I know right I love to take my time in a game. Not have a timer thrown in my face in the middle something. Like what if I need to get up for few minutes and make a sandwich or something and their is no pause button or my pause button doesn't work.
For me, It depends on what kind it is. SMG's time limits, QTE, and forever timers( ex. Majora's Mask, Sonic, Mario) Don't scare me. But surprise time limits, invisible time limits, etc. Is another story.
"You learn by doing, not by hearing a lecture on it." Gonna disagree with ya there. Believe it or not, us auditory learners *do* exist. I understand how being told what to do may not be as helpful if you're more of a visual or kinesthetic learner, but that doesn't mean no one benefits from it.
***** Yeah, I have to agree. Even though I can nowadays quickly pick up on what to do and how to do it, if they didn't have the tutorials for me to read out as a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten so far into gaming that I have and rage quit.
supersonic5432 Which is why he said put it in a separate mode so that those that would rather learn by doing instead of being told what to do and how to do it can have that pleasure.
See, the issue with that is that this solution doesn't exactly work across all genres. Like, the Mario and Luigi series, for example, or for any RPG that takes away from the conventional typical formula that's been built for so long. I believe that the fact that games work with optional tutorials within the story, giving you the option to view them if necessary without having to go so far out of your way to do so.
What, you want to play as a normal person? You aren't the chosen one just because you're the player, you're playing as that character because they're the chosen one. Why would you want to play as anyone else?
breseman I find it to play out extremely boringly. The only way to make it have a chance at working is with twists, which you could see coming from a mile away. It's a lot more immersive if we don't go through that bs and we either go through the undertakings that is the journey of that character up to the point where he is actually qualified, because let's face it, in most RPGs you're weak as shit starting out and you're going to die if you go anywhere besides from point A to point B. It makes no logical sense that someone like that is "chosen" to undertake the Big Bad especially if there's more badass characters at the ready. It's frustrating and snooze-inducing at the same time, so I guess _that's_ an accomplishment. Okay, I suppose games with less plots can be given a little slack, and I think the video's just about gameplay cliches...
D MAS a good explanation, but I'm with Logan on this one, the less the realism the more enjoyable. And the feeling that you're the only one who can save the world is a good feeling, after all there is a reason why it's called player 1.
+RoflWaffles12 Actually I think that you COULD make it fun if you start out as that person and depending on what you are doing the NPCs or the game system slowly makes you become a hero. You can for example give the player a title for clearing out a really dificult dungeon that renders him a hero. You could successsful PvP players have some mentioning by the NPCs. I think things like that can work really well in an MMO.
I have definitely thought about Time Limits before with regards to a topic like this but I found I enjoyed them when they were set up properly. Majora's Mask and Pikmin like you said but also escaping an exploding planet in Metroid or just any sort of checkpoint-style race in a game. I think as long as you know it's coming and that it makes sense within what the game expects you to do, I'm reasonably okay with them. Great list though man!
rabbidluigi It's also different when they are times you set up or test you see how fast you can go such as time attack levels like those found in the classic crash bandicoot games as well as racing game time trials. but other than that time limits do suck
I'm a pretty big sonic fan and I agree to this! I've seen someone get all over my case just for liking Sonic with GREEN EYES. ARE YOU KIDDING?! What, are Classic Sonic's Black eyes helping the gameplay at all?! NO!! (Now that my daily rant is over lol)
10) I actually like these, if done right they're phenomenal 9) This one sucks, progression is the spice of life 8) Hit the nail on the head 7) Never sacrifice fun for realism 6) Kat in Halo Reach driving...or an of Noble Team. Or in Skyrim, I just stopped taking npc's with my after Lydia decided to fight a dragon, a group of bandits, two giants and a herd of mammoths at the same time. 5) I love the Rainbow Road remakes :( but point made. The great maze made my head spin 4) This seems to happen more and more 3) Just cause I played the game recently, but the one mission in the mass effect 3 citadel dlc where you have limited ammo on your only gun and no armour 2) Roaming pokemon. I just don't bother anymore 1) I have so much fury
***** Depends on the situation. Some scenarios require a time limit or they lose the atmosphere. For example, if you raid a nuclear facility and it's having a meltdown, it would kill the game if you could wander around finding collectibles for an hour. The threat of being obliterated in 30 seconds can get your heart pounding and add to the fun. On the other hand there is nothing more frustrating than restarting an encounter in a game because the time ran out as you had your foot 2 inches from the checkpoint.
