thank you! I’ve been asking for this for so long! Also good points about Cid. He doesn’t do anything notable, and as for Edward in the remakes he’s actually the strongest character in the game with the most broken equips and the highest stats
Jagen has great movement and decent defenses. Just having him running around with no weapon to distract enemies is way more useful than a ton of Fire Emblem characters could ever hope to be. He also won't "steal" EXP while doing so, because that matters so much apparently.
The exp police are hot on the trail of an unidentified elderly man on horseback. If you have any information, it would be appreciated. If encountered, DO NOT APPROACH, the suspect is considered armed, highly dangerous, and capable of soloing entire maps.
Umaro for real? he has some super strong equipement that makes him nearly immortal and he hits like a troll. And then you proceed to show footage of one of the hardest if not the hardest dungeon of the game the Magi Tower, in which, he's one of the best characters to bring in.
I totally agree about Adray. The worst part about him(and another new character who's basically just Cliff) is that they force you to choose to permanently get rid of 2 much more interesting characters.
Adray has two major drawbacks. 1. No armor worth speaking of. His best piece of armor is pitiful compared to the endgame pieces of other characters. 2. His high end attacks tend to be elemental, which REALLY hurts his usefulness against post-game bosses. The exception to this is Southern Cross. However, this requires him to get close to the enemy, which is extremely dangerous given his abysmal armor rating. Mirage looks like a Cliff clone at first glance, but her moves have a completely different feel than Cliff's. Plus, she's faster and a bit less durable.
I don't know how I used him then, apart from healing, his attacks are very slow. I even had him in the fight when reaching the very top of that 211 floor building in the post game. I would let the AI control him, set to just healing.
@@stevenmorton2059 blame the balancing on those who created The universe of the whole series of Star Ocean, on from the 4D. That was the worst way to twist the plot. Make it seem like everything that happened was in vain.
Going to make a minor case for Umaro before shitting on him further: Umaro's berserk status gives him the niche of being incredibly useful in the Fanatic's Tower. Mind you, you can berserk your own characters with a spell to have the exact same effect, but it's something. However, one REALLY MAJOR thing you left out for Umaro: He can't gain Esper stat bonuses, meaning end-game he is incredibly weak compared to your characters who can benefit from esper stat growths (This goes for Gogo as well). Not to mention you can't swap out his equipment, only his relics, meaning abuse of the max 129% Mblock (meaning 100% evasion against almost every move, to those who don't know) is impossible.
I would add Faize from Star Ocean 4. Like you mentioned with Adray, Star Ocean seems to have problems balancing mages. Faize has the moveset of a mage with the stats of a crappy fighter. All the other mages in the game at least got weapons that add to their magic power (aside from healing, they still weren't all that great), but Faize got some crappy swords that only boost strength. Sure, you can use the crafting system to tweak his gear to improve his spells, but that also applies to all the other mages in the party. Don't get me wrong, I liked him as a character and his design is cool. I mained him until he left the party and got replaced with someone who could do his job even better (had the best physical strength of the party and actually had physical arts to go with it). Love me a good magic swordsman, but Faize just ain't it.
I always wanted Faize to be good and tried to make him that way but it just never worked. He didn't have enough in either category to make it work. I may have preferred him as a character over his replacement but lord knows I preferred his replacements usefulness in combat.
Awww, I actually used Umaro in my last playthrough and actually liked him. He does loads of damage lategame and for some reason he doesn't take much damage from anything. I would say the tradeoff of being a powerhouse that you don't have to babysit in terms of HP makes up for not being able to control him. You don't really need EVERY character to be able to use cure 3/life 2.
"All Breath of Fire games have bad useless party members." Ryu, Nina, and Lin from Dragon Quarter sitting over in the corner, looking uncomfortably at each other, wondering which one it is. (But the secret is it's none of them.)
As that hypothesis would result in Dragon Quarter being a bad game, we can safely conclude that it is not foundationally viable. Also it's Bosch because he's a dick.
DUDE jagens in FE are SO GOOD you'll never need all of the experience and being able to rely on them for anything in the early game is amazing, of course abusing them is bad but you'll keep getting more and more units as the game progresses so you can just fill your team with newer units and train them up.
Gremio from Suikoden 1, not a fan of him. He's weak physically, doesn't have any useful spells to contribute either, has awful defense, AND he's a forced party member for like, 80% of the game or something.
Rafa sucks in the original version of FFT, but they seem to have buffed her quite a bit in the PSP port, because she ANNIHILATES whenever her spells hit, which they seem to do much more consistently often.
