This is why my grandpa always said "never buy the first few years of a new vehicle, regardless of who makes it. Let everyone else find the weak points". 😂
Not bad advice, but this isn't a design problem so much as a manufacturing problem. They can't design an engine to withstand random amounts of randomly sized debris in random places throughout your engine block. 😂
@@brandonroeder2461 but its still a problem. And since I didn't run out and buy a tundra I don't have to deal with it. Thats the point. Its not limited to design flaws but also manufacturing processes.
Yet those Toyota Cultists will whine and complain about every other car. It's amazing how often I'm told how unreliable my Fords are when they give me zero issues. Including a 04 Expedition with 338K. That old girl would start and run like a top every single day with ice cold factory AC, and she looked good while doing it.
@@cars654You can count Toyota's massive failures on one hand. GM's are innumerable. For every one GM product that makes it to 200k miles, there are a hundred Toyotas that have made it past the 400k mile mark. My work vehicle is an '04 Tahoe with 310k on the original engine and transmission. It's definitely one of GM's most reliable models... but it's still a giant piece of sh*t, and I'd still much rather have to rely on a Toyota product. Toyotas, overall, are superior to GM vehicles by just about every conceivable metric.
@@HenrikHolmesson Had my groceries delivered by this chick in a yukon. She couldnt leave because her shifter linkage fell apart in my driveway....lol. Go GM
@@HenrikHolmessonhave 2 friends that have newer Silverados one just had the engine replaced and the other a transmission both only had less than 70k miles and my cousin had a newer Yukon with the same drive train with 60k I told her to get rid of it before it costs her money
It's not machining debrees. It's probably the connecting rod bearing design. They are known to go out faster with turbos. Ford had the same issues when changing the 2.0 to a 2.0 Ecoboost. Ford still has issues with them not making it to warranty. The 1.5's and lower L iter engines all had this issue with Ford and many other issues. The 3.5 from Toyota also has fuel rail and transmission issues they will need to fix. If they ain't careful they will be right up with Ford in recalls amd spending 2 billion a year because they are crap.
Doesn't make sense. They're isn't anything on the block when that work gets done. They get cleaned in different baths. Machining debris is like what you get trying to port a head while its on. I dunno. Doesn't make sense to me.
@paulfeasal6024 This seems no different than alot of customers in numerous markets. Trying to cheap out on the important stuff that probably wouldn't have cost that much more to just do right in the first place. Spend a Billion to save 100k. 😂
Now we can say that Toyota is a true American manufacturer, since they unlocked the "build a truck that grenades itself in under 10k miles" achievement.
@@clapclapscream Right now they are finding every excuse not to take in a truck that has a grenaded engine. Toyota dropped the ball hard on this both during manufacturing and after sale care.
Traded in a lemon Tacoma... (we called it the Lemona 🍋) for an F150 5.0. This F150 is at 89k with zero issues since new. That Tacoma proved to me how far Toyota will go to NOT acknowledge a problem. Getting them to stand behind their warranty was an absolute struggle. Someone once said Toyota is Japanese for "Class Action Lawsuit... so true. All those rusted out frames Toyota had to replace years ago? Toyota finally stepped up to the plate after multiple class action lawsuits. People act like Toyota cares about them... lol, what a joke. Toyota just moved their Tacoma production to Mexico... yet they are asking even MORE for the truck while the consumer is getting LESS. Stop acting like the people who think Subaru is all about peace and love ✌🏾... these are companies trying to make the largest profit possible. 😅
@@WillSwingem KIA was full of crap, we had one that had never missed an oil change, and at 50k miles, it was burning a full quart between oil changes. They also sent us a letter that said the manual had a "misprint" on how often the oil should be changed.. We traded that POS in for a Honda, before the news got out they were all going to blow up.
I work in assembly and you'd be surprised how often we'd have down time or have to remake "finished" production due to either something as simple as a faulty tool on one job (out of over a hundred jobs), or because management is trying to speed up production by bypassing steps & processes. Even after they're repeatedly warned by experienced technicians, they will ignore the inevitable problem, hoping that it occurs on another shift's watch. Then, when it finally fails and we are down for hours, they do whatever it takes to get back running (i.e. not "fixing" the problem, just getting us running again). It's like getting multiple leaks in your roof and you keep putting buckets around to catch the drips instead of fixing the roof.