+Loudwire Mr. Minion did say that he personally hated time limits without context. "...instead of PULLING IT OUT OF YOUR ASS!" Quarter Guy said it better, as he listed it as Arbitrary Time Limits in his most recent countdown.
06:26 You do realise Animal Crossing is a game 100% based on relationships with NPC's right? I would hardly call them useless - And before you bring up Mr Ressetit I have 4 words for you - SAVE YOUR FUCKING GAME.
Jawjawjaw3 Just saying - People complain about him a lot as if it takes a genius to know save before turning off your game. If you cant figure that out then frankly you deserve whatever he throws at you.
29gish R...really? I personally never forget to save, but there're times I have to deal with his shit because my dumbass friend turns off his 3DS when he's in my town and stuff. And then I need to have his huge dumb lecture.
i find timed levels/run and dont die levels fustrating, but if they have checkpoints thats fine by me. I think challenges that are ACTUALLY labeled a time challange should actually be used ex: prankster comets
Then comes Monster Hunter, every quest has a time limit but it's forgiving, they know it might take a while so they give you nearly an hour almost every time
I'm making a game (eventually) and there's going to be an enemy, and the dialogue will be this: Character: Oh hey, it's you Enemy: No, I'm different C: Oh, so you're just stronger now? E:No, you didn't let me do my thing! *flash* E: See? I'm purple now! C: *sighs and cringes for 2 minutes* C: *screams*
Me: Oh no, you have more HP and attack power. And your element's different, which means I need my thunder-resistant armour instead. Enemy: What? You're ALREADY resistant to thunder! Me: Yeah, but I'm on Hard mode, and I need all the help I can-HEY! You broke the fourth wall! You're not allowed to that! Enemy: I-urgh...you did that first. Me: Shut up! Enemy: B-But-! _attacks during enemy's bafflement, giving First Strike_
@SEAN DAVIDSON ok... the thing above me is old me. The characters have been revamped... simon is now maxwell and only has portals, for the gauntlet is gone. Lazarus is gone and his gimmick is given to maxwell. And Cody is named Cory instead.
10: This sort of varies from game to game. Some stealth missions can be really engaging, while others can be quite boring. The penalty for being caught can also vary, whether it's a minor inconvenience, or having to do the entire section all over again. 9: While I agree with this, I also feel like this only really applies online, where you compete with other players. Having weapons with varying levels of strength can be seen as a subtle form of player controlled difficulty. Obviously, having a better weapon will make things easier, but there are some people who like to challenge themselves by using the weakest weapon in the game. I'm looking at you, Kingdom Hearts tryhards. 8: This one is simply a matter of opinion, unless we're talking about the NPCs that actually do hinder the experience. Some games are kind enough to let you have a moment of catharsis by letting you kill/best the crap out of these characters. 7: I can see how air meters can work from a design perspective, but very rarely is it done well. I'm reminded of another list on this subject, done by two Canadians and a Marine, that says that air meters can either give you plenty of time to do your thing, or hardly any. 6: If it's on your team, it's annoying as hell. If it's against you, it can be one of the funniest things in the entire game, making your entire week if it's prevalent enough. I just love finding ways to abuse enemy AI to make them do the dumbest shit imaginable. This is especially true if the game has a dark atmosphere. "Death and chaos everywhere, BUT HEY LOOK AT THIS IDIOT!" 5: This is bad when it's a single, or even a handful of enemies. That's just lazy design. It's worse when a segment, or even a full level is repeated for no other reason than to fill in space. What's unforgivable is COPYING AN ENTIRE GAME WITH NO SIGNIFICANT CHANGES. That should especially be emphasized, given how over saturated the market has gotten with copy paste sequels and blatant ripoffs. 4: When you think about it, tutorials are really only bad if the game is something that's already familiar to the player. If the gameplay is unlike any other game, a tutorial is kind of necessary. Otherwise, the game should subtly teach the mechanics to the player through gameplay. It can be surprisingly difficult to learn how a game plays through text alone anyway. 3: It can be baffling how many things can cause a difficulty spike, whether it be a sudden change in gameplay, a design or programming error, or that one level/boss (thank you TV Tropes). 2: Yeah... I got nothing. 1: Time limits are another one of those things that varies in different games. Most games that I've played do a good job of this, adding a sense of urgency while keeping things fair. However, I know that every rule has an exception. There are a handful of games where the time limit is a major factor in whether or not you go out of the way to grab some collectable or notably useful item, and whether or not the trip is worth it. The absolute worst is when you need to perform inhuman tasks with pixel perfect precision just to scrape by.
