Touré Argues About Hip Hop with Bomani Jones and Michael Smith 

These 3 should get together and do this every couple of months

Such an awesome discussion. Came from Bomani's Twitter, I love how Touré is comfortable bringing on dudes who directly disagree with him. 9:20 hearing KRS-One, Black Thought, & Jay-Z for best MC is a damn good mix. 16:30 - nice to hear Bomani mention a similar feeling I have with Lil Wayne who is an All-Time great but yea... I ain't trying to hear that ALL the time. 18:25 - amazing point, "you find complexity to be intriniscally valuable, and I do not."

Luda is so slept on. I’m glad Bomani brought him up. Chris is sooooo good. Also, I love athe Ren shout out.

Toure is literally the reason why I can’t stand the New York bias

I think the fundamental thing being missed about Pac was that he was cranking out tracks at such a high rate it was never about getting people to dive deeper and deeper into the same song, it was about a continuous conversation.

When you talk about duos, you gotta mention Mobb Deep

This was a EXCELLENT conversation on the art form that is Hip Hop from us "OLD HEADS" and how we see it. RESPECT!

LISTENING SUGGESTION: Go back and spend some time with Lupe Fiasco's "Thre Cool". Really get into it. Easily a classic

East Coast, Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, South Scarface, Andre West Tupac, Ice Cube

This was a great intelligent conversation. Thank you @Touré and @DCP_Entertainment👋

Typing this as I go through the episode 1.) Introduction to Hip-Hop - I was born in 1992, so Hip-Hop was a well-established culture/ musical genre/ industry when I came into the world. But my first introduction is easily Ma$e. Feel So Good, and Shiny Suits were everywhere. I remember being on the school bus dancing to this song and the Honey Remix. These two records were game-changers. 2.) Number 1 MC - If we’re talking straight pen game and bars, I’m going Hov 10/10. But I will say, if we were to select one artist to represent what an MC is, this is the prototype/ archetype of an MC; this is the guy who embodies its grassroots and what it became all in one - I’m going, Nas. 3.) Critique of Jay-Z - Bomani is a hater lol. Are there any rap artists selling out stadiums? Let’s be real. 4.) Number 1 MC from the South - Andre 3k 10/10. For both pen game and representation. However, Bomani makes a great point about the lack of solo content from ‘Dre. 5.) Number 1 MC from the West - Kendrick?? Hell NO! Lol. I’m going Snoop, and I will have ‘Pac second. Snoop is the West Coast. I think that’s self-explanatory. 6.) A Critique of Nas - Michael took it there, lol! I’ll tell a quick story. It’s 2016, and I’m on a road trip with the guys, and we decide to do a Versuz. Two artists/ groups, song for song, with a focus on bars only, and make sure the songs were similar in content. Ex- can’t do a club banger to follow up a thought-provoking record within the same round. So I nominate Jay to go up against Big. My boy says no, let’s do Jay & Nas. Long story short, Jay got smoked, lmao. But I realized the matchup wasn’t in Jay’s favor because Jay’s specialty is his wordplay, but Nas is a storyteller, and a well-crafted narrative will always win. But if we were judging off the entire song, Jay would’ve won because, as Toure and Bomani stated, he’s got whack beats. - The funny part after this matchup is we nominated J. Cole to step in the ring with Nas, and man, it was getting ugly for Nas until my boy decided to drop Ether and ruined the fun, lol. 7.) Best Woman MC - Lauryn Hill 10/10. I agree 1000%, but I also give Nicki Minaj the same respect Lauryn Hill has earned within the genre/ culture. 8.) Another Critique of Jay-Z - Bomani is a real-life hater lmao. 9.) The Most Underrated MC - Jadakiss, is only considered Top 5 if you ask somebody from the East Coast, and the conversation needs to be happening nationally. Kiss is one of the best to pick up a pen and a microphone. Styles P is right behind Jadakiss for MC skills and may be ahead, depending on who you ask. Meek Mill is underrated because he deserves the same flowers as Kendrick, Cole, and Drake. LL Cool J is underrated, people only remember the R&B records, but the man is a problem. He was also one of the few artists (maybe the only) from the 80s to have a legitimate career in the 2000s. LL is a pioneer with a track record that speaks for itself. Big Boi does not get the respect he deserves. - More Jay hate, this time coming from Michael. Lol, what is going on here? 10.) Best Duo/ Group - Outkast 10/10 & Tribe 10/10. - Bomani makes a compelling argument for Run-DMC. 11.) Critique of Hip-Hop - Did you guys not listen to the Jay Elec and Jay-Z album? This album is NOI and God Body 5% rhetoric from top to bottom. But still a beautiful critique of the direction of the music, especially not being able to identify the geographic-cultural differences today. 12.) 2Pac - Hip-Hop Jesus is the most accurate description of ‘Pac. His legend is more significant than his physical form. I would love to have more Hip-Hop conversations that exclude ‘Pac because I believe the spectrum is wide enough to do so. 13.) Complexity vs. Simplicity - My problem is that these guys who get crowned as deep or thought-provoking are just surface-level if that. 14.) Death in Hip-Hop - Unless we address gun violence in Hip-Hop, the overall death rate or experience is on par with any other culture, genre, or decade. Michael makes a great point about the coverage Hip-Hop receives, but ultimately, gun violence is the most alarming and tragic aspect. Drug overdoses, freak accidents, etc, are normal. 15.) Do You Still Love It? - I don’t think I do. I think I’m in a scene from Brown Sugar. I’m invested in the foundation, history, untold stories, principles, and theory. Hip-Hop got reduced to music, and its music is now a capitalist tool used to keep the rich richer. Hip-Hop is a way of life to me. And that’s what’s missing. It hurts more when I don’t see artists growing. As Toure said, I’m at a different point in my life. So I get disappointed when I see a guy 40+ with a world of knowledge and an ability to communicate in a way many can’t, and he chooses to talk about the same stuff he spoke about in his 20s. 16.) Album Recommendations - Im about to tune in to Stakes is High right now. - Mixtape Era Rap is PEAK Hip-Hop for me. LimeWire/ DatPiff. Those were the days. 17.) Impact of Southern Rap - Toure, please do different regional and age iterations of this SAME conversation. Keep the questions, and change the intellectual minds speaking on these topics. - Chill out; Tariq Nasheed will not like the West Indian culture comments you three are making; lmao! - Wait, Bomani tied that point very, very well. - Dart! Lmaoo. Overall, a beautiful conversation on Hip-Hop culture, and you three articulated yourselves perfectly. This is where our discussions on HIp-Hop should go because it is deep and complex enough to be studied and analyzed at the highest level. Too often, we have consumers or casuals speaking on Hip-Hop, and it does not do it any justice.

