Great review, thank you! The high idle thing is a deliberate anti-stall feature (for a rider like me), or so I was told when I bought my 900. Just bought 1200 Rally Explorer and loving it!
I went for the 1200 Gt pro, and it's a lovely bike. I'm really really enjoying it. You are so correct about the starting hi idle and the pull you have in first and second sometimes its a real help when in slow moving traffic. It's taken some time for me to get used to it, and if I'm truthful it can be a pain. I did make several comments to the dealer about the excessive reving when letting the clutch out. I've been told it's an anti stall system. I'm sure the GS is a great bike. BMW have had years to perfect the bike I just don't like the look of the boxer engine. If your looking at getting the Triumph, it is a lovely bike wait till you open her up the induction noise is intoxicating.
Hi Tony, I have the Rally Explorer, and have had issues since i took delivery of it in July. Intermittent stalling when pulling off from a standstill, Hard to start from cold. Eventually Triumph admitted there IS an issue, and requested a hot and cold ECU check at the dealers, who i have to say have been brilliant ( Staffordshire Triumph). I was stopped from riding the bike by the dealer due to the stalling as a safety issue. Triumph have now issued a software update, which seems to have cured the issues. The bike once its pulled away i find brilliant. Handling, comfort and all the toys are really good. But youre right, its not a GS. I had Gs's for 10 years, and may go back to them yet. Thanks for the great review of this bike
Euro 6 bikes run very lean down low in the rev range and love to stall, the high idle once you put it in gear and start to let the clutch out is Triumph's solution.
Lots of modern cars have the increased idle thing, it’s anti stall as others have said but I also think it allows a lower idle speed as well for fuel figures.
Owned a 2016 12GS and had a couple issues with it, but overall it was a great bike. I now own the 1200 Rally Explorer, and have nearly 6k miles on it, with zero issues. The Tiger is better off road than the GS, except at low speeds. The GS has more low end grunt. The front end of the GS always felt vague to me while riding off road, always feeling like it was about to wash out, which I attribute to the the Telelever suspension. Having owned the GS, I can now speak to the hype surrounding it. BMW states that well over 90% of GS riders will never take their bike off road. I imagine most Triumph owners won’t either.. The best analogy I can give that’s comparable is this.. here in the states, and here in Colorado especially, we have a ton of Jeep Wranglers, all lifted, huge tire/wheel combinations, winch, several Rotopax, and off-road lights galore.. and, 90+ percent of those Jeeps will never, ever be taken off road. The GS is the same situation.. people watch Ewan and Charlie riding around the world and want to be just like them.. Anyway, I’m rambling.. what I’m trying to say is that buying a GS, or any other bike, attaching panniers, crash bars, etc.. doesn’t make any bike an ‘adventure bike’. Riding your GS from Colorado to Florida isn’t an adventure, it’s just a road trip, and nearly any motorcycle will do that..
The fast idle is actually an anti stall feature. If you are in neutral or with the clutch full in it will idle normally. In gear and clutch part out it increases idle to reduce stall as you pull away. My 2018 tiger has the same feature just less prominent.
Yep I get that, I had a 2108 Tiger 800 too. But this is much more marked, I could never pull away with my Tiger without at least some throttle, on this you can
Great, real world review. 3 big things for me 1. Cost. Why are bikes now so expensive? I really think the manufacturers now price them to get you in the pcp loop. And it's hard to get out of it without losing a lot financially. 2. The technology. How will it hold up after the 4 year warranty runs out? And how many non franchise dealers can work on it? 3. Size. At 5'9" ,put a pillion and luggage on it and I'm struggling when stationary. Especially on a camber. Love the fact Triumph are competing with the best of Bavarian, but in many ways it's just too much. Safe, happy travels 👍
Enjoyed your thoughts on the Tiger. Your thoughts and comments on the GS were well put also. We are all spoilt for choice really, it’s good that the BMW has set such a high bar for others to compete against. Will definitely try the Triumph when the next chance arises.
Yes the tiger, GS, KTM super adventure, Africa twin, V Strom XT etc are all really great bikes, so it’s down to personal preference of particular wants. The Tiger 1200 is a genuine GS alternative, but brand loyal customers are really hard to shift…..