12:25 Heh... I'm a Sonic fan. Even I chuckled at that. Fan character recolors suck. This is the LAST time I tolerate another red Sonic or green Amy Rose. Some stupid little nine year old will DIE tonight.
Me when they get a hated character colors right:YOU DARE BRING LIGHT TO MY LARE YOU MUST DIE Me when they the colors of somebody right:Yea don't make any unwanted characters or else you will D.I.E
Vaporeon schorzman Time limits are good.......when the game is built around them (Majoras Mask and Super Time Force come to my mind at first) BUT when you are the type of character who prefers taking his time or fight in a more defensive style like me then a sudden time limit can crush you.
WreckitFinntheSonic the worst difficulty spike ive seen so far is the yellow devil/boss rush megaman powered up the yellow devil takes over 2/3 of the screen and no health between bosses
Garrett Bates OHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOO. Pick out almost ANY Kirby game that plays normally, my friend. THE TRUE. FUCKING. ARENA. Pain-in-the-ass double-power bosses, back-to-back, with TINY fucking health ups.
time limits are a test of how efficient the player is. the more efficient, as in more skilled, you are, the faster you work. if you're too slow, you're not efficient enough and you need to get better. yeah, if you're bad and hate being challenged i can see how you would be bothered by them.
Sally Butter Pants and what if you just want to have fun and not rush through the game? sure it a challenge but seeing how much time they took to create the game they must want players to enjoy it.
Sally Butter Pants That's what Speed Running and Special Stages are for. There's no reason to randomly toss in a timer other then to add difficulty that wasn't needed. "Oh man, what an amazing world. I wanna take it in, explore, and -- Oh, Game Over?"
I disagree. For me personally when time limits are involved (unless they are VERY generous) it makes me panic and not do as well when normally I'd be pretty good at a game. It makes my adrenaline rush and not in the good way. I shake and will have to take breaks. I just don't see them as a good test of skill. Why not a harder level that can test our skills we've developed instead of an arbitrary time limit?
I think the main offender of breathing limits is Sonic. I mean, a 2D platformer game about going fast not only slows you down, but gives you an AIR LIMIT!? Well now we all know Mario will win the Olympics! At least he can breathe underwater in SOME situations!
You made quite a lot of interesting points I've never even given much thought to before. Kudos for addressing things that make people actually think whether or not something should be in a game regardless of how widely used it is. If developers followed guidelines like these, the common game flaws and issues we all know and hate would hopefully be skipped completely over. For the record, time limits are my most hated game cliche of all time as well.