No one ever, ever mentions Guru from "Gangstarr" or Bahamadia in their top ten....But those two will always be my top two. Back when I worked in radio, I had the chance to meet Guru and actually tell him that "Moment of Truth" was my favorite. He said it was his too.

This is my favorite video on RU-vid right now. I was born in 85... this is a conversation by, between, and for my tribe

Great convo man. It was a good example of passionate brothas debating, agreeing, and disagreeing in an engaging way. It enlightens. Thanks! I grew up in a southern super sanctified semi-cult church. And we were FORBIDDEN to listen to any kind of wordly demon music. (were told we'd burn in hell, if we did)) lol. As young oppressed kids...we snuck and listened to the radio one day and LL Cool J's "I Need Love" was playing. It changed my musical life! #WhenIFellInLoveWithHipHop #ShoutOutToMemphisMusicTooThough

Met some folks in Tanazania that told me they learned to speak English listening to 2pac. Changed my opinion of Pac as a rapper. Made me appreciate the simplicity and directness of his lyrics.

I trust no one that thinks Jay-Z is the best MC of all time. Period.

Underrated in terms of just this conversation...Lupe. When all is said and done he will have an incredible impact on the culture touching every level of fandom...especially with his outreach and purposful dive into drill concurrently as he is in Ivy league schools teaching

Loved this music convo. Wouldn't mind seeing another one

Ice Cube said to NaS on his 'The Bridge' podcast, "Back then we were doing our penmanship, then you came and put it in Cursive". Highest compliments from 1 of Hip-Hop GOATS 🐐!

Grand Puba is slept on, and has one of the illest flows.

Redman and AZ are most slept on!!!

Love or dislike them or their takes. This is intelligent convo about hip hop at 50! I want more from these three on music, sports, politics and social commentary!

Toure putting on for JayZ while rockin a Kaepernick jersey is nasty work

Underrated: Phonte, Pharoahe Monch, Aesop Rock

I'm 20 mins in and I declare Bomani the winner of the debate lol. He gave DJ Paul & Juicy J their proper credit for impact of the sound of hip hop. 🐐🐐

I come from the same place as Touré in terms of a moment where I felt I saw myself in hip-hop with the advent of De La but, even as a fellow Black egghead/ wannabe intellectual, I still diverge with him on his fixation with complexity. Complexity ≠ better or necessarily great. But maybe he’s actually using complexity as a synonym for poetic in which case I could entertain an argument. Also, I bet if Touré went back and actually listened to those Pac albums now, especially Me Against the World and All Eyez On Me, he might have a revelation re: how good a pure MC he actually was.

