I think some of the unplayed detachments in CSM are really close to being good. Fellhammer needs changes to its enhancements and a strat or two, but the core idea isn't bad. Dread Talons would feel a lot better if their strats had a base effect that gets enhanced vs battleshocked. It just feels weird for the Index to be a perfect example of having the army rule and detachment rules work off each other, but only get two detachments referencing dark pacts. My first thought would've been give every detachment a 5+ crit stratagem or enhancement that ties in with the detachment's themes. 5+ vs battleshock for dread talons, 5+ vs focus of hatred for Veterans of the Long War, etc. It's so close to being fantastic but there are so many little annoyances that bum me out.
No they're not. This is the problem with lumping everything together instead of taking the extra minute to include detachment breakdowns. Orks are a bit worse off, but Green Tide, and Da Big Hunt are still doing decent. CSM has 4 well performing Detachments with the most wins of any faction for the current season, but also has 4 detachments doing so terribly, they're down in the 30s and 20s, dragging the whole thing way down.
@@MrHoneumaDa Big Hunt? That detachment wasn't all that successful: a few players tried it and it turns out it's actually pretty fun on casual tables, but the strats and bonuses are so snagga-locked and vehicle-specific that their utility is really limited for the rest of the army. War Horde is probably our best detachment, but it's a worse version of the index one and it's quite frankly, boring to play. I just wish they could've at least made Speed Freeks playable, that would solve a lot of the balance problems we're facing. 😞 Orks are in the worst position they've been for a while. And because they've just been given a new Codex (one that had its teef ripped out immediately), it's unlikely that we'll see any changes until 11th edition.
Anyone else feel like GW is a little to heavy handed in their nerfs? It seems like they don't just nerf something but obliterate it with extreme prejudice. Like a Custodes Guard catching a Grot outside the Emperors throne room.
They're either gonna be broken and over-repped in every imperial army or there's gonna be another ally with "assassin" power level which will always be vaguely playable in any decent list.
I am hoping that Grey Knight Librarians will not be allowed to be taken as allies. Getting to just drop in a delete button is going to be super annoying if they can be taken.
@@MrHoneumaThey're not supposed fully be there. GW is probably going to stick with 1 grey knights unit as a possible ally, which pretty much fits their lore occupation as anti-daemon small squads called by the ordo malleus, while they are more of a specialized, secretive chapter at heart, hence why they have a full codex.
The last mention of DeathWatch as they are now a squatted list and just count as generic "black clad" space marines. No longer the Death watch they are the Dead watch.
I continue to wait and see how they turn out in Imp Agents, and how the datasheets themselves change to make them worth bringing as allies. They have to have a niche or no one would bring them right?
@@thebreadbaron2027 You can still run Quins. They are in the Aeldari codex and one of their characters can make Quins battleine. Deathwatch are being fucked. Quins got no detachment in the index. The equivalent would be if Deathwatch got pulled into the base SM codex or index.
@@DeusBlackheart you can "run" quins as much as you can take the models, but they lost all their rules. You'll probably be able to still run DW, they will likely have a battleline or way to become battleline in the codex so i think they are comparable.
@@thebreadbaron2027 If you run a Troupe Master as your warlord, you can run Troupe units as Battleline. You still get the same strats as the standard Aeldari. The difference is that Deathwatch were separate since the start of the edition, and THEN they got folded. The issue being that they got crap rules for most of their kill teams, their entire index was overcosted, and it was already expensive (money) to buy teams that were mixed combined with the expense (points). Tell me how you would use +1 to hit vs units under half-strength when they already have Heavy on their basic weapons? That's the rule for Fortis Kill Teams.