The worst part is their warranty strategies on this.. Your mechanic need to strip the engine down to remove and send the problematic part. idk about most people but i don't want my under 20k engine to be rebuilt, without mentioning the skill of your mechanic will greatly influence the reability of your new truck for years now
Not only that, but imagine the time it is going to take for the labor. And if with the number of vehicles affected, imagine the wait time on parts. On top of the backlog of other vehicles that are ahead of you for the same exact issue. You could be waiting MONTHS.
@@tonycj7860probably around 3 days per vehicle it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to clean an oil pan and replace the main seals it’s getting into it which makes it hard
Most Tundra's old or new you have to remove the cab to remove the engine. Of course its not a problem with older Tundra's as their engines were pretty much bullet proof. But they have a serious problem with the turbo engines. Some Toyota dealer mechanics are quitting because of the increased work load repairing these defective engines. They will not have a problem finding a new job, good mechanics are in short supply !
Same shit with the kia motors. Mine was just replaced at 117k for the same reason! Good motor design but theyre too busy with quantity over quality and hipe most people arent frugal and make them hold thier end of the deal when the rod bearing goes due to oil starvation!@franksmythe6969
What are you thoughts on it only applying to the non-hybrid models? I'm thinking those would have the same issue they just didn't hit the recall due to not losing all power because of the hybrid motor.
Remember.. in the Movie FIGHT CLUB, when he's explaining, Law Suit ratio vs Death or injury, if it's worth doing a official Recall.. Once they have agreed to bite the bullet and declare a Recall is needed.. like the Dude (Technician) said it's a higher number..
Whether it's debris or not it's still bad design. Design goes beyond just the physical product that's made, but also the processes and procedures used to make them. If their process created debris that was still in the engine after it was complete, that's poor design.
The reason why there is machine debris is because toyota started to use less water and less solvents to clean the engines before assembly. It was more green, lol.
So for those who dont know, blocks are cast in sand and often with styrofoam acting as a part of the mold as well. Once cast they cool down get the sand bits vibrated off and some simple cleaning, then on to machining where the parts like bearings and all the threaded holes are machined in, this leaves tons of chips and some sand from casting. They use to blast cleaning solution through every passage something that took a few min per block to hook up and run through the giant dishwasher. Accountants saw this as a labor intensive step and decided just to toss them in the industrial dishwasher without directly cleaning the oil and coolant passages. This is what cause all those kia engines to blow up. And now toyota of all companies are doing that toxic cheap trait
The irony in this situation is quite striking given Toyota's history with the Toyota Production System (TPS). TPS is renowned for its emphasis on quality, continuous improvement, and the elimination of waste. It’s ironic that a company which pioneered such meticulous standards in manufacturing is now facing issues due to cost-cutting measures that directly contradict those principles. The decision to skip a critical cleaning step to save labor costs leading to significant quality failures, is a big departure from the core values that made Toyota a benchmark in the industry.
So, a company that has been building reliable engines for longer than I have been alive, suddenly forgets how to properly clean a block after the casting process. This is why you NEVER believe the official story.
@@LewisTheFly888I like watching videos of people in places like Pakistan machining stuff on the side of the street with a dirt floor and strategically bent bit of metal to substitute as measuring calipers. Maybe that’s where the engines are getting done now
It's a great truck, I've owned six over the last 27 years and this is my favorite. If they fix the issue on recall I'm fine, I'm not going to worry about it. Fantastic truck.
imagine being stranded on the side of the road because your new Toyota's engine blew up just for the emergency exit door of a Boeing 737 MAX to come crashing down and hit your car
@@jesusisking8502 it's encumbered by too many requirements and restrictions while having to produce about the same power as 100 of the primitive model T engines.
@ThinkingCrimson or just switch to newer technology and switch to an EV magnetic engine that has no friction and has more torque, and save money on bs fuel prices going up, lol
Not anymore .. their dealers are more crooks than Toyota itself. If you bring your car for an issue, they will say "its totally normal," to get you going until the warranty runs out !! My brother Rav4 had a battery draining issue due to their faulty DCM software that was not cutting off the power after turning it off the engine. He took it 1st time last year .. it was normal for them while under the warranty.. Last month, when he ran out from the warranty ... with degraded battery .They said they have to upgrade dcm software and quoted him for $280 for ten minutes of work.