With the revs picking up pulling the clutch in , my hayabusa had a TRE illuminated when you pulled the clutch in it picked the revs up 500rpm to help on down shifting like a blipper
I bought a new explorer march 2022 and I love it.. The cutch release and idle is a stall assist when you take off from stop and indicated by James Hutchens comment. This is not a fault. I had a stall issue when I would leave with a cold engine from my driveway at the start of the dat. Down my laneway to the stop sign and bike off. Also had cold start issues....I bought it to the dealer who advised there was an ECU update and didn't have the issues afterwards. That was late in the season last year so we'll see what spring 2023 brings. 3 year warranty will hopefully deal with any issues that pop up. Cheers!
Thanks for the info. I didn't the clutch issue was a fault its just more than i noticed on other bikes, a lot more. So the ecu remap just suggest Triumph are doing something about a potential stalling issue. But as i said in the video, its a minor issue and its a great bike.
That seems to depend on the manufacturer, is most cases historically the Kerbweight referes to the weight with all fluids as the bike would be on the road ready to ride. I've noticed that some manufacturers stipulate 90% of fuel, but certainly not all. From my understanding Kerbweight always referred to a full tank.
Good vid. It’s much bigger/taller in person. The modes are really cheeky. The on off throttle, and coming cruise control can be a bit rough. Heated seat and grips are really good. Super comfy seat and decent wind protection. I could use a wider screen. 🤔 (You missed the opportunity to help the lady move the car into parking.) 😉
Hi Tony. as always a very good and well presented review. I tried the tiger twice as I did several other AV bike including the Ducati Multi V4 and V2, to replace my 1250 GS. I was very Exited about the new tiger but felt a bit let down. In the end I test rode the KTM SAS 2022 and was blown away. Needless to say I bought mine 4 moths ago and am totally smitten.
The real pro it has over the GS is that (ignoring running in service)by 18k, the BMW has had three services and a valve check, whereas the Triumph has had one oil service. And they offer a GT Explorer, which is a road-biased GSA, which is not offered by BMW. I've had four GS/GSA's but I'm enjoying my Tiger 1200 Rally Explorer. No idling or stalling problems for me. In fact no problems at all. Enjoy!
I think I'm right in saying that the reason 90% fuel is used is because it is the 'standard' when adding other consumables ( such as oil & battery [?]) to go from 'dry' weight to 'wet' weight. Nice review.
It is very common to quote wet weight with 90% fuel load. BMW do the same. They state "Weight According to Guideline (EU) 168/2013 with all operating fluids, with standard equipment and refuelled with min. 90% of the usable tank capacity". Looking at your rider mode setup when you were pulled over, the road setup looks like the throttle response was set in Sport rather than Road. This is a fault of the dealers not resetting the bike from the last test rider who has made some changes. There is a RESET ALL in rider modes and I would encourage all testers to do this rather than relying on the dealer. This is getting quite common and I've seen many a demo rider with modified setups on the Tiger and being unaware of the fact.
I'm 6'1" and tried to sit on the Rally yesterday. It's just too high off the ground. It's fine when you are moving and don't have to stop much but if you are touring with a pillion and luggage and you get stuck in traffic jam you are in a bit if a pickle. I've had this happen a few times on my cruiser which I can flat foot and even i was struggling after 30mins of stop start crawl traffic. I'm not feeble either....lol. Coincidentally when I was at the dealership there was a fully accessorized including luggage Rally Explorer sitting there for sale with 1k on the odo. The owner couldn't handle the height and so swapped it for a Multistrada at a considerable cost.
Nice review Tony. I think your summary is spot on, it's an alternative to the GS but I can't see its USP other than its not a GS 🤔. Price, warranty etc are the same and most of the specs are also similar. I think if they had undercut BMW by a few thousand this would really tempt riders in triumphs direction. The one issue I had with the original tiger was how top heavy it was compared to the boxer GS, how did this new one compare? I don't pay any attention to wet weights on the spec sheet as it all about how the bike actually feels when you trying to manually move it around the garage. Keep up the great videos 👍
Cheers Darren. The bike definitely feels less top heavy than the previous model as well as my old 800. The beemer still ppis it in this respect though. Rolling it’s surprisingly nimble, but manhandling it around off the bike is an effort.
I've owned 4 gs's....they are a great bike....but the triumph beats it on overtake acceleration and the quick shifter is smoother....only one gripe....it wants android auto...the triumph connect app is rubbish.....Good review
My Multistrada V4S stalled a lot and I believe its due to Euro and California emissions (I'm USA based). Ended up needing to bypass charcoal canister and removing secondary vacuum for blow-by. My 2018 765 Street Triple RS also had same issue (stall on deceleration) and was never really resolved. High idle is likely due to stall out from emissions requirements so high idle is downloaded after delivery so factory isn't cheating emissions. I could be wrong. Just guessing.
