Top Ten Liked Characters We're Supposed to Hate 

Aka: TV Tropes, Unintentionally Sympathetic.

"Charisma is not a factor; basically if you're intended to be entertained in the character's force of personality and relishing being a villain, I'm not counting them." Well, there goes Handsome Jack.

Josh: “I’m not apologizing for what I said about Abby though” Me: *thank u, u have every right to not like her*

Josh: "The devil. Satan. The first fallen angel." Ad starts: "I lost my job at age 56." Me: "Geeze, times really are getting tough when even the Dark One gets canned"

Worst of all in the Josh case, is that the reason why no doctor was able to help him, is because he was being treated for the wrong problem. After all, he was suffering from schizophrenia, yet all the prescriptions he got were of anti-depressants, which leave the main problem, his over-active dopamine unchecked (after all, they only tackled the decrease in serotonin), and it's specially appalling because it's something that anyone who has gone to medicine school should know, so the only explanation is that those doctors, simply didn't care enough to help him when he needed help the most. Also, it explains a lot his behaviour, since schizophrenia tends to have simptoms like auditory and visual hallutinations (the fact that he sees his dead sisters blaming him for not being there when he was so wasted that he couldn't do a thing), paranoia (he thinks that nobody cares for him, to the point that they would leave him to die even though he was about to be cut in half by a sawblade), social withdrawal (he things that what he does is socially acceptable, like, he even says that it was just a prank, which also, is a nice word choice, because they also thought that what they did to his sisters was just a prank) and disorganized speech (his rambling when he tells them that he was the psycho, it's so incoherent because they are portraying a book case of schizophrenia). It's quite sad that the one that has the least control over his life and the one that was begging for help can't be saved, after all, he either gets his skull crushed by a wendigo or he becomes a wendigo himself.

One character that comes to mind is The Pale King from Hollow Kngiht. Yes, killing thousands of your own children until finding the one who is truly empty of thoughts and emotions in order to trap the Radiance is horryfing and disturbing, but... what other choice did he have? The game never hints at another solution to trap or defeat the Radiance. Hell, Ghost, the protagonist, the character you control, his main objective is to trap the Radiance, and depending on your choices, he can succeed. if you obtain the Void Heart (which allows its host to become hollow) and defeat the Hollow Knight, the Radiance is trapped forever within you; and if you dream nail the Hollow Knight (again, after possesing the Void Heart), you can actuallly kill her, thus proving The Pale King right. What else could he have done? There was no other solution. He either sacrificed one of his children to trap the Radiance, or do nothing and let the Raidance escape from the dream world and mentally enslave the entire population of Hallownest, turning everyone into a mindless puppet whose only purpose is to worship her for eternity.

"Then you remember it's Satan." Oh thank goodness, I thought a spy was narrating this segment for a minute

As someone who picked Golden Deer first (wasn’t planning on it, but Claude’s charisma won me over)...yeah, pretty sure I picked my favorite route first. Claude’s ideals are, in my opinion, a realist’s approach to Friendship is Magic: wanting peace for all in a world where cultural boundaries are broken, yet knowing full well that such peace cannot come without sacrifice. Even so, he doesn’t let his goal blind him to his methods, and always tries to minimize that sacrifice to what is absolutely necessary. Godspeed, Claude; you are a ruler I would follow to the ends of the earth.

The clumsy manner mentioned in the final entry reminds of a timeless Heavy quote: "What SICK MAN sends BABIES to fight me?"

If guzma in this list then “it’s your boy guzma!”

#1 though. It's like Yoko Tara was screaming at you "HATE HIM! HATE HIM!" But the game failed to produce a valid reason as to why. Sounds a lot like today's political discourse...

I love Solas. He spent his life trying to free slaves from his peers, only to sleep for centuries and wake up learning he is villainized by the descendants of the slaves and the slavers are worshiped. And the red lyrium future trip the Inquisitor took was supposed to show how Solas sees the future he is in now. He feels like he made a mistake because he tried to help people but it just ended up worse, now he wants to go back and try to fix it. But if you befriend him this becomes torturous for him. Cause he made the mistake of befriending the people in this horrible future. So even though he is conflicted and feels horrible, he feels like he has to destroy everything to make it right again, even killing his friend and/or lover. It's soooo good!

The thing about Lucifer: While is aligned with Chaos, when he merges with Merkahbah to *become* Satan, they're ultimately on the side of Law; God's right-hand man.