I 100% disagree about Shir in Phantasy Star II. In fact, I would argue that Shir is the best 4th party member, after Rudo, Rolf, and Kain. Why? Let's talk about who else you are going to put in that slot. Hugh? Nah. His techs are pathetic. They are instant death attacks that never work. Amy? She's a decent healer, sure, but she's also slow, and the weakest character with the lowest defense. She'll be healing herself more than anyone else; plus healing items in this game are OP anyway. A faster character would be able to heal better with items. Anna? She's actually pretty okay. Her slashers, however, start doing pathetic damage against enemies. As you progress later and latter into the game, you are going to relegate her to be your big item user, which she will be good at because of her speed. In fact, all of above characters are going to be using items most of the time, in battle. Stuff like the snow crown (Deban on the party), the Storm Gear (Gizan on all enemies), Amber Robe (Gires). Hey, do you know who the BEST character to use those items is? Shir. She's the fastest character. Forget about her techs, or her attack. Her SPEED puts her above the rest. Starting with the dams, you can have her open every battle with the Snow Crown, drastically lowering the amount of damage your party takes throughout the rest of the game.... and she's almost guaranteed to go first. This makes her a better support character than Amy. This is followed by Storm Gear spam... which is better damage than Anna's slashers (and they ignore defense). She can also use the Color Scarf for Saner (increases everyone's speed by 10, stackable), an the Amber robe for heals. Shir is objectively the best 4th character.
Sometimes I question you on every level. Gobi joins you literally right before the underwater segment of the game. Now granted, he's terrible and the underwater segment is fairly small, and only has 1 actual dungeon but he's given to you when he'd be at his most useful. Also Cid: Cid's use is entirely in context. Cid is a tanky character who can absorb an insane amount of damage even without metal armor and happens to have a decently powered non-metallic weapon. His purpose is entirely for the Lodestone Cavern. His use is minimal in the Tower of Zot, but compared to Edward who's only moment of being useful is dodging mom bomb. His salve is hot garbage and his sing is unreliable. Also Umaro: I will admit that Umaro is terrible, but I would still use him over Gogo. I mean I'd use him over Gau too, but that's because I'm too lazy to memorize useful rages and always forget what you're supposed to do for Wind God Gau. Also Jagen: The Jagen Archetype is to much for me to explain, but look up some videos on it. It gives context to Jagen and explains why his lack of use is often just as bad as his overuse. Also Jagens are not as prevalent as you make them out to be. FE1 FE3 FE5* FE6 FE14 (Revelation Route) As for every other character on here (other than Jogurt) I haven't play the game.
I use Cid in FF4 free enterprise, on my challenge runs ( bBAAAAQAAAAAAAAD4MgAAAOBvYwOu8xOggQ ) . His HP pool makes him a good berserker, and he can equip good armors.
you miss the fun part of having Jeigan, even if you remove his weapon he can still tank enemies if your playing easy to normal mode. making it a fun go-to help exp gain for others. the real arguement of worst unit would be your 1st manakete as he has the worst growth stat and his power is based on how often you get flame orbs for him to stay maintain his dragon form.
If you think Bantu is bad in 11, just wait until you play 12, where there's exactly 1 Firestone in the game, his stats are exactly the same as in 11, and the enemies are much, much stronger.
Jeigan is good and so are most of the other "Jeigan" characters. As long as you use Jaigen about as much as your other units, you won't gimp yourself. In fact, some of the Jeigans in later games can be used more than other characters without gimping yourself (FE8 Seth, FE7 Marcus, FE9 Titania). Don't ignore your Jeigans. That's a pitfall.
Wow another "Jaegens are shit cuz they hog exp from everyone else" pleb. Yeah try playing Fire Emblem Awakening on Lunatic or Lunatic Plus difficulty without using Fredrick once and see where your claim on the Jagen archetype takes you.
Easiest way to tell someone is garbage at Fire Emblem. “JaGeNs ArE xP tHiEvEs” they are put in the game for a reason. So people who aren’t trash can play on a high difficulty and not get softlocked in the first few chapters from overpowered bosses.
Your description of Gobi isn't quite right; the underwater section of the game only STARTS when you first get to control him, because you need him to get hold of the item that lets you go underwater at all! The real problem with him is that the first time you get to use him, he's underlevelled with crap equipment, and you have to solo travel across the map with him. That's definitely one of the toughest parts of the game, and the fact that he doesn't even have enough AP to consistently use his underwater-only spells that are his only real damage source/gimmick is the icing on the cake.