I think the biggest problem with Orks is that they have very few effective anti-armour options, and those that they do have are horribly vulnerable. Meganobz can get up to S13 but they have few attacks per model and only do 2 damage, and with the points nerf you need 200 points worth just to have a fair chance of killing something like a Land Raider, and that's not counting the Warboss to make them competent and some sort of transport option to get them there. Not to mention that's only in the Waaagh! turn so half the time you telegraph your attack a mile off because you end up declaring it just before your opponent moves. The walkers are seeing little play because in a game with things like Vindicators, Gladiator Lancers and Heavy Destroyers they die very, very fast- in fact the last time I played against them I one-shotted a Gorkanaut with a Soulforged Warpact Vindicator. (Actually with the Sustained and Lethal hits and full re-rolls it was many, many shots, but you get the idea.) The Ork shooting units suffer from the Codex's complete lack of re-rolls. The only source of them Orks had, Badrukk, got kicked to Legends so now whatever kunning plan you might have you still end up praying for a load of 5s. Rolling 30 dice to hit and hitting ten times used to be funny, but these days so many units you need to get rid of are also rocking high armour saves, multiple Wounds and FNP so you often end up doing nothing at all.
Yep. I played against Knights a few months back and the only thing that did much of anything were my meganobz, and that took three turns to just kill one knight because I kept whiffing a lot of wound rolls and he kept making saves on everything else. Almost all of my rokkits and mek guns kept missing or getting saved against and all the walkers I brought got annihilated before they could get close to anything.
The recent talk in the gsc community is that the brood brother auxiliary could be the best detachment we have access to, however, i will call it for what it is. People are the highest on that detachment as half the list isnt gsc models meaning it has a better chance, which personally i think is absurd. The best and favorite detachment an army has shouldnt be that way becauze you arent playing your own models. The faction needs heavy point adjustments as well as rewrites to datasheets and codex rules, which wont be happening soon enough for players to move away from them
GW: “we know that you like Space Marines, so we’re giving you a codex first!” Fans: “yay!” GW: “It’s also the weakest one. Unless you pay for Marines+ (non compliant), you’re never gonna be meta again!” Fans: “Oh…”
That will literally always be the case unless they make divergent chapters different factions like the god legions. Though it's also worth noting that, despite the complaining, core codex marines are still excellent. Frankly, if the codex was anything but great you wouldn't see 100% of the WTC teams running marines.
@@FionaAnstian Core codex marines are still excellent in what way? WTC teams run marines that are from codex supplements and team games themselves allow you to pick favorable matchups and avoid the weaknesses of your faction. Stat wise running a Codex chapter has a 41% chance of winning 4% below the "Balanced" threshold so it is in need of a buff. Many Divergent chapters have superior units to their counterparts e.g. Inner Circle and Bladeguard Vets while also having big updates to their rules via supplement releases meanwhile the Stormlance detachment is still an unplayable mess for core marines. There are ways they could go about improving the situation by giving warlord traits to named characters, point discounts on units based on chapter or just updating the rules to the actual detachments themselves.
@jacktbc3947 nobody said there weren't problems with it. But if core codex marines was bad then divergent chapters would be bad. Low competitive win rate doesn't really mean much of anything for core codex marines, between it being a common new player army and many competitive players using divergent chapters even if most of their army and the detachment is still from the core codex.
I extremely dislike how people sometimes talk about overnerfed GSC codex, saying that detachments are not "bad" but "people experiment with them", that "now playstyle is less obvious" rather then "damage besides neophytes(kinda) is heavily reduced". Just sounds like "army is not weak(ignore winrate) just get good lol"
the problem is that they weren't made cheap enough to counterbalance the nerfs, and the strats and/or enhancements in the detachments are too heavy on the Ts and Cs.
They literally nerfed almost every single weapon over 6 str to the ground, even though they were just equivalents of the Imperial armory, but with worse range on higher cost models. And then, surprising nobody who's been paying attention, they didn't adjust points to reflect how toothless they made them. So now you have the single most fragile faction in the game, freshly stripped of any teeth, and yet somehow still priced 50-100% higher than any other faction's equivalent units. "Very difficult to play" indeed. More like "how good are you at playing the game with two arms tied behind your back and bleeding from a gut wound"?
I do wish they would make the codex sm more unique by giving those chapters their own unique units instead of just a small handful of characters or at least make the detachments chapter specific
TBF, the problem isn't exactly THAT, because that still limits you to a canonical chapter rather than making a homebrew. I feel like the solution is to give Codex Divergent builds more restrictions on unit options maybe?
