Correction: Since the bludgeoning damage from Dao can only be applied on your turn, the Crusher Feat can only be applied on your turn. For one thing (and probably the main thing), the "Power Move" can only be applied if you do it with an attack on your turn, not on an opportunity attack.
I'd love to see another collab. Where you do one for each of the subclasses and then optimise it as a party. And talk about how you can optimise a party rather than just as an individual character.
The absolute win for Colby is that he taught Treantmonk(!) a new trick and blew his mind with it (the distant spell use on Word of Radiance). It is good to see someone you thought already knew everything actually learning something new.
Hey there, Colby is a great optimizer as well as Chris. Its always nice to see optimization with different lenses. Thats the fun part about D&D, there are so many different ways to have fun with the game and build your character to fit your concept.
It’s a good example of what Colby brings to the table. Distant spell Word of Radiance probably isn’t the best possible thing you can do with those sorcery points on an optimized build, but it’s creative, effective, unexpected, and fun.
Right? He has such a lovely smile too, I never realized till this video where it comes up so often! idk, his whole face seems to smile along with his mouth :P
"You're in a party, man!" This is why I love your takes, Chris. Your optimization doesn't just look at a character in isolation, you also always keep in mind that bringing out the best from your team is crucial. Great collab, very cool discussions.
Really enjoyed the Team up! Chris is on point as always moving quickly and effectively through the content balanced well with Colby’s careful and thoughtful approach to a build. The video was longer than normal but I'm glad they took the time to have some banter and share the story of how their paths crossed. I was a watcher of each content creator separately but was happy to see the calibration... It was a success. Rather than future build together (or maybe on occasion) I would love to see the two discuss newly released books/sub-class content, I think they each bring a a different perspective that plays off the other well. Also kudos to Chris for letting Colby present his take on the build first... the man knows the game so well he can always add something even of they presents the exact same build.
As a ranger fan, to bad no swarm keeper. However, as someone who played a rune knight before and thinks it’s the funnest fighter subclass, this still pleases me
The optimization community may not be large, but you've both got broad reach in that regard. I'm by no means an optimizer, I play vanilla single class characters all the time and I love both your channels!
This concept of videos is just great. Showing different sollutions to problems helps us understand how you think about problems, rather than just provide a sollution (which you also do, 2 sollutions in fact). I also like the dynamic between the two of you. Other ideas for 2 builds in one video would be: - 2 builds of a certain role (tank, striker (melee/range), cc, etc.) - 2 builds of a specific race, taking advantage of their bonuses. - 2 unconventional race/class combos that are still effective. --- I thought the spellcaster addition to both builds really made them shine, so my take on a build like this would be to get to lvl 5 spellcaster much sooner.
To build on Colby's discussion of Word of Radiance, A) I'm not sure it's ever worthwhile to spend sorcery points on a cantrip. Just because it is a bit better than your bonus action attack in several ways, I think those limited points would generally be better spent quickening Bless or Enlarge if you need to cast them after initiative is rolled, so they aren't impeding your regular attacks. And more importantly, B) I'm reasonably sure you can't use Distant Spell on Word of Radiance after you've quickened it. Right? Can anybody remind me which metamagic option can be combined with others? I'm pretty sure there's only one of those. In any case, having a fresh discussion about interactions you've never considered before is always super cool. 10/10, would encourage more collabs in the future!
I need to start putting my builds online so I can chat with these nerds. Love them. Love these kind of conversations. I think these two really could create the ultimate character together.
Already watched this over on the dndoptimized's channel, but am rewatching and liking it here because man, this collab rocked. I'm really looking forward to the next one.
Great and really interesting builds. I've been theorycrafting the more martial/holier side of this build: a Paladin 10+/Hexblade 1+, Rune Knight 3+. maximizing charisma and nearly doubled effective range when enlarged for Protection and Courage aura, Interception, Aura of the Guardian, Sword Burst, Arms of Hadar. Quicker range increase than paladin 18, that's for sure. Enlarge/Reduce for a Sorcadin unfortunately takes up concentration and makes Rune Knight (for both rune passives and actives and the one time 1d6 for a class with only 2 attacks) looks so good as even only a 3 level dip. thanks for the collab you two! both channels are great.