My 2022 Scrarmbler 1200 does the revs rise when the clutch is let out thing as well. Not sure about the trundle along high idle thing but I have a feeling it does that too.
Hi.Enjoyed the Video. One Major issue i see in all the test ride reports , are the recalls ,warranty claims and General service History of the BMW GS1250/1200/1150/1100. I worked for a Multi Line Dealer for 13years. We Had Triumph, Ducati and BWM Brands.the BMW Bikes where the worst . Constant issues with rear Drives, ABS Pumps,Fuel Connectors and general service cost.The Triumps where excllent. Few Recalls and much lower service cost. A Future buyer should Look at the Cost History of owning a BMW. There not as Reliable as the Public Thinks.
Great review and totally concur with your view, why dont triumph do their own thing, all this RU-vid comparison stuff reminds me of the VW advert many moons ago, " if you want a Golf buy a Golf" want a GS buy one. Want something different buy a Multistrada or a Tiger..horses for courses !. Just remember if BMW hadn't set the bar so high all these other manufactures wouldn't be as good. I do think Triumph missed a trick by not keeping the straight triple, why would you jump from a twin to triple that thinks its a twin !.
Had 17 gs's and have a deposit on the upcoming 1300 ! However I have just bought the big triumph ! For me much nicer/better than the gs . All being well the 1309 gs will deliver but who knows !
Very good video Tony. I have a 2017 GS and have been looking to change, I tried the Tiger GT and Rally pro versions and thought they were very good, although I preferred the GT. In the end, two things put me off. The cockpit on the Tiger looks cheap with a pretty underwhelming TFT and horrible plastic brake and clutch reservoirs. The 2nd thing is the Triumph dealer and manufacturer backup. As a Thruxton RS owner, my experience is that both are really poor compared to BMW and if you look into it you will see that Triumph servicing costs are much higher for the avearge rider. I have decided to hold my GS and wait for the new model.
I wish they put the shaft drive on the 900. I tried the 1200 but it was too tall for me. Yep. Mine idles high as well. I told triumph and basically it’s the way it is. 😮
I agreed, the GS is ugly, but you can't knock them. They are top of the range. Great video, please keep them coming and I love your way of expressing your take on said machines,
Just curious about your thoughts on this bike. You wondered how many people would venture too far offroad on this bike. Do you wonder the same about GS riders? It would seem to me that a Rally Explorer would be every bit as capable offroad as a GS. Surely it can't be the type of bike. The type of owner, perhaps?
Hi Kevin, I was thinking more about the type of rider. Its a very capable bike as is the GS, but the vast majority see little dirt. I not knocking those people, I ride an frica Twin which only sees graded byways and tarmac. I think people who really want to hit more extreme off road would choose a different machine.
Well done review mate. Enjoyed it. Would love to try one. Who knows what is the real reason for that strange idling? Never rode a Triumph, but I would love to. Keep it up.
When it needs service the wrench icon constantly flashes back and forth between the time in the upper left hand corner. Super annoying when driving to have it keep flashing and can only be reset by the dealer. Plus that's where the indicator light is...
My question is this without trying to be anything or belittle the video or your views on the great otherwise Triumph. Why on God’s green earth everything has to be compared to a GS? In that sense every adv bike should be a GS or nothing else, right? I own a GS very pleased with it and never changing it. I ride the Tiger, the 1290-1090 Ktms and loved the GS hence I bought it. I’m not trying to defend the GS, it’s just a great bike for ME and that is all, yet again every manufacturer tries to build something compared to the GS… Beautiful video with the rain and stuff love the somewhat countryside! Job well done Sir👏👏
A good question, and I pitched the video that way purely because Triumph very openly said that they were aiming the tiger 1200 directly at the GS on its launch.
@@mancavemoto well let them say why they can build a two cylinder engine in the same chassis to imitate a GS… I mean they have already a drive shaft 😂😂😂 cheers
Great review. A bit, well a lot, over my budget!! Btw what gloves have you got on. Blooming cold today, high of 2 degrees in Derbyshire Heated gloves or heated grips?? Or both???? Best heated gloves with batteries as opposed to wired??
