So... I know almost nothing about cooking. I'm a microwave kinda dude. So I just added the first things that popped into my head. Corn just seemed like an ingredient, though now that I think of it, it's probably not one that is often measured in teaspoons.
I loved the history lesson towards the end. I knew of mana burn but had never made the connection that that helped to make mana drain be a risky card that could end up hurting you. That makes so much sense as to why they made it. Never heard of the batch, I have only ever used the stack.
For sure, I've found ways to sneak bits of Magic history into episodes when I can, this has probably been the largest chunk, so I was sure to put it in at the end of the video as I know not everyone cares for it. Mana Drain was still a really good card, but it was a risk.
My very first victory in Magic was because Mana Burn. I had a pile of cards, no synergy, combos or anything. I had the 7th Edition manual and my opponent was about to win. I left him at 2-3 life and he generated all the mana he could on his (then) precombat main phase. When he went to combat I told him "I think you lost, mana burn, right? It's in this page". I think that day defined the kind of player I was going to become, rules on the side, weird interactions, now testing to become a judge, haha!
Holy crap, that's awesome! That's so cool that you were actively using the guide book. Is this the one that came with the foil promo of Thorn Elemental? I bought a bunch of those as gifts for my friends to get them into Magic and I opened them up to snag the Thorn Elementals and take them out before I gave them to them, HA!
For sure gotta make it one day. I actually still have my issue of the Duelist issue #9 and they released an image of a rat maze to help explain the Batch system. Might show that off in the video.
As someone that learnt Magic with the 4th edition rules (with the help of the Microprose PC game, AKA "Shandalar"), and then re-learnt when starting playing in paper in 2002 (7th edition rules), and then re-learnt again in 2022 with the current rules (after a 15 year hiatus), I do have an appreciation of how rules have improved over the years. Yes, changes are a nuisance, and it takes a while to get used to it, but overall I feel the improvements have been beneficial to the overall streamlining and longevity of the game. I for one have lived enough to see see "casting" a spell becoming "playing" a spell becoming "casting" a spell again :) The only thing I can complain about the layers system is that WOTC should print some cards in boosters to document these to all players.
Ha! You're in a pretty similar boat as me. I took a break around 2006 and then started up again with Commander in 2018. I still played here and there between that time, out at a summer camp that I worked at, so I wasn't keeping up with the rules changes at the time. It was quite a thing to see someone play a Planeswalker for the first time in a game. Then it happened again when I saw my first Mythic Rare card. I thought they were fake cards.
This is a great video. Too many people try to change the layers system without considering the full extent of what their changes would imply. I have heard about the batch a few times and so find it interesting to learn things about Magic's history. If I wanted to improve the layer system while breaking as little as possible, I would condense layers 2-6 into a single layer to allow them to be influenced by dependencies. You don't want to include layer 1 in that since copy effects wouldn't make ability granting effects dependent on them so you might apply fervor and then overwrite it using a copy effect. You also wouldn't want to include layer 7 since that has a bunch of sub layers which should be kept. This has the downside of making Volrath's Shapeshifter and Exchange of Words both act strangely, but those cards are weird anyways. It also means people will need to learn a lot more about Dependencies and dependency loops. This would make Dress Down + Magus of the Moon interact how people expect, but now Bello + Dress Down creates a dependency loop (DD changes the existence of Bello, but Bello changes which objects Dress Down affects), so it will be resolved by timestamps. If anyone has some other issues with that change, feel free to include them. Overall I am perfectly satisfied with the current layers system though.
Yeah, Layers are complex, but that's because Magic is complex. That's an interesting idea, to just batch some of those specific Layers together, but yea, Dependencies then do become much more involved and more common. I ended up making a Bello deck, so I've been running into this a whole lot the last two weeks, but despite that, I too am happy with where Layers are at right now. They work so well with such a large majority of situations and for 27,000+ components in the game, that's not bad at all.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel I suppose only 4-6 really need to be combined. I haven't really seen anyone talking about weird issues with control and text changing (though the later is pretty uncommon). That way Volrath's Shapeshifter functions the expected way when mind controlled.
Very cool! I can count on one hand the number of players I've had games with that know of the Batch and even played back when the Batch was a thing. Heck, most players that played back in pre-6th Edition didn't even know about the Batch, people were just blissfully ignorant to it at my LGS.
Glad the metaphor helped. It is actually a pretty recent one that I have borrowed from someone. I believe I saw them use it on Reddit, or here in YT, and I thought it was a really good one. I've heard paint used as a metaphor in the past as well, like mixing different colors to make a specific color of paint.
I'm of the "batch" vintage. It worked ok but it lead with some wacky groupings and resolutions. Mana burn was fun. I liked that mechanic and often would add an "x" spell on my sideboard if my opponent I did prefer some things - like putting damage and buffs into a creature and resolving them simultaneously at the end - like now you can try to giant growth your berzerked bear and you can "pre" bolt it. Before you'd get all the effects applied and resolved a the end - a giant bear that was somewhat singed but still hitting the opponent. I did prefer that, but didn't like the "damage on the stack". Too many shenanigans there. I do like that the new system simplifies things because often the resolution just obviates some steps - all the buffs on the bear are now gone because the thing is dead from the lighting bolt. Mana burn was also ok, but the current system is more streamlined. One less thing to worry about. The game is so much more complicated now!
@@tychoMX It for sure did lead to less confusion, but man I really miss mana burn. It was just a nice way to keep players in check from going too crazy. I also liked the idea of a wizard slinging spells and doing so much that they overheat like a gun. Was always cool in my mind.
