WOW!! Thank you so much for this tour of the Trapdoor rifles!! I have one in excellent shape, I shoot it and it works perfectly. Stock is 1884, with the shorter distance between the trigger guard and the beginning of the comb, also the serrated trigger and the trapdoor is marked 1884. However, the lock only has two notches. Bluing is about 85% and the stock is perfect, no cracks or gouges. I treat it with boiled linseed oil every so often. The leather sling is all intact, Rock Island Arsenal, treated with Obenauf's every so often....No cartouches readily discernable although it seems a very faint one appears on the left side of the stock close to the upper bushed screw. There is a "43" struck into the right side of the rear of the stock. A treasured gift to me by bu late Uncle..Thank you again for this wonderful presentation..
A friend of mine recently picked up a trowel bayonet (from a farm auction) and he didnt pay very much for it since no one else knew what it really was.
Hello John, Thanks for making this great video, one can learn so much more by seeing all the different models together. I've been collecting these for 50 plus years and you still showed me new points of view. Thanks again..........Doc
I read that the windage feature on the Buffington rear sight was disabled on some of the 1884 models, for what reason, I don’t know, and sure enough that was the case on my 1884. I disassembled the sight and found a small hole drilled on the underside with a pin inserted that prevented its movement. I removed the pin, reassembled, and now it works.
Firing the 45 70 Springfield was pure orgasmic. Years ago when my Dad was living we did Black, smokeless, pyrodex RS, CTG. I casted my own. I reloaded them for pennies on the dollar. Those were the best days of my life. I cringe at the entrenchment tool. would'nt you bend the barrel. the solders using it would not worry about that especially if a trench would save there lives. You forgot the coffee grinder in the butt plate. Thanks for all your info especially on the earily ones with no receiver.
Such a wealth of information. I have my great great uncle's 1873 Trapdoor 45-70 hanging above my fireplace. I have heard stories that a few .410 shotgun shells were fired through this rifle and wondering how much damage this would cause to the rifling. Not that I plan on ever shooting today's modern day loads through the heirloom anyway. Thank you for your most informative video and your display of rifles from that era.
love the video and collection! i got a shooter trapdoor carbine made in 1887 and i absolutely love it! looking for an allin conversion or 1873 cadet next!
I’ve got a 1865 Springfield trapdoor 50-70 story goes my Great Grandfather found this rifle hidden up in the rafters of the ceiling at Fort Lowell in Tucson AZ around the beginning of the 1900’s. The rifle has been passed down to me and I will pass it down to my son.
and he will "pass it" to ebay for a Fistful of Dollars :D no, iam just jocking. But that happened in Germany so often. A young man inherits his great-grandfather's old "Pickelhaube" or finds it while tidying up the attic and thinks "what should I do with this old nonsense - what interests me about history, the future is important" and when he finds out he does Can get "$ 100" for it .... stupid idiots. There were actually millions of German soldiers, gendarmes and police officers who had the honor of keeping their personal "spiked hats" and these unrelated stoned great-grandchildren can think of nothing better than to finance a month of hashish with it. poor Germany
@@Joebonjoe yea Joe my sons know not to get rid of this rifle it’s been in our family too long. Plus they have plenty of other guns they can sell when I’m gone.
@@craigthescott5074 Well, if you don't think much of weapons or the value of heirlooms anyway, you won't make any distinction when it comes to selling weapons. Or do you want to tell them "hey there are so many other weapons you can sell, but THIS one is too VALUABLE" hahaha if (and I say "if") they care more about this $$$$, then they will Recognize the "value" of this weapon in money only. That is the problem with raising children (especially adult children). How can you get children to understand "values"? Do you know the idiots who sell their great parents' spiked bonnets for money don't feel bad or disrespectful, they simply have no interest in this helmet and its history or in history in general. That's what I mean, if your sons don’t like history and guns, they will not see any point in having a "trapdoor from 1865" with them.
@@craigthescott5074 Well, I really hope that your sons will appreciate certain valuable things personally when your time comes. About 3 weeks ago I saw this little clip on RU-vid "I have this old gun ... Trapdoor..." and the weapon specialist explained to the "owner" in a fascinating way what kind of weapon he had inherited from his relative, I almost cried when I did saw how the profound expert opinion only fell on the deaf ears of the owner. And then the question "and how much can I get for it ???" and I just thought "oh come on, another fool who wants to sell his heirlooms for a few coins."
Just acquired from father in law whats marked as an 1865. However ive noticed a couple of modifications such as a 1873 marked breech block. Your video was very interesting.
I have an 1873 45-70 that’s been handed down in my family since it was new. It’s unaltered and unrestored in excellent condition. I’ve never shot it. I want to.
Just make sure when you go to fire it that you get ammunition that is appropriate for it. There is high pressure .45-70 made for modern hunting rifles that is too strong for the trapdoor.
Great video! I just picked up a 1873 Springfield with stamp that looks like a1878. The entire gun including all metal parts looks like its coated and dried with a lacquer. Why is it coated? and do you have a recommendation on a good way to get this dried lacquer off?
Hello, I purchased this 1884 Springfield trapdoor rifle yesterday. It came with an unusual single hook on each end, leather sling that I knew was not correct for the gun. After looking online, it shows a lot of similarities to the Civil War era slings. The only difference is where the hooks are, the leather is normally doubled over and stitched on the originals. This one is not. I am hoping that someone has seen this sling and can identify it. Also thought that perhaps it was originally doubled over and broke loose and re-attached without stitching, perhaps just cut down slightly. so if anyone knows the actual length of the originals that would help. Looking forward to any information you may have. Thank you.
