Trope analysis: in defense of the Chosen One 

Almost all tropes can be done well or poorly, but I think chosen one in particular is hugely dependent on the execution. For me, chosen one isn't a reason for me to pick up a book, but it also won't put me off a book. I think for the most part, I like the chosen one trope when it feels more like a burden. Wheel of Time and HP both do this really well. The main characters being chosen ones add to the struggles they go through. I don't like it when the chosen one just means the main character is naturally way more powerful than anyone else without any downside, or when they have no personality aside from being the chosen one.

"...I will say that if you haven't read Mistborn and like a chosen one trope, that's a great trilogy for you." 100%! What Brandon Sanderson did with the whole Chosen One thing really drew me in!

I agree with the "chosen ones not really being chosen ones". I always think it's weird when people call Katniss a chosen one. I think it's an interesting trope, because the prophecy can be used in two different ways: either it's inevitable and nothing anyone does can ever change it or it's more like a "guideline". People still get to make their own decisions which may or may not change the outcome. A chosen one and prophecies in general can make a great exploration about Destiny and the free will.

I absolutely love the chosen one trope when it is done right. There is something comforting in the familiarity of the story

If reading The Wheel of Time has taught me anything, it’s that maybe you don’t always want to describe everything. But if it’s taught me anything else, it’s that chosen ones can result in really interesting characters and stories

Great video! I’d definitely say Katniss and the Hobbits are Reluctant Heroes rather than chosen ones.

Spot on! All Chosen Ones are heroes, but not all heroes are Chosen Ones. I love the Chosen One trope, too. There's just something compelling about the dilemma between choosing and accepting your destiny that makes these stories that much more desirable to read.

Hi Nerds! Let's grab some popcorn and enjoy!😻

Most examples I like when the Chosen One trope is used is when it's deliberately subverted and deconstructed like A Song of Ice & Fire and Dune.

You are 100% right about Katniss, she is definitely not a chosen one. I feel like Bilbo and Frodo is a little more "gray" after all, there is that scene where Gandalf does say something about fate, and how Bilbo and Frodo were MEANT to have the ring. No prophesy of any note, but it could be argued they are chosen to bear the Ring.

I totally agree! The chosen one is probably my favorite trope too - such classic stories.

Having a prophesied Chosen One is in many ways an easy "in" for an author - instead of having to come up with reasons your character is special, you have one ready made for you with a whole weight of history behind it, and you already have direction for your story without having to go through too much agonising decision-making. I love a Chosen One trope, but sometimes it feels like it almost *has* to tie in to every other trope out there - the Chosen One has to be from a poor rural (or, recently, city-orphaned) background; has to be super powerful; has to be the only one with any real agency in their story; has to be reluctant; has to be innocent and morally commendable. Rand is a great example of this even though his characterisation still manages to feel original. Just once, I would love to see a morally grey Chosen One, or a Chosen One from a normal, happy life who has always dreamt that one day a prophecy would be about them.

I love chosen one stories. Interestingly my favorite ones are all sci fi. Dune, Star Wars and Matrix are my favorite chosen one stories. I didn’t like it as much in Harry Potter and would have preferred if it was more random. But I still liked the series a lot. The biggest detractor for me is that you have to be special to be a hero and you can’t just work your way up.

Ugh, 1000% agree. I’ve seen too many analyses that presume protagonist = chosen one, and I really don’t think that’s right

you have such a refreshing view on so many aspects of fantasy that have been talked into the ground, everyone wants to fight back on the successful tropes and say the are overdone, which may be the case, but every type of story up until this time could be considered overdone, I love the chosen one trope and I want to see it redone over and over in different ways, I think its interesting in how many ways the story can be told (as long as its in an interesting way)

Bilbo was chosen by Gandalf. It’s never quite clear how much magic is involved in Gandalf’s decisions. So in my reading, Bilbo is a chosen one in The Hobbit. Same goes for Jezal in The First Law series, who is chosen by Bayaz. That’s maybe my favorite recent take on it, though there are some nice variations/distortions of the Theme in the Malazan Book of the Fallen. As for its antecedents, I think it traces back to King Arthur and Excalibur.