Ah yes, Edelgard. It speaks volumes about how well she was written that she can still be a hot topic of conversation. What I think a lot of people overlook, though, is that she’s less of an absolutist in her own route. Despite her claims, Edelgard in Crimson Flower DOES have boundaries; she actively tries to minimize casualties when and where she can, and even offers her foes the chance to surrender when she sees them backed into a corner.

What a coincidence, I had just finished rewatching the "Hated Characters We're Supposed to Love" list.

Most Developers when they make a mistake: Never doing that again people hated it. Players: Don't drop it, refine it to perfection. Yokotaru: I shall take what I have learned and refine my idea to perfection. Players: Gives a thumbs up.

It is a weird thing, when you feel for a character you are told to despise. You are right about it not being very common, most of the time the person writing has to have enough talent to make a likable character while lacking the self awareness to realize that they made that character more sympathetic then they intended. That uncanny valley is very hard to actually get because most of the time bad writers simply imitate what they see successful writers do, resulting in characters that are flat and hard to relate to. It's rare to find that writer that is just competent enough to make a character unintentionally sympathetic, and that makes it more painful to see in writing.

"When darkness goes bad, everyone expects it. But when light goes bad, ironically no one sees it coming." Also, a world without darkness would be a white void, specifically the one from Paper Mario.

N is the best Pokemon rival. He's a great person but was manipulated his own DAD in order to destroy Unova. Man, and that BATTLE THEME.

Here’s another opposite suggestion Ten characters you LOVE to hate Basically characters you hate, but since their meant to be hated, you feel every satisfaction of hating them

So glad my boy Eraqus is getting the love he deserves! There's a certain complexity to him that I can't help but WANT to be explored: someone who WAS Light Is Not Good - for reasons that one can't help but understand - but realizes his mistakes and flaws that one would not expect from him. Wonder if he could get his own game...

Caim's unintentional sympathetic factors are ramped up to eleven in the sequel, and he's technically an antagonist in that one, what with seeking to undo the seals he once tried to protect. However, you can't really blame him; the one being he came to trust unconditionally - maybe even love - is in constant pain due to acting as the new seal for the world and Caim feels all of it because of their pact. The new governing body, the Knights of the Seal, strengthened the seal without consulting him, increasing both his and Angelus' suffering while also necessitating human sacrifices to keep these new seals in check. Those human sacrifices, you ask? Former soldiers of the Empire from Drakengard 1 who were brainwashed to serve its cause. The leader of the Knights of the Seal, Gismor, is himself a former Empire soldier yet feels no remorse in committing similar acts of cruelty on his own countrymen. Seeing as how the winning side of 1's story ended, it's no wonder Caim restarted his slaughterfest wholesale; everybody's either an asshole or an unwitting pawn who will bring forth the same exact conclusion in any case.

I'd be down for a list about the most controversial characters (The ones that walk the tightrope right in between loved and hated)

I absolutely knew a Danganronpa character would be on this list, but I didn't expect the Adult Resistance. I thought it would be Nagito or Kokichi.

Solas is pretty easy to get approval for. Be curious; almost every leftward selection will give you a slight approval bonus.

Tubba Blubba is such a fascinating case because I kept forgetting his motive. The more I think about it, the more I pity him.

Having only seen a playthrough of Until Dawn, I remember the person playing had absolutely no patience for any of Josh's behavior. And I just remember finding that... really disturbing, honestly.

I feel like you are supposed to be sympathetic for Rhea, Edelgard, Demitri , and Claude. Honestly three houses is one of the few games that properly does grey vs grey well.

I feel like Edelgard shouldn't really qualify. She's not supposed to be liked, but she's not necessarily supposed to be disliked either. The whole thing with Three Houses is how there's more than one perspective on conflict and how multiple people with good intentions can end up conflicting with one another. Edelgard in particular is very Lelouch-esque, where she has unmistakably good intentions, but the issue is whether or not her actions are justified by her motive, and the game doesn't really give you a concrete yes or no answer to that. Sure, she's quite literally demonized in one route, but only the one where you're sided with Dimitri, who wants nothing more than revenge against her.

"Just goes to show the Golden Deer was the best route." Fear the deer baby! XD

Is Edelgard supposed to be hated though? I see her as a character you're supposed to come to your own conclusion about. Being dead centre on the fence of hero and villain. That being said even if you chose her house she still tries to backstab you once before you get to side with her and spitting in the face of my loyalty is a good way to never get it back.

