I think this is going to just be a toe in the door for Toyota, at least for the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if they ramp it up over time, but they're not gonna dive in headfirst like they did last time. They're going to slip in, learn the culture while operating on the periphery, build some personal/professional connections to people inside F1 that might be useful if they DID jump in, and then decide from there how far to go. And they're going to do it in a way that allows them to easily cut their losses if it doesn't work out.
Educate me if I'm wrong, but only Honda have gone in and come out again. Subaru made like one f1 engine and that was it. As far as I'm aware Toyota hasn't been in since the noughties.
I always found it weird that Toyota didn’t join back when the turbo-hybrid era began in 2014 considering how far ahead their hybrid tech was compared to the competition
They had the experience but returning to F1 as a team is expensive, even for a company like Toyota. And it means to get rid of their 'corporate' style of management that didn't worked for them in the 2000s.
People said last time that Toyota where going to do way better than they did. Toyota didnt understand F1 then and needs to seriosuly look at how an F1 team is run before making another crack. Last time suffered too much from interference from the top brass.
@@zeberto1986 Just hope it's the Toyota branch from Germany that runs the racing teams instead of corporate Toyota from Japan that was interfering with them last time
The irony that Steiner was let go because he kept saying the facilities needed an upgrade and Komatsu woo-ing Gene Haas over, only for half way through the season, Komatsu then to state that the facilities need upgrading... Not downplaying what Komatsu has done so far, but just putting it bluntly, was there potentially more at play as to why Steiner was ultimately let go?
@@Sauceyjames Most likely. Perhaps Gene thought a new team principal is the new lick of paint the team needed and Steiner was just growing stale. However there is one thing that is for certain, is that Gene doesn't 'know' F1
I see what you're getting at but there were more issues at Haas than just the facilities which would explain why Gene was hessitent to pour money into the faclities without Steiner at least showing the team would make the most of them. Komatsu has done what Steiner couldn't which is maximise the team/car results as much as possible so when he now approaches Gene and says this is the ceiling of performance they can achieve without new facilities it carries more weight and less risk. Steiner's approach of introducing one or two big updates a year was clearly not working under the current rule set as by the time those updates came the team had fallen so far down the pecking order that it made scroing points almost impossible. Komatsu's approach of having a good starting base and introducing incremental updates almost every race weekend ensures they're never falling behind other teams in season development giving them more opportinities of good results. Steiner was a well loved character but an inefficient manager as shown by how well Komatsu is doing his first season the team is under his control.
Komatsu did it better. Instead of confronting Gene, he probably took the lead in proposing a solution, worked his best with what he had, and probably took point in these negotiations with Toyota Gazoo using his Japanese language skills to ease negotiations. In other words, instead of handing Gene a problem, he did the hard work and handed Gene a solution. One that rather than costing him money might actually lead to extra revenue for the team in the form of a new sponsor. That made it really easy for Gene to go along with what Komatsu wants. Management candidates, take note. Guenther is how you don't win. Komatsu is how you always win. Haas getting some relative success on the racetrack probably helped. Komatsu can tell Gene, "I can get you P6, but if you want better results I need more tools. And I have some good news on that front. I've been talking with representatives of the Toyoda family and..."
Two things- first- keep an eye out for a Fiat-Toyota collaboration that is technical. Given Toyota's history, Fiat could be helped a lot from their battery and H2 experience. Second- nothing against Gunther, but seeing Haas try to make significant strides like this is a good reason Steiner needed to move aside. Just talking about this instead of that Rich Energy debacle is a very big deal for Haas.
Or the Uralkali deal that had the worst timing imaginable. basically Gunther had some decent ideas but never really executed them very well. Komatsu is a different cat, very "measure twice, cut once" and his cuts have been a lot more precise. He's done a very good job of quietly building out the foundations of the Haas team into something that can be stronger than it is now.
They have a massive factory in cologne with a windtunnel in which most of the currently on average fastest car in F1 was developed in. They're killing it in WEC and WRC and their last year of F1 was actually very promising. A return of Toyota would be quite interesting.
My dream for the past 2 years was a partnership between McLaren and Toyota. That went from a 0% chance to a 5% chance. If not, I hope their stint this time will be much more successful than the last one if they decide to come back as a works team.