I agree, some of the best stories are chosen one stories, no need to act like we're over it. I can sort of see why Lord of the Rings is cited as one of these sort of stories: when Frodo asks "why did it (the ring) come to me, why was I chosen?", Gandalf confirms that "you have been chosen." and that "Bilbo was _meant_ to find the ring, and _not_ by it's maker. In which case you also were _meant_ to have it. And that is an encouraging thought.". It's true, there's no prophecy and therefore Tolkien's not heavy handed about it, but especially when we read the Silmarillion we learn more about the heavenly powers behind the story - lightly alluded to in LotR - willing fate (doom) onto certain special people. Gandalf himself is an agent of that power (the Secret Fire), though he doesn't know everything they know, he had the insight to _insist_ Bilbo go on that quest. I don't really disagree with you though, because there's no prophecy, and most characters see it in terms of chance, and ultimately it was Frodo's own choice to take the ring to Rivendell and again choose to bare it to Mordor - but then again, any good chosen one story probably makes it seem like the One has some agency in determining their fate - Dumbledore made that clear, but then again that's probably why they were chosen, because that's the sort of person they are.

I'm not a fan of the Chosen One trope. I think my dislike is rooted in how it fundamentally conceives "specialness" as something foreordained rather than earned. That said, I thought your reasons for liking the trope totally made sense. Best explanation for the trope I've heard so far. There is definitely a comforting aspect to identifying with a lot of those characters. Please do more videos like these! This is great food for thought.

LOTR arguably also makes use of the Chosen One trope, albeit more subtly. All of the events in the story are guided by divine providence - as Gandalf said to Frodo, "Bilbo was _meant_ to find the ring, in which case you were _meant_ to find it". Frodo has basically been chosen by God to be the ring-bearer. There's no ancient prophecy involved, but he was just as 'chosen' for his task as Rand al'Thor was for his.

This agrees with something I have said a lot: "Trope X" isn't falling out of style so much as "Trope X done poorly" is falling out of style. Most people I've heard complaining about the Chosen One trope aren't unhappy with the idea of a (supposedly) inevitable destiny (the core of a Chosen One trope) so much as the auto-success that so many Chosen Ones experience. This isn't to say there aren't valid critiques of Chosen One uses, such as the people I've heard say they dislike the concept of one person being selected as "better" than the rest of the cast, but no trope is loved by everyone. It does, however, feel like many people dislike the Chosen One trope because they're tired of seeing it done poorly. As an aside, my book is in SPFBO 8, is an adult fantasy, and has a Chosen One. Here's hoping Booknest likes it enough to send it to finals! I hope you enjoy your pool of books for SPFBO. A lot of them look awesome.

When all's said and done, it doesn't matter what people are currently saying online. This isn't a matter of transient literary fads. This is deeply rooted in human psychology; it's into Jungian archetype territory. It goes back millenia and will still be a thing, long after the latest arc of the "it's cool to dislike that which is common" pendulum has swung back.

I'm with you on this one. Tropes are good if done well. Chosen One is a classic. I'm a sucker for "Lone Wolf and Cub".

I'm loving this Trope Analysis series, looking forward to the next one!

I'll show my age here... But, I loved The chronicle of Thomas Covenant when I was younger. He's very much the chosen one, and a quite intriguing anti-hero, and very resistant to the role. We also have Linden Avery lit. The Chosen, in the subsequent series.

That's a very interesting topic. The chosen one trope definitely means a character having a fate/responsibility put on them through outside supernatural forces (hence the use of prophecies). You talked about the Greek myths, and after finishing The Iliad last month, it seemed to have more to do with fatality (For example, Achilles was doomed to die in the Trojan war). Same with Oedipus (I've read Sophocles' play): he couldn't escape killing his father and marrying his mother. It wasn't about responsibility. What struck me when I read LOTR about Aragorn is that he was clearly a Christ-like figure and, unlike what we see in the movies where's he's reluctant, he embraced from the start his prophesied role as King and Healer of his people. He knew he was the One who had to be in that position, so peace and reunification could happen after the devastating war. Which is very reminiscent of the biblical Millenium in which Christ - the King - comes back for a thousand years, restores the Land of Israel and reigns on his people (both Jews and Gentiles reunited through Him). So I actually thought Aragorn embracing his role and fighting for his people in the war and then healing the wounded was beautiful and meaningful just as much as Harry Potter's struggles and hardships through it all. I think both versions of this trope worked very well for those specific stories and I really wouldn't change a thing (except I wish Neville was the real chosen one, I would have loved such a plot twist 😌).