Unfortunately for the #3 entry...you have to blame a stupid book for causing everything, because 1 man saw into the future, wrote everything down, and if anyone acts out of line and tries to change the future, they'll just stick you in a prison because you "acted out of line"

Zero from Drakengard 3 isn't a villain protagonist. When you get to route D you learn that literally every kill she made is 100% justified and for saving the world. It's supposed to be a reverse of Drakengard 1 where at first you think Caim is a righteous noble hero only to find out he's a murderous psychopathy, while in Drakengard 3 you first think Zero is a selfish evil villain only to find out she's the selfless good guy.

Ah, Josh being a Golden Deer of culture as well, I see.

You just made me sympathize with a crazed yet remorseful soldier, a man doomed to go mad in his own mourning, and the punishing demon of Pride.

At least you're not trying to say what Edelgard did was okay. Honestly, if Rhea really wants to keep the crest system, she wouldn't endorse Hanneman's research that would ultimately set people free of the system, especially with Lysithea on his side. I know Edelgard can't 100% count on a research that doesn't yield immediate result, but considering no matter which path I pick, I can get Hanneman his good ending anyway, Edelgard's cause doesn't mean much to me lol. Hanneman deserves his own house with Lysithea as his second in command. He's the true hero of Fodlan.

So characters who fail at being hated then.

Thank you for bringing attention to the fact that Caim is NOT a complete and utter psychopath but has every reason to commit every murder he did. *The bells. The bells of the end.*

Damn, someone on the editing team likes Danganronpa

Here's a couple of things I wanted to bring up in your favor on your Number 1 spot, Josh: (Spoilers for anyone who hasn't gotten that far yet!) . . . . . . . - As confirmed by the second game (more specifically, in several of the weapon stories) Caim is implied to be suffering from severe untreated mental illness; if some of the stories are accurate, he's had trouble relating and feeling empathy to others even as a kid. This ties into the next few points: - He's a former noble, from a rather well-off kingdom; in real life, plenty of noble children and such were not raised the best, and became spoiled as a result. Granted, it's entirely possible that his parents were good ones, and he was noted to have been a good child to them and loved them dearly, but it's still a possibility. - He watched his parents get murdered right in front of him when he was a kid; more specifically, they were eaten by a dragon, which you can actually see, partially, in the video. That would not bode well for anyone's sanity, especially a child. - Tying directly into the above; as a result of his parents' death, he and his sister had to spend an extended period of time on the run, homeless; again, losing your family, your home, all the wealth and comfort you had, and the entire life that you were able to live to a psychotic death cult empire would not be good for someone's sanity. - After all of that above, he's been pretty much fighting the Empire since he was a child; by the events of the game, he's only about 24 years old. Being a former child soldier himself, of course he's not going to show mercy to the child soldiers the Empire was using; in his messed-up viewpoint, he probably doesn't really regard them as any different as any other Empire soldier. - Not to mention, he's the only guy that really seems to be competent in fighting the Empire, and he has to take care of his sister, the Guardian of the Seal. That amount of pressure + already fragile sanity = psychotic breakdown.

Jigsaw, that's the word that describes Josh in a nutshell, as that's what Josh reminds me of, he had no outright desire to kill his friends for what they did, he simply wanted them to face their mistakes and let them feel the terror that they caused. and one thing that derives this belief of mine is you can keep any of the characters from being killed in a run, if Josh had blatant intent on killing everyone, he sure as hell could've done so.

The joke you used to introduce your number 5 cracks me up. I sometimes wonder if they intend them to be some we hate very much, but get surprised when we actually do care for them, or even agree with what's being said.