I see one big "problem" for F1 with so many difrerent engine suppliers: Only one of them can win. And by experience it will be one, maybe two teams for a number of years. All the "new" companies in F1 will have to think long and hard how long they want to keep spending 100s of millions a year, for no direct return.
@@Appletank8 Engine development has it's own cost cap of $130m in 2026. The separate team cost cap is rumoured to be $220m in 2026. Driver and top-staff salaries will be additional millions each year. So it will keep the spending down relative to the 2010s, but it will still be in the 300-400m range.
@@ben_1 Yea F1 is gonna be expensive no matter what, but at least it slows it down somewhat, instead of the risk of somehow setting a billion dollars on fire for 9th place. Now it's only 300mil for 9th place.
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They were killing it in the WEC. They're not bad but a lot of their success comes from being around for a long time. And having no competition at one point. Now though they're hardly killing it.
@@paulreilly3904 they could've been 1-2 last race if #7 didn't have fuel pump problems. Also the previous race when #8 got punted out of champ and Ferrari only got a slap on the rist penalty.
It's kind of a travesty that we don't have Toyota and Honda works teams in F1 anymore. The two biggest and most prominent/successful/biggest Japanese OEMs in the world most definitely need to showcase their technical expertise in the world's most technical motorsports series. Toyota and Honda are the equivalent of Mercedes and BMW on the German side and I'd definitely love to have BMW back battling their arch nemesis countrymates in Stuttgart.
I was thinking about this the first time I heard about the potential Toyota connection. I wonder how much involvement/visibility Ferrari would be ok with? If it is just a technical partnership type situation I can see it being ok with them, well otherwise Haas wouldn't even do this so surely it is, but what happens when they start having a bunch of logos on the car or if it becomes Toyota Haas F1 instead of Moneygram? Maybe since it is Haas they will be more ok with it. And then when it comes to 2028 they could say ok choose now?
@@DeathBlocks Toyota and Ferrari are not market competitors in the consumer space, so I could see it not being a big issue. I expect it would be different if it was a higher end brand like Porsche or Jaguar.
Speaks volumes to Gunther's commitment to the team that all of the old problems he always talked about are still around and now the next team principal is talking about the exact same problems and how to fix them.
@@WaelAli-sd8sw we're not in the market for CNC machines and that's exactly my point. Why market your industrial product to retail and luxury clients? Bentley doesn't sell cars at your local farmers market.
@@grunchlk you don’t need to be in the manufacturing market. Think economically. F1 has the biggest platform. Hence companies come and go to get brand exposure. When that happens and the partner team is successful, they can go back and sell their service/product at a higher price. Why do you think Alpine is shit? Because it’s being run by idiots who want to bring some value to Alpine cars in order to turn it into the French Ferrari.
@@WaelAli-sd8sw I agree with you there, but those are consumer brands. Industrial procurement or investment works differently. No purchaser cares whether Haas F1 does well, they need a product tailored to their needs, efficient, possibly with affordable financing etc. If Haas sold fridges or computers or mobile phones or supercars, I would 100% agree with you. Then again, I could be completely wrong, but that's what I think.
I don't agree with you. 3 pole positions and 13 podium finishes is definitely not bad. The two main areas Toyota could have fared better : hired a world class aero engineer and hire front-running drivers. Season after season, they just stuck with mediocre drivers and that reflected in poor championship finishes
Mediocre drivers, not bad results, what were you talking about? They spent the most every single season, they overspent most of things, they even tried to copy the dominant Ferrari car during the first time they entered F1 and could have gotten at least 2-3 wins no, even a top team contender with that world-class budget and you, the one who said it is definitely not bad, blamed it on drivers the way they did? Ridiculous, Trulli was a race winner, so as Olivier Panis. And Kamui Kobayashi, Timo Glock, Ralf Schumacher, Mika Salo etc. were nowhere near mediocre drivers.
