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Total Annihilation IS A PERFECTLY BALANCED GAME WITH NO EXPLOITS - Everything Is Broken In This RTS 

The Spiffing Brit
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Welcome to one of the first RTS games Total Annihilation Released in 1997 and the influence to multiple modern real strategy games. This might help explain some of the issues modern strategy games have with video game exploits because this game is not perfectly balanced. And if I am honest EVERYTHING IS BROKEN IN THIS RTS! You can exploit just about every feature in this game from the most simple mechanics to some of the most advanced strategies this game has. You can make units invincible. You can have units shoot across the entire map with unlimited range! You can even STEAL the enemy commander! The exploits in this game cannot even be counted but my goodness is it fun to play. So yes today the spiffing brit is going to be testing if Total Annihilation IS A PERFECTLY BALANCED GAME WITH NO EXPLOITS or if Everything Is Broken In This RTS and it is full of exploits, bugs and glitches.
You can grab yourself the GOG copy here for less than £2 for one of the best RTS games ever created: www.gog.com/re...
^You can even pick up the even more broken sequel Total Annihilation Kingdoms!^
So sit back and watch as the spiffing brit tests to see if Total Annihilation is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits or if the developers actually patched the game!! How can you even win an RTS game instantly by using the enemy commander as your weapon!
This video game exploit video will be jam packed with a best bits funny moments montage style of editing similar to that of Valefisk, Robbaz and RTgame. So sit back relax and grab a cup of tea to enjoy with the spiffing brit!
Magestic Merch: freshmerch.fm/...
Patreon: / spiffing
Twitter: @thespiffingbrit
Discord: / discord
Title: Total Annihilation IS A PERFECTLY BALANCED GAME WITH NO EXPLOITS - Everything Is Broken In This RTS
#TotalAnnihilation#Exploit #Broken

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29 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 2,6 тыс.   
@dmanbiker
@dmanbiker 4 года назад
Back in the day when this game first came out, Cavedog (the developer) released free downloadable unit and map packs. The game ended up with literally hundreds of different units to choose from for each side. You had mech units, vehicle units, air units, ship units, submarine units, and hovercraft units and each unit category has it's own builder unit that can build enhanced factories for their unit type. Both teams have totally different units, and the red team (in the expansion?) can build a giant super-mech that can just blow the hell out of anything, but takes FOREVER to build. One of the best things about this game is you can queue up almost unlimited actions with the shift key. Like you can tell a builder plane to go build a bunch of metal extractors (they will even build them automatically if set to patrol an area), then queue up a patrol of your base, and they will seamlessly go build all the extractors, then return to your base to patrol and automatically fix anything they see. You can even build aircraft repair pads which damaged aircraft will automatically use then continue their patrol routes. If total annihilation wasn't so dated, it would easily be one of the greatest macro RTS games even to this day. It's also worth noting: Even though the map is a 2D image, the ground has actual 3D height maps, and plasma weapons actually fire in a parabolic trajectory. You can build nuclear missiles, but you can also build anti-nuclear missile systems. Turrets were insanely powerful in this game. Some turrets were like calling down the hand of god on your enemy, giving you incentive to try to turtle. In this video he uses a Big Bertha heavy plasma cannon to lob a single projectile at the enemy base, but for significantly more time and resources you can build a six-barreled Gatling gun version that fires like twice a second and can drain your entire economy of energy if mishandled. I first played in '97 or '98, when I was at my friend's house. They had an engineer dad, with more than one computer to play games on, so my friend was going to fight me through the LAN from the other room. Unfortunately, I was only 7 or 8 and had no idea what was going on or what to do. His brother was supposed to help me, but only showed me how to build solar plants and then left. So I was walking around exploring and building solar panels with my commander like I'm playing Space Engineers, when all of a sudden there are aircraft everywhere, shooting me. I try to fight back, but I am overwhelmed... I fall... AND BLOW UP IN A GIANT EXPLOSION! I remember thinking about how I didn't even care that I lost because of how cool the game looked. That moment of that day has been ingrained in my mind for 22 years. Pure nostalgia. Planetary Annihilation could be a good spiritual successor to this game. It has very similar gameplay to this, except you are literally fighting on giant spherical planets orbiting the map. I wouldn't recommend paying full price for it since its development has been wrought with conflict and the game is a little glitchy, but it probably has one of the most similar feelings to the original game with some major improvements sprinkled in, and a really good gimmick.
@jaymorrison2419
@jaymorrison2419 4 года назад
I vividly remember Planet Annihilation and its massive collection of additional units.
@60sSam
@60sSam 4 года назад
Me (or possibly Jeff Goldblum): Ah, yes, ah, that would be the Core Krogoth unit. Literally Everyone, Everywhere, Ever: NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD!
@digimon916
@digimon916 4 года назад
God i remember that. It was insane. Never got around to all the units but loved using the seaplane builder. Since planes dont take up any ground space, id build like 100 seaplanes and build anything almost instantly, like 20 vulcans or big berthas 😂
@The_R_Vid
@The_R_Vid 4 года назад
@@60sSam I'm glad I wasn't the only one who knew it was the Core Krogoth. I hated that encounter.
@baudsp
@baudsp 4 года назад
never played total annihilation, but the macro you described look like a lot what's available in supreme commander
@NKV
@NKV 4 года назад
Best cheat in this game: +sing This causes your units to start scatting whenever selected or given orders. Of course, you never do this with your own units, you wait until your friend uses the restroom and when they come back everything is singing at them.
@rudepigeon
@rudepigeon 4 года назад
HONK
@TotalAnnihilationReplays
@TotalAnnihilationReplays 4 года назад
This even works when cheats are set to off. You can always +sing along.
@techhelpwizardgenie3146
@techhelpwizardgenie3146 4 года назад
Scatting lol. I know its a jazz thing, but it is also something far worse. Thank GOD they don't do the other one.
@rhysjones7061
@rhysjones7061 4 года назад
If you added "when targeted" before the scatter command, you could have perfect micro ...
@naranciaisbestboi125
@naranciaisbestboi125 4 года назад
*Insert Scatman John meme here*
@Gorebashed
@Gorebashed 4 года назад
For anyone curious the epic soundtrack to this game was done by Jeremy Soule, same guy who did the Elder Scrolls soundtracks, definitely my favourite game music composer.
