Join my discord server if you want to join the testing and development of the mod: discord.gg/WWaF3p4hTE More videos will be uploaded as the mod progresses.
I was like: "damn, they brought back formations in Warhammer 3! Maybe there is still hope in Creative assembly after all." And then I realize it's a mod. Good job sir
@@tomthestone1470 it's quite logical btw, higher the speed of incoming object, higher the impact for the incoming object, if target has a sharp spear or halbeird.
this looks great. I always felt quite sad that the more rank in file soldiers of the warhammer total wars such as the empire and dwarves had no formations, felt kind of dissapointed that these soldiers which go through professional training just stand there and whack their enemies.
This is absolutely one of the best mods i have seen so far. The utility this add's is amazing. It actually helps balance the biggest issue of the Total war meta, being ranged units, and giving more value to heavy infantry. This definitely helps with charges and missiles, but is balanced by the blobbing up, making aoe magic, explosives, and artillery more effective against them like a double edged sword, so you need to pick when and where to use it. I love the way this could interact with how people play the game overall. SO many possibilities, gonna be an instant pickup the second it's available on the workshop for me! The only bit im confused about is the stat values you had on units in the testings.
This kinda shows an interesting problem CA needs to address. From a distance all units lose some detail in order to maintain performance. The problem here is that shields make up a big part of being able to recognize a unit (shielded units in this case) based on its silhouette, which disappears when you zoom out, meaning the silhouette changes. The same problem is the case for great weapon infantry. This seems like a really easy fix, just stop the detail reduction from applying as drastically to the shield and weapon models.
The actual equipment on a unit variant has no part on the LoD models. The low detail distant models are very simple like "humaniod imposter" for human / human sized and so on so forth, there is not "dwarf shielded or dwarf greatweapon" just "dwarf imposter"
@@shapesdontfly that would mean adding another imposter to the game files for every race that has different shielded units and more processes to run for the low detail model display (which would probably hinder performance)
@@andresscott1086 More imposters would definitely add to the installation size, the same with more processes, but those new processes would replace the old ones, not run at the same time, assuming CA is optimizing. And even assuming its a performance loss anyway, how much would it really be comparative to all of the other working parts in the game like the ai functions? It seems like if it exists its a worthwhile cost to achieve better unit recognition for users.
Don't get me wrong you did excellent and stunning work with this but goddamn, it had to take guys like you, instead of the company, to place something so basic in an army tactics game like working formations. If I'm not wrong, their older games already had this at their own launches no? Regardless of the claims of questionable competency, fabulous well done good sir. These are to die for.
im so excited for this to be ported to warhammer 3 eventually. This is exactly the mod ive been looking for to enhance my game. Looking forward to seeing future progress!
Imagine, An Ironbreaker wall, But moving with that formation, And throwing blasting charges then going back to that castle form. I'm your 515th sub man! Damn this is awesome
It gives melee a fighting chance against missile fire, I agree with monstrous infantry doesn't really have a place if CA would implement this change it would make legendary campaign more epic and balanced rather than range spam.
Ok the Dwarfen Testudo is just insane, the way they just walk through that arrow rain basically unharmed is incredible. While I would worry it makes them a bit too strong aginst the elfen factions, I guess it depends on how those formations perform against artillery and magic seeing how the units get even closer than usual they SHOULD be more vulnerable to that.
It’s completely broken. They took volley after volley without a single casualty. I hope this is a WIP or simply an animation demonstration because if not, this mod is going to absolutely ruin the balance of the game. A formation like this is intended to mitigate losses to ranged fire but in no way can it prevent them. When you have hundreds of people firing hundreds of arrows at you, magical arrows or otherwise, some of them are going to find their mark and probably kill them. It’s statistically impossible for soldiers to cross a field taking fire all the way and all survive.
Artillery and spells would wreck them even better because formations get tighter. Otherwise good to see shields working as intended for once. Cowardly elgi arrows.
@@mphylo2296 Nah nothing is broken. Some of the arrows already hit them, it's not 100% block. Besides there are downsides to these formations and these are dawi. Bronze shields are useless otherwise. Archer spam is way too effective in vanilla already shields or not.
This is really awesome! Thank you for implementing a basic feature that has been in Total War since Rome: Total War 1! It's a shame that CA just keeps dumbing down these games in favor of making everything more casual friendly. Atleast we've got an awesome modding community to help alleviate some of that. :)
Is there any particular reason you chose to give regular spears access to the square formation instead of the pikes? Thematically and logically I'm thinking the two should be flipped. I'm imagining a true pike-and-shot army I originally imagined when I heard about Warhammer, fielding pike squares to hold against enemy infantry while blocks of handgunners shoot at the infantry in between the pike squares.
pike & shot was a development in combat that didn't always exist irl , in warhammer only a small number of special units have that capacity , typically Tilean mercenaries, High Elven Naval units & Kislev's infantry
@@Marcusjnmc It should be noted that square formation is a highly advance formation for a unit to be able to form so low experienced troops shouldn't be able to form one.
this is amazing, much better than the bracing mechanic they try to introduce in warhammer 3 and to be frank, as it looks right now from gameplay content from warhammer 3, the bracing doesnt even seem to work propperly lol
Formations bug out bad when a monster or single entity unit make contact, some form of auto release of formations might in theory work around that but I for one have no idea if the current engine supports that sort (if - then) interaction based on unit states and classing.