I remember the debate about whether or not all Chosen Ones must be prophesied going around[ a lot], years ago, too. And I believe the general consensus back then tended to be that a Chosen One did not necessarily have to be a specifically-prophesied one(even though they often were), but that they did need to be chosen by a little more than just mere default of being the main/central character of the story-if I'm not mistaken. So, like, [IF they just inexplicably have some mysteriously super-special power/ability that no others in that world have ever had before and it just happens to be exactly what that world needs for the day to be saved just coincidentally showing up exactly when that world really needs it most or all hope would be lost, OR if they just happen to be the last surviving descendant or last known member of a very particular uber-special race or bloodline or sect/etcetera/ previously thought extinct/defunct/ except for this one lone character and they're now the world's only hope because of that, OR ]if there was a sword or some other ultra-special uber!artifact or such that no others could wield(not explained by like futuristic DNA-locked weaponry or something nor by simply gaining enough power or enough training or such in general to become so elevated but theoretically anyone else could have done so too even though maybe no one else actually did so) which made that character "The Only One" who could thus defeat the big-bad &/or save the world[ using that particular thing].. then..that character might still be considered a Chosen One, even without a prophecy-and even if they weren't actually even the main/central or POV character at all. (Unless I'm misremembering it.) 🤔🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ 😁 idk I also remember it kinda always being much debated if "Hidden Royalty"(or whatever it's called) is really just another spin on the "Chosen One" trope, or is actually a sometimes overlapping but totally different trope altogether. 😂 I think tropes, in general, are typically more guidelines than totally unshakeable/rigid/ laws anyhow. So...I think it's a bit counterintuitive, kinda, to try and really lock tropes down too much into these restrictive little boxes or the hard-and-fast/black-&-white/ rules and such. But maybe that's just me. ^-^

My favorite stories are the ones that include chosen one prophecies, even if the mere existence of one “spoils” the ending. Journey before destination! I recommend you read John Gwynne’s The Faithful and the Fallen series for a pretty interesting spin on the chosen one prophecy.

Like many, I have issues with the Star Wars prequels (though I do still appreciate them overall), but I think Lucas did a legitimately interesting twist on the Chosen One, setting Anakin up to fall, even though he still technically fulfilled the prophecy.

Good interesting video!! Happy reading to you!! 😊

I agree with you. I really enjoy the chosen one trope. Not sick of it at all. Ryiria Revelations is another great series with this! I can't remember if you've read or not... if not I highly recommend!! I also have never thought about Katniss as a chosen one. Reluctant hero 100%

In a similar vein as Aragorn from Lord of the Rings, King Arthur is also (in a way) a chosen one. This is especially self-evident with the Sword in the Stone, "Whom should ever pull this sword from this stone shall be named King of all England" is pretty much a Chosen One Prophecy.

I too love a good Chosen One story. You might recall that I'm writing my own. I enjoyed how it was handled in Mistborn, because there is some doubt throughout and it isn't made clear until the end of the trilogy how it was that that character was indeed chosen. And it is pretty obvious about Rand. I've only read the first two books (and the prequel) and will be reading the Dragon Reborn in April. I have a plan to read a Wheel of Time novel every four months (so April, August, and December) every year until I'm done with the series. I want to be able to read other things and not burn out by trying to read all 15 in a row, without breaks.

I think winning cures all 😊 people always complain about tropes if they’re not done well. Avatar the last Airbender has a pretty standard elemental Magic system but it’s done so well that people don’t generally mention the fact that it’s standard. I think the Chosen One works especially well in YA and middle grade because it makes the protagonist immediately relatable. An out of their depth teenager who is thrust into confusing circumstances is super relatable to most young adults. I personally enjoy the Chosen One trope.