Thanks, aame here. They are the KEIS G701S and they work really well (heated grips and gloves together is amazing) There’s a few videos on my channel looking at various options
Even with heated everything it’s too cold at 2 degrees to go out. Especially with chill factor. Warmer in front of the fire watching your vids and no need to spend hours cleaning muck and salt off bike. Whereabouts are you in the uk?
Big draw for BMW is the European back up, also they're after sales guarantee is a 10 for me. Not saying anything neg towards Triumph the bike looks outstanding but for now I'll stay
Glad you said that, I've got the tri colour 22 adventure sport. Watched you video and just fitted the s4 lights and horn and hex easy can. Love it, the three bikes one was gs, the tiger, but it was africa twin that got me, best looking it just had something I can't explain.
Depends what you want. Just going on nothing but reputation, I'd favour the Honda for reliability. Infotainment is arguably better too. There is a list of compatible phones that work with the Triumph. Anything will work with the Honda. On the plus side for Triumph, it has shaft drive, which is a great thing on long trips. The Tiger has significantly more power, which not only makes it a lot more fun, but more practical riding two up, particularly with luggage and in hilly terrain. Comfort. The Tiger is one of the most comfortable bikes I've ever ridden. And finally, looks. Subjective, I know, but I think the Tiger is a much nicer looking bike than the Honda and I'm not a fan of the Honda's gawdy paint schemes. To each, their own though. Thank God we've got so many choices.
Yep it’s all horses for courses but some people get so hot under the collar about it! I’m looking forward to trying the new 890 Adventure S, that looks good. I’d also pick an Africa Twin over the GS or Tiger, because I just prefer the ergonomics and riding experience
I had a 2012 Explorer before changing to my first GSA in 2019; loved the bike so still hold a bit of a flame for this bike!! At ABRFEST2022 me and my mates rode the V2 & V4 MS, 1290 SAS and the Tiger 1200 which impressed me the most of the combo, though I'd find it hard to but one again as found the Dealer support is flawed. A great review though and never say never!!!
@@mancavemoto I’ve seen so much positivity about this bike and always loved the looks and attitude of the SAS and SAR, though wasn’t as impressive to ride but then again it was a guided loop around the park 🤔
But it’s not just a high idle is it. It picks up when the clutch is released so it’s been set up in the ecu map. Hence my question, it’s obviously an anti stall device
I almost quit watching it in the first 3 minutes because the review is over when you said it's not a GS. Why even review the bike when it's settled before you even get on it?
I think you missed the point of the video and that statement. I was framing the context of the review. Please don’t think that the only riding of the bike is what you see in the video. Nothing was decided ‘before’ getting on the bike at all.
@@mancavemoto Professional reviewers such as yourself always seem to reach the same conclusion with any bike that is not a BMW. It's not a BMW, so don't bother. It would be better for the entire community to just clarify which team you re on for before doing a review. Sigh...
Firstly I’m not a professional reviewer. That’s the point, there is no ‘team’ each bike is reviewed in its merits with no bias. Again you haven’t been able to grasp the context of the review. Me saying ‘it’s not a GS’ is making the point that hardcore GS fans would not switch regardless of how good another bike is. There’s no be polarised this one/that one answer. It’s a very good bike and I would probably pick it over the GS. But concept of ‘best’ isn’t categorical, it’s based on the riders preferences and opinions.
1300 comes out soon so everyone will be playing catch up again Once I’m bored of my tiger 800xca this and the gs second hand would be a option for me as I don’t like the look of the ktm at all and the Ducati is to expensive Be nice if triumph re released the tiger sport with a engine similar to the new speed triple in it
It will never match the GS because the Triumph will never have the low down weight distribution and Paralever/Telelever of the BMW. Good bike, but BMW has established the right formula.
@Man Cave Moto the triumph is a excellent motorcycle! But doesn't have the balance or the perfect stability under brakes of the gs! Don't get me wrong, the minute that is something better than the gs I'll buy it,but sadly the triumph still comes short! ( for me!)
GSA’s are not the best! Heavy and pricey! I’ll take a Triumph over a GSA and an Africa Twin over the Triumph unless of course the road to Starbucks is gravel, then it’s GSA. Lol. It all depends on what you want to do with the bike.
So how do you use most daily things if you're so adamant about boycotting German products?! Bosch has their finger in everything electrical, especially auto/motorcycle. Also curious why you have such disdain for a country as a whole.
