Any idea how long I can go without charging the R134 into my system? I just got my Sure Fit Interior unit I have all my firewall forward stuff I got on my own there is inert gas in the lines on the condenser/drier I am holding off on letting the gas out because I was told not to but I need to finish the connections after all everything is in place just this one step missing
Thank you for the video. I plan to install auxiliary electric fan with this setup to my vintage air IV. Should I mount the fan to the radiator or the condenser? Or can I have two fans one on the radiator with this setup and another on the condenser which starts once the compressor is engaged? Appreciate any feedback
Hello, I currently have a mechanical engine fan but at some point I may add an electric fan. Question is can I use a trinary switch and use it like a binary until I need/add the electric fan? Just cap off the blue wire till needed?
Good to know I have a video reference now for your Vintage Air systems for my customers who want to install their own systems from Vintage Air. I’ve had many of my customers on their classic cars install the Vintage Air systems there a quality product just follow all the procedures correctly and it will work. Vintage Air gets a thumbs up as a product I approved to be installed 👍
So would pressure in the system drop with cooling from highway driving and turn off the fan but keep the compressor engaged? Would hate to have my fan running in a scenario when its not needed like driving 60mph down the highway
Dillon, Yes as long as there is airflow over the condenser the HS pressure will drop, now will it drop down enough for proper AC performance? this is why the trinary is so helpful in keeping the HS pressures down. The trinary will request the fan when the pressure in the AC system demands it (HS 254 psi fan engage/175 psi fan disengage), so if the highway airflow is not dropping the HS pressure enough the trinary will kick on the fan when the pressure has reached 254 psi on the high side.
Running both fans for AC purposes is not necessary, but it is possible. You would take the blue wire from the trinary safety switch and splice an additional wire, then the two wires will go to the ground switch leg of the existing fan relays. If you only wanted one fan to run with the AC request you would run the blue wire to the fan relay you choose. You mention operating temperature, if you are talking about the fan engagement for engine cooling having both fans will assist in keeping the temp. underhand. The trinary safety switch will engage the fan when the pressure in the high side is within the working ranges of 254 psi fan/engaged - 175 psi fan dis-engage. Only the temp. sensor will cycle the fans for engine cooling
Sorry to hear of this, is the entire system cutting out? or are you referring to the compressor cutting off? If your speaking about the entire system cutting out i would first investigate the main power, grounds to the battery and violet wire termination to a 12v "key on" source.Then locate the main and control panel harness where they plug into the ECU and verify that the connectors are pressed into the ECU until you hear a click indicating the connector is secure.( also inspect for wires that may be pulling out of the connector block) If you were talking about the compressor cutting out, this may be a normal function of the compressor cycling, or it could indicate an issue with the pressures.I would give our technical support team a call or msg (210-654-7171 or tech@vintageair.com)so we can look a bit further into your symptoms and send you any relevant data to assist in the troubleshooting.
I utilized the method outlined here, and fans would not operate. Stay with the binary switch, and use another relay, activated by AC relay, to switch temp switch lead to ground, doesn't fail.
@VintageAir…have you guys ever considered making a 6V electric driven AC system that looks vintage for cars of the 20’s-30’s cars? We have a 1927 Buick and would LOVE to have an AC system that we could totally hide but still have the comfort of AC so we could enjoy our car year round!!!! Even better if it’s had a reverse option that would provide some heat too!!! Just an idea…. Not sure how hard it would be, with your expertise, to make a system that we could hide under the seat box that would be driven off an electric motor to turn a compressor ( could be an all in one unit like some of the newer marine systems are) and again run off 6V!! What you think?
electric driven compressors and 6v are one of those things that conflict. We have found that even 12v systems will not produce enough amperage to spin an ele. compressor and with 6v it would get even tougher. In the future we may develop a 6v system but currently we do not not is there any future kits in the works.
On a 3 wire fan system, you would have a common ground. You would have a colored wire , say blue, that is wired in series to both fans which would be your low speed. Then you would have another colored wire, say red, that when activated puts power to both fans in parallel which gives you high speed. You would have your low speed operating when the AC is on and the one relay in his diagram would be running both fans off of the blue wire. You would have another relay wired in with the same leads as the first one but your ground would be to the temperature sensor and your power to the fans would go to the red colored wire, high speed. So you turn on your AC, the trinary switch activates the first relay and you are running at low speed, your temperature sensor we'll say comes in at 180 and grounds the second relay which kicks your fans up to high speed. You need the second relay to get high speed. Hope this all makes sense as others have asked this same question.