@@johnj.spurgin7037 Limit the Divergent Chapters to only the basic Gladius detachment, AND, limit some of the most 'exotic' codex units that don't really fit with some of their themes as well ;-) ie: BT's cannot take Devastators, Dev Cents, Whirlwinds, Librarians... BA's cannot take Centurions period 'cause they're damn slow... etc, etc...
orks got a dirty treatment. Hopefully we get a point reduction on meganobz and normal nobz. And hopefully even on the deff dread. 130 points is to high for it. Make it 105 Same for kommandos. Compare them with the new votann they are 80 points . Ork kommandos 130 should be 100 - 110
Or we can talk about Tankbustas, one of the faction-wide worst non-flyer/fortification units in the whole game right now. And as I mentioned elsewhere, all the buggies that got shafted by their damage being so low per point also deserve some love. Honestly, the Orks Codex definitely got the dirty treatment - they heavily pointed players to two strong playstyles, then took the strength of those playstyles away without compensating for what was lost. So we're looking to be a toothless faction until 11th at this rate.
@@Howardax 10th edition has made my Blood Axes completely unplayable... Kommandos & Tankbustas are beyond useless. AND... I lost my fun 'sneaky gits' specialist mob upgrade to boot!! Sure, it was a bad upgrade and not "tournament worthy" in any way, but it was fun as hell and so thematic for us 'Tacttikul Finkerz' ;-)
@@Howardax I'd say that's a bit doomerish, orks could very easily be saved by a good MFM, revert the points nerf on meganobz and reduce the points on a lot of the dread mob and speed freeks units and those detachments will see play. It's not the best fix but it could easily get orks out of the slump they're in, being more hordey across the detachments wouldn't be a bad thing since orks are a horde faction.
@@Howardax Agree with the Tankbustas being Terrible. Was going to get some as I play with VERY vehicle heavy players. Should remodel, and give them an anti vehicle ranged weapon as well as their melee weapon. Even make it hazardous for flavour, or if worried about balance. Currently orks with sticks on Squigs do a better job then them 😂
@@captainweekend5276 eh, what reason do I have not to be pessimistic? People worried about the current state and future of their faction shouldn't just be dismissed as "doomerish", that's just reductive and unhelpful. The points with the buggies you mentioned aren't the problem (Deff Dread could possibly be fixed by a big points reduction, but even then their fragility is hardly going to make them massively popular). It's their lackluster rules and damage profiles, which GW has been very reluctant to change. The Megatrakk Scrapjet wounding Rhino's on a 5+ even with it's strongest anti-tank weaponry is criminal (also RIP wing missile, apparently they "kinda forgot"), and Dear Lord, the new profile of the Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy - look at the datasheet priced at *100 points* - is ridiculously bad. Not to mention all of the buggies (IIRC, correct me if I'm wrong) are T7 and die to a strong breeze as well. And that's not even getting started on the more egregious cases like Tankbustas and Stompas. Nah man, Orks are not in a great place right now, no copium for me thanks.
Even if they just hit the points like a conservative 5 points per 5 or something on top of the rules nerf sure fine whatever but they nerfed them like 30 points lmao. Absolutely agree though they need to focus on adjusting problematic datasheet rule and detachment rule combos instead of nerfing a unit's points that has a broken interaction with a detachment rules. The Raiders strat interaction was the problem without that they were certainly a strong unit but not nearly as broken without the instant 1cp uppy downy. @@WontonDestruction
My three armies are literally represented in this picture. Salamanders, Chaos knights and Deathguard lol. Haven’t gone better than 1-2 in any of the monthly tournaments I go to. Good times!!
The current Guard also suffer from losing their "feel". It used to be the endless ranks of guardsmen and volume of fire was their thing. Now it's tanks tanks tanks and the actual GUARD part of the Guard doesn't even matter anymore.
GW did Codex complaint marines dirty. Not only did they not buff them with 44% win rates prior to last balance dataslate, they nerfed them. the 41% is the chefs kiss!
Absolutely. They nerfed what didn't need nerfing but they've done it literally every balance pass. Same with guard to some extent. They've only just partially repaired the damage they did to imperial knights.
If they would just limit the non-compliant Chapters to only being able to use the basic Gladius out of the main codex, then GW could finally give some much needed big buffs to the Codex Marines detachments...