The Progenitor When 1 Key = 3 Ref, it was because you could use 3 Ref to GUARANTEE a hat, but it was a random one, or use a key to have a chance at a SPECIFIC hat, so it was a nice trade-off. Then Stranges, where you could use 3 Ref for a hat, or a key for a strange, so still fair trade. Then hats became more common place and people stopped using ref to make hats, so more and more got in circulation. Now you tell me what happens when there is high supply but little demand for an object.
i agree with you on number 1 its proper frustrating especially when its one of the ones where you have to find a persific destination and its like the other side of the map but the timed things do work really well in races in games and some mini-games like in one of the mario party ds mini-games you have to doge a football coming right towards your character
Drew Wright ... that seems like it's just a skin over the normal gameplay, the only thing I could think of would be making a song that has noticeable pauses in it.
I agree with the tutorial thing, hell my parents need game tutorials more than me, so it’s hella annoying when some random npc waddles up to say “let me teach you about this thing you already know!”
to be honest, I have mixed feelings for time limits. if it's like doom rune challenges or similar things where it's there for the player to choose if they want to take on the extra challenge that not only presents a reward that can help them in gameplay, but also helps teach the player new ways to play and things to look out for in future situations that is similar to the challenge they completed so they can have an upper hand in the situation. or in games like assassins creed(which it would make sense to include timed missions) where the lack of time encourages those player to take advantage of their surroundings and react quickly in order to complete the mission. But in call of duty where they have such linear and one way missions/maps, I cannot stand it.
And lets not forget about THOSE levels! You know, those levels where the level FORCES YOU TO MOVE! It's just SO FREAKING ANNOYING! I mean they aren't that bad, but when you get one of those moving screen levels AND they give you a time limit, now that's some bs right there dude! I mean why would you need a time limit when you are forced to move?
"The Xenomorph, a terrifying space monster that makes you shit your pants four times over before brutally killing you!" "Silent, intelligent, and above all -" "Creepy" *sees **10:34* Are you sure about that, game?
Personally, I especially hate time limits in exploration-based games, especially in one-time levels with missable collectibles (Looking at you, megaman zero.) Oh, what's that? You want to collect all of the upgrades in this level? Well I hope you know where they all are, 'cause you have five minutes. I'm aware MMZ isn't exploration based, but it still gets the point across: Items you're encouraged to seek out SHOULD NOT be mixed with time limits on getting them. I see this specific incarnation of time limits, along with time limits in RPGs and tactics-based games that still count down *IN THE FIGHTS* , happen ENTIRELY TOO OFTEN for my liking. Let me explore, god damnit! Let me think! LET ME PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!
Swirl They're certainly fine in games that rely on them as a main mechanic, but anywhere else they're a nuisance, and personally I just don't like them in general.
I would rather have the time limit set off a another event then just end the current match or game. just having the timer be the killer is just annoying
After so long, I came back to this vid and just noticed something wich I loved. During the tutorials section when Logan says "Could be a monkey" you hear something say mankey, this is a reference to Smosh. Its even the exact same voice as the pokedex in the video. Just a very nice touch tbh.
Yeah, but the way he ranted about them, he pretty much hates almost all NPCs, since virtually every NPC is either like he said, or is like one of the NPCs used in the clips. Mr. Resetti was PICTURED, but one of the things he said he hated is NPCs asking you to do things that they're too lazy to do themselves, which, at least in the older Animal Crossings, is all the NPCs do in the game. They even tell you they're not going to do it themselves when they have you to do it. Anyone who doesn't like NPCs much will find Animal Crossing single player to be terrible.
I'm going to be gentle, yet blunt as possible; This countdown has some cringy moments. Stupid AIs aren't exactly a cliche, it's more of bad programming. The beginning animation not only was pointless, but it was way too show-offy. Also, the countdown topic wasn't exactly a good idea, not only is there barely anything new you can say, but there's also nothing new you can do without pulling something out of your ass. I'm not saying this because I hate you, and I don't. I refuse to hate you. Logan, you have a lot of potential as a countdown artist, and I understand that it can be stressful, however it doesn't feel like you're improving. Please try to understand what I'm saying. Pretty sprite work and unusual choices don't automatically make a good countdown.