What Komatsu seems to have done is borderline genius. The only way he was gonna get better facilities for car development was to find them lying around, because Gene was never going to invest the money to build his own. So... he did that. Haas gets better facilities meaning Komatsu looks better, and instead of costing anything it may be a ticket to a big money sponsor for the team. And Toyota gets back into the F1 game. He just won the whole pot even though he was only going to the river with a pair of deuces.
Stewart-Haas is leaving Nascar. That might be why this happening, and possibly could mean more investment in the F1 team, especially considering the rising value
Its a possiblty that the LME engine would be converted similar to Audi LME drive train would be possible....Alpine would also be an another partner under consideration.
side comment or detail that has its part in the puzzle. is that the NASCAR Sprint cup - Stewart-HAAS racing team will close it's operations at the end of 2024 after 15 years of operations - Another sign that Gene Haas wants to focus all his efforts on F1? to me, clearly yes.
Sounds like someone on Toyota is trying to find a justification for keeping the F1 facility to the higher ups so the staff working in it won't get laid off
@@DaybreakPT You don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about. First, Toyota is not looking at buying or setting up a team. And they didn't "crash and burn" because "lack of knowledge" whatever that is supposed to mean. You obviously don't know who they had hired.
Toyota's corporatism was almost their downfall, since then, Akio Toyoda was able to secretly start projects to show how it should be made and with the results, he was able to fight back against the director's board and investors. From that point on Toyota has changed and has successful projects and cars that got enthusiasts back.
Is the Haas chassis still built by Dallara? If it is, it would make sense for it to change, and Toyota build the chassis instead. I think that it would be mutually beneficial. Toyota gets access to F1 technology, Haas gets a discount on its chassis going forward. I assume that Toyota has the facilities and personnel to meet such demand without being overstretched.
Im surprised they didn't jump in at the beginning of the Hybrid era. They are eons ahead of the field with the Technology on the domestic market. I think it only benefit F1 & the Motor Vehicle industry in the future.
I think the treatment of Andretti and GM has done more to make Toyota reluctant to dive right back into F1 then their previous performance. F1 doesn't want more suppliers and makes no secret of that fact.
Honestly, i think they should enter as a engine supplier, less money than a works team. I also would like to see them to team up with mclaren considering how they've been performing this season, and it's a fantasy I've had for the past year.
No sure why you Brits or mainly F1/FIA hate on Gene Haas so much. 9 teams and 18 cars on the grid without him. Even though the financials got tough he didn’t pull out (like a huge manufacturer could or WOULD have done). He doesn’t need a board members approval to spend the money he is on F1 or any kind of racing. Something to think on there..
I didn't expect Komatsu's Japanese lineage to come into play like this. Also, Toyota's massive factory is surely an untouched potential for the past decade. Hope things will get interesting soon. Also surely Steiner wouldn't make such a move stick, so the change back then seems worth it.
Honestly, Gene should seriously consider fully selling Haas F1 to Toyota. He's only ever lost money on it and if Toyota wants it let them have it and save his money.
It’s interesting because I thought the mission statement was get as close to Ferrari as possible (taking Bearman being a further commitment to that). This feels like a step in a different direction, on a path that Gene Haas will surely not want to fully walk down
I always thought that Toyota could have returned as motor supplier in the 2020s, but with Mercedes, Honda and Ferrari supplying the majority of the teams it would be difficult for them to provide a powerful and reliable engine that can be a serious competition. It would mean supplying a team from the bottom of the grid that made 0 points. And in 2026 with RB/Ford and Audi supplying their own teams, it's more difficult than ever for Toyota to make a full return.
I want to give huge respect to THE RACE for being one of the few channels to not use Clickbait thumbnails. I'm starting to lose track of the number of Formula 1 channels that I have blocked because of their sleazy Clickbait tactics. Thanks guys!
@@patrickcesalestajodywibowo741well in the video it's also mentioned that Alfa Romeo-like partnership is unlikely. Instead it's technical partnership with Toyota like using the wind tunnel, driver-in-loop simulator and manufacturing capabilities from Toyota rather than from Ferrari. They will still likely to keep Ferrari engine for the short term though.
For branding it would be massive too. Toyota has a huge print on the US automotive market. and more and more americans are interested in F1, which mean that a partnership with Haas (an american team) could actually allow Toyota to sell even more cars in the US