They dont, they listen to bad media coverage. Thats why this wasnt adressed until it got traction on the internet even though the trucks have been blowing themselves up for a year already.
Always the exact same bearing fails? It could be debris that is occurring on a specific drill path leading to this bearing. Some drill/CNC/port not getting properly flushed or worse keeping debris in that port/spot. Manufacturing has so many details that can get missed when whipping by MBA coin changers going on.
The engines are identical, from different CNC machines in different plants. The flaw is therefore identical across every engine. Why you have to see a conspiracy in everything, I don't know.
I know several guys who have been in the hot seat trying to get a million dollar engine block cleaning machine to work right (I live in Michigan). The struggle is real. More of a problem with heavy duty trucks honestly though.
I’ve been an automotive technician for over 21 years. I work for a luxury European brand. A few years ago we started having machining debris issues, causing engine damage. In fact we still are dealing with it, though now it’s causing cooling system issues. I have it on very good authority, that other manufacturers have been dealing with this issue as well. In fact this is the first I’ve heard of the issue with Toyota and before you even stated what it was I was thinking to myself “machining debris.” I’ve heard the reason this all started and why it’s affecting multiple brands is because of new environmental rules/laws that pushed auto makers to conserve water and reduce harsh chemical usage. This resulted in reduced and or less effective cleaning after the machining processes. Don’t get me wrong, the new law is a noble goal, but until this issue gets sorted, I’m quite positive that all the failing engines, clogged cooling systems, and other unintended consequences are likely doing far more harm to the environment then the old way was. Assuming they can get this cleaning/flushing debris removal issue solved while still conserving water and reducing chemicals, then that’s good. I hope they can do that, but if my brand is any indicator, I ain’t gonna hold my breath.
What? Unintended consequences for a decision that is supposed to be a feel good, yet superfluous act? That's never happened before. well, I'm just shocked!
This is a direct result of government interference, forcing manufacturers to rush into new designs and technology before they are ready!! We all just sit back and let the government tell us what to purchase with our hard earned money!! Since when was this ever a good idea! Too much government....butt out!! Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦
At least Toyota claims this is what’s causing the issue. I’ve read about 2024 models experiencing the same problem so expect this recall will expand. Toyotas quality as of late has been disappointing.
This is a great video to send my X in answer to her suggestion “Why don’t you just go buy a new vehicle instead of fixing your old cars?” New cars have their own problems which prevent them becoming old cars!
Why buy new when you can install an Edison Motors HEV pickup upgrade kit--AWD, of course!--into a 1972 Ford F100 with a solid body but a worn-out drivetrain and have something beautiful that can pull anything.
Toyota: Defect causing actual physical recall Media: No coverage whatsoever. Tesla: Recall in form of 10 minute software update via wifi Media: Massive amounts of Elon/ Tesla hit pieces
yep, at that time the coolant systems for the machining where not even close to what we have now, this story about debirs is total BS, is a design problem in combination with going cheap on the sand molds.
Making a V6 do the work of a V8 what I mean making same route and HP as a V8 alot of stress on the V6 that's why they failing it high RPM making that kinda power from a V6 comes at a cost in the long run
@@slabbusterrtr7690Literally the basics of turboing any car. Unfortunately its a 360 win for manufactures and government. Car gets better emissions, better performance and dies quicker so they can get you paying that car note more.
Kia and Hyundai said the same thing about their 2.4 liter engines that were coming in with the #3 rod sticking out the side of them. It eventually ended up as a recall and that was their official story was “machining debris” which had wiped out that particular bearing. Nobody at the dealers that had taken one of those engines apart believed that.
Don’t spread misinformation. Early on, we had to disassemble and inspect for a cause before the recall was launched. Definitely debris from the U.S. manufacturing facility that did not properly flush the block and oil galleries.
@@lrich8181 Correct. Only very early on did the district service reps require a teardown. Initially it was a short block and balancer assembly replacement, but it just became a long block replacement later.
@@lrich8181 That's because no one can rebuild those engines, they're trash. go and ask an engine builder if they will rebuild a kia/hyundai engine - if they say yes it's because they have no work, but they know the rebuild will fail.