Just wanted to leave a like and a comment for the algorithm and say great job, since I watched it over on Colby's channel (just because it came in my feed first). Same request I made to him: on the next collab (let it begin!), split it into 2 sections so you can each post a part and get credit for a full watch through! But honestly, great job to both of you, and I especially appreciated your enthusiasm. You looked honestly gleeful the entire time, positively glowing.
The tough thing I found about this class when I played it in UA was the action economy. There ends up being so much you want to do that you have to make sure you don’t overwrite your ability or create redundancy within your build. Like you are always going to use your reaction for the cloud rune for advantage/disadvantage- be it for rogues, saving throws etc. Makes deciding on feats etc quite difficult. That being said it was my first ever character and probably one of my favourite subclasses in the game. Fighters are my favourite class (despite everyone telling me they are trash and boring) and this just met what I want from the class so well. Giant’s Might is maybe a bit meh in terms of damage past 3, but every little helps and the runes are the thing that makes it! Edit: btw this vid was great
Currently playing a Forge Cleric 1/Rune Knight X (currently 4) goliath. Party was low on healing, so the cleric got me a free magic weapon and some mild healing for the party. First ASI was Crusher feat, which goes well with dueling fighting style with shield and a war hammer. I'm primarily a magic user normally, but I've had a lot of fun with this subclass.
Glad to see collaborations between two good RU-vidrs. Now I have to watch it on Colby’s channel. Best but was Chris’ face when he realised what a distant spell wowed of radiance would do.
Howdy! Its great to see some of my favorite content creators collaborating on something together! The Dungeon Dudes also do a similar build of characters.
This was amazing! I love both of your channels, the work you are doing and this collaboration. It is so great to see the appreciation you give to each other and to see both of you having so much fun doing this! Please do this again, I watched it all the way to the end and I still wanted more!
Great video! Never knew Treatmonk was based in Calgary, thats awesome I used to live in Banff and Canmore for a bit. Calgary was great to visit too for shopping days. But back in Ontario now.
This is a really good video. Hope you guys get together again. After a lot of time watching treantmonk, d4, pack tactics, tabletop builds, etc…. Chris is my pick for master of practical optimization, and my personal favorite channel. D4 is excellent because he has creative ideas that may not be as practical/optimal as the builds Chris presents, but show a lot of other interesting ways to play the game. Pack and tabletop are where I go when I want fodder to use for (offline) debates with my DM.
Really fun seeing the two of you bouncing ideas off each other. Two things to keep in mind about Colby's build: Divine Magic does not let you pick cleric spells only on level-up. It lets you pick them *whenever you can select or replace a sorcerer spell*. So you can get Word of Radiance at level 1. Not much different in the long run. The other thing is more important: Giant's Might does not grow you "one size category." It grows you to Large, no matter your size. This means 1) small characters still become large, meaning a kobold rune knight would be *hilarious,* and 2) you have to go Giant's Might *before* casting Enlarge on yourself if you want to become Huge.
The RAW are "If you are smaller than Large, you become Large, along with anything you are wearing. If you lack the room to become Large, your size doesn't change." So a halfling Rune Knight becomes Large, not one size larger. I am imagining a halfling folk hero who is ambushed and left for dead by medium-sized, mocking opponents. He/She advances his studies to become a Rune Knight to seek revenge against those who bully small folk. Treantmonk, you can run your favorite race and be Large! A Bard/Rune Knight multiclass can get expertise in athletics (grappling), and this feels perfect for a Bard folk hero who starts off with more bravado than actual combat prowess. (I'm thinking about Jaskier in The Witcher). An Enlarge spell gets you Huge, which for a cheerful halfling makes me think of Stay Puft Marshmallow Man in Ghost Busters. Which happens to be the same size as a Treant. If you go Lotusden Halfing, you get spike growth without multiclassing.
Great collaboration, would definitely be interested in more in the future. I’ve been watching you for the past year and found him a couple weeks ago. The back and forth was a lot of fun. 👍
First of all: thaank you for this quality content! And is so wonderful you are making the optimizer community a little bit bigger with this colaborations! Now I'm following two awesome channels. I would love to see a nice optimized Clockwork Soul Sorcerer! ;)
I’ve been watching both of your videos for months now and just found this because I’m thinking of playing a rune knight, highly recommend you both do this again with another A tier subclass
After watching this, I feel like I missed out by not clicking D&DO’s recommended videos before. It’s long, but the video is great so far, thanks for the collab!