@@mlone7 this is a great explanation, clear and simple. Where we run into complaints is: in wiring it this way we are removing control of the fans completely from the ECM. Most stand alone harness use the ECM ground signals from the ECM to control fans. How would you explain to them how to tie into these ground signals? Or do you recommend capping them off and not using them ? (I know I'm a year too late) but this is the most common problem I run across in the "LS swap world" .
@@jasonhull5712 I would cap them off and run it like I described. Your AC on an older vehicle doesnt use an ECM and I have always thought they complicated the system with more sensors, on the AC system itself, which the ECM controlled. Im a KISS type of guy. In the LS world, I computer the motor and trans if needed but all the other garbage, I eliminate. I dont mean to sound like I know a lot about LS conversions, as I have only done 2 but what I did with them worked great. Kind of like a Vulcan Mind Meld of old and new technology.
@@mlone7 I don’t know if it’s simply frustration do to lack of planning or just not understanding what it is that two systems are intended to accommodate. I am just the type of person that likes to help, therefore I think I get a lot of the frustration directed at me. The LS is a really good platform And is simple enough, when using the factory setup. It’s adding in multiple aftermarket components together that was never meant to go together is when folks get into trouble. This stuff is not overly complicated to me, However I can completely understand how it would get overwhelming. But like you mentioned, I am just happy to have the option to even have A/C on a 50 year old muscle car with the efficiency and reliability of a modern car.
As long as the drier is in the #6 liquid line, away from high heat sources and installed vertical and plumb you can place the drier in several locations (including in the fender if it can fit with the appropriate orientation)
I will be switching from a binary to a trinary switch on a car where the AC system has been charged already. Is it ok to remove the binary switch from the dryer and not have any issues?
you will need to evacuate the system of refrigerant before removing the binary safety switch, otherwise you may get a face full of refrigerant. as you remove the binary with a charged system the Freon will escape.
Do you have a series where you use an ecu to interface with the vintage air unit and trinary switch and clutch to know when the ac is on to then control fan and idle up etc??
I would consider the GEN IV series, if you need a system that cycle the fans for AC purposes you would simply use our trinary. but as far as an idle up provision no,however we can supply the correct signal from the Vintage Air unit to an idle up solenoid (we do not offer the solenoid)if your talking about simply monitoring the systems functions yes, but an external operating system cannot be used to do any of the AC functions
Interesting video but I am thoroughly confused. I am restoring a 1959 Impala using 1959-60 Chevrolet Full-Size/El Camino with 4-Lever Controls 561056. These instructions show 2 different ways to connect the trinary switch, neither of which is the same as this video. To further complicate my situation I have an EFI system run by an ECUMaster block, which operates the electric fan to start automatically. If I connect the Vintage Air according to this video will it cause a problem with the other setup?
Hervey,In the instruction booklet it has basic info. for either the binary or trinary safety switch wiring (whichever applies to your set up), This video covers the "in depth" theory and operation of the trinary safety switch. So the trinary will engage the fan via the relay trigger, if your existing fan system has a fan relay you would use the standard trinary wiring as shown in the video. But if you do not you would supply the ECU with the correct signal(+ or ground)from the trinary that will then tell the ECU to kick on the fan (AC request wire)If you want to send us the info on the EFI system you are using to our technical support team at tech@vintageair.com we will assist you with the proper wiring recommendations.
On the GEN II units it will tie into the thermostat at the controller, on the GEN IV &V units it will use a thermistor and ECU to interpret the coil temp and provide the correct compressor cycle rate/duration.