I hardcore disagree with your stance on Jagen/the archetype. Jagens are actually pretty useful units throughout the game, they really don't "steal exp," as long as you use them right. Jagens can often can help you get through the hardest part of a fire emblem game, the beginning, at a much faster rate than just using the standard team. While yes I think it's important to use other party members, Jagens do often add a lot of general power in the early game, and when used right, can also secure kills for your other units through chip damage. Furthermore though, in the earlier Fire Emblem games, growths aren't that high and bases are what really matter, I don't even think if using Jagen took all your exp, that the game would be too punishing. The only time exp distribution really matters in the first place would be the rank runs of Fire Emblem, but even in that case Jagens contribute to chip damage, and the speed of a map, which helps a lot on the ranked runs. Jagens are just really valuable throughout the games, especially again, during the hardest portion of Fire Emblem games, the start of the games. I wouldn't say Fire Emblem has really bad units, as there are units that are hard to use at first, but get better, which in essence are just the growth units. Or units with low move, but using rescue dropping can help a lot to mitigate that, although it can come at the expense of other units actions.
Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [0:33] - 10) Cid - Final Fantasy 4 [1:33] - 9) Samson - Beyond the Beyond [2:39] - 8) Shir - Phantasy Star 2 [3:32] - 7) Adray - Star Ocean 3 [4:26] - 6) Gobi - Breath of Fire [5:30] - 5) Rafa and Malak - Final Fantasy Tactics [6:20] - 4) Umaro - Final Fantasy 6 [7:27] - 3) Ceramic - The Magical Land of Wozz [8:28] - 2) Jagen - Fire Emblem [9:28] - 1) Jogurt - Shining Force
I got a list idea. Top 10 Optional/Hidden Party Members. 7: Adray is actually optional, I missed him the first time I played. Also Cliff can even do Symbology better. The Strategy Guide taught me this, but that item you get that teaches healing spells to someone? Give it to Cliff and buff his MP and Cliff basically becomes a Punch Paladin, a GOOD Punch Paladin. I'm not unconvinced Jogurt/Yogurt was meant to be an actual character, but they ran out of time and just made him a joke character to keep him in and at least give the players a laugh.
Theres not much anything that's redeeming about Beyond the Beyond. That game was chock full of disappointment that seemed to get more disappointing the further you made your way through the game. This guy is spot on with Samson too. I've never had a playable character more frustrating than him. I wanted to toss this ham and egger into a meat grinder. Quitting that game was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life!
You dont know how to play Shir and probably phantasy star 2 as a whole. Shir is super fast so she can use the limitless items first. There are some that heal (like aegis), protect and attack. She's great for strategies. Definitely the 4th member of the party if you actually know how to play.
The Jagen is a trump card to get you out of the early portions of the game. You've got to use him wisely. That's the idea. Seth and Fe7 Marcus in particular actually have good growths so they start good and can stick around til the end. On the other end of the spectrum is Gunter. Fuck me is he useless. In Conquest he's gone until the middle of the game, he gets a stat buff to compensate and you're forced to use him in at least one chapter but his growths are still horrible so he'll last a few chapters at most. But that's not why he's dead weight. The problem is this is Conquest. Where you NEED party members that will last, exp is very limited and the maps are designed to make your life a living hell. Besides you get Xander straight after him anyway. Revelations actually has him join early again but his bases are so bad there I forgot he was a Jagen. His best use is as a pair up bot for the avatar if you don't mind your child being trash... but not in Revelations because he has no supports there. This old fart is in serious need of retirement. He can't do his job.
Gunter is actually really good, just as a pair up partner for Corrin. He can reclass to wyvern to give Corrin more mobility and gives them a +3 attack boost and +15 hit boost
Read Umineko You cowards Jakob and Felica (only the one you got first the second one sucks) have a similar pair up option personal skill and can still hold their own in a fight. Jakob especially with his great knight reclass can be a better Jagen than Gunter even with his problematic weapon ranks starting out and will still have room to grow. They also don't ruin Kana who could be a useful asset as well depending on how he's/she's built and how he/she grows. If Gunter is the father Kana will always be bad.
It's funny that I was literally thinking of Adray from Star Ocean and *boom* he shows up in the list lol. Probably one of the most flawed characters in my history of JRPG's. Not to mention, his mode of attack is to solely bash enemies with his sheathed sword lol.
That jagen take was pretty bad. Jagen himself is better then 80% of units in his own game. Seth, Marcus, Titania tend to be the best units in their respective games, this is a really bad take especially on harder difficulties.
Jagen is one of the best units in the game, if you don't want him to take up XP just use him to weaken enemies. His tankiness, movement, and silver lance all make him something no one else is (at least earlygame)
I saw Jagen in the thumbnail and knew exactly what the comments would look like. I do agree with the comments though he is really good in most games that have him and his whole archetype (save for gunther) is good in their own right
The other party members have much better utility but Umaro does have one thing in his favor. He's the only character who will never do useless actions in the Arena.