I have to mention a overlooked part that people keep missing. Edelgard really didn't want to side with them but she knew that her ideals would be impossible without them. This is mentioned by Hubert before storming the great bridge of Myrdin that she did oppose the idea at first before finally deciding to give in. It was a painful choice because Thales and his cronies was responsible for crimes such as the experiments to infuse crests in to a person at the cost of a reduced lifespan in the imperial palace and house ordelia, experiments that turned humans into demonic beasts, turning the nabataeans in weapons, the insurrection of seven, having a "advisor" named pan manipulate Loog into making the kingdom, kidnapping Flayn to harvest her blood, killing Jeralt, Tomas, Monica, manipulating Nemesis to kill the nabataeans, depending on the route, corrupting Rhea's crest stone to turn her into a rampaging beast or reviving Nemesis and his allies, the remire calamity that made the villagers violent killers, all for their selfish gains. It was hard for her to choose whether to side with them or not. She also started the war because she wanted to have a conversation on more equal terms but her shortened life span meant she wouldn't live long enough to see it through. In the blue lions route she even turns herself into a monster out desperation just to see her goals because she became a ice queen. All of this happens because without Byleth she's merely a puppet used by those who slither in the dark. The support conversations that reference her past along with her support conversations with other characters lead to why she is going down that bloody path to the future that she and Claude seem to try and make a reality. This also hinted with her critical hit phrase don't waste my time. While it does sound cool, if you take the time to look into her character you understand the more tragic reason why she says it. These reasons make me understand why she is taking a shorter bloody path with all those sacrifices. I don't intend to criticize you but rather tell you a few facts you overlooked to help explain why she follows this path.

About Anakin: Palpatine started planting seeds of doubt in his mind since the day he arrived at the Jedi temple. Also, he knew that what Anakin needed was a parental figure, like what Qui-gon would have been if he became Anakin’s master, so Palpatine used that to his advantage

I was honestly expecting something a little more comical, where the creators attempted to make a character unlikeable, but did so in a way that made the character into a comic relief. Miu Iruma, for instance; she was created to be unsympathetic, rude, and extremely vulgar (basically, another version of Hiyoko Saionji), but the end result was one of the funniest characters in the series, especially when she interacts with Kokichi Oma. But, the sympathetic route works, too.

Even if he didn't make the list, I'm kinda glad Maruki from P5R was shown at the start as he's the character that to me embodies what this list is about. I absolutely could not like someone who essentially takes away the free will of everyone, but when you see his back story and what he does with that power to rewrite reality, I know there is part of me who would be tempted to side with him

I wasn't expecting that at number 1: I loved the Drakengard games, Caim and Zero are my favorite anti-heroes in particular, and i really like their relationships with their dragons at the end It just makes me wish for a remaster of those 3 games, even though 2 is probably the..."safest" of the trilogy.

Master Xehanort doesn't claim to hate the darkness, or at least he doesn't deny his malicious use of it. He specifically says the world needed someone strong to prevent the pollution of darkness from corrupting the world further. Basically, his ultimate goal was to rewrite the world to realign the balance of light and darkness, he needed darkness to do it and he didn't believe anyone else was capable of doing this without failing partway. In other words, his every evil deed throughout the series was for the greater good, at least from his perspective. Darkness was a means to an end to him; something that necessitated his self-appointed role as a villain in order to achieve his aims. He saw his actions as making every necessary sacrifice to achieve the power needed to fix a world that he viewed as broken, and the game doesn't necessarily endorse this viewpoint. Sora more or less tells him that even if Xehanort were right about what the world needs, he's not the right person to do it because of what he's done.

I think Eraqus is defensible because of his experience. Aqua doesn't have that excuse when she goes to try to murder the Tremaines, right as she might have been about that, but, at the moment, they weren't doing anything she needed to intervene against at that moment. She wasn't aware that they were domestically abusing Cinderella, but that wouldn't have been something she could use against them in the first place. Yes, Fairy Godmother goes on about the balance thing, but let's be honest, she was just trying to stop Aqua from being a Knight Templar In general, of the three, Aqua held the idiot ball the most when she was the one who should've been holding it the least. It's kind of why she's my least favorite of the three female protagonists, especially by III when it shows she's learned nothing. Not having her views towards the darkness challenged by everything about Riku nor her "I need to do this by myself coz I'm the big girl Master" and promptly getting her ass handed to her by Ansem and Vanitas. Eraqus at least has personal experience to justify his disdain for the darkness, because he has the literal scars from being hurt by it. III could've been an opportunity to show that they were wrong about darkness with regards to Terra and especially Riku, while still damning Xehanort's use of it. Oh well.

Josh: *"I'm Not Apologizing For Abby, Though"* IMO, U Were *Merciful* With That Monster

You know for the Snow entry, it probably also helps his case in liking him just a little bit that he's voiced by Troy Baker.