@kalgrave497
@kalgrave497 4 года назад
YAS the sound track for this game was SO fucking good
@ChrisJones-xd1re
@ChrisJones-xd1re 4 года назад
The computer plays two moods of music, depending on the action on the screen; similar to the combat music popping up in later games, especially MMOs. The "building and exploration" tracks are near 100% great, where the "combat" tracks are a little south of 50% good, imo. I even see a similar trend in his later work, but not as pronounced.
@theydontlikeitupem.4725
@theydontlikeitupem.4725 4 года назад
This is hands down one of the best games ever made.
@rickedwards415
@rickedwards415 3 года назад
The story of this game is actually pretty awesome. Basically, there are two factions at war with each other, the Arm and the Core. The Core was an AI that ran the central government and, after a technological breakthrough allowing people to transfer their minds into machines and obtain immortality, began to require everyone to do so. The Arm was a rebel group who opposed this and eventually began mass producing clones to fight the Core, who simply copied peoples' consciousnesses to make more soldiers. The game takes place after thousands of years of war, with most of the entirety of the galaxy's resources having been depleted in each faction's quest to wipe out the other.
@kane2293
@kane2293 2 года назад
@@brooceleroy79 check out "beyond all reason". It's "armada" and "coretex" and it's all 3D.
@SoldadoTerrano
@SoldadoTerrano 2 года назад
Mostly interesting: in both campaings you play with the remenants of the armies.
@jasoncarthes
@jasoncarthes 2 года назад
For the transport exploit there is a simple counter : build a point defense first
@helmetfire5973
@helmetfire5973 2 года назад
The only acceptable outcome for either side being the total annihilation of the other.
@Rosskles
@Rosskles Год назад
@@helmetfire5973 *cue trumpets*
@Skellitor301_VA
@Skellitor301_VA 4 года назад
So, a few things to correct here: 1) "You can pick up anything with your transports" Not entirely true, there are certain units that are considered too big to move like the Krogoth, you also cannot pick up any navy vessels or units submerged under water. 2) "Construction airships can collect metal from metal deposits" This is not true, there is no mobile unit that can gather from metal deposits, only miners can collect from there. What you're referring to is the mass reclaim glitch on a rock or a tree, not a metal patch. This glitch makes it so if you have all the air construction units reclaim a map object at the same time, done through clicking it a few times to start reclaiming at the same time, then the resulting resource is multiplied by the number of craft that are collecting it. 3) "Trading units has an off chance of duplicating them" There is no unit trading between players, only capture. This happens when two players try to capture a unit at the exact same time from a third team. 4) "By placing down an expensive item and immediately hit reclaim on them, you get all the cost of the item" This is also not true, you only get what you spent on the item back minus a bit of bleed off since buildings under construction will decay resources if there is no active construction unit constructing it. There is a minor glitch where buildings that have an on/off state will switch between the two states during construction if attacked, like solar panels or radar. There is no resource glitch when it comes to buildings under construction. 5) While the multiplayer/competitive side isn't as active as most, the game still does have an active player base. Most of which is on the modding side of things adding all sorts of stuff like entire branches of units like hover units or an entire branch of spider units, experimental units, shield generators, etc. Also yes, there are tons of ways to cheese the AI, it's not a very hard AI to cheese. However playing with other people you wont get to use most of the exploits with them.
@coeusdarksoul2855
@coeusdarksoul2855 4 года назад
All of this. Seriously, every single thing here.
@Riotlight
@Riotlight 4 года назад
I’m pretty sure there was a trade unit option as when I used to play multiplayer and were teamed up with my friends if we were about to get our bases wiped out we would ask for a construction unit in their base so we could shelter and slowly rebuild. I’m guessing it was a command line function like +setsharemetal but I can’t remember what it is. I think we also gave construction units to our allies so they could build the other factions units. I always played core and they usually played arm.
@Skellitor301_VA
@Skellitor301_VA 4 года назад
@@Riotlight That's not trading in the traditional sense, you are providing shelter and you don't have control of your teammates unit. What Spiff is saying is you yourself can relinquish control of any of your own units to another team basically without input of the other team. The two players would repeatedly do this to the same unit for an off chance of performing some supposed unit duplication glitch. This is not a thing you can do in TA in any capacity. In order for you to gain control of another team's unit, ally or otherwise, you are required to capture the unit using your commander, or if you have a special unit that does capture. That's also the only way to use units for both Arm and Core. There is a command that lets you share metal and energy with another player so you can pool your resources between the two bases but that's it.
@Riotlight
@Riotlight 4 года назад
@@Skellitor301_VA yes we did get complete control of the unit. We sheltered with that 1 unit in our contol taking care not to get killed while we rebuilt our base in any spare space in their base. It definitely was possible to give units to allies. I just cant remember how.
@Skellitor301_VA
@Skellitor301_VA 4 года назад
@@Riotlight Actually you are correct, this is a function I wasn't aware of and had to look up. You select the units, press tab, and select the player you want to send the units to. This transfers that unit to your team. I'm still not finding any mention of a unit dupe glitch outside of this video.
@devilishgriiin
@devilishgriiin 4 года назад
The moment Spiff said airport I smiled because my memory recalled how many friend commanders I've stolen and taken hostage on 1v1. ;D
@noecarrier5035
@noecarrier5035 4 года назад
TA! My favourite. Played that so much in the day. The modding scene was so big for the era. It is still going. Also, there is absolutely nothing imbalanced about the nuclear weapons. They're nuclear weapons. They're supposed to do that. The ABM you can build will swat them effectively. Build more. I think it very accurately models real world game theory.
@psymcdad8151
@psymcdad8151 4 года назад
I played this game quite a lot with my friends back in the day, and the "Pick up Commander" would not fly that well in our group; You only fall for this once. Maybe twice... and maybe 2-3-4-5 more times. But eventualy you know; Anti-Air early game combined with reconnaissance aircraft on Patrol is the single most important thing in order to not die in the first 15 minutes. ...later on everybody eventualy died in Nuclear Holocaust when we tried to oversaturate the Anti-Nuke-Launchers of each other with tripple diggits of Nukes. ...Good old times...
@jabba5263
@jabba5263 4 года назад
OH my God... You gave us the best resume of TA ever. Thank you my good sir.