Facts. Preach.

I’m with you on this one - and share the same favourite examples of chosen ones! I think Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow & Thorn series has some interesting uses of the Chosen One trope too - with a very vague prophecy that several people think applies to them and a couple of big twists at the end!

I totally agree that special characters that often result out of Chosen One stories are not inherently a sign of bad writing. I personally don't like those type of stories. Overall I like underdog stories a lot more. And a character being the Chosen One means that even if they started out as the underdog, they will have to become important and special.

Oh, and I think the original The Matrix movie is a good chosen one trope as well!

Sam is obviously the chosen one in LOTR, his ride or die mentality is mythical. Mistborn era 1 does the chosen one really well! Lots of chosen ones

Some of my favorite chosen one stuff is when the person who chose that “one” isn’t trustworthy.

I think you're absolutely right about there being nothing wrong with liking Chosen Ones. And about there being nothing wrong with liking or longing-for the specialness sometimes. 🙂

Harry Potter is an interesting Chosen One, because the prophesies could have applied to either him or Nevel Longbottom, and it was actually Voldemort who chose between the two, setting them on the path to put an end to the Riddle. Throughout the books, Harry has the choice to abandon the quest ... but Voldemort keeps doing things to provoke Harry, like ordering Cedric Diggory killed, ensuring that Harry will stay on the path that will lead to Voldemort's defeat. Rand al'Thor is also an interesting Chosen One because he spends the first 2 books of the epic denying that he is the chosen one, almost completely drops out of the narrative in the 3rd book when he tries to prove whether he is the Dragon Reborn or not, and horrible things happen to him in the later books because people REFUSE to understand his nature or their place in the pattern. Moiraine and Suan had a plan to find the reborn Dragon and sequester him in Tar Valon until THEY deemed he was ready, essentially setting themselves against the pattern, as if they knew better than the Creator: their plan would have doomed the world to the Dark One, and Elaida's plan would have had the same result. As bad as Elaida's plan was, and her choice of people to carry it out, Moiraine and Suan's was worse, because it would have meant years for Rand to be discovered, and either gentled or turned - the Eye of the World would have been lost, the Horn of Valere would have been lost along with the Dragon Banner, the Seanchan would have consolidated their foothold, and Rand would have likely ignored the Aiel and Sea Folk prophesies. The torture that Rand received would have been nothing in comparison to the Dragon Reborn not being free to influence and be influenced by the Pattern.

Heck yeah! The Chosen One trope gets way more crap than it deserves. Heck, tropes as a CONCEPT get more crap than they deserve-yes, certain patterns have shown up in storytelling since the paleolithic era, but that’s because they speak powerfully to humanity. You need to execute well, yes, but tropes themselves aren’t a bad thing. Also agreed that a lot of what people refer to as “Chosen One” stories are in fact “stories with a single main protagonist,” which is not the same thing. :p

Another chosen one troupe that was used in a very interesting way, is Paul Atreides from Dune. He is a "chosen" one from a prophecy but the prophecy was created by people and through their own power planted the seeds for the prophecy generations before Paul is even born. I thought it was a very interesting way to do it.

Most popular Chosen One character by far is Jesus from the Christian Bible. I’m sure nobody wants to bring it up, because they believe all of this is real instead of fantasy. But as far as stories go, it checks off a huge swath of Fantasy tropes. The chosen one: he called himself the chosen one. The secret heir: he called himself the only descendent of God. The dark lord: he named his adversary as the devil. Good vs. evil: he said that he’s good and that his adversary is evil, very plainly. Magic: he displayed magical powers many times during his life, especially by resurrecting Lazarus and himself. Damsels in distress: Mary Magdalene, among many others (male or female), were protected and rescued by him. The mentor: for 3 years, he was a mentor to many. The big quest: he foresaw his own death and prepared his followers for it. Ancient settings: 0 to 33 AD/CE would be considered ancient by most modern readers. All powerful artifacts: the method of his final torture and death is the symbol of an entire relgion built around the things he said and did. The hidden truth: that’s what he is constantly revealing to everyone around him. It was a very cool club when it started, but has since grown to include many believers. Training sequence: non-traditional, but the 3 years Jesus encourages his disciples to follow him and learn from him can be thought of as the disciples’ training sequence. Jesus doesn’t learn anything since he’s inherited his knowledge from a divine source.