I have a vintage air system in my 85 c-10 chevy it was for a factory air set up im having problems with the cooling , it works great for a few min blowing about 38-40 degrees then the compressor kicks out, if i shut the ac off for 2 seconds and turn it back on it starts up and works again and cycles fine i have to do this 3 -4 times on a 30 min drive, when its working it will freeze you out but then it stops working so i slide the fan contoll all the way off then back on then theres about a 2 second delay then compressor kicks back on again , i tried temporaly bypassing the high side saftey switch behind the grill, it made no difference so its got to be the thermostat or something else or its freezing up , the refrigerant is dead on and the pressures look normal when its running and when the system does work its ice cold,and it cycles on and off to maintain the cab temp but its like you have to reset the electronic brain of the system every few min for some reason , it seems a little better if i run the fan about mid way and it doent seem to mater if its hot or cool, water dripps out the condensation line when its working as it should, any ideas on what it could be would be greaty appreceated
Question, if the rotary AC thermostat is somewhat compromised , will it send less then 12 volts to the compressor?, such as 11.6 or 7?, and does that matter?
Generally speaking, no. if the thermostat goes out it will generally not send any voltage "output" the T-stat is fed voltage from the fan switch and if the fan switch is receiving low voltage I can see how the T-stat would be receiving the low V signal. the T-stat output would need to be 12V so the compressor clutch would properly engage.
I have a Gen 4 system it works sometimes sometimes not, if you shut the whole system off then back on it engages and cools then shuts off again, i hot wired the compressor with a toggle switch and i just regulate it myself watching the vent temp and i shut it off if it gets too cold, its fine in the hot summer cause the comprssor runs most of the time anyway and i dont drive more than 10 miles anywhere , the system is ice cold and water just pours out when its working so i dont know if its a t state problem or that pressure switch on the condensor, mabey too much refrigerant i know this isnt the right way to fix it , but ive had it like this for years , i want to fix the problem, any suggestions?
If you were having power cut off at the compressor it would either be the thermostat or the safety switch that is not allowing the signal to reach the compressor clutch (which may be normal) i would contact our technical support staff at 210-654-7171(follow the tech support prompts) or tech@vintageair.com and they will send you reliant test procedures and tips to identify what the issue may be. make sure to have the high/low pressures on hand so they can help troubleshoot the issue.
@@va197653 I probably have too much refrigerant in it, i didnt have a scale when i put it in but i did vaccum it down real good, sometimes it will cycle on and off for a day or two but it always stops cooling if i go very far but if you shut it completely off and turn it back on it will click on , i just want to fix it right.
@@jbncnow Charging by weight is very important, you will want the system to have the correct capacity for the best performance. And if the system is over/undercharged the safety switch may be causing the comp. to cut out.ideally you should shoot for 6-20 psi on the low side and double the ambient temp.+15-20% for the high side, adjust the pressure to hit the target pressures then see if the comp. is then cutting out.I would also try clamping off both heater hoses gong to the heater core to see if it improves.
You can use one relay for a dual fan set up but it will need to be a larger amp relay, with our dual fan set up we use a 70 amp relay, for single fan set ups we use a 30 amp relay.
If you copy and paste this link into the youtube search bar a video will pop up showing the install and details of the monster brushless fan. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-m19BKpd1KEg.html
Great info, great video i have kw w900 ac wires were cut on accident? Ac not working Ac compressor in front of engine 1 wire with ac dryer next to it wire trianary switch all 4 wires cut , have engine harness right their that runs trough engine tru firewall i believe goes to ac control.unit .. my issue is how can I figure out which wires are what ? And how to re wire this unit ? Any advice i would great appreciate it .
generally the trinary is two circuits and the circuits should have a different wire color, so first identify the color groups.(1) circuit will be the compressor circuit and the other circuit will be for the cooling fan.But as far as which color wires are for which circuit i do not know. your best bet would be to pull up the Kenworth wiring diagram and look for the color wire set for the compressor, then you will know which circuit is for AC and the other wire set at the trinary will be for the cooling fan.
@@va197653 ok understood makes sense , also just found it has solonoid valve for the fan , this is where I'm confused would that be wire to trinary fan switch side also what does that valve do ?
@@MrSehka77 Im not super familiar with Kenworth systems but it is most likely a fan clutch solenoid which engages the fan when requested. Wish i could be more help but we specialize in hot rods and classics and clutch solenoids are not used in these vehicles.
When the high side reaches 254 PSI the condenser will need the fan to kick on to shed the heat. Once engaged the fan will cause the high side to drop quickly until it reaches 175PSI in which it will trigger the fan "off".Basically its a cycle rate to shed the heat removed from the cabin via the condenser.