@korivakvehiclesims3341
@korivakvehiclesims3341 4 года назад
That was my late game build one game against a roommate. I launched a nuke at him, and he shouts back from across the living room, “I built anti-nukes, Matt.” I calmly asked him, “yes, but how many?” Then I launch another nuke. And another. And another. I had built a row of six nuke silos with multiple nukes each. Turns out he had one anti-nuke launched and had shift-clicked on it once, so he had five anti-nukes. Good times.
@jabba5263
@jabba5263 4 года назад
@@korivakvehiclesims3341 Good times... Good times.
@thrdeye7304
@thrdeye7304 4 года назад
Or you could, you know, build a radar and pay attention to the minimap. Picking up your enemy's commander was a perfectly fair strategy because everyone knew it could be done and it was their own fault if they allowed it to happen.
@coeusdarksoul2855
@coeusdarksoul2855 4 года назад
ComBombing usually got you blackballed from the communities back in the day. MSN Gaming Zone & MPlayer especially.
@tylerritter4530
@tylerritter4530 Год назад
Hey Spiff, Fall 2023 now and I still love this game. Epic soundtrack to boot! Thanks for all the great content you provide. Looking forward to the next one!
@thegun7701
@thegun7701 11 месяцев назад
im playing it right now
@Despe1942
@Despe1942 7 месяцев назад
immagine playing videos game and your goal is find way to exploit the game :D back in the day we had no such thing as idiot doin that@@thegun7701
@andrea.mf.hailey
@andrea.mf.hailey 4 года назад
Me: *has played this game regularly since its release* Spiff: *releases a TA video* "PLEASE BABY DON'T HURT ME"
@lucian9221
@lucian9221 4 года назад
Idea: spiff and other exploiters get in a civ six game and see who can win via exploits
@Puroboi8894
@Puroboi8894 4 года назад
Survival of the cheatest.
@MrFreesearcher
@MrFreesearcher 4 года назад
I'm still playing this on my Steam account, with the expansion pack. The best thing I love about this game is adding custom units and structures, giving some bad ass resource gathering, and some very very very OP units, that once one is built, it can take on everything on the map, and there is no stopping it, short of another one fighting back. I start my game by hiding behind a wall of dragons teeth, so the AI can stack up and have absolutely no idea how to fight me. Then I just place some rocket towers down to protect against occasional air attacks, and work on building my resources before building a Karganath, a custom bigger brother to the Krogoth. Once built, it's game over for the enemy.
@benblaik8770
@benblaik8770 5 месяцев назад
I'm three years late to this party but I still remember when we figured out that you could pick up other people's commanders with a transport plane at a LAN party. We all learned very quickly to build at least one rocket turret very early in our build queues!
@TheMigs101
@TheMigs101 2 года назад
I remember the one where you selected a construction unit, paused the game selected the the commander, unpause and your commander would have the new upgraded construction building. So many holes. Great game.
@danbernardes1726
@danbernardes1726 4 года назад
I used to play Total Annihilation: Kingdoms and I can't believe It is actually vintage stuff now.
@EvilNecroid
@EvilNecroid 4 года назад
its been so long since i played it i can barely remember it
@crimsontear99
@crimsontear99 4 года назад
Total annihilation needs a remake damn it!
@bblvrable
@bblvrable 4 года назад
PA is effectively a remake of TA. It's a terrible one, but it's basically the same game.
@scott-88
@scott-88 4 года назад
@@bblvrable no, it isn't. It's not even close
@Kazmahu
@Kazmahu 4 года назад
I used to love this game. A friend had a telephone-directory-sized strategy guide for it and all. Though if memory serves, I think there's actually an option in the game menus to turn on two-button mouse commands, which makes right-clicking the context orders and left-clicking on empty space clear selection. It's just toggled off by default since one-button interfaces were the norm at the time.
@davidfarmer1859
@davidfarmer1859 4 года назад
this is true
@coeusdarksoul2855
@coeusdarksoul2855 4 года назад
Yarp - basic gaming 101: check the options before playing.
@JamesFaction
@JamesFaction 4 года назад
@@coeusdarksoul2855 one of the very many basic things Spiffing Brit failed to do in this video. It's nice to see coverage of Total Annihilation, a game I still play all these years later. It would be even better to see an ACCURATE video about Total Annihilation.
@Neyokah94
@Neyokah94 4 года назад
I was just playing this game in May! I bought it for all my close friends on Steam and we played against each other! :) I used to play this game when I was little, I'm so happy you did a video on this game!
@Cohiba2
@Cohiba2 4 года назад
I always loved the cheesy OP custom units you could add. Like the custom big bertha that launched nuclear warheads, the alien reactor that basically gives unlimited power, cloaking, and OP air defense.
@TheKamakaziChimp
@TheKamakaziChimp 4 года назад
Total Annihilation was the 3rd RTS game I played back in 97, following C&C/Red Alert and was my defacto go to game for RTS cheese. Most of my cousins played this game back then and not one of them could beat me in it, and I'm still quite a formidable opponent in RTS games as few of my friends are willing to battle me after a Starcraft Broodwar 1v7 match that ended with me teasing them leaving only the bare minimum units/resources to attempt a comeback
@veegoesvroom6685
@veegoesvroom6685 2 года назад
Still playing it to this day with Absolute Annihilation mod.
@TheLoveRub
@TheLoveRub 4 года назад
Dark Reign: The Future War. Not very well known but a gem
@accutter
@accutter 4 года назад
I remember borrowing this game from my local library years ago when I was in school.
@TheMostTruth
@TheMostTruth 4 года назад
That was a really cool game aswell
@EvilNecroid
@EvilNecroid 4 года назад
when i was a kid i found that game too hard
@Adjuni
@Adjuni 4 года назад
I was thinking the other day "It would be nice if Spiff could make a Total Annihilation or a Dark Reign 1 video. Sad it's so unlikely." And now we have a Total Annihilation video!
@herasisrodney8378
@herasisrodney8378 4 года назад
I remember that you could play the soundtrack if you put the game disc in a CD player.