Logan, buddy, you missed a huge one: LIMITED INVENTORY SPACE. Seriously, it's horrendous! Having an ever-looming threat of running out of space in your pockets or backpack and being forced to decide which of your valuable treasures to get rid of for good is AGONIZING. It's a problem that so many games fall victim to: Blazblue: Revolution Reburning, DC Universe Online, pre-Gen-4 Pokémon, games in the Fallout/Elder Scrolls series, and so on and so forth. I don't know how you missed it, but whatever. Limited Inventory Space is something that I think should've been somewhere on the list.
I guess. Also, in Skyrim, you can modify your carry weight without console commands! Just look up the Fortify Restoration Glitch. But that still doesn't help other games, especially DC Universe Online.
While watching the number one at the end of the video, I thought of something similar... Games making you complete the entire game again for an awesome (and highly desired) reward... but with the difficulty jacked up on steroids and holding up a middle finger for the player.
I'm glad somebody actually brings up Air Meters underwater, because no one seems to ever talk about them. They rarely even enhance or benefit the gameplay.
Oddly, in Splatterhouse 3, the time limit is meant to give you a different ending, and the golden gun in goldeneye 64 is useful when you're facing baron samedi.
+Thunder Shock Spoilers! The Post Game of PMD2 Includes You and Your Partner trying to defeat Darkrai, who is trying to put everyone into and endless nightmare. If you Couldn't guess, you ally yourself with Cresselia, but here's the thing. You're level is recommended to be 55. Cresselia's level is 47. And her moves aren't even better. Psybeam, Aurora Beam. THATS IT! And you can't turn off her moves either. Also this tries to come off helpful, but she shields you. With herself taking damage, which means if she's at low health, she'll still shield you, wasting your Reveiver Seeds. Fuck.....You......Cresselia.
+Thunder Shock there's a problem there. first, revive seeds are used automatically. second, if she dies, mission failed. it's pretty much an escort mission
Most of the "clones" in Melee are barely clones at all. Doc/Mario and Falcon/Ganon are the only pairs that are really similar at all, and even then, they play very differently. I really don't understand how you can keep saying that Falco is a clone of Fox with a straight face. Have you ever actually compared them gameplay-wise? Yeah, a lot of their moves look similar, but they function a lot differently. Falco has good vertical movement and horizontal kill power while Fox has good horizontal movement and kills vertically. Their shines are literally exact opposites, falco's knocks you into the air, fox's knocks you to the side. Smash attacks too, Falco's forward smash is his strongest, while fox's up smash is his strongest. As nicely as I can put it, don't comment on things you know absolutely nothing about.
They share a lot of animations and have similar attack(yes I know the attacks do diffrent thing). Regardless he should have been more clear with how he adressed it in the video
+Miles DeMarco I know that they have a lot of seemingly similar moves and lot of similar hitboxes. But he was basically saying that they were the same character, which is blatantly untrue.
ghostki101 Nothing much. An experimental game that held purpose and potential that haven't been properly utilized, which is fine, but Scott doesn't take his bloody time and tends to upgrade shit that doesn't need upgrading, while leaving the actual problems as it is. It's like Call of Duty. Not exactly bad games, but definitely a bad franchise, which is worse.
Time limits are the fucking worst when the time limit barely lets you reach your destination, and if you fuck up once, it's game over. Even worse when the level is unnecessarily difficult or just glitched to hell.
My personal worst chicles: "The princess is in another castle" and "The girl has been captured and the dude has to save her". Not joking, i mean the genders. It's ALWAYS the guy saves the girl. I'm a guy, and that bothers me.
Fun Fact: Mega Man legacy collection is basically a copy-and-paste of an older game "megaman anniversary collection" for the xbox, and it had megaman 1-8, and 2 arcade games! and i had bought for, like, 5 or 10 dollars at a used game store
Skyrim players: "I hate when the enemies think they can kill me when they just saw me kill something several times more powerful than them." Also Skyrim players: 16:23