@@va197653 thanks for your reply! Is this helpful for variable compressors? This sensor combined with a larger condenser seem like a good way to keep the noise down. Allowing this to trigger either the other fan on or both to run at a higher speed. Would you agree?
The trinary was designed for one fan engagement, but if you want both fans to kick on when the AC system requests it you would take one of the blue wires and split the wire into two wires then run them individually to the ground trigger side of the fan relays.
Kalvin, Please contact our technical support team at 1-210-654-7171 or tech@vintageair.com and they will provide the appropriate wiring assistance to wire the safety switch to a Holley system. in most cases it is a simple hook up to interface with an aftermarket ECU.
I HAVE A QUESTION TO YOU SIR.. FROM WHERE DOES THE VOLT CURRENT COME TO THE AC SWITCH? AND WHY CAN'T THE AC SWITCH BE IN THE ON POSITION IF THE BLOWER SWITCH IS STILL IN THE OFF POSITION. TQ SIR.
The Ac switch on GEN II systems will come from the fan speed switch or the temp switch on GEN IV units will be delivered power from the ECU. well you CAN have the AC switch set to "on" and the blower set to off but nothing will happen. the fan needs to be running for the AC engagement. otherwise, the coil could freeze up due to no air flow, also keep in mind that the fan switch is essentially the on/off switch.
The fan circuit on the trinary will typically have ground on one of the blue wires, We do illustrate this in our trinary wiring diagram. @ www.vintageair.com If you type into the search bar "TRINARY" and click on the PDF for part # 11086-VUS the wiring schematic will pop up showing the blue wire on the trinary going to ground. We do have other schematics for trinary wiring to some OEM ECU's and aftermarket fan controllers that do not take ground on one of the blue wires.
Why the BLUE AC output wire from the control head goes to a black/green wire in the trinary switch, and not the blue wire is a complete mystery, and really quite stupid.. It would be much more logical to have the blue wire from the control head go to the blue wire on the trinary switch, and the blue output wire from the trinary switch go to the AC compressor clutch, and the two black/green wires go to ground and the ground terminal for the fan relay, instead of what you have now. Makes for a less confusing and better looking install IMO.
we do have a PDF version of this wiring diagram, if you visit our website www.vintageair.com then type 11086-VUS into the search bar the trinary part info. will pop up, click on the download instructions tab and the PDF will show.
We have all the diagrams at our website www.vintageair.com if needing the trinary wiring click on the "instructions" tab then scroll all the way down until it says "wiring diagrams" here you will see the trinary wiring diagram. if you have any questions about the wiring you can contact our technical assistance dept by calling us at 210-654-7171 and follow the prompts to tech support or contact them at tech@vintageair.com
ToTALLY DISAGREE Trinary switch is only really beneficial for defrost during winter . No aux fan needed The reason why fan pressure switches are useless is Automotive condensers are about 50%size they need to be . All commercial equipment has at least 2--5x bigger condenser . Fixed displacement compressor . Good high side psi is 150--160psi at 110f . Performance at 160psi is wayway better than a system that operates at 240---250 psi . The only condenser fan to consider is a 12 inch 20amp pusher SPAL particularly on a single condenser fitted to vehicle . Always wired from the compressor wire signal to relay. Compressor on =fan on
This appears to be educational but could not watch the whole video because the music got on my nerves. Think about it...when a student is in class, the teacher is not playing annoying music.
its a car video. By default it is required to have royalty free blues playing for pensioners. Just like the snappy acoustic whimsy stuff people play when targeting millennials
Phil, Generally the safety switches will mount into the neck of the drier, in-between the inlet and outlet ports there will be a bolt. remove this bolt and install the safety switch in this location. If you look at the video the drier will be to the upper left of the fan assembly (black can with wire coming from it)This is the drier fitted with the trinary safety switch.
Phil, The saftey switch can be mounted in a few locations, the most common is the port on the neck of the drier.There will be a bolt between the entry/exit ports, remove the bolt and install the safety switch in its place. Dont forget the O-ring. Also make sure that you have evacuated the system of refrigerant prior to the bolt removal so the refigerant isnt purged into the atmosphere.
Correct, the two wire switch on the drier is a Binary safety switch. The trinary safety switch will replace the binary when electric fan(s) are being used.