I thoroughly enjoyed this. Thanks fellas 🤘🏾

Any discussion on Hip Hops 50th without discussing all the elements isn’t a conversation about Hip Hop. Its a conversation about rap culture….

Thank y'all for this. I needed this while cleaning the house on a Sunday morning! 🙏🏿🙏🏿

Man this was great! I wish this was a monthly podcast!

Nas #1 ….Just dropped 5 dope joints in the last 3 years in his late 40’s .. like what are we talking bout??

This was dope. Thanks for this conversation, gentlemen.

Need more of these convos

The 2Pac slander from Toure(ttes) is mind-numbing

The show I never realized I needed to watch! This was so dope, I’m surprised I didn’t hear certain names like Pun or AZ. ✌🏽❤️

This discussion is epic! ✊🏾💪🏾🔥

This is a fantastic conversation. Fantastic.

46:06 Regardless of the 2Pac mythology & drama that distract and even inflate his legacy, DEAR MOMMA exists, so he artistry can not be denied.

love these discussions

“If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.” Complexity does demonstrate skill. Simplicity demonstrates mastery.

As an African-American born in 1969 who never liked enough rap to become a regular connoisseur, I still enjoy listening to three intellectuals provide a serious sociopolitical context to art. As an aside, I wonder if Brother Jones’ age is a prime reason why he thinks that Purple Rain is Prince’s best work when many of us who were Prince fans since 1978 think that other albums are superior to Purple Rain. Regardless, this is an insightful discussion.

Great Conversation🔥🔥🔥🔥 Peace...😎

Intelligent and insightful conversation. Appreciated it. Thank you guys

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾great conversation. Even the last ten minutes is informative and entertaining.

Great conversation fellas

Great great talk,guys

There was such a dope flow to this conversation.

These are my type of conversations

My first hip hop memory. Cold crush brothers came to my block and threw a jam in the park. Hooked the equipment up to the street lamp at dusk. They had lights. I loved the music but it was totally amazing when they started rhyming. Nobody expected it. My heart started beating fast I, started screaming them the DJ said make some noise. The next day me and my brother made up our first rhyme

This was a dope ass convo about 50 years in hip-hop and here's to many more! 🍻 🥂

Bomani is right about 400 Degrees whole album is FIRE! Definitely slept on, Fresh was in a zone Run For It!, Ghetto Children, U.P.T. & Rich Niggaz WHOA!

Been waiting on this Episode

I’m really enjoying this conversation

I enjoyed this ❤

Mc Ren solo catalog was fire!

I legit needed 2 or 3 more hours of this, because it's absolutely fascinating. I don't agree with everything (no one should), but I found the perspectives and knowledge absolutely necessary and intriguing. I love this. (And Michael Smith was correct: Gotta do another one of these, but with some West Coast cats.)

Bomani, I totally agree with you. I really don’t mess with those New York dudes. I love East Coast hip-hop, but I start hating the way they felt like they were better than anybody and now they are just a sad and old I mean Funkmaster Flex is going to still be on the radio at 75 yrs old Melly Mel had a nerve the thing, he could do a diss track east coast dudes. When you’re talking about the south and putting us down you’re talking about your own great grandmother or great grandfather who came from the south. but I love this conversation. I hope you do more of these with different people. 1:17:27

Being from Los Angeles and born in the 70's, my earliest memory is going to swapmeets to get cassettes of Ice-T, DOC, Kid Frost, Egyptian Lover, Cube, Eazy and NWA.

In the group conversation there was no mention of Little Brother!

Shout out to Bomani for the Question Mark Asylum reference. I’m not even from DC but Hey Look Away still slaps.

Amezing ❤❤❤👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

This debate was everything!

How an artist makes u feel is more important than complexity

I love the conversation, even though I disagree with do many of the takes . I wish I was a part of it myself .

Dope conversation

These dudes need to get together often and do this.....really enjoyed it

Man I wish I could have been part of this conversation.

Mike nailed it w ins deck and black thought. Soooo underrated

these dudes are HILARIOUS

Let me stop commenting.. this is an absolute treat.

Nas is the best rapper I’ve ever heard. Lyricism. Introspection. Storytelling. Subject matter. Longevity. Catalogue. Concepts. Features. Flow. Nobody is better.

Nasir Jones is the greatest! He checks all of the boxes: bars, storytelling, classic albums, sold out show at Madison Square Garden, 4 hot records in the last 5 years and he beat Jay in their battle. He’s the greatest poet of our time.