Formations give more tactical viability to troops which gives them more effectiveness on the field so I like this. Though I would like to make a suggestion to give Greenskins more offensive formations as due to their more offensive disposition I don’t see shield wall really fitting boyz when they could be on the charge. And I was wondering if archer units could get loose formation if that’s possible?
For the first one lore or common sense wise it doesn't really make sense for the greenskins, save for black orcs, to have formations because they don't have the discipline for it like I couldn't imagine skaven clanrats using formation either or vampire counts etc... And if you watch the battles it looks like loose formation is in the mod already.
@@CanadianGreekhoplite i think for more evil factions like greenskins or skaven i think only elites should be able to use formations like black orcs, or stormvermin, as they are smarter and more trained than the comorn unit
Couple suggestions: Give the square formation to the pikemen. They will combine better with the arquebuses. Give the cantabrian circle to all firearm imperial cavalry.
Dwarf testudo still has a massive gap between first and second rank making it silly looking when enemy shots hit the gap but deal no damage. Otherwise I admire your work, its like you are giving a very needed pragmatical realism layer into fantasy, thanks!
Why this stuff wasn't in the game to begin with despite the game being able to support it? 1) Games Workshop's fault. 2) Devs tried to then gave up on it because it was very buggy with monstrous and giant creature interactions very early in development. 3) Bugs with magic interactions. The second and 3rd points became strikingly apparent in the mod when you encounter them. It's unfortunate, because outside of fantasy stuff, this mod turns otherwise mundane normal battles into the game into something more akin of classic Total War matchups.
This is awesome. I've been hoping they'd add something like this for a long time. Doesn't look like they did add it in game 3 :( I hope you do manage to port this to Warhammer 3! Looks great.
This is awesome. Is bracing impacted/changed at all? Bracing is sort of how the formations are pseudo-implemented at the moment, so I'm a little worried about balance if you don't mind me asking. Formations look amazing :D
The greenskin having an overhaul would be quite nice too, I would think of some formations for them. -Shield wall Used for orc boys and goblins, would slow them down but give them alot of defense. -Wedge formations of Cav For the boar boys. -spearwall for goblins Make a goblin spearwall for them for defenses and maybe to hold off cav. -Orc taunting Start taunting the enemy to scare them -Black orc square formations Tight formations for the black orcs to give them extra defenses.
@@FilipMoncrief I'm cline to disagree, because there are ijdtances when there where goblin spearwalls and even one greenskin campaigning(these are only exceptions, but you should still get my point.)
cool mod! sadly i dont play newer total war games (wont go into depth as to why here, in short - i agree with most things volound says) good thing to see that competent people still exist in the community even in the newer games
And thus being near immune to arrows is punished by a proper counter. If only C.A remembered rock paper balance to units rather than big thing smash and more dakka
Now I want to see a Saurus warrior or Temple Guard testudo lol. Kinda sucks how they have loose formations now, I liked their actual formations in the early days of the tabletop game.
I wish a lot of the game graphic designers and the modders could meet up and discuss how to improve games before sending them out into the world. Or just make everything like Xbox version of Skyrim.
Looks awesome! On top of the stat buffs are there also changes to unit behavior? Thinking of multiple ranks of pikes fighting and better ability to hold the line. One thing that bugs me a bit is the way dwarves buckled from the arrow fire and took 0 losses. No way that blocks all arrows and I didn't quite like the look, maybe have them maintain formation better, but slow down a bit under so intense fire? While it shows the momentum those arrows had, it reminds me of 3k testudo blocking everything while literally having openings. The second thing is how those big beasts charging head first into pikes all survived and so did the pikemen who got launched way back. There should be casualties on both sides the way I see it, I'm not at all fond of the hitpoint system. Of course the massive thing dies harder than a regular pikeman, but I'd rather it be the old system where soldiers have 1hp and big guys a couple. However, I see that magic would become more problematic and I don't know to what level you can tweak that. It's a massive improvement over the original and proof that CA simply doesn't want to make a better game. I wonder whether it's salvageable though, looking forward to see what you'll craft next.
This mod is great and you're complaining about things he can't change or doesn't need to like the hitpoint system? That's impossible for him to do anything about. Complaining that the shield castle from upfront blocks a lot of arrows.... ok then shoot from the sides or the back with your infantry that is ALWAYS going to be faster than a dwarf that is slower while using this formation or your cavalry or magic or artillery or large monsters Jesus just because you can't missile spam go play Call of the end times if you want the old system.