Kind of weird being a brand new player and seeing my CSM here but then like a few months ago seeing you highlight them winning multiple tournaments. I feel like army strength really fluctuates and the meta changes so much that it doesn't even matter
Nothing has bummed me more in 10th thus far than getting the Ork codex on release on its great praise and buying enough models to run Green Tide just for it to get nerfed. RIP. Back to serving the Emperor on the back of a Royal Dorn.
To be fair, GW should NEVER have made Deathwatch 'just another Chapter'... Their whole 'thing' has always been that they're small teams of highly specialized operatives who are meant to either supplement a larger force, or else they just go about doing their own thing. A typical Watch Fortress has always been portrayed as being maybe at most 200-300 Marines, with their forces broken up across the entire surrounding sectors as required by the various Xenos threats Would be nice to see come 11th edition, GW puts out 2-3 new up-scaled kits for them that can bulk out their roster a little bit, and bring back a lot of the personality & customization to their units.
Maybe so. But the fact is, they did. And once you've got your army that you've perhaps been hoping for for a while, and built up over years, to have the rug pulled out from under you sucks balls.
the win rate is probably because not everyone is minmaxing them. The are strong tho if played right. I loved the mental gymnastic of playong against them
22:55 for each detachement if you play with the right army (ex: ultramarin in gladius) you get a little bonus buff ! GW have done bigger changement with Admec why not with SM !!!
The fact that Aeldari are now pretty much dependent on Drukhari units to squeeze out a 47% winrate is a real issue. Seeing as Drukhari themselves are coasting right now on a 55%+ winrate, they are looking to get a few things nerfed soon, making the already subpar best Aeldari builds even worse.
@@Unknown-qj9sm If you make an aggregate of all recorded tournament results since Pariah Nexus, Aeldari are at 45.5% I think they might finally see their first net buff for the entire edition soon.
The funny thing is Drukhari have barely changed (the archon getting the new version of the vect rule is pretty nice though) but still went from 50 to 55% win rate. its other stuff changing around them and getting weaker thats the cause more then anything. I do worry about getting into a cycle of nerf the current top dog, its no longer keeping the second place army in check, that army now rises.
@@Brian0033 For Drukhari it's two things I think are the cause for their sudden rise. Ofc other around them getting tweaked could help, but mainly I think it's 2 things, one has already been sort of fixed? First is the new Strat cost aura thing. That is actually a substantial ability, cause you can have 3 12" bubbles on the board, which are on a 2+ invuln (till failed). This covers a lot of ground with a very powerful debuff. Secondly, and the one I think already got fixed (sorta kinda) is the pivot rule massively helping large overhanging vehicles on round flight stands. EDIT: But yeah, GW will probably just see 55.5% winrate, hear that people are annoyed at scourges and mandrakes, nerf those and hurt Aeldari in the process xD
They systematically nerfed everything about Aeldari. Army rule, enhancements, wraith units, indirect fire, small fast skirmish units, points on basically everything that’s decent. They’ve done all this while other armies are getting their codex updates, Dataslate buffs, etc. They really nerfed the fun out of the army.
It's odd to say, but Chaos Knights to me at least feel to squishy. I've played them multiple times with my World Eaters and almost tabled them. It's a hard balance to find, but I feel like they just need a little bit of a durability buff, as fun as it is, a squad of Berzerkers should not he taking down a Knight Rampager
No Ynnari are the army that have a 47% winrate likely because of Drukhari being the strongest army in the game right now. If you want a pure Aeldari army I don’t see it as anywhere near as viable. But isn’t that such a sharp contrast, being able to take anything you want from the best army in the game and the best you can scrounge up is a 47%?
I am definitely not part of a competitive play group but I have had a lot of success with my GSC. I do play at 1500 points which may make a difference but ive found 2 lots of 20 neophytes led by a primus with lethal hits enhancment and the new brain guy leading the other 20 has been absolutely brutal. Whatever I point them at just disappears leaving the rest of my army to kinda just clean up.
Just to note, the guy who won Tacoma resigned his first place as he basically cheated and got caught (given yellow card) in one of the later rounds. Sisters came 2nd so they are bow the winner
Still funny how in an upclose meta of 12"s the T'au are doing decently well. On related note does anyone have an Incursion (1000 point) list for Kroot? I need an Incursion Kroot list for a thing, no real limitation as it's a simulated list for a game I DM.