Richard A. Hosmer’s North Cape book on “The .58 & .50 Caliber Rifles & Carbines of the Springfield Armory 1865-1872” is useful, and appears to be available on Kindle, though the print versions are expensive. Albert J. Frasca’s “The .45-70 Springfield, Book II, 1865-1893” is probably the best source for the early guns. It appears to be also out of print, and expensive, but good information.
I have a Trapdoor Springfield 1873 Model that was made in 1883. I know this by the serial number. However, it has the initials P F on the stock which may belong to an ancestor of mine since my last name starts with a F. Was curious if there was a way to find out more of the history of the gun by the serial number.
One other difference with the 1873 to 1884 (from what I heard, not sure if true) is the '84 lost the spring in the firing pin so you could visually see/feel if it was loaded, kinda early loaded camber indicator. Any knowledge on that rumor?
mine is an 1886, is it supposed to have a Ram rod with it? mine does not have one, but the groove is there for it? I guess, your saying its a cleaning rod. I also could not get the knob to turn at the top of the buffington site. the windage site turns well. I also noticed the front band that holds the barrel to the wood has become a little loose, is this something I should have a gunsmith fix? or is it something I should leave alone for the patina and age?. I don't plan on firing it in my lifetime. my local gunsmith reccomended that I used Renaisance wax on it with a gun stock and just store it away? thoughts? answers? Do you have any connections where I can buy an original cleaning rod for that particular weapon. I know nothing about antiques firearms. I would love to have it complete with an original bayonet as well
RYI: My 1870 (serial 4990x) has the long receiver & site your 1868 has but is dated 1870 above the eagle, with 1863 dated lock plate. I have no doubt there is a huge # of variations as they progressed.
Hello, If I have one that is labeled "US. Model 1878" on the top of the trap door your saying this is actually an 1873? Does this mistake in the Dye process increase the value of the weapon? Is there a way to track the history of the rifle by serial number?
Adam, I believe you’re correct. Also, Duelist1954 describes it as such. First click is safety, just enough to get the hammer off the butt of the firing pin. Second click is half-cock which allows manipulation of the trapdoor and loading. Third click is full cock.
Nice video but quick question. Had the U.S. Government converted older Allen conversions into the newer patterns. Also what about a lot of the foreign bought Rifles muskets, did the U.S. just threw them away or did they did conversion similar to the Allen?
The pre-1873 models weren’t in service long enough really to be updated. Since the Model 1873 was built of mostly all new parts, there wouldn’t have been much call for upgrading the older ones. Model 1868 & 1870 rifles were amongst those sold surplus to France during and after the Franco-Prussian War. Some 1865 & 1866 rifles were later shortened, but this is believed to have been mostly for cadet use at various schools, and not done by the government. Some early Model 1873s had their breechblocks upgraded, and, I believe, their rear sights. I don’t know of any upgrading of 1873s to later models. The foreign weapons brought in for the Civil War were mostly sold off as surplus soon afterward as they were non-standard. You can build a whole collection of them today,
I have a trapdoor springfield that has a 1873 stamp on the receiver without the buffington rear sight which is correct for the early trapdoors. The odd thing about the gun is the stock is stamped 1898. I can’t find any trapdoors made past 1892. Can you give me any info on it?
I have a model 1884 that was military issue marked with a 6 F 29 on the but stock S# 515256 would you happen to have any info on when/where it was issued?
That serial number is not in any of my books. Your Model 1888 was likely manufactured in 1891. With those markings it sounds like it was issued to some state’s 6th volunteer infantry regiment, company F, probably during the Spanish-American War.
Hi very informative. I was just given a trapdoor with serial #9, lock plate 1864, breech 1869... shorter receiver like the 1870, ramrod like the 1868... I believe I have heard that there is a second round of production on the 1868 that featured the shorter receiver. Any input is appreciated. In any event thanks for the video.
Hi. That sounds like a Model 1869 Cadet rifle. I don’t have any of the cadet models. If it lacks sling swivels, it is likely a cadet model, made for use in military groups in schools. Whether it is an original, ‘as built’ Model 1869, or a Model 1870 rifle that was later converted to a cadet type is something it would take someone far more familiar with these rifles than me to answer.
@@SearTrip maybe, it does have sling swivels and the 32.5" barrel not the shortened barrel for cadets... also it has the thicker lock plate... any advice on books or websites for me to dig deeper? thanks!
@@SearTrip This one aside from my breech being 1869 is the same otherwise www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-civil-war-springfield-m-1863-rifle-converted-to-m-1870-trapdoor-using-allin-system-dated-1864?variant=31883395694661
Actually Grant didn’t become president until 1869. When he made the decision to not use the .45 and go with the .50, he was Commanding General of the U.S. Army.
My grandfather has a model 1884 that has been passed down my family that I have been told was used in the Spanish American war. Im not sure how true this was as the conflict happened over a decade after they were produced. But it hasn’t been fired since its original owner used it and my grandfather wants to take me to go check it out by a gunsmith or something, or at least that was the plan before 2020 happened. But does anyone have any idea what to do to get the gun checked professionally (check the serial number to see how it was used or something). Live in Massachusetts btw.
While the Regular Army was armed with Krags in the Spanish-American War, most of the Volunteer units were still armed with Trapdoors. So it is possible yours was used then. Springfield Research Service can provide information on where some of these rifles were issued, for a fee. I have some of their older books that have some info., if you have the serial number I can look it up.
This Gun literally has no popularity in media as I have never see it used in a single movie. One day I want to Animate a Character that uses this elegant weapon so that the Trapdoor Springfield gets the representation it deserves. I mean yeah it is awesome that its in Red Dead Redemption 2 but that not enough for me.
Pretty much all of the old westerns that have the US Military in them used these rifles. Prevalent in the Indian War Era movies of the mid to upper 1800's