As a machinist when I would rebuild an engine was blow the clothes out of the bolt holes debris from machine always came out of the holes setting must not be cleaning the main bearing galleys oil galleys very good
I have the Sequoia with the iForce 5.7 V8. I talked to a guy who had traded his in almost a year ago, for the new model with the V6tt. He said it is great for reducing gasoline expense in low speed and low weight situations; however towing his dump trailer, camper, or boat take more fuel than the V8 did. He said highway speeds (65ish) gave about the same mileage as the V8. He wanted his old one back. 😂
Fortunately they’ve caught it at 100k potentially affected vehicles… Instead of burying their heads in the sand until it was over a million like Hyundai/Kia.
@@Jonathan_Doe_ You're forgetting that those vehicles made by Hyundai/Kia had this issue, but the machinging debris was much smaller than in Toyotas, which is why the Hyundai/Kia engines were blowing up much much later in life, after many vehicles had already been produced. TL;DR: Toyota is addressing it now because the engine failures are happening now. Hyundai/Kia addressed it late because the engine failures started happening late.
@dominicg2456 people don't seem to understand how recalls work, and don't understand engines for mass produced cars are not hand built so things will be missed. Which is different from a design flaw
I had a Hyundai that came out of the Alabama plant by Montgomery when they had those Honduran kids working and the engines from that plant had metal shavings in the engine clogging oil lines and the engine blew because of it and they were supposed to replace the engine but fought me about it
A symptom of an overall decline in QA Inspections, Employee Working/Living Standards, and the work ethic/attitude of working class people everywhere. Glad to see the Fortune 500s aren't immune, hopefully standards are raised for both Employee Compensation and Quality Control.
Ahh machining debris. My Tacoma has a recall for, “welding slag” that can cause axle separation and apparently an airbag clock-spring issue as well. I also discovered the bed is shifted like 1/2” to one side of the cab. Didn’t notice until I saw my RTT wasn’t centered despite knowing I centered the fuck out of it. Also mag props to Tinkerers Adventure, from one engineer (electrical tho) to another that guy is legit.
My 2011 Tundra and 2015 Sequoia have the 5.7L. I test drove one of the new ones to see what I was missing. I know it supposed to have more power on paper, but it felt much more sluggish than either of my older vehicles.
Toyota limited it to under 100k knowing they'll extend that to early to late made 23s as well. Toyota held back to make it seem less of a problem than it really is
I think cars should have chip detectors in the engine and transmission just like aircraft do. It’s essentially a small gap of two magnets, if any metallic particles are loose in the oil the particles attach and bridge the gap of the detector and illuminate a light telling you there is metal in your oil.
@@cjin0101 yea..if your pressure gauge is reacting to metal in the oil that’s way beyond fixing. Chip detectors pick up extremely fine dust sized particles so you shut down the engine before any lasting damage could take effect.
Debris in the engine makes no sense since the affected engines are produced in Japan and the US (Alabama). The bearing assembly in question is made by the same manufacturer and sold to both of the assembly plants. The question is whether it’s a bad batch or a bad design.
@@VroodenTheGreat the recall says that those hybrid models have different pressure on the bearings for some reason, and also have electric power in case of a engine stall/stop.
Doesn't matter where it is built these days - it matters what the current corporate culture is on quality/durability & sadly neither Toyota or Honda are the same companies that they used to be in that regard. My new 2020 Japan-built Toyota was the worst vehicle that I have owned in 40+ years & 11 different new Toyota, Honda & Acura vehicles during that time. Purchased my first Mazda in 2022 (built in Mexico, CX-30 CE) & no problems or defects to report going on 2.5 years owned/driven now.
@@dystopia-usaagreed. The machines are mostly doing the building. I thing a big problem is that companies engineer things to break after a sufficient amount of time so you can buy a new one instead of using technological advancement to build something that lasts
@@dystopia-usait absolutely matters where it's built. These are built in the US. US has always had lesser build quality. Why I wouldn't but a new Honda or Toyota product unless it came from Japan.
