Nissan 1400/1200 didn't have a ladder chassis it was monocoque or semi-monocoque, it was rear wheel drive. Indestructible , simple, reliable and cheap to run and maintain. The 1200's had drum brakes in front which was the worst you can imagine. The cab was very small for the 1.8m male but you could squeeze in. From that same era I can remember the 1200 Mazda and Toyota. My father had a 3/4 ton Toyota Corona 1965 bakkie with a 1500 engine later upgraded to 18R 2l. There were a Corona Mk2 with a1900 engine also both monocoque designs built from modified Corona cars. From that era I can also remember the legendary Peugeot 404 pickup, rear wheel drive. Then there were El Camino, Ranchero, Volkswagen Kombi and Mercedes Ponton pickup trucks. These were all modified from cars models. In those days before the Hilux the serious bakkies were the Ford F and Chev C10 Custom, International Harvester Pickup and probably many more that I don't remember. There is a huge need for a small bakkie especially for cities where you need to get into small spaces. Many loads are light in weight but big in volume or just to heavy to put into a panel van by hand.
I work for a large construction company. We buy the NP 200's for our formen and artisans. We use them like wheelbarrows... they are cheap and we work them into the ground. It's sad that there's going to be no replacement.
Remember Toyota had a 1200 Toyota bakkie as well...I had one (inherited from my father...more handed down) which served me very well...until stolen from ISCOR parking in 1993!!! It was basic but it ran very well and also very light on fuel!
I had overloaded a Chev UTE bakkie at least once for a short trip. Front wheel drive is not a problem if the bulk of the load is loaded in front of the rear axle. But do not load on or to the back of the axle.
I had a bantam in the late nineties and early 2000's, was a good dependable work horse, over 500k kms. I then got a Fiat Strada x space currently on 310k kms, also a gem of a bakkie. Can't understand why all the manufacturers don't offer new 3/4 ton bakkies like they used to. We all know they would sell like hot cakes. .
I also had a Mazda and Opel bakkie around 2000 and they were great especially when single and in the trade I was then. BUT once you switch over to a van especially when in a trade you realise the europeans are unto something… your load is out of the rain, itchy fingers and entry level is convenient for loading. Think 1/2ton bakkies was nice while it was our only option, but think we have moved on. Mho
I think a big reason for half tonners going extinct is that delivery and courier services are becoming much more extensive and ubiquitous. Most people don't need a bakkie to collect furniture, appliances and other large items on occasion anymore.
I've had a NP200 on a farm with a large dirt for 12 years and I have been very happy and here are my thoughts. 1 The tyres are too small. 2 It is not suited to dust roads with dust coming in through the ventilation when you open a window which clogs up the doors. 3 Front wheel drive is not the issue as the commentator claimed. 4 The way the front of the bin folds into the cab allowing longer lengths to be loaded while giving a cab and a quarter is genuis.
My first company cars in 2005 were two Nissan 1400s, then four Bantams, a Nissan Np200, one Opel Corsar utility then three Chev Corsar Utility vans and now we only have two Chevrolet Viva utility vans. That's 12 half tone cars between 2005 and 2017. That's how much we need these cars as small companies. We also do a lot of gravel road. We were looking to replace the Chev Viva vans with the Nissan Np200 next year, now we're out choice. I really don't understand the reason behind every manufacturer stopping producing them. Here in Swaziland they were bought left right and centre. Even if I go to South Africa, I see a lot of them on the roads. One thing I fear about the Toyota Quest based half tone van is the front suspension. You need bakkie based control arms for that not sedan control arms. Otherwise it would fail.
Correction Ciro... the 1400 or Champ did not have a ladder chassis. It was from day one a unibody vehicle. I still drive a Rocam Bantam. Still going strong with regular services. It's a basic, entry model. No aircon, no radio (yup, still no radio😂), no electric windows/locks...
@@Carscoza Ciro, there's another bakkie you missed .. what about the Suzuki Carry? We seem to forget about it. It is very basic, it is rear wheel drive, fuel efficient with the 1.2 engine and Suzuki reliability. It is soon going to be the "loner" in the segment. Another bakkie from Brazil is the Ford Courier... a pick up very similar to our Bantam, it even used the Rocam 🙄 engine!! You'll need to search "Ford Brasilia Courier".
I still have my 2004 Ford Bantam 1.6ixlt rocam )From brand new and this was a very strong robust strong bakkie why its was not continued is still a wonder to me.
the reason Toyota SA did not go ahead was because of its commitment to meet export demand for the Hilux & Fortuner..........the Prospecton plant didn't have another line available........
My 2009 Corsa Utility 1400 is still going strong. 89000km. I am constantly been approached by the public and been asked if I want to sell it. I'm sad this 1/2 ton market has come to an end as I would purchase a 1/2 ton bakkie again if it was a Toyota or GM product.
Had a fiat strada 1.2, it was a gem, and died at 360 000km, I once loaded two pool tables from Pretoria to Soweto, look it felt the load which was 800kg per table but was reliable.