One honorable mention that comes to my mind is Flowey from Undertale. He's not likeable, but he's hard to hate when you look into his character. Each of the routes paints him in a different light. In the Neutral Route, he starts off as the antagonist and goes to extreme lengths to get what he wants all for the sake of his own entertainment, even tempting you to kill him towards the end. But then you get to the True Pacifist and Genocide Runs. Prior to True Pacifist, he lets you try to get a better ending...until he does a full heel-turn and manages to steal every Soul in the Underground and assumes his ultimate form. But as the fight progresses, we learn that he only wanted to see his old friend again (which opens up its own can of worms) and after coming to terms with his friend's passing, breaks the barrier using the power of every Soul in the Underground along with the Human Souls (it's mentioned that it would take the souls of every monster in the Underground to match the power of just one Human Soul, which is how the barrier is broken) and returns them all to their rightful owners. In the Genocide Run, we learn of Flowey's backstory from his perspective. He was accidentally brought back to life due to Alphys's experiment and was unhappy with his new life. He tried to commit suicide before getting cold feet and wanting to stay alive...and due to the Determination Alphys gave him and therefore his determination to not die, Flowey had the power to reset the timeline akin to our Save Files. As such, he played around with this power and went on his own Neutral, Genocide, and Pacifist Runs...because he just had to know what would happen if he did. He got bored of it and wanted to do something about it...and that's when we show up, and when he finds out that he can't reset the timeline anymore, so he decides to manipulate and frighten you for his own amusement. Regardless of whatever actions you take in Undertale, Flowey is less hateable when you really look into him. Everything he did and does in the game...is no different than what we do. He did everything he did...because he wanted to know what would happen.

6:36 Xenoblade shoutout made me smile

Do a video where a character is meant to be sympathetic/unsympathetic and succeeds all too well.

Snow is an underrated character... Finally someone says it!

This should be interesting, honestly for me it’s king Grangel from Fire Emblem awakening thanks to his supports

I think Tohru Adachi from P4 would've fit this list well. Most other murder mystery stories have the main villain be a psychotic lunatic or a misunderstood, philosophical who went down the wrong path. But Adachi isn't any of those, he's normal, and somewhat relatable. He's lonely, stuck in a job and town he hates, studied his whole life just to get stuck in the boonies for one mistake. It's no wonder he snapped and resorted to murder. He cares for no one cause he has no one, he hates the world cause in his eyes the world hates him, he is the antithesis to the message of persona which is to make friends and enjoy life. Most importantly he's a cautionary tale about what loneliness and isolation can cause, complete apathy and nihilism. It's like the old phrase "A child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel it's warmth."

7 Also, his ending has people actually survive. Side with the other bois, everyone dies and they start from scratch, side ya boi and there is hope for a better future, down a corridor of darkness

"Just shows that Golden Deer was the best route" "LIES AND SLANDER" Girl, you tell 'em!

Honestly I never liked Solas mainly due to his hypocrisy.

"Claude doesn't kill everyone to achieve it" Claude: *kills everyone to achieve it, and doesn't even achieve it on screen*

I always felt that Darkness was just a force, or a tool that could be used by anyone, and Xehanort just so happened to be one of the best users of it.

I feel like you’re fundamentally misunderstanding how Drakengard is supposed to make you feel. Yoko Taro designed the game’s world to be one full of broken, insane people. Caim isn’t a lunatic to criticize the player; he’s a lunatic because in order to gleefully massacre thousands for ANY reasons, he’d have to be. The child soldiers scene is supposed to drive home that Caim has zero mercy in his heart for the Empire.

I want to add a note about Solas. Romancing him and then encountering him in Trespasser makes that scene more emotional charged and gives him this really bittersweet moment of, you can tell he really wants the romance to go further but he feels duty bound to "fix" his mistake.