@MareSerenitis
@MareSerenitis 4 года назад
Long-time TA player, still going to this day. Some things you may find interesting. The ability for transports to pick up enemy units is very intentional, as it makes a some of the campaign missions _much_ more bearable. These are the missions where you start with just your commander in enemy territory and have to capture units to proceed. Yes, you can pick up an enemy unit, fly it over to your commander, and then capture it with complete impunity. Maybe being able to pick up commanders was not the greatest idea though. (Or maybe it was?) Tbh, there should have been a flag to disable picking up enemies in multiplayer. Even if you can't get hold of the enemy commander you can build crawling bombs, and use ctrl-D to set them off. Requires a good judge for timing though. (Just shooting them down doesn't set them off iirc.) This also works with the transport ship & hover which can carry several units, which if explosive in nature generates a somewhat amusing event with lots of "confetti". Aircraft are slightly unbalanced in another way: They can stack infinitely. It's not so much of a big deal for fighters and such, as almost all RTSes stack air units. But where it falls to pieces is the construction aircraft. You can build so many of them that you can either repair a beefy unit so fast it almost (but not quite) becomes immortal. Or you can build units much faster by having them all assist the same factory (or other construction unit). And you can have as many of them as you like, as they take up effectively no space while they're flying. When the game first came out the internet was cups and string, and made funny noises at you when you connected to it. As a result the network connectivity for this game's multiplayer was not stellar, and it was trivially easy to lag it so hard it would induce the effect mentioned in this video. And you didn't even need to do anything other than play the game as intended, just pick a specific team. You picked ARM. And then you built as many Flash tanks or Peewee bots as you could. What so special about these? Well, they're fairly cheap which is nice. But the real reason is that they're armed with the Energy Machine Gun, or EMG, which fires lots of little blobs really quickly. And your sub-potato computer _HATED_ it as it struggled to keep up with rendering hundreds upon hundreds of blob bullets being slowly drip fed through your slowly smouldering modem. "Flash Rushing" didn't make you any friends on most of the multiplayer hosts until broadband took off. And then it became just another "strat". You can also make submarines shoot torpedoes out of the water like fishy mortars using the same range exploit as shown with the Bertha in this. And I'm fairly sure there's a way to make bombers drop a _lot_ more bombs than they're supposed to, but I don't recall exactly. Hiding your commander in some tiny puddle somewhere was always amusing. Especially when the patch came out and you could build decoys.
@TotalAnnihilationReplays
@TotalAnnihilationReplays 4 года назад
Mr. Spiff! Current day TA player here. Still a fun game. People can join us at the TA Universe Discord or at the TA Universe Discord Some things: 9:00 Not true. There are a few units you can't pick up, Krogoth and Sumo in particular. 10:00 - Com-napping was used in online play, but difficult to pull off. Most people don't let themselves get napped. But if you had an ally that wasn't useful... 15:20 Off-screening was widely used in competitive play. Considered as completely fair play. 18:40 Overshooting was also used, but not as commonly. Primarily because it decreases the accuracy of the weapon. The exception is on low gravity maps such as Darkside, where everything became infinite range artilery. Some fun bugs you missed: Multi-Reclaim, Sparking, Bomber Stacking, and overwhelming anti-nukes. Enjoyed the vid! ( PS: PG Tips 4 life.)
@kungfuskull
@kungfuskull 4 года назад
I asked before and you responded, but I still need to see it My Lord: break DoW Dark Crusade. Because it is amazingly well balanced. And the NoLimit mod actually maintains balance... mostly. Id be fascinated to see you do it! Last time I posted this request, got a couple thousand likes. So, please 🥰 ruin my happy highschool memories!
@davidfarmer1859
@davidfarmer1859 4 года назад
It's funny you should mention this - When in got the first DoW it had a seal on the front quoting 'the best RTS since Total Annihilation' and that's what sold it to me :)
@Laurent_de_Graff
@Laurent_de_Graff 4 года назад
This game was one of my childhood game and the first RTS I had. That's the game I started learning engish for since everything from the game was in english even the manual... At the time we couldn't load the skirmish map where it's a full city (we called it chocolate bar) because we didn't have enough memory on our blue colored apple computer. I remember sneaking on my brothers when they were playing to hit "ctrl + D" while they were controlling their commander (they did the same) the stress you had when you failed to notice it in the first 3 sec of the countdown. Also remember that you could the install CD into your radio and it would play the games music. And when I discovered that you could pick up the enemy commander I was blown away. And I remember discovering that you could shoot farther with the big bertha, remember to hit "t" when using it to see where the shots land and adjust it ;) I probably have a ton more memory about it that I could share...
@wildanimalvids
@wildanimalvids 4 года назад
Hay spif I was only playing this yesterday lol I've been out of reach of your content for a wile but love the fact you haven't changed I'm gonna go and look back and see what I've missed out on 😊👍 keep it up and may queen countrie and tea ever be on your side
@DarkTwinge
@DarkTwinge 4 года назад
TA had a vibrant competitive multiplayer community for a solid 15 years and is still played today, which is a strong testament to how balanced the gameplay actually ended up being in practice (tho in many ways the devs didn't originally intend).
@AndrejGobec
@AndrejGobec 4 года назад
I replay this or its successor Supreme Commander once in a while ... I never knew for these exploits, but I utterly loved the main campaign. Seeing your hundreds of units descend upon the enemy base is one of greater joys in gaming :)
@jestemwlodzimierz
@jestemwlodzimierz 4 года назад
Spiff have you ever considered a vid on "Gothic"? Arguably the most broken rpg game with a cult following?
@Fr4gst3rz
@Fr4gst3rz 4 года назад
One of the best rpg series ever made, unless you are trying to break it.
@EvilNecroid
@EvilNecroid 4 года назад
gothic is awesome! but yeah i would love to see spiff break it :p
@Dogthedeadly
@Dogthedeadly 4 года назад
I haven't thought about that game in ages, that would be great! The combat was so janky.
@davidm6387
@davidm6387 4 года назад
@@Dogthedeadly The combat in g1 was not as broken as in g2, because in g2 if you hit the keys right you can spam out attacks way faster than the developers intended.
@Dogthedeadly
@Dogthedeadly 4 года назад
@@davidm6387 I wasn't big into either, I just remember that if you were lower than your opponent, you won
@Katharina-rp7iq
@Katharina-rp7iq 4 года назад
You're one of the few youtubers who actually manage to insert an ad without being obnoxious!
@samnitewarrior
@samnitewarrior 4 года назад
Ten Billion Trillion Infinities of Thumbs up for you. You Finally found my favorite RTS of all time.
@JamesFaction
@JamesFaction 4 года назад
and failed to give a decent, well-researched video about it. Instead trashing the game with inaccurate descriptions of "exploits". Tbh pretty disappointed with Spiffing Brit. This is not up to his usual standard at all.
@calebtice6668
@calebtice6668 4 года назад
Spiff: "...and consequently looks about as appetizing as deep-fried butter." Americans: That screen doesn't look like a Paula Deen dish...