Man I luv a good Hip Hop debate...this is freaKin Good 👍🏽 ..been N2 this gul since Krush Groove '85

Compelling convo, as expected. Part of the reason Jay does all those collaborative tours is the nature of his deal w/ Live Nation

Thanks Fred the contribution to 50 year Anniversary. This was a wild one😂. 3 journalists, 2 who were late to the party by really being introduced to Hip Hop by Outkast and Dr. Dre and Tribe. Great points made on simplicity vs complexity- great choices for album recommendations- on mentions of duos there was no mention of Mobb Deep/that was sloppy- even though there are huge bias in their discussion, I did like so e if they POV's

Being a 54 year old man from Brooklyn my first memory was "Rappers Delight", but my solidified moment was going to see Biz Markie at the Albie Square mall as a teenager....wow

I love how relatable this conversation is because it perfectly shows the difference between a hip hop head and casual hip hop listeners. Nolan I bringing up 400 degrees speaks to my soul because it’s one of my top 5 personal favorite albums. As a southerner, we are not that impressed with overly complex lyrics

I appreciated the acknowledgement of the Caribbean influence regarding the east coast zeitgeist of hip-hop. When I was younger, I used to spend a season in hip-hop and then a season in reggae/dancehall before I figured out how to live in both spaces at the same time growing up as a Jamaican kid. I enjoyed the conversation.

great great convo!

Madlib s The Unseen, one of my top 5 favorite albums. A beautiful moment in time.

Man that was a dope conversation, like Bo said he toure had two dude from west coast or midwest its a total different convo.

Bomani throwing shots at Hov and Nas is hilarious 😂😂😂😂

Toure made an excellent point about where we listen to music. Headphones in NYC (and when you are younger), cars for alot of the rest of us. Damn that was a dope observation. As a Detroiter i loved some Three 6 Mafia growing up, but in NY they wasnt playing that shit at all.

I love to hear an intelligible convo about hip hop with no bias. I hate to see these roc nation powered podcasts that think Jay is above critique smh

Good work, Gentlemen

Born in '82, Hip Hop has been a part of my life as long as I can remember. I'm right on the same wavelength with Michael.... Black Thought is my favorite MC of ALL TIME, with 3 Stacks up there too. When I was 4, I wanted to BE DMC 😂😅

I need to be on this show. I could bring a dope perspective on a few levels...

Lauryn. Hill. That name. That legacy. She broke the mold on so many levels. The fact that she only released one full studio album makes her an enigma. "The Miseducation..." said everything that needed to be said. Period.

You can not have a hip hop debate with people born in the 80s … they weren’t around to know the evolution…another older guest would have gave the conversation more balance … come on he was introduced to hip hop by the chronic and deep cover … At least Toure was with the birth of mainstream rap with rappers delight

RAKIM enough said

1:22:50 I'm from DC. Go Go was our thing. We were too busy partying to everything while also partying to our Go Go. Also DC is big on Jazz as well. In DC, we were more so fans and collectors than creators. We admired all of the HIP HOP from everywhere. I think that's why the HIP HOP Museum is here.

I fucking love intellectual hip hop conversations! This was dope!

This was dope. Hope this becomes a monthly series with these 3. 3 Stacks can't be top anything solo though. He's incredible, but he doesn't meet the requirement in having never dropped a single solo album. He's also not a better rapper/emcee than Nas. Easier to spit bars with a partner vs. carrying albums by yourself. Also easier to drop one guest feature every 2 yrs or so.

Im 61 and rappers delight was my best ...love Snoop and everything else was R,&B ...my brothers are 3 yrs younger tan me and the middle one 3 yrs younger than him so its their music and i feel lost ...i have enjoyed this episode and got so much info ...❤

My one album is Sticky Fingaz the Autobiography of Kirk Jones... Best concept album of all time. Yep I said it.

This was excellent! The DMV is more R&B/Jazzy/ Go-Gothan straight hip-hop.

Nas is the goat and its not close. Illmatic - all the way to Magic 2 and 5 albums in the last 3 years. All quality too.

Great conversation! I just would have liked to hear more discussion including the mid west and uncle Luke and also how y'all talk about the west coast and snoop and too $hort not come up?

Slept on: Phonte Coleman. And Common, as Resurrection is likely my favorite HipHop album ever...with the best combination of beats, rhymes and scratches (Mr Sinista's cuts on this album were as clean as any I've heard on one album).

When they started talking about MC Ren being slept on I literally thought if anyone is slept on is Inspector Deck.😂 His inteo versus for triumph is one of the best verses ever. I'm glad someone mentioned him.