Spoilers for Fire Emblem Three Houses below Probably the one major thing about Edelgard that I’d like to point out here that wasn’t mentioned (and I think is either overshadowed or misinterpreted) is the bit about how Edelgard still chose to work with Those That Slither In The Dark should you choose to go against her via betraying her and siding with the Church of Seiros or you chose to teach another house in pre time skip. I started (and currently still) playing Verdant Wind, but in the final pre time skip chapter, which was defending Garreg Mach, I decided to have Byleth go against her, and she commented on how she wished Byleth sided with her in the beginning because of how unique their position is, lore wise, logic wise, and gameplay wise. Since Byleth had great potential and was once a fierce mercenary, they were someone who anyone would have liked to gain as a valuable ally. Edelgard basically confirms that Byleth is a very influential individual who can affect the outcome of one’s future. The only reason why she still chose to work with the people behind the whole reason her siblings are dead and why there was a huge disconnect between Adrestria and the Church of Seiros is because she felt she had no other choice. Those That Slither In The Dark are very corrupt, maniacal, sadistic people who have enough power to take down big name power houses and nobles alike and strip them away of their own influence over people in a whim. The idea of working with those same people who caused her family to suffer losses for the sake of “research” was possibly appalling to her, but because she didn’t see any other way of gaining the power and influence she needed to shape her ideal world where crests and social status bear no influence on one’s potential, she felt she had no other choice but to continue working with them. She technically had the choice to not work with them for much longer on her own, but then there was the idea that the figurative snake people she had to cooperate with could dispose of her and everything she wished to protect the moment she became a threat to them and showed signs of betrayal. It was either going against the Church of Seiros just because Rhea was sort of (and may be) hypocritical about her stance on who is deemed evil and how crests are valued so much when there’s people in the church itself like Seteth who actually have the same opinion on how crests shouldn’t define a person’s worth or it meant that everything she worked for to build a future where nobody’s value is determined by what they’re born as is destroyed and costing her own life as well as her remaining loved ones. The only one who has enough power to rival that of the snake people would be Byleth themselves, and Byleth siding with Edelgard actually allows Edelgard to cut ties with the snake people without risking all that she loved dear, since now she can focus on what really mattered to her, which was protecting those who needed it. In the post time skip of the Blue Lions Route, Azure Moon, Dimitri calls her out on this viewpoint and even outright says that the path she was trying to carve out wasn’t a one size fits all solution, as it had loads of bloodshed involved. However, I’d like to believe that had Edelgard been in a position to be able to cut ties without risk with those she hated outside of her own route, she would have. Continuing to worth for the villains without any other alternatives has also muddied or even erased her original reason for doing what she did back then, so much so that she also became corrupted in the process, which is what ultimately leads to her downfall in the pathways outside of Crimson Flower. That’s something I just brought up because I thought it was also important to consider, but great list anyways, Josh! Also, not to toot the bigger horns, but uh #FearTheDeer

As soon as I saw ol' egghead in the thumbnail, I clicked immediately on the video.

Even if he could speak, would the child soldiers listen, it sounds as if they are in a cult situation and you know how difficult it is to get cultists to listen to actual truth and reason

Eraqus Square .......HOW DID I NOT REALIZE THIS?!!!!!!

Uh... Josh? I think you forgot something covered in KH 2. Namely, that they bring up that it's not that Darkness is inherently evil, *it's that evil people gravitate towards it.* It's a question of a tool being used by evil people. It's a quick but risky path to power but it isn't inherently bad. Riku basically stands as a huge middle finger to the idea that it can only be used by villains and shows that the good guys can use it as well. This isn't to say you're wrong on Erquas, he certainly had reason to be paranoid (as, by the end of hte day, darkness is still dangerous), he just ends up showing that Light isn't perfect either. And really, at this point, everything just falls into place because timey wimey stuff. Also, on the Tubba Blubba thing, Bow DOES say 'yeah, I'm gonna get the boos to stop picking on him. It was fun while it lasted though'. Just to be fair.

Cool, you did a countdown that's the opposite of that previous list.

Fun fact, Hayden Christiansen, the dude behind Anakin Skywalker himself, actually said that that scream of "No" was a suit malfunction to dub over his Blood-curdling scream of pure agony

That #1 segment was really fascinating. Good work, Josh. Now, the only logical conclusion for these two videos is to make Top 10 Characters You Were Supposed to have Strong Feelings for (Like/Hate), but Left No Impression Whatsoever. It's a long title, but I'm sure you can trim it down.

Franziska von Karma from the Ace Attorney series. She’s every bit as arrogant and condescending as her father and just as apt to use dirty tactics to win such as withholding case breaking facts and submitting illegal evidence just to win when you first meet her. Worse still, instead of being able to command the course of the trial with just her words and the snap of her fingers like her father, she uses a whip when she doesn’t get her way, and she’ll use it on literally anyone. Even in the games that come after where you have to work with her on occasion, very little of this behavior changes. And why is she like this? Because of a one-sided surrogate sibling rivalry with Edgeworth. So why do I care so much about what she’s doing eight years later?

so i actually laughed out loud when your list of satan's different names broke directly into an H and R block commercial that starts out by saying the name of the company XD

Edelgard actually happens to be my favorite of the Lords, with Crimson Flower being my favorite of the routes.... ....I’m not apologizing.