@c0278x
@c0278x 4 года назад
Fried butter on a stick is actually a real thing in 'Murricah' 😂
@duhitzkyr63
@duhitzkyr63 4 года назад
@@c0278x as an american i apologize for the bastardization of cuisine that is deep fried butter on a stick.
@c0278x
@c0278x 4 года назад
@@duhitzkyr63 hey, it just proves you can deepfry anything 😂👍🏻
@legomacinnisinc
@legomacinnisinc 4 года назад
I used to play this a lot. It was one of my favorite games along with Age of Empires 2. I don't know man, that whole picking up a commander thing never struck me as an exploit, more like a skill check. Are you good enough to not have your commander just "yoinked" right at the start. haha anyways good vid man.
@Adjuni
@Adjuni 4 года назад
Yeah, one of the first buildings you should put up in multiplayer is missile towers.
@schanawan
@schanawan 3 года назад
@@Adjuni I once lost to this tactic in multiplayer and never fell for it again!
@Adjuni
@Adjuni 3 года назад
@@schanawan Yep. I was the one who did it to two of my friends. XD
@acrab6527
@acrab6527 4 года назад
I used to simply make piles of the Brawler aircraft. They circle strafe their enemy firing continuously. 95% of the units in the game could not reliably hit anything circle strafing them.
@rodrigoom5311
@rodrigoom5311 4 года назад
Hey, Spiffy! Me and my girlfrind, brother and father still play this game to this day and have only last year started to play it with the Escalation mod, which is really fun! Glad to see someone play this in 2020!
@gamertherapyconsoleyoursel5804
@gamertherapyconsoleyoursel5804 4 года назад
"Let's make this intro screen more palatable" *uses Comic Sans* DAMN YOU SPIFF
@tianamaycry
@tianamaycry 4 года назад
Hey, he said more palatable, the bar was really low, he got over it. lol
@dbergner51
@dbergner51 4 года назад
Bought total annihilation yesterday to relive my childhood days and man didn't even think of the transport exploit lol thank you for doing this video
@BlackBluRR
@BlackBluRR 4 года назад
Thanks for reminding me of my own mortality by drudging up a game from my childhood's childhood. Good looking out Spiff.
@Grubnar
@Grubnar 4 года назад
This game was a lot of fun back in the day. It is the grandaddy of Supreme Commander, had one of the best music of any strategy game ever made, by Jeremy Soule (who would later make the music for Skyrim) and like the Spiffing Brit already said, it is available on both STEAM and Good Old Games, where you can buy it for cheap. DO SO NOW!
@mercury6800
@mercury6800 4 года назад
19:55 “told them to commit sudoku” I think you meant to say seppuku 😂
@ainumahtar
@ainumahtar 4 года назад
Calling seppuku sudoku is a great way to make weeb eyeballs explode in anger.
@scootydoo42
@scootydoo42 4 года назад
I played the hell out of this game when I was a kid. My favorite thing to do is to kidnap enemy units (workers ideally) with transport aircraft and bring them to the commander to hack. Build enemy buildings. Win.
@starkeskinn
@starkeskinn 4 года назад
I would LOVE to see Metal Fatigue at some point
@AndGoatz04
@AndGoatz04 4 года назад
Yes, it's broke, but *_is this so broken, Spiff doesn't even need the power of Tea to exploit it?_*
@dioxidetotalannihilation9946
@dioxidetotalannihilation9946 4 года назад
Hey, this game isn't dead yet! There is a mod called "Escalation" which fixes these exploits and also offers more units and new visuals. We have a discord server "Total Annihilation Escalation" and we frequently play the mod online on GameRanger! Check it out if you liked the game :)
@Procrastinater
@Procrastinater 4 года назад
No, it's not broke at all, Spiff was just lying out of his teeth, in total he mentioned one exploit (the unit trading one) and failed to showcase another. All the rest of it were not exploits at all but working as intended helped by the game's dumb and passive medium AI.
@JamesFaction
@JamesFaction 4 года назад
There's more than one mod being played regularly, and a pretty comprehensive community patch, and more patching and modding in development
@deadlykitten4471
@deadlykitten4471 4 года назад
I did like how you put in a bunch about the history of RTSs
@LughSamildanach
@LughSamildanach 4 года назад
Still one of the best games ever. Still playing it 20 years later.
@nandornagy5955
@nandornagy5955 4 года назад
Me: Sees that the A.I.'s colors make a Hungarian flag. Also me:*happy Hungarian noises*
@EvilNecroid
@EvilNecroid 4 года назад
lol what do happy Hungarian noises sound like?
@RedSntDK
@RedSntDK 3 года назад
Total Annihilation was the most fun RTS I ever played, as a non-RTS fan that is, it was just so bonkers to see all the units and the amazing weapons like the Big Bertha or Vulcan.
@mrUhltak
@mrUhltak 4 года назад
T.A, wow it's been a while since I saw that game. It was fun, but when I remember me back as the game come out, it was completely broken. The enemy does crazy things at all: From chasing weak units, so you could kite a whole army and you minions scrap them to dust. Or the enemy commander walks right into your base and got shred. The base was lost, but "victory" was yours. It was wacky / funny as hell.
@0babul0
@0babul0 4 года назад
Game from my childhood! That was a memorable game.
@Yora21
@Yora21 2 года назад
I remember back in the late 90s, some kids putting this game side by side with Starcraft and Red Alert. And then only remembering every couple of years that this existed but I never hear of it.
@moocamttv8429
@moocamttv8429 3 года назад
I found this game at a Dollar Tree store in 2005 and it was bonkers. For the most part I didn't even build things and used the commander to do all the heavy lifting in combat.
@vomitkermit3446
@vomitkermit3446 4 года назад
Fun fact Jeremy Soule did the music for this game. Looks like no matter what The Spiffing Brit does, Todd Howard is just around the corner.
@elmuerte17
@elmuerte17 4 года назад
I liked this video before I even started watching it. TA is one of my all time favourite games and my introduction to RTS.