Amazing video as always man, I enjoy watching your videos, and seeing your channel grow! All your videos deserve more views, even your AI one. Quality work every time
OH SNAP! I appreciate that, especially the AI bit. Like, I know people really dislike AI and maybe that's part of why it didn't get a lot of clicks... maybe it's cause I released it on a Friday and I always hear about the YT algorithm really wanting a channel to be consistent and that made it mad that I did a video on a weird day.... I don't know, but I'm just sad because that video took soooo long to render/upload and I thought it was actually just a hilarious video. Like, so many of those results were just funny, but I'm weird... so... Anyhow, I'm just really happy that you've been enjoying all these videos.
@@attackoncardboard I've been playing my Bello deck lately and yep, people have been dying a lot to it and they have tried to Kenrith's Transformation my Bello like 3 times I think.
HA! Heck yeah, pre-Legends. Dang, I don't often meet OG folks. I started just after Unlimited so I'm usually the Old Fogey in my pods. I live on the East coast so Magic wasn't really a thing in my area.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Nice. :) I'm on the west coast, and went to a Con in Seattle in the early 90s and saw this cool new card game, brought it back up to Canada for me and my friends to play. Traded away so many cards that, knowing what I know today, I really wish I didn't.
@@Celebnasse Right there with you. I had no clue in the 90s or early 2000s that I'd still be playing this game, heck, playing it even more than I ever did as a kid. I remember key moments from the early days that haunt me now. We used to laugh about how bad Lion's Eye Diamond was and literally threw them away in the trash with other bulk cards. Then I remember that happening again in Prophecies with Rhystic Study, that card was so bad and so we threw them away and I even remember not wanting to throw my foils of it away because I liked the art but my buddies sort of made fun of me for hanging onto them. I can't remember what happened to all of them, but I managed to find one of my foils when I started playing Commander and so I do have it in my Alela, Artful Provocateur deck which is a very blinged out deck.
My favorite rebuttal to the "just use timestamps" argument is this: You control Savannah Lion (2/1) and Castle (your untapped creatures get +0/+2). I then cast Clone, copying your Lion. I also control a Bad Moon (All black creatures get +1/+1). I then cast Deathlace on the Lion, making it into a black creature. What is the P/T of my Lion? Somehow, I've yet to have anyone tell me that my Lion is a 2/3🤔
You ever think WotC will revisit color changing effects? I feel like, at the rate they're releasing new products, the creative well is gonna struggle soon so things like white caring about damage prevention will one day come back with a vengeance and part of me hopes color matters and color changing stuff too, but I feel like it never will because Layers are just the way they are... confusing.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Unfortunately, since Painter's Servant and Ghostflame Sliver have the same problem as Bello, I highly doubt we will be getting similar effects anytime soon. I really like the design space, but there's no way WotC isn't aware of how these effects work, so they likely want to avoid printing more if possible.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannelWe did recently get Leyline of the Guildpact. I think it's just that they don't really print as many cards (at least hate cards) that care about colors these days so it doesn't do as much.
Why not just have everything be entirely precedent based judge rulings from official events with no official compendium and is tenuously handled and maintained by a Facebook group?
Late to this video/party, with the example of Glorious Anthem and Confiscate, is that not simply just a case of reading the car explains the card? Even with a time stamps system or layers system if an adjustment was made to the "continues to apply even if it is removed in a subsequent layer" would that not work? You no longer control Creature taken via Confiscate so time stamp or layer, glorious anthems condition for granting+1/+1 do not apply (IE you do jot control the creature)?
That was just an example of how a purely Timestamp Based system for all Continuous Effects wouldn't quite work. If the Anthem were played, that means it would start to apply to creatures I controlled, so my 2/2 Bear Cub would now be a 3/3. Then when you cast a Confiscate onto it, you've got a later Timestamp of Control applying to it, so now it's your Bear Cub but because the Anthem applied to it and now you control it, it's still going to be a 3/3. There are other examples I could suggest if that helps. If I control a Bad Moon and then I play Scathe Zombies, they go from 2/2 to now 3/3 from the Moon, but then I play Crystal Spray and choose the color green. If it's purely Timestamp based, now my black Zombies are still getting +1/+1 from the Moon despite the Moon now saying that only green creatures get +1/+1.
How about adding a rule that if an ability effecting multiple layers is removed during the ability layer all effects of that ability are reversed from previous layers.
He does go into that a bit at 7:20. You run into issues where reversing an ability can mean it's source would never be affected by the ability removing effect in the first place, which means you now should reinstate that ability, which means you should take it away... For example, if you play Dress Down + Weatherlight Compleated, then If removing the ability that makes WC a creature causes you to reverse it, now it should no longer be affected by Dress Down.
The metaphor of the cookbook still doesn't make sense to me because if the cookbook tells you to add 3 eggs, but then a later page tells you to remove 2 of the eggs that you added, then you have to remove the eggs, other wise your not making the recipe correctly. If the book tells you to add 3 eggs but then later to remove 2 and you don't remove the 2 eggs, then whatever recipe you are following won't come out right. I see a card that says it removes all other abilities, so I am going to assume that it will remove all of those abilities, otherwise what is the point of the card?
Have you ever tried removing some eggs after adding them? You really can't. Perhaps a better metaphor would be if it said something like "put your eggs back in the fridge". In that case, it's pretty clear that it's not talking about the ones you already added.
@@TheBigBoopy Well that's the whole point of the metaphor. Once something has applied, there is no going back and changing something (like removing something).
The video points out how several of the ways people want to fix them don't work as well as you might think. Do you have any other suggestions for how things could be changed?
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel it's like the political systems in Churchill's speech. It's so hard to make things all work together. I would change one thing, though - would make the rubric "card text takes precedence" as the paramount principle. Then you'd get exactly what you read on the card - "loses all other abilities" - and not losing them - is exactly the prime example of what I don't currently like.