Edelgard is a good choice for this list. But Arvis from Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War (FE4) is on a whole different level compared to her.

The story of Caim seems like a game of Dungeons and Dragons where the DM is intentionally shoe-horning the party's paladin into a situation to make the paladin lose his powers because the DM things it'll be a neat plot point.

With Edelgard, I liked her philosophy and not her methods. There is actually a video that compares her and Rhea and how she will always lose as she falls in the same traps as Rhea. Also I'm with Ari. Dimitri is best boi.

Someone actually did a fanart of Caim and Chara being the same character with Angelus playing the part of Sans before getting board and going to get something to eat.

Ah yes Kaim. Best character of the Drakengard franchise! It's funny that Drakengards 2 MC is pretty much the opposite, a hated character we are supposed to like, lol.

The Edelgard entry was perfect. Also something that people fail to realize is that, in her route, Edelgard isn't as soulless as she is in others. She accepts Claude & allows you to spare him, and she feels immeasurable pain at seeing what Dimitri has become b/c of her actions. In the end, she just wants a better world, and while her actions are still absolute, that's what war always is; full of blood, broken people, and tragedy.

I really like the villains that don't see themselves as the villain they actually see themselves as the Hero trying to save the world in their own way unaware that their way is a lot more horrifying than the actual hero. they essentially do every evil deed thinking it's for the greater good as in as soon as they're done and they have cleanse the world of whatever they think is evil there would be peace

Honestly though the section with Caim as someone who has played the game back in the day you realize that if you were to have the crazy elf woman with you she would have gotten a free meal of child flesh.... Yes she is particularly insane and will eat children.

This idea can get even more complicated when one has gotta deal with characters who have a lot of sympathetic elements, and then then writers forcibly write them to make them irredeemably evil (usually to make the heroes look good in comparison). Like, if someone decided to make Magneto a drunken abusive husband or a child molester, you find yourself having to figure out how much of these details can be ignored because they’re more incompetence on the writers’ part than actual character flaws.

I was hoping mister badd from neptunia victory to be here considering he, along with the other seven sages, kidnap orphaned kids, feeding them CPU crystals and turning them into small monsters, but ultimately caring for them out of a sense of guilt and responsibility. I guess you could at least consider him an honorable mention since in one chapter, he outright refuses to let his kids fight and ends up facing the cpu's alone. Hmmm. Maybe an honorable villains list is in order.

Putting Edelgard on this list is... questionable, to say the least. Mainly because the game seems to want you to come to your own conclusion about her motives (and those of Rhea as well).

How have I never noticed Eraqus' name trick?

A personal favorite choice of mine on this subject is ff9's Kuja. The guy is a egocentric killer and social manipulator who revels in every second of both. So to find out that he was used in the end kinda makes me feel for him.

Sure snow may come across as immature but it's not like he stabbed that woman in the gut, he jsut failed to hold onto her long enough to pull her up, meanwhile Hope is screaming and carrying on and acitng like Snow intentionally killed his mom. and as you said, Snow is the ONLY one actively trying to do something about the greater problem, while Lightning's solution was just aimless, wanton murder and ignore her own sister's words and we're supposed to like HER.