The stallion was my transport to school in the early 2000s and the description of matchbox was accurate, loved it as the venture though with the early crossover vibe
The truth is; America drops the licensing on larger bakkies, thus the bigger the cheaper. All the manufacturers are now following the trend. I had a NP 200 for a company vehicle. It was absolute magic. I loved it to bits. The next problem is, they price the half tons out of the market.
Mentioning the Toyota Stallion gave me PTSD! One of the worst cars I've ever driven. The worst seating position and ride ever, the thing gave be backache at the age of 25! There was nowhere to put anything, stuff just slid around. I once got stuck in half an inch of beach sand, trying to do a three-point-turn in a cul-de-sac. The back was so light, and the chassis so flexible, that it just spun a wheel and went nowhere! Oh, and it smelled of feet, there was always one of my guys' wellies under the seat. Geez, I hated that thing. Probably still going though, 25 years later!
I think a Corolla Quest bakkie would have been really good even though it's financially difficult for Toyota to produce them, seeing the footage of the prototype gave me hope when I first saw it but I don't think it'll come into fruition sadly
Thank you Ciro, for the very informative video... While I find it a shame that the half tonner bakkie is a dying breed, it is true that there is almost nothing a "compact" SUV cannot do that a half ton bakkie used to do, except maybe load a 1.8m high fridge, some pig dung for the garden, or so... Well, I suppose if you really wanted to load half a ton of pig dung in the back of your SUV you could, if you are keen to live with the smell afterwards - lol. Fact is, for the most part, whatever else you would load on a Ford Bantam, now also goes into the back of a Rav4 for instance. Just throw the rear seats down and you have a pretty impressive load bay with a canopy to boot! Add to that, the ever practical roof racks, which you can use to load your surfboards on, if you have the cross members. In fact, in the case of the RAV4; with the rear seats folded, it's rear space is considerably longer than a Hilux Double Cab. I know, I had a Hilux double cab (which was stolen out of a "secure", booth controlled, mall parking, after just 2 months of ownership)! I decided, if they want these Hilux double cabs so badly, then they must keep them. I will never own a Hilux or even a Fortuner again. I got myself a RAV4 (AWD) with a tow hitch instead and have never looked back! It can do all the weekend jobs and carry the entire family on long trips in absolute comfort! An incredible all rounder! There is no need for a weekend car AND a half ton bakkie any more! The SUV (especially with a tow hitch) does it all! And that is (unfortunately for the half ton bakkie (and sedan)) the simple and perhaps somewhat sad reality.
@@michaelwiebe4282 thats true! So yeah that could be the main reason but I definitely feel like they could get more sales of that model in SA in a month than the UK in a year lol.
The simplest solution to building a half ton bakkie would be to stick a short double cab bed on a shortened single cab chassis. That would be easier to develop and manufacture, plus you get ladder frame robustness and rear-wheel drive while sharing parts with the larger bakkies.
Very Informative and just as interesting.We (Soweto) referred to the Stallion as ikirievai (wheelbarrow). That tag also adhered quite well to cling onto the Toyota Venture marques. Fascinating video. Thznks Cars.coza.
Did you guys notice the Toyota Cressida behind the flatbed truck carrying the Quest Bakkie?. The Cressida being rear wheel drive (If I am not mistaken) would be a great base for a half ton bakkie with some tweaks for modern times.
The Cressida's great-great-great-grandfather was the late 60s to early 70s Corona Mark II and Toyota sold a bakkie version of it back then. Last saw one about a year ago.
It is true, but we need to have a bakkie that can be used as that, True it needs to be a bit tough and reliable. I do agree it also needs to be prise wise, because we are flooded with big bakkies at reasonable pricing, A well priced small bakkie, versitile and good looking with all the features will be a yes in my openion. a good town runner that we can use as a fun weekend vehicle for all the outdoor activities, Thank you was doing alot of research in this segment.
Ciro, I recall the podcast interview you did with that German lady from VWSA and, if I can recall correctly, she said that they are considering bringing in a 3/4 ton bakkie some time in the future. Now would be the perfect time for a VW to enter the market with one considering there's only the NP200 currently on offer.
A trivial issue on the NP200 is the front wipers that wipe the wrong way. It just erks me. There was a predecessor to the Toyota Stallion known as the TUV, I believe. But they were very basic. I loved my Bantam. Mine still had the old style bench seat.
Honestly I don't think it's a concern having a FWD 1/2 ton bakkie ,it's meant for light work in the first place. Secondly after owning 3 and now a vw Caddy I would never consider a bakkie because a Caddy does everything a 1/2 does except loading from a vertical position. So maybe it's because we have vans that took the place of bakkies?