@moustachman7212
@moustachman7212 4 года назад
I often captured an arm builder (plays core) and build a massive army of both factions. Core with expansion was way to OP
@BIAKaboose
@BIAKaboose 4 года назад
It's nothing too crazy of an exploit and has since been patched out, but I remember in one of the Astroneer patches early on in the Early Access stages you could have your character sit in a chair designed for one of the moon buggies, then click to pick the chair up with your character still sitting in it, and you could move the chair anywhere you wanted, including lifting it off the surface of the planet and into space, or even all the way to other planets. Since the chairs were the part of vehicles that provided life support to your character it would even provide you oxygen while you were sitting in it, meaning that with the power of chairs attached to nothing you could explore the entire galaxy without ever needing anything else to survive provided you get back in the chair periodically to refill your air and energy.
@cabz5872
@cabz5872 4 года назад
FYI in emperor battle for dune, you can use transports to pick up enemy units as well, not just in total annihilation
@salinevaleni7180
@salinevaleni7180 4 года назад
As someone who plays Planetary Annihilation, it's really cool to see where it came from. And how entirely broken the original game was.
@LegoTimeLord1
@LegoTimeLord1 4 года назад
19:55 I do love it when people commit Sudoku XD
@jxg1652
@jxg1652 Год назад
For a modernized experience with vastly improved UI, graphics, balance and unit limit... And easily 150-200 players online at any time in any timezone (Not counting passworded servers) - at the moment theres 10 filled up 8v8 servers and several smaller ones... Try Beyond all Reason, BAR. Its the successor to a spring-engine based TA mod called Balanced Annhilation.
@robertsay4374
@robertsay4374 3 года назад
Yeah, I still play this game. Got my first copy for free with a pre-built Pentium 2 PC in 97 and it’s still great fun. Don’t even need exploits, just play the Core faction and build a few “Krogoth” Kbots - they’re basically invincible giant mechs that can vaporise any Arm unit or structure with one shot. No kidding, this was just in the game, no exploits they just though that sort of thing was fine. I miss the 90s...
@levaChier
@levaChier 4 года назад
If you want a free and open-source version of this game, play Zero-K, it's the same but in 3D with tons of unit branches and minus the exploits of course (or is it?). Really it's an awesome game, and it's fun to see its inspiration comes all the way back to 1997
@Jp3970
@Jp3970 4 года назад
Grew up with this game, easily the game that got me into RTS. I loved the mods you could get for this game, i wonder if they still exist. Like the Belezeebub mega mech that was like the size of 50 commanders and its auto attack fired nukes.....good times
@amdreallyfast
@amdreallyfast 4 года назад
Don't forget the Core Contingency expansion that introduced the Krogoth and the Vulcan Canon, both of which were rude gestures to balance.
@JamesFaction
@JamesFaction 4 года назад
lol how? Both of them are terrible value (along with the Buzzsaw) and only had usefulness on certain maps such as metal maps, which are not played often.
@amdreallyfast
@amdreallyfast 4 года назад
@@JamesFaction Metal maps were the only maps that my friends and I played :). What they lacked in value they made up for in awesomeness. We weren't particularly good players.
@mushroom032
@mushroom032 4 года назад
TA nukes were awesome! The whole screen shook! Compare that to Red Alerts nukes that barely scratched the paint on buildings and killed maybe two trash units. I remember playing this at a friends house the first time as a kid, without knowing any english. We saw a robot with a huge barrel ontop of it and reasoned that must be the best robot, it clearly throws huge bombs. So we build a ton of those best robots and attack the enemy. But the robots dont do anything and just get destroyed. Many years later I learned it was the radar jammer robot... Good times. But even with its flaws TA was lightyears ahead of many RTS's made even today. Shift click linking orders was awesome, the ammount of units you could have (upto thousands if your hardware could take it), the mods were insane, the immense range of artillery and destruction of the nukes all made the TA superior to pretty much all other RTS's of the time.
@GrimReaperPTD
@GrimReaperPTD 4 года назад
In the original Red Alert you could edit the ini files with a hex editor and make a spy run around with a Tesla coil, C4 and more. Also you could increase unit range etc. :P
@BarnabyBear69
@BarnabyBear69 4 года назад
Alright Spiff, would love an exploit video on Medieval Total War 2. It's far too majestic to have not had a video on it.
@imperator5228
@imperator5228 3 года назад
I've had this on Steam for a couple years, it's... really old, but I've managed to enjoy it, even though it's almost as old as I am. There's also the free game on Steam ZeroK, which is basically a remake of this one, complete with some of the exploits you've shown, but with a lot more features and units.
@Cpt.Str4ng3
@Cpt.Str4ng3 4 года назад
And while spif is still talking, i ordered 320 bags of yorkshire tea.
@DrYnroh
@DrYnroh 3 года назад
I loved TA never thought the kidnapping of enemy commanders was cheesy tho... they could do the same lol
@Riotlight
@Riotlight 4 года назад
I used to play this game multiplayer with a few friends. What I always found hilarious was to put SAM sites in my allies base, claiming I would help with the air defence. However the SAM missiles had a low firing arch but long range, which meant when ever an enemy plane came near the SAM site would fire off a constant stream of missiles. However these missiles would collide with the allied buildings and do vast amounts of damage! Lmao. Most of the time they didn’t realise it was the friendly SAM doing the damage. Lollop lol. But boy were they mad when they figured it out! Had my Dutch friend raging at me for a while!!! (SAMs were part of one of the expansion packs. And I used to load up TA every now and again for a game against some OP cheating AI until just a few years ago. It was one of the games that I never uninstalled from my system. Unfortunately I got a new PC a couple of years ago and haven’t bothered to install it again) I have many amazing memories of playing TA, all of which come flooding back when I listen to the amazing soundtrack. Quite possibly the best game music ever imo. I’m happy to of spend my teenage years playing TA.
@213fenix
@213fenix 4 года назад
Ah a throwback to my childhood, Im surprised I picked up on it as a kid and abused the hell out of using their nuke against them
@MrHarumakiSensei
@MrHarumakiSensei 4 года назад
Story wise, it's not AI versus humans. It's people who downloaded their brains onto computers versus regular humans.
@PsychoMuffinSDM
@PsychoMuffinSDM 4 года назад
"If you want a free bombing run without worrying about enemy attack, you can fly him off the map and loop around" yeah, that still happens even in FAF
@johnmager9364
@johnmager9364 3 года назад
that deep frie butter analogy falls flat on american ears, where thats basically our diet.