Ive been an eldar player since 8th and tried not to abuse people with how strong eldar were now Im taking a break from 40k because both my armies feel almost unplayable
Yeah I’ve stopped playing them as well. I’m sure you can still win with them and I like Ynnari, but my quins are awful, and they nerfed the army in a way that makes it pretty unfun to play. I’m fine with fate dice since I’ve never liked them, but the one that gets me is the phantasm nerf feels really really unfun, especially for an army that’s supposed to be fast, why are they basically just as fast as say kroot or marines now give or take an extra inch. The phantasm nerf was a hit that needed to happen but I think it happened in the worst way. Making it non-wraith infantry exclusive, making it d3+3, or making it 2cp I think these are all much more fun versions of the strat that actually tone down the power level but keep it fun.
It feels bad to look at rules accessible to Salamanders right now, even if it’s clearly not as objectively bad as what Chaos, Orks, and GSC has received in terms of nerfs. Stratagem point decreases got cut because of Divergent chapters using Gladius, Sisters got the Firestorm detachment rule exactly, and we can’t get compensation buffs because the Divergent chapters would probably make better use of them. I just want to see that one issue fixed, then make more meaningful changes to the three aforementioned factions, they deserve some buffs.
Im realy happy as a DA player, because even if our detachments are not too competitive, at least we have good and fun units to play with. Tha latest update didn't fix a lot, but it was a good step in the right direction.
If it weren't for Court wraith spam and hypercrypt c'tan holding up the necrons, I don't imagine they'd be doing well. Overcosted units and gawd awful internal balance... a bunch of units you'd just never take...
As an Eldar main I'm mostly turned off by how boring our main mechanics are now. A handful of Fate dice feels very bland. Comparatively, miracle dice play so much more fluently. Also barely any fun combo potential in our index. Add the fact we now need Drukkhari to carry our weight is looking pretty grim.
Lots of Ork "buffs" don't mix well together. Eg- Big Mek should have reroll 1s in shooting AND combat, gives a reason to take him with Warboss and boyz.
They have been on my shelf for a solid 6 months, what I would give for a fresh codex. Their datasheets are just not good enough on 90% of their units, and the army gets carried by a few workable builds.
@@LordCrate-du8zmI also want the divergent chapters to stop taking our Codex-compliant toys and making us pay for it in nerfs. I hate seeing talk of Space Marines doing well when it's really just lumping in the BA, SW, BT, and DA.
I just wish codex compliant characters provided army-wide buffs to justify playing them. Salamanders and Raven Guard come close to this. Imperial fists deserve better.
Points are whats hurting csm. They cant let them be too low or renegades gets dangerous. But higher points hurts every other detachment. They need to balance renegades then fix points. It was a overreaction of nerfs without data before the balance.
To fix orks I want to bring back solo Mozrog, 30pt meganobz, and warboss being able to disembark on waagh turn. What Id like to see is Snikrot getting the warboss keyword or dropping to 70pts. Auto explode stratagem for vehicles. Ard as nails being able to work on monsters.
I know its niche but could you include kroot detachment seperate from tau? They feel like a different army and its hard to find information on how they are doing when they are lumped with tau stats.
My three armies are here😅. Ultramarines, Imperial Guard and the Cult. Ok the Guard is doing fine but they have no codex. A blessing or a handicap. Time will tell.
Well we all know DW are getting guilotined so at least auspex can look forward to not having remind us they were the worst army all the time lol RIP my 40k XCOM you were the only army keeping me interested in this declining game
Let's give GW a bit of credit on the Dark Angels. The most obvious thing would have been to nerf Azrael and give Knights and Companions a massive points drop. Instead, they did it right, buffing the swords. Unforgiven task force is worth it for the relics, perhaps, but still seems to underwhelm and the Kinghts' maces seem to have lost the internal balance war so there is still work to do. More long term, they need to figure out assault termis and maybe restore mixed equipment to Deathwing termis (I'd like them to get combat squads back) and then figure out how to do Ravenwing right.
Unforgiven is a straight up downgrade to Gladius in every area? Maces and Swords on DWK are the most balanced they have been so far. Great they didnt just drop points but it's still a mess of a codex.