So stoked to learn your Canadian and in Calgary! I'm in Saskatoon, but visit Alberta and the mountains often cuz SK is so boring haha. Collabs like this are awesome and I love your vids and builds!
I don't know if you're going to be doing more videos in this format again but, with how much background you're each not using, you should have cut off the sides of your videos so there would be less black bars on the top and bottom.
Giant’s Might does not increase size by one (as stated in the video). Instead: "If you are smaller than Large, you become Large". This is particularly fun for small sized characters to use heavy weapons. It also means the combo with enlarge reduce has to be done in the correct order (reverse order was mentioned). Also worth noting is this can be combined amusing with polymorph or wild-shape (ex: turn into a tiny creature, then become a large version of it: mega pixie for example). Optimization wise, I don't think this adds anything comparable to the excellent builds in the video, but it adds some room for fun.
Great collab, and I’m not gonna lie a bit proud you guys didn’t snatch the low hanging dpr fruit that is GWM. I thought Colby would once he took Sentinel.
This is my favorite build. The more I think about it thought the bigger of an area a character in 5e "controls" the less they control it. This is due to the ability for movement in threatened spaces. Look at the area a large creature with 10ft reach controls. Now look how much a hostile creature can move around and behind the character while still in that threatened area. Seems counter productive.
This radio-show style content with the two of you is great. I listened while at work, wonderful Also, the slashing+bludgeoning melee attacks with slasher crusher + the word of radiance when you are large/huge- Those are exactly the things I enjoy while white room theory crafting. Also you should do a gauntlet playing together like colby did! Anyway greatly enjoyed, thanks!
I was initially pretty disappointed in the choice to build Rune Knights, but little did I know that it would result in two new PAM builds (something I had been looking to build anyways). Great job from both parties. I'm not normally the biggest fan of Colby's builds, but this was a nice change of pace.
YESSS. It's here. Such a great collaboration guys, you two have awesome chemistry. Like two kids building awesome lego forts. Just such good vibes. Chris, it's time to get Bilbron into the fold. You're the ambassador for the optimizing community! You have the power.
Currantly playing a Lotusden halfling Rune knight polearmmaster(quaterstaff) with 4lvls of barbarian ancestrial guardian in a homebrew campaign! having tons of fun! great vid guys!
I hadn’t heard of Colby’s channel yet, thanks for introducing him to us! I feel bad for correcting him, but a couple of things specifically were incorrect. -Giants might doesn’t make you “one size larger”, it makes you large if you’re smaller. Mostly inconsequential for this build, but an important distinction if someone is a small race. Although you wouldn’t be able to enlarge yourself on a prior turn and then giants might yourself as a BA to still have your action free. -Enlarge/Reduce also doesn’t “make you one size larger”, it doubles the size in all dimensions. So Giants Might+Enlarge doesn’t make you 3x3, it makes you 4x4, which would mean even more threatened squares. So his idea is even stronger than he thought 👌 Fantastic vid, I hope you two decide to collaborate again in the future 🙂
This was an amazing video idea! Two very creative builds that are both similar and unique. You definitely have to do this more! (Also I really liked your talk about dpr and how range is not taken into account)
The word of radiancr thing is doable in one turn. Ba giant might action enlarge than action surge word of radiance. If you have a way to get to the center of a large group of enemies you can totally drop an aoe bomb
Good comparison! I hope to make a rune knight in the future, possibly with an arena fighter/performance build. That one was VHuman and had a plan, but now I will look closer at the options mentioned here.
Great video Chris, very good colab, I knew in my heart you would take something to care about Wis save. I just didn't knew if you would choose resiliant or lucky. Also maybe a colab with Bilbrons & Dragons, and with Pact Tactics. Do it the fantastic 4 of Optimization.
Best fighter control feat is still UA, Tunnel Fighter. (Reaction free opportunity attack). For grappler take Loxodon or Simic Hybrid for 1 or 2 grapple limbs while keeping 2 hands free for standard fighting gear. For extra size ignore spell and use potion of growth. Costs more but lasts longer and it’s concentration free. Down the road (or perhaps home brew allowed) a further size bump could be gained if Duergar becomes a playable race.