@neiledwards198
@neiledwards198 4 года назад
Build a dragon teeth wall. Almost indestructible base defence. Such a great game back in the day :)
@0lderSch00l
@0lderSch00l 4 года назад
I love this game. I bought it back when it originally released; me and my best friend played it solo and over LAN. I actually reinstalled it about a month ago; the single player campaigns are pretty well balanced, but the multiplayer can get insanely over balanced even without exploits. I remember building a naval force that, thanks to the shape of the map, could kill anyone on land from the water, it was utterly ridiculous, but since I aggressively destroyed any building in the water, I was effectively immortal. It's really easy to get that kind of a strangle hold on the game with land, sea or air units so long as you spawn in a good place and can get metal and energy production up and running ASAP.
@JamesFaction
@JamesFaction 4 года назад
vs another player with a similar skillset is where the magic really happens :) check out the youtube channel "Total Annihilation Replays" for replay with commentary of games between the top players of the game over the last 15-20 years. Very entertaining :)
@MrSirclint
@MrSirclint 4 года назад
TA was and is still one of my favorite games of all time.
@Chipp4
@Chipp4 4 года назад
Can you add Supreme Commander to your list for future? Would love to see you cover that as a sequel to this one 😊
@danielsvahn8447
@danielsvahn8447 4 года назад
I made the biggest offence possible. I drank coffee, the umpty mug I filled with Yorkshire tea (without rinsing out the left over coffee) and added oaths milk instead of milk. I needed to confess
@Goz86
@Goz86 4 года назад
I loved this game. I still have it on cd rom somewhere in the house in a box. Remember getting it for free in a cereal box.
@No_Tutorial
@No_Tutorial 4 года назад
I grew up playing the Supreme Commander series, so I would love to see some SC or SC Forged Alliance exploits :)
@markthephantom9811
@markthephantom9811 3 года назад
this was and still is one of my favorite games ever
@ombra30
@ombra30 3 года назад
well....this was my first game on PC in my life...just a little more than 20 years ago, and i spent days on it....i've never noticed this kind of exploits.....except the spamming bombers and fighters to fly-attack the enemy base
@martinhrmo3574
@martinhrmo3574 2 года назад
I have been playng this game my entire childhood and this is the first time I heard it had exploits
@rodbonner7370
@rodbonner7370 4 года назад
I still have my original copy of this game. Loved the game back in the day.
@Usumgallu
@Usumgallu 2 года назад
Best game design. Modern games are like: "hey we give you this nice unit that can do X.. oh no, you cannot do the X thing on Y.. and nope, you cannot do the X thing on Z either... or Y"
@Twerkinman
@Twerkinman 4 года назад
This game was a big portion of my childhood and what got me into RTS games. It's jankiness is what made it fun. The total escalation mod that alot of people use on gameranger adds alot of content and some of the bug fixes. The community may not be as big as others but damn is it dedicated and resilient.
@T90Official
@T90Official 4 года назад
Thanks for the shoutout for AoE2 and myself in this PERFECTLY BALANCED VIDEO with NO EXPLOITS
@mathyou2833
@mathyou2833 4 года назад
Hiiiiii
@mathyou2833
@mathyou2833 4 года назад
The Spiffing Brit pretty sure the ai run on a potato
@edwardlewsey3954
@edwardlewsey3954 4 года назад
I would be intrigued to know whether Spiff himself plays AOEII ? (btw T90 been watching entire HC3 now (up to Quarterfinal #2 now- tis excellent!!!)
@albertonavarro8904
@albertonavarro8904 3 года назад
He should do the exploit where you put three archery ranges on a neutral island
@OGPurePhoenix
@OGPurePhoenix 3 года назад
Great video Spif but you can merely.... NOT build with your commander and he's safe from pickup. Or watch the minimap like a hawk and press S for Stop when somebody tries it....which pretty much everyone does already in competitive play. No, the bigger concerns in MP competitive were things like cancel-strafe bombing. Instead of a full route, you could just bomb, cancel order, re-target while over their base to re-bomb and nothing could hit you because the movements were so erratic
@fendelphi
@fendelphi 4 года назад
"4 different AIs" apparently includes Spiff himself. Now everything makes sense.
@joxerd
@joxerd 4 года назад
So Spiff is from the same family as Bot001
@maxflug8008
@maxflug8008 4 года назад
@@thespiffingbrit an AI made by Yorkshire tea... That's why you aren't getting sponsored! D:
@fendelphi
@fendelphi 4 года назад
​@@thespiffingbrit Your secret is sa... I mean; NOTHING TO SEE HERE. DRINK SOME TEA AND BE ON YOUR WAY FOLKS.
@arksigma7709
@arksigma7709 4 года назад
👏, 👏, 👏
@superspicy8740
@superspicy8740 4 года назад
The Spiffing Brit *THEY KNOW TOO MUCH ACTIVATE THE TEA NUKE*
@ugerwashy
@ugerwashy 4 года назад
Spiff: “Build a trebuchet” Also Spiff: *shows catapult* Me: “hello is that the Inquisition?”
@kingofavation7007
@kingofavation7007 4 года назад
Not if you're batman
@themanjaquio4069
@themanjaquio4069 4 года назад
No one expected them.
@JNCressey
@JNCressey 4 года назад
a trebuchet is a type of catapult. what you mean is spiff showed some kind of onager (or something, history of siege engines and what name applies to what is pretty jank) - being a different kind of catapult. but all are types of catapult.
@ElysiaWhitemoonOmega
@ElysiaWhitemoonOmega 4 года назад
@@JNCressey just wanted to say this too:P
@Oblithian
@Oblithian 4 года назад
_"one of them we told quite simply to commit _*_soduku_*_ "_ - The Spiffing Brit 2020
@bblvrable
@bblvrable 4 года назад
That's sudoku. The most painful way to end your existence.. math games.
@itayraz8530
@itayraz8530 4 года назад
Was looking for this
@ElementalAlchemy
@ElementalAlchemy 4 года назад
@@itayraz8530 same. Lol
@StevenKetchum
@StevenKetchum 4 года назад
Almost as humilating as committing minesweeper.
@mrchips89vods23
@mrchips89vods23 4 года назад
The gravest of crimes require sudoku to be commited!
@PhoenixofEclipse
@PhoenixofEclipse 4 года назад
Spiff: “For a while this was of the best games you could buy but now it’s just completely and utterly broken.” Todd Howard: “DID SOMEBODY MENTION SKYRIM?!”
@literallycanadian
@literallycanadian 4 года назад
The even better part is jeremy soule made the music for both.