The reason I don't like chosen ones is because it makes me more aware of the plot amour and plot conveniences when they happen. I understand that pretty much all stories have some measure of plot convenience around the main characters, but when its a chosen one, I'm exponentially more aware and takes a little of enjoyment out of the story for me.

Love me some Choosen One

Most of my favorite books have the chosen one and I am fine with that! lol

I adore the chosen one trope!

I feel like as in a lot of stories, whether I like a Chosen One very much depends on the character. For me, a summary or book blurb of the story gets me to try a book, but it is the characters that make me finish a book. The personality/character of a Chosen One is especially important as they tend to be the central character around which a story revolves. If the Chosen One is a dull/passive/unlikeable/stupid character then it is going to be hard for me to continue to be interested in a story. I have been reading a lot of Chinese Fantasy Web Novels recently and the worse combination for any character but especially a "Chosen One" is dumb and passive. Reading the story then becomes an exercise in frustration.

The Chosen One is something where people agree the concept is bad, but can't think of any stories that use it badly; at least not any stories that are not bad in so many other ways that this specific one does not matter.

If you have a chance, read P. C. Hodgell's Kencyrath series. I love those books, eagerly awaiting the next one. You can spoil yourself on tvtropes about how well she does tropes in her own way, or have the reviews on Goodreads back me up on how great a series it is. 😊

I also love the chosen one trope and I concur that people are fed up with it being executed poorly. I'm on my 3rd read of Mistborn and that way Sanderson handles that trope is really neat. I don't know if you anime/manga Hilary, but Naruto also tackles the trope but in a more over the tope way. Just my 2 cents. Great video as always.

Willow is one of the best "the Chosen One" stories. The baby is born that will bring the downfall of the evil queen Bavmorda...and she does, by being in a disappearing pig trick performed by a struggling farmer.

A trope is only as good as the execution of it. I like it when it's done well. Wheel of Time and Faithful and the Fallen are my favourites.

Frank Herbert's Dune took the chosen one trope and used it as a warning and red herring until the very end when the true chosen one is revealed.

I like that you constrain the concept at the start. Calling things by the right name is a prerequisite for good discussion. My favourite chosen one is Paul in Dune because of the depth and complications of his story. First off, he is a premature chosen one that wasn't supposed to be. Because of his mother's insubordination in birthing a son instead of a daughter the Kwisatz Haderach arrives a generation too early. So is he the real Kwisatz Haderach? Both the Bene Gesserit and he has to struggle with his untimely arrival. He grows up largely outside Bene Gesserit control and is further complicated by his contact with the Fremen. He doesn't turn out exactly as the sisterhood intended. But is that because he is a flawed Kwisatz Haderach or because the idea itself was flawed or its ramifications misunderstood? It makes for an interesting story. If you have anything to say about Dune, please make a video about it!

I really like emphasizing the difference between the Hero (ala Joseph Campell) and the Chosen One. If you have not read Peter V Brett's Demon Cycle (the first being The Warded Man) you should it is fantastic and has a Chosen One - although admittedly the prophecy angle is a bit muted compared to the WoT

It's interesting that all the examples you gave of great chosen one stories have some sort of a twist to it. In my opinion, it shows that the chosen one is a great trope to base some sort of twist or subversion of expectation upon, but boring if you play it straight.

I think the chosen one trope probably has it's roots in religious beliefs about the savior that shows up. I can't prove that but thats where my mind goes with the trope

Great video!!! 💜💜💖 😊

Traveler's Gate by Will Wight has a fun twist on the trope. But it's crazy to me how people will push the definition of a trope as if it's some kind of buzzword.

Nice vid. Thank you

Definitely a trope that can go either way. I enjoy I good portion of the time. Can’t say that I hate it like a lot of people say they do today

DUNE is the best chosen one story imo. It's such a great use of showing how a chosen one style person can become galvanized and harmful to it's society.