Yes 5448 aluminum engine blocks do warp a bit under heat and stress race cars have aluminum blocks but In the boring pedestrian world cast iron engine blocks are more practical
@@VroodenTheGreat I never said they were or weren’t great, you’re putting words in my mouth. Tf? Your response makes no sense. We’re obsessed with shitting on this engine and lauding the 4.6 and 5.7 when in reality they also had issues early on. Make that make sense.
Good for the recall, bad for only providing a short block and making the dealerships tear the whole truck apart. Not exactly a controlled and repeatable process. I guess the paperwork says, your mileage may vary....as well as the reliability.
You'd probably be amazed at how little the tech will get paid to replace the short block. If anything goes wrong shortly after he'll fix it for no pay. The world of flat rate.
@@treborheminway3814 I worked for Toyota as a Tech then an MDT. Took all schools. Never saw a video or any thing relating to establishing flat rate times. A woman pulls the times out of thin air. Knowing the Techs can either like it or lump it. It's called taking one for the team when you get screwed out of your pay. If you don't like that soon you're down the road and they hire in another sucker to take one for the team.Get It?
My problem with a short block is that if it blows again does the manufacturer or the dealership take the hit and fix it, i see potential for finger pointing. Plus given the size of the recall Toyota should set up a separate engine line and do remanufactured long blocks so it's plug and play at the dealership.
I thought that's why there is a break in period with frequent oil changes to make sure that the flakey residue and glittery oil clean the leftovers from factory?
as a Toyota tech, lol. Toyota is trying to figure out the cheapest way to do the recall right now rather than what should be a complete long block engine replacement for everything the metal contaminated oil touches. I bet the procedure boils down to replacing a bearing on most engines, an oil flush with a few filter changes and an announcement on a 'warranty enhancement' of the engine that extends it for another 100k should the condition present itself.
That's why being ultra brand-loyal is futile. Toyota does indeed build good vehicles, but all of the sudden they have the worst full size truck on the market. My Silverados never blew up, and now I own a Subaru. Brand loyalty will blind you to a vehicle's issues.
They build mediocre vehicles and haven't built anything amazing in a decade. Toyota drivers don't like to drive so the vehicles aren't driven hard hence why a lot of the perception is that they are reliable still.
Or… just don’t buy them brand new, wait a few years and let the kinks work out. Buy one partially used w low miles a few years after they come out, get basically a brand new truck for half the price and know it’s not a time bomb.
@@cwx8we don’t like to drive?? lol. Son I put 40 miles on my tundra a day. Some days I drive triple that. The real issue is people buy them that can’t afford to go anywhere while they make payments, and payments for aftermarket parts…too many people live beyond their income bracket. People don’t buy Toyota trucks to let them sit. They aren’t super cars and they aren’t track cars, we buy them to work and have fun.
A long time ago, my bud mark and i were doing a live rocker adjustment to my 65’ Ford, and I accidentally dropped the deep well SOCKET right in my engine while it was running!!!!! My 289 ate the socket and never had a problem! Crazy huh?!
Yeah. The 2.4L in a bunch of cars like the Camry consumed oil. Like a qt every 500 miles. This was a couple years ago. You know how Toyota fixed it? By just designing a new engine, the 2.5L in the next gen cars... Yeah, they didn't fix the oil consumption issue at all...
Bro what I've been a mechanic for 15 years I've never had that happen I've seen old people that put 28 miles on it in a year want an oil change but not what your talking about
@@zakpike4582 The guy believed there was metal in the engine and so the first few hundred to a thousand miles he changed it a bunch of times. After that just changed at normal intervals.
Excuse me but these issues have been happening since 2018, ever since this 3.4 turbo V6 engine debuted in the LS500. Multiple threads in the Lexus forums with failure going back to 2018, and in some cases with 2 or 3 engine replacements! Toyota kept ignoring it on purpose to buy time and to see with just how much they could get away with. If it weren't for the NHTSA opening an investigation, Toyota wouldn't have done a "voluntary" recall. Every giant car manufacturer is evil, greed is their motto, whether it be GM, Ford, Hyundai, Stellantis, Toyota, or Honda. Support the smaller manufacturers.
The best thing Toyota could do right now is come out and acknowledge their mistake in jumping on the turbo V6 bandwagon, and immediately start offering the 5.7 V8 again. Then let the market decide what it wants.