Im spanish and i have a question. This guy speaks in a very stable(?) / monotonous way. Is this the accent of somewhere or it is just he? No ups and downs, always the same tone of voice. Awesome content, seriously, but the voice is... Borring? I dont want to offend, is a real question. Thanks.
If you think dark angels players are running 3x5 dwk and think because they are crazy good after the buffs you dont seem to play the game. They are merely okay. The buff would have been fine without points hike but that instantly balanced out all of the changes. Keep in mind that the limit of 5 means players are running 1.5 squad that they did also before the nerf. Basically we are between the index and codex strenght.
I hate that they center more on tournament players and not the core casual players. If it were only tournament players playing, GW would be out of business. 9th edition had so much more flavor and fun in the games we played at our group. It may have been heavy on the datacards but I know our group of 13 had so much more fun. Not to mention, our games were a lot closer in points , with most games being nail biters to the end.
I don't know if it's good to see Admech in 49%, 'cause GW may think "Oh, they're in 49% now, so we don't need to change its' detechment rules, nice"🤦🏻♂️
Wolves will be bad eventually and probably for a long time. They will also be mediocre and probably for a long time. They will be good, for at most half of one season or half an edition at best. That is how every faction works. Also a sub-set of marines is always a weird spot. Have fun
I feel like Spacemarines simply in some way need more specific ways at how you look at them in these lists.. they are just played SO much it seems, that these results are completely scewed. I feel like when I play Space marines and when I play against good players they are one of THE strongest armies, top 5 at least, in the game. even a simple good list without ANY chapter flavor can pretty easily win most games. My Ironstorm list STILL completely wipes the floor with most armies, especially below 50% armies. it is ever chaning, but still SO strong. I literrally only play knights right now BECAUSE they are weaker than just simply spamming space marine tanks, because they are so good it is no fun to always win on turn 3 the latest.
I strongly believe space marines are down due to there being too many units. This means the average collector is less likely to own enough models to put together a true tournament list. Otherwise plenty of strong damage dealers, good trash units and good strats
Space marines are the new player faction. It’s normal for their numbers to be artificially depressed. This happens even harder when they’re the most played, so there are multiple times when a win is cancelled out by a loss in the mirror match.
In tournaments vanilla SM are not being played so much lately, and even played by good tournament players the win rating is still bad. No reason to play vanilla if marine + are better
Let's take out this from the competitive prospective, and realized that we are in a meta were anyone can play their army without much problems, it's kinda impressive
DA now have four units that are decent, Azrael, DWK, ICC and Darkshroud. Their detachments are awful and have 30ish % win rates last I saw. DWK are tanky but really expensive and slow unit of 5 with no shooting. Gladius having movement bonuses as well as good strats and enhancements generally is why it's doing well. If they were locked to the codex detachments they'd be awful. Internal balance is awful and they're basically slightly better Codex marines, Wolves and Sons of Sanguinius are as competative or better still, but at least there's marine variety on the tables. Even then they're still below 50% win rate and Gladius DA is currently at the 'balanced' area that GW considers.
21 games I've played with space wolves in 10th edition, I won one game and drew one game, the rest I lost and some quite spectacularly.....please don't tell me Space wolves are a top faction because by Russ's beard I know otherwise. 😉
If you've played previous editions then you would know that balance historically has been far worse. Relatively speaking, balance is among the best in the game's history.
@@dras-pv8qv No offense but previous edition balance has no relevance to this edition. "Back in my day" mentality doesn't change the issue that vanilla space marines are terrible right now.
I crush n00bs with my Black Templars!! I'm the terror of the n00bs at my FLGS! I'm doing even better after having memorized your previous video of how to cheat at Warhammer 40k! Its had the greatest impact on my 40k "skill" even more than any army or faction I could play! I'll take Deathwatch, run them using your cheat tips and strategies, and I will crush my local Blood Angel nerd player like a pop can! .... On a serious note, I sorta stink at 40k I'm mediocre at best, always have been, I play against mainly Ultramarines, World Eaters, Custodes, and Tyranids (I play among a close circle of friends in our posh basements lol). I do okay, but I have a lot of fun ;)