The Nissan 1400 was a unibody design, no separate chassis. FWD is not the disadvantage that most people think it is in a bakkie. Especially if you got long travel suspension and good ground clearance. The old Strada is a good example and probably the reason why the new one is the best selling vehicle in South America with probably even worse roads than what we got here in SA... Stellatis is about to make a massive mistake to make the Landtrek here. They should look at their Brazilian side and then just decide whether they want a 1 ton Toro or a 3/4 ton Strada. They can even decide whether to call it a Ram or a Fiat...
Not enough profit for the manufacturers here for small bakkies. It's as simple as that. Feel like yesterday bakkies cost under R300k. Now they cost R1m plus
The Toyota Stallion is basically a renamed Toyota Kijang/Tamaraw, which is one of the most popular vehicles ever sold in South East Asia. Interestingly the replacement for the pickup version was just released this 2024 and is called the Hilux Champ. A lot of these rugged South East Asia market vehicles would be perfect for South Africa.
If I remember correctly Toyota had a half ton bakkie at the same time as the Datsun 1400. What we need is the Hyundai bakkie available in USA, this is a small double cab and probably half ton, I would actually consider buying this bakkie.
What S.A need is a Half ton rear wheel drive bakkie preferably a toyota would be choice but who ever decides to do a rear wheel drive half ton would make a success especially with the economic crisis not everyone can afford a big bakkie with all the maintenance that comes with a bigger bakkie.
I think a Supra/Z4 type collaboration would solve alot of the manufacturing and R/D issues they are facing when considering this venture. The only question is who to collaborate with?
My apologies if this sounds harsh but you really ought to redo this episode. With a bit of deeper research you will find that it would indeed make a little goldmine for whichever manufacturer chooses to enter the half ton bakkie market. Front wheel drive or not has nothing to do with it. On a snow covered road a front wheel drive van is much more controllable than a rear wheel drive. Same applies to a gravel road. The REAL reason why manufacturers are not entering new models in this segment is quite simply SAFETY. All the existing and previous models were literal death traps in a serious accident. The stallion was a crudely put together affair with little regard for occupant safety. The rest were all cut up versions of saloon cars, all unibody without the even if meagre built in strength of the original car it got derived from. Once you destroy the original well designed structure there is not much left to protect the occupants and so the manufacturers are simply scared of these type of developments. Incidentally your statement that the Nissan 1400 was not a unibody is just nonsense. Please go and have a look at one. Good luck with finding that ladder frame or any chassis for that matter. It was noting more than a hacked up Datsun 1200 of the 70's with an abysmal safety record throughout it's entire life. Probably the worst thing with 4 wheels on SA roads, safety wise, especially later in its life. A visit to a scrapyard or two will provide you with all the evidence you may need as to just how bad of death trap a half ton bakkie is. Times have changed, the SA market is crying out for a selection of the commonly available in Europe 1/2 to 3/4 ton vans. Anything on board is safely locked away out of sight and reach of criminals and they are super efficient and SAFE. My personal favourite would be the fantastic Mercedes Citan.
Renault refused to tell me when the new Duster is coming out. Any idea? I think there will be a come back for half tonners due to the rising fuel costs.
I bought a new 2013 chev utility sport1.4. Bought it to keep it 100k km after 10 yrs . I liked the looks but the vehicle is not what it seems to be. I called it a girls bakkie. So glad I traded it in. Dont miss it at all, and when i see one on the road, I think to myself "shame". I had an F1300 when less flush, then a golf caddy, rebuilt to 1800, a "beast" ( had to mod the brakes to help it stop) . My dad recently gave me his F1300, i wouldn't swap it for any opel/chev utility. As far as to he Dacia is concerned i wouldnt even talk about that.
What is stopping them from bringing the H i- Ace bakkie back into production. It's a heavily proven concept that lasted and was reliable. I suspect that the problem comes at the cost of the current environmental challenges on new production vehicles that makes the cost of a continued 1/2 ton model a problem. Then our roads are not suited for these low ground clearances. There are many of the old models still on the road. The reality is that our economy needs the Hi Ace back.
On a different note: there were rumours about a year ago that the Chevrolet UTE would be made as a double cab in Brazil. Does anybody have any info on that subject?
Good people. Please assist here. I wanna make a bakkie purchase but all seem to be diesel driven. So I wanna ask is diesel engine good as a daily drive, I normally do about 20 to 35km a day and very occasional long trips. Please assist people
I would appreciate a corolla bakkie..that thing looks sick.Maybe they should have tried the Ke70 platform when the 1400 came out.We would have gotten our small truck just like the F13.
@10:30. I really beg to differ. This is because its only of recent times that Toyotas look the same across the world. There’s still different variations of the same name plated car in different parts of the world. If we look at how eager South Africans would be to drive a a 1/2 ton bakkie, the recovery from tooling would be rapid. I know this is just my opinion, but I can put my money on this. Regards, Demaine Naidoo
Did Nissan give an actual reason for this because People were still out here buying them. I don't think they can play the card of "it wasn't selling enough" because commercial and personal sales were still through the roof, and the "it's outdated" card can't be played too, I think.