@tomisabum
@tomisabum 4 года назад
I was seriously thinking this when they mentioned how it won so many awards.
@GundamGokuTV
@GundamGokuTV 4 года назад
Look at you thinking Skyrim was good.
@serotonin.scavenger
@serotonin.scavenger 4 года назад
@@GundamGokuTV TESV had good and bad parts, tbf
@TheIceThorn
@TheIceThorn 4 года назад
Did you mention "Ants Empire"? So broken it doesn't even start.
@xainesdemise3313
@xainesdemise3313 4 года назад
Me - "Spiff can we get a trebuchet?" Spiff - "We have a trebuchet at home!" The Trebuchet at home - That catapult.
@alconeuskhan4747
@alconeuskhan4747 4 года назад
i remember the tactic of telling the artillery to force attack under their attack range to hit outside their potential range. this was an amazing feature of TA that added extra dimensions to the gameplay. best game ever
@THE_BATLORD
@THE_BATLORD 4 года назад
its called big bertha and yeah aiming down forces it to do that elevation thing
@mcxpl0de
@mcxpl0de 3 года назад
yeah are we playing $#@#$@ing Conan here or talking bout TA bring on the Big Bertha
@Слышьты-ф4ю
@Слышьты-ф4ю Год назад
​@@alconeuskhan4747 yeah, and you can actually choose a distance (the closer to the gun center, the farther) and shoot more precisely
@TheIceThorn
@TheIceThorn 4 года назад
You've got just something wrong about TA; it's creator clearly told: "I created it just for myself and my friends; i didn't expected that much audience about it".This game falls under the "Fonzie Complex"
@PermanentlyTemporary
@PermanentlyTemporary 4 года назад
More than just that: 1. It was peer-to-peer, so there weren't servers in between the players. 2. It had a unit cap of 200 (and then later increased to 250) 3. Though the switching cheats on was a thing. I don't remember +iwin working in Multiplayer. and that's just stuff I remember off the top of my head. /shrug
@TheIceThorn
@TheIceThorn 4 года назад
@@PermanentlyTemporary there was the unlimited units mod but then the AI started to s0000ck. The cheats didn't work in MP becausenyou could turn them off at the lobby.
@BrainSlugs83
@BrainSlugs83 4 года назад
I feel like it was also never advertised. I only found out it existed after a "completely legal and legitimate backup copy" *ahem* fell into my lap (cause yeah CD burners were becoming popular right as this game was coming out). XD
@TheIceThorn
@TheIceThorn 4 года назад
@@BrainSlugs83 I've seen demos of it in magazines but never found it to buy it or I totally would have bought it. In Italy computers and games at those times arrived years after they were published.
@JamesFaction
@JamesFaction 4 года назад
The premise of this video is untrue. Most "exploits" mentioned were considered valid tactics that were hard to implement and/or easy to counter. There was a very competitive multiplayer community, in fact there still is now albeit not so active these days. Check out "Total Annihilation Replays" youtube channel for some very high level games from back in the day with excellent and entertaining commentary.
@asteroiderer
@asteroiderer 2 года назад
Oh my god, I thought I'd never see the day when a popular youtuber would play one of the best classic games I've ever played. Thank you Spiff.
@jenssabai9885
@jenssabai9885 6 месяцев назад
I played until no hardware supported. But I still playe it now in my windows 7 Laptop, I hope it can stand longer than I live.😁
@firockfinion3326
@firockfinion3326 4 года назад
"Enemy transport spotted! Shoot it down!" "Wait, is that our commander on board the enemy transport?" *"I SAID SHOOT IT DOWN!"*
@Taolan8472
@Taolan8472 4 года назад
That's been one of my favorite strategies in skirmishes. Doesn't work on attentive players though
@Nighthorde26
@Nighthorde26 4 года назад
In TA Kingdoms they always keep their Lord in the same area, and 1v1 a Lord is the easiest thing to do because the AI is bad at Lord duels. So you could effectively start a game and immediately hunt down a single Lord before they get anything up. My favourite, though, is the game managed to make (almost) invincible walls. To destroy them, you need a trebuchet or catapult to destroy them, but the AI doesn't. So the best way to win is to just box in your nearest enemy AI and deal with the rest while your pet AI sits in its little box. It's a wonderful game
@skeeter.1017
@skeeter.1017 3 года назад
When I was much younger I accidentally found out you can pick up enemy commanders, so yeah... I also had fun watching the enemy destroy themselves
@JamesFaction
@JamesFaction Год назад
silly thing is all you need to do is tell your commander to move away. as he moves away and the transport attempts to chase to pick it up, your commander can easily laser it out of the sky. it's not an "exploit" it's a legit part of gameplay. If you weren't paying attention to your commander AND hadn't built any AA near it, you deserve what you get...
@PaxIesus
@PaxIesus 4 года назад
"Looks about as appealing as deep-fried butter." Me, an American: Ah, finally something I can relate to!
@Th3BlackLotus
@Th3BlackLotus 4 года назад
Wait till he hears about deep fried beer.
@Oskanwhitchfather
@Oskanwhitchfather 4 года назад
@@thespiffingbrit No, no. It's a real thing, Spiff. Wait until I tell you about deep fried twinkies. Or bacon wrapped, deep fried, snickers candy bars....
@Grateful42
@Grateful42 4 года назад
@@thespiffingbrit it's a carnival food i think . . . i'm sorry.
@pyroshrimp4073
@pyroshrimp4073 4 года назад
America does in fact deep fry everything. Our buildings, clothes the very air we breathe is deep fries.
@PreistofGHAZpork
@PreistofGHAZpork 4 года назад
Deep fried Lard is a thing in the south
@jackwright2346
@jackwright2346 2 года назад
Literally the first video game I ever played after my dad introduced me to it and single handedly got me into gaming FOR LIFE. I was literally obsessed with this game and still miss it so much
@MyriadColorsCM
@MyriadColorsCM 2 года назад
Come back, the community is still alive, just look for "Total Annihilation Forever".
@dukkemonterier3429
@dukkemonterier3429 Год назад
@@MyriadColorsCM Tauniverse is still up.
@AJRhinoBear
@AJRhinoBear Год назад
I just joined ta forever. It is awesome. The game is really ballanced with the pro ta mod and the community is small but pretty active. Having a blast and I havent rts since 1999.
@kistuszek
@kistuszek 10 месяцев назад
Check out beyond all reason, if you havent already.
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