You know, I think Handsome Jack can still qualify for this list. Just not Borderlands 2 Handsome Jack. That’s right, I say The Pre-Sequel Jack deserves a mention here. We’re obviously supposed to hate him by the end as he’s crossed the Moral Event Horizon and become the Jack we love to hate in 2, but his earlier sociopathic actions, like killing Felicity, were necessitated by circumstance, and while he doesn’t show much in the way of empathy, welcome to Borderlands! Even the good guys are sociopaths most of the time! Jack is no worse than your average quest giver. Lilith, Roland, and Moxxie betrayed Jack without even trying to address their issues with his plan man-to-man, not to mention trying to kill his whole crew in the process, a crew including Claptrap, Roland and Lilith’s friend and ally from Borderlands 1. This moment made him merciless, but what really drove him insane was Lilith scarring him at the end out of spite. She could have killed him, but didn’t. She wanted to hurt him. In retrospect, the events of TPS make Jack’s torture of Lilith in 2 kind of cathartic. “Well, what about Angel?” I hear you ask. “Jack enslaved her as a kid to do his bidding! And this was before TPS, when he was supposedly a good guy!” HE HAD NO CHOICE. Angel’s siren powers were uncontrollable, and BD3 shows they resulted in her mother’s death. He clearly loves Angel, and did what he could to make her confinement comfortable, but it would never be enough. My point, TPS Jack *is* a hero by Borderlands standards throughout most of the story, and it was Lilith, Roland, and Moxxie who created the monstrous Handsome Jack, and not once do they admit his existence is their fault, especially Lilith, even when Athena basically points this out to her. Side note: Lilith probably deserves to be on the other list because of TPS and her treatment of Athena. Man, I hated her.

_Sees the Dangaronpa Style intro_ You had my interest, now you have my attention.. time for my to pull my stick for Oscar's lists and give my thought on your picks Joshy-boy. 10: Fantasy Darth Vader but done better? Nice. 9: What would you do survive a Robot bear army? 8: Everyone is the hero of their story, but not everyone see that story the same way. Very meh for me. 7: Paradise Lost got nothing on this guy. 6:The road to hell is path with good intentions and a new foundation and home does nothing if there is none left to use it. (Also Go Team Deer) 5: If this guy was in a comic book he'd be one of Batman's rouges. Also being a brother he get simpathy from me. 4: When Bioware gets to write well, weren't those the days. 3: The Numbers don't lie, still always awesome to see Mark Hamill 2: He really needed a hug... or to move.... I'd still give the big guy a hug. 1: Nothing like a reminder that WAR IS HELL! to spice up a top spot. See you next time Josh.

You ever notice all the Berserk references in Drakengard? That's because Caim was created when Yoko Taro asked, "What if we took Guts from Berserk, only without the restraint that keeps him from simply murdering everyone around him?"

Man, I can't tell you how long I've been waiting to hear someone else say something nice about Snow. Honestly, that willingness to help and never-say-die attitude caused me to gravitate toward him from the outset. And seeing him accept responsibility for his actions made it all the more sweet.

That last segment made me respect Yoko Taro even more than I already do.

Arthas, the Darth Vader that didn't need the entirety of The Clone Wars for fixing his arc

In regards to Edelgard I agree with her ideals but not the way she goes about achieving them. She instigated a continent wide war that resulted in the deaths of thousands innocent people. I felt a similar relationship with her as Kenobi did with Vader. The student went rogue due to their ideals being used to manipulate them by an evil force, and then turned on the teacher and her allies to fulfill their ambitions in a destructive way.

How to know you're supposed to hate a character but you end up liking em, you end up saying something to the affect of "what an absolute rat bastard, god I love em!"

When I learned that piece of trivia about Lucifer I found it interesting enough to bring up in conversation ... and be angrily accused of blasphemy. It appears only a single time in the King James version, because for whatever reason that instance of the word had been left untranslated, and in the context of the passage it appears in it wasn't even used as a name. Our popular notion of a creature called Lucifer has much of its roots in the epic poem "Paradise Lost," by John Milton.

One of the things that I hate about TLOU2 is the whole dog thing. I’m sorry but if those dogs are trying to kill you...ya Gotta defend yourself! It’s funny how even in movies we see people murdered horribly but when a dog dies then that’s just unforgivable even if the dog is trying to kill the hero. I really hate the cynical view that I hear from some people who laugh at the death of humans but then cry when a dog dies in a video game or movie. I already know that there are people who are gonna try to justify their hate for Ellie for killing dogs but it’s just so manipulative, like you said! Ellie kills dogs, Abby loves dogs, plays with dogs. Hell how many dogs have any of you killed in fallout or any game that has attack dogs coming to kill ya? Take it, John Marston! John Marston:I hate to judge but as it turns out, it’s you or me. Way I see it, might as well be you.

Velvet from Tales of Berseria's another contender, yeah, she goes on a rampage against Artorius for murdering her brother and getting turned into a demon, but you still feel bad for her, because she was a victim of circumstance too. Even then though, she still has some traits that are likable, such as cooking, and she develops a close bond with a Malak she "kidnaps" and gives him her dead brother's name. Like I said, she's basically Lightning done right.