I love the Chosen One trope. I agree that Katniss isn’t a Chosen One, and that the only Chosen One in LOTR is Aragorn. Harry Potter is actually a really cool one though, because of the fact that it has nothing to do with Harry. It has everything to do with Voldemort. Great video! -T

I think Chosen Ones remain more common and popular in YA because younger people tend to be more likely to just be perfectly okay with seeing the "same"/similar/ thing repeated over and over and over again. If they liked it. They actually WANT to see more of it-they don't as much want to see something totally new or different; or, if they do, just the slightest little differences can be enough to change it up for them without losing the familiarity or the comfort of that 'it' factor/thing they love to see. (Or .. At least, that's how it was for me, when I was younger. But, to be honest, I don't think I ever entirely grew out of that and I don't think I ever completely lacked the appreciation for totally new/different things either...I think, for me, it's really just that eventually I had gained more things amongst those "same"/similar/ things I know & like than I had before. Lol) But maybe that's just me. ^-^

I wonder if people think Kvothe (from Name of the Wind) is a chosen one type of story. I know people call him a Gary Stu all the time (which I see why but also don’t agree with) he constantly feels like he is the internal force driving stuff forward. Chosen ones usually have lots of external forces telling them how they are chosen I think

Well, I have the inside scoop on a debut adult fantasy that utilizes the Chosen One (prophesy, et al) that's coming out this fall. (If the frenetic author can get--and keep--his shit together, that is.) I chose the Chosen One (heh) before I fully grasped that I was doing so (almost 20 years ago, long before I heard much of the current disdain for the trope). But I didn't choose to use it because I wanted to have a powerful protagonist. Quite the contrary. I wanted to explore how external pressures and the expectations of others affect someone who's thrust into a leadership role. Also wanted to peel back how people tend to use religious dogma as a political lever, and how prophesy continues to morph to suit current political needs. It was fun to play around with how my protagonists' feel about the issue, too (rejection of it, to realizing playing along might have advantages, to drinking the Kool-aid, to regreting it--i.e. the Kool-aid hangover). Probably needless to say, but I like the trope, too. And I really can't think of any that I dislike. Excellent topic. Glad you're taking a look. I'll have to come back and check the comments, see how the issue plays. (Eek.)