@shadowhound5113 Bingo. Toyota have all but perfected hybrid technology, considering how far the Prius has come and for how long its been in production. That's exactly what they should have done. Smaller displacement V8, maybe based on their tried and true 4.7L, plus a hybrid battery. Probably would have been good for 25+ mpg and 500+hp/tq.
@koomo801 oh I know.. its the EPA and the government doing it. If anything, they should have updated their bulletproof 4.7 V8 that used to come in the 4Runner and 1st gen Tundra, that was still used in some Lexus SUVs, updated it and turned it into a hybrid. That is a million mile engine, plus it's smaller displacement and if you paired it with a Prius style hybrid battery system... you got a 25mpg/400hp/500tq plus RELIABLE drive train. Toyota has all but perfected the hybrid system. They really screwed up jumping on the TT V6 bandwagon.
@@caseytodd7632 Agreed. My 25 year old '00 Tundra V8 has had one coil go bad. That's it. Too bad the EPA and the horsepower wars are forcing their hands.
@@oliverheaviside2539oh great. Thats not right...these truck owners deserve a new engine, top to bottom. Metal filings get everywhere, and omce it chews the bearings, even worse.
@@1gbayfisher You are correct, and taking the entire front body of the truck apart and then disassemble the whole engine to swap the short block is a technician’s nightmare, takes a month or longer, and something inevitably will not be done right. And the recall is for 96,500 trucks!
I was ready to buy a full-size Toyota pick up with a V-8 right when they did away with the V-8. I have no interest in a V6 TwinTurbo from any manufacturer. The used V-8 Toyota trucks are impossible to find because now everyone wants one.
@@Madddog87 I had a Duramax/Allison GMC And decided I really didn’t need a diesel, so I didn’t keep it very long. Luckily I never had the wimpy pin in the crankshaft fail. I have to run with a gas powered V-8 is what suits me best.
They are not impossible to find. I can see a dozen of them on Autotrader. What is harder to find is one that isn't black, white or grey. I just bought a red 2020 Tundra last month.
@@damondiehl5637 Anything but red for me. 😂 Thanks for responding to my comment. If I get serious I imagine I can find one but I am an old codger at this point so I’ll be looking for something that’s fairly local. The way I understand it these manufacturers with all the models they produce have to achieve the highest miles per gallon average through the whole line, so of course they’re gonna cut the V-8’s every chance they get.
@@m00nkinftwobviously they have had bad engines but the good outweighs the bad. That’s the difference with Toyota that America car companies can’t say the same about.
Heres the big difference. They warranty their produce when they realize they f'd up. Even long after mandatory warranty peroids expire and not because of class action lawsuits. Toyota fan boys exist en mass for a reason.
It's a "zero" weight oil problem. Use 5W-30 oil, and all of these "manufacturing defects" go away. Plain bearings (rod and main bearings) NEED a cushion of oil to ride on, and 0W-20 or even worse, 0W-08 oil simply isn't sufficient. This is the fault of government and EPA regulations...not poor design. The car manufacturers are NOT allowed to tell you that tho. Machinist and mechanical engineer of 35 years.
@@Chris-te7uk I’m a mechanical engineer and been for 52 years. My emphasis was internal combustion engines. I’ve tested the on engine dynos and conducted research on them. Though other manufacturers specify 0W-20 oil, they haven’t seen anywhere near as much bearing failure that these 3.4L TT Toyota engines have seen.
@@Chris-te7uk The U.S. produced blocks in were not getting flushed properly after machining. We received a technical service bulletin for the inspection process, reasons why, and photos of what debris to look for.
Machining debris wouldn't exclusively damage the main bearing. Also I find it hard to believe both Japan and US factories making the engines would miss machining debris, especially Japan, for a hundred thousand engines.
These problems are all exclusive to the American made tundras, the Japanese ones are completely safe and I believe don’t have any recalls except for the fuel line
Once Toyota replaced the Tacoma's 3.4L 5VZ-FE Engine that had a Cast Iron Block with these new Aluminum 3.5L engines, I was done. My old truck was literally bulletproof and never had an issue even after 3 hurricanes. Now Toyota and their infinite wisdom put a V6 in the Tundra and is no longer making the V8. Now I am completely done.