@@CanadianGreekhoplite This mod is work in progress, I'm merely throwing ideas at it. He has already changed the hitpoints of units, I don't see why he couldn't set them to 1. I see why he wouldn't want to, but I have already said that. Of course the "shield castle" should block a lot of arrows, it's the point of the formation. My issue is with them being completely impervious, taking literally 0 losses, especially as the line deformed under incoming fire. Their shields aren't big enough to cover them fully, but this is a proof of concept, which is why I focused on the line deformation part instead. If you are referring to the Warhammer mod for Medieval 2 I did play some of it. It was vastly superior to the actual warhammer game, but it's still medieval 2 so it plays badly.
If any army in Warhammer would use this, it would be Dwarves. The nancy Elves dancing around shooting arrows have to have a counter and this looks like it.
I know its supposed to be balanced gameplay for all facitons and all but i didnt get why the hell Human factions in this litteraly dont use anything they have and can do againt the monsters and more. Litteraly Armored Halberdiers in Halberd wall with first line kneeling second normal braced and third halberds up their heads. Nothing could get through them without almost dying
These Formations are a giant Liability in a world Where monsters breathe fire are as tall as 5 Story buildings or made of stone Even a novice fire sorcerer can cast a fireball which in this tight formation will cause much death and disruption And what are you doing when a Giant whose upper arms are longer than your pike picks up a tree and yeets it into your formation Then there is the additional danger of flying units and bombs I don’t have to explain why a shrapnel bomb in a tight formation is a recipe for disaster And what use is your formation when a vargheist twice your size and weight(Including Armour) swoops down from above picks you up and drops you into your own Comrades who are standing shoulder to shoulder the other factions have their own advantages High elves can doge multiple spear tips even in a phalanx formation Lizard men skin is like armour and will push the pikes simply aside Pikes Spears and Hellebards are useless against undead who can’t feel fear and don’t have vital organs or can bleed out. Ogers will simply crush anybody under their bulk Desmons Are corporeal and have all kinds of nonsense to protect them Orcs have a Ridiculous shock resistance so they don’t really care if they get stabbed. The main Point of these formations and Weapons is to Intimidate the foe and incapacitate the enemy which is hard when most of your enemy don’t feel fear and/or pain Humans have they’re own advantages in this world mainly steel faith and gunpowder and they do use formations but they aren’t as strong in this world simply because this world has monsters and magic
Cool looking, really cool looking. Imo, pike wall, unlike spearwall, should still deal damage just as in Rome 2 with pikemen. Spearwall of spearmen should indeed be used to hold the line, not deal damage upon enemy charge. Dwarves with shield castle seem op as hell tho xd
@@FilipMoncrief They should still be taking casualties. No formation is impervious to ranged fire. Less casualties than they would otherwise, but not none at all. That’s completely stupid and makes bringing ranged units against dwarfs pointless.
@@mphylo2296 thats how testudo worked in previous games. Especially when you have dwarven armour. And when they are in such a compact formation, they are a better target for artillery and magic, or just getting outmanouvered. So I don’t think it’s that bad, especially when ranged units in this game are OP to the point where its boring
Really great work! I like the dwarf testudo the best because the troops really come together into a tight formation. I noticed the testudo got really broken up when it was hit by all those arrows though. Is that a hardcoded knockback effect? The arrows should be bouncing off the shields without any knockback IMO. While in testudo I mean I also really liked the Pike Wall demo. Looks like elite units can eventually batter down an unsupported Empire State Troop pike wall, though they take heavy damage in the process. The hollow squares are really cool!
With the testudo I think you should maybe reduce some melee attack as a testudo really is only a good working defensive formation against missiles. This would also balance it out to nt only have advantages (just like in irl). Amazing work though, thumbs up.
Jesus that Dwarf Testudo formation is kinda op 😂 they didn't even have a single damage taken while charging. You need to tone it down a little bit for it to be balance or it's just easy game all day with that one.
The testudo formation just reminds me of turtle formation from 3k for spear guards. Like yah its cool, but its so broken because they take zero damage from ranged even when they were getting pushed apart from all those arrows.
my main complain about warhammer 2 is it's basic unit is way too weak, for combat to be effective, often you end up a all elite stack, after all you cant afford many stack and you can maximize legendary lord perk by doing this. game would be much more fun with useable divers unit rooster.
Not sure I like how the formations just seem to make soldiers unkillable when cav charge a pike wall cav should die not break through like it's no big deal sending men flying 20-50 feet who will them get up like and act like nothing happened also dwarf testudo hit by arrows breaking up the formation is weird enough but then the buff still keeping dwarves exposed to arrows alive is unrealistic... I know I know you can't code it so that the game knows if an arrow hits the shield the armor or the bare flesh of an entity but still... Any way still a cool mod this should be standard in every total war Idk why CA wouldn't include a feature like this. Good work 👍