This is only tangentially related, really ... but _( since you did mention Mary Sues a little(even though I know this is a Chosen One NOT Mary Sue discussion/vid), and I have myself just been thinking a lot about Sues & the history of the term at least so far as I remember and digging a little more into its actual origins/history/ lately. )_ Supposedly, the Mary Sue trope actually arose kind of naturally too, even before it was given a name. The fact that it already existed and was significantly prevalent in fics submitted to fanzines and such way back in the 1970s or whatever was in fact exactly why the [in]famous fanfic that gave the trope its name was ever even written in the first place, specifically as a satire about this noticeable trend's existence. And there has pretty much always been debate ever since then about what exactly is or isn't actually a Mary Sue[ or a 'Mary Sue story'] or not too-as well as about whether or not a character[ or story] found guilty of being one is actually always a bad thing. (In the late 1990s, apparently someone even wrote an essay or something once about supposedly '150 years of Mary Sues' in fiction; including alleged Canon{non-fanfic}!Sues, some dating back all the way even at least into fiction of the 1800s, or so.) I personally remember, back in the earlier 2000s; sometime between like 2004 and 2012[ or so], there being a lot of active debate going around online at that time about whether or not all self-inserts were Mary Sues & whether all Mary Sues were actually self-inserts or not, and whether or not a Sue character was even possible or could actually even exist at all outside of fanfiction in canon/original material. Which I think simultaneously gave rise both to my personal school of thought that not all Sues are self-inserts / not all self-inserts are Sues AND to this persistent theory which I do not personally ascribe to at all that being O.P.(or Overpowered) is one-of the- if not *THE* -distinguishing/defining factor of a Mary Sue(neither of which everyone ever always agreed if was true or was untrue), followed later on by the currently commonplace idea that a Mary Sue is "too perfect"//"too good at everything or anything she does" &/or "too [super!]'special'" / "too much the center of attention"; as people attempted to define the concept of Mary Sues in general[ and/or in a way that didn't just condemn all OCs in fanfiction altogether] but could maybe still apply even to characters in actually original/canon fiction too, thus justifying the extreme distaste and condemnation for Sues[ in fics] as actually " 'bad' writing " and not just personal subjective preferences either for or against those particular kinds of characters/stories/ in general... BUUT if you really look at the original satirical fanfic itself[ parodying all the other fics that had a particular kind of writing/character or story], it's really not being either a self-insert or overpowered that makes a Sue a Sue, nor is it really just being too perfect or too good at whatever she does or even necessarily being the center of attention(since a Sue could in fact be EITHER the character given to helming the ship without the rank or training or experience necessary for it simply because they're the center of the captain's attention/affection/ OR the character completely ignored unnoticed in the background even whilst they easily save the day until saving the day wins everyone over to love them and despair at their tragic/self-sacrificial/ demise)-it's the way that Mary Sue unjustifiably[ bordering on nonsensically] affects the story and/or the other characters around her, for no real good reason, not sufficiently enough explained[ or justified] even just by being the main or POV character alone[ and at the expense of the other characters or story overall]. And, yes, it does border a tricky tricky line between what is actually a Mary Sue versus what is in fact just "The Only One" who can save the day because they're either a Chosen One or just the primary central character of the entire story in general(Much like the 'Chosen One' trope /can/does too); _especially_ when talking about Sues[ or potential Sues] in canon/original fiction, and not just in specifically fanfiction. Among other things. ((Which is[ I think] likely precisely why the term has been such a big and or heated topic of debate/discussion for well over 20 years now, with no signs of really ever slowing/cooling/ down, at this rate.)) Since just about anyone can have a vastly varying and totally subjective interpretation of what is or isn't "justifiable"/"unjustifiable" within a fictional work, and the original coiner of the term herself actually seems to have considered it an exclusively fanfiction specific issue..where it was really only even an issue at all because most people read fanfiction primarily for the canon characters and not for the original characters, regardless of who the POV character is or not, so it was often a problem to readers if your fanfiction was about an original character exploring a particular pre-existing fictional world rather than being so much if at all about the existing canon characters exploring new plotlines/worlds[/etc.]-but also because it often enough tended to stem specifically from /immature/inexperienced writing that just hadn't quite really learned yet how to fully balance &/or flesh everything out. I kind of fell out of active participation in fanfic and fandom spheres, in general, for a while[ in the later 2010s] though; so I didn't really keep up with the Mary Sue discussion//debate/ after that..and because of that I was actually a bit surprised when the term [re]surfaced at all specifically surrounding things like Star Wars(Rey) or the WoT TV series, because I seem to remember people[ at least the ones in the circles I used to frequent] commonly leaning more toward the idea that a character couldn't be a Mary Sue at all outside of a fanfiction specific context. (Which is why, as I remenber it, the debate was also very much wrapped-up in whether or not anyone should ever write fanfics with Original-Characters in them at all; almost entirely regardless of if they were Mary Sues or not.) But, obviously, that has changed-or, perhaps, was always so[ just outside my own personal circles] unbeknownst to me. Much of the timeline/debate/evolution of Mary Sue is actually chronicled on Fanlore's _'Mary Sue'_ page, and on their _'Canon Sue'_ page and their page for the *_'Trekkie's Tale'_* satire [fan]fic itself, with reference sources included/cited and directly linked wherever possible...including an interview with the original coiner of the term & creator of the [in]famous fanfic herself. (tvtropes also has a "Common Mary Sue Traits" page, among other Mary Sue pages.) For anyone curious and/or not already well-informed. But that's basically 50yrs of information compiled/summarized in one place, so brace yourself and buckle in for a ton of reading if you do dive down that rabbit hole. ((Definitely recommend people at least reading up on how the original coiner of the term defined Mary Sues in general herself and why she wrote the fic that coined the term though.! ^-^)) I personally remember fic writers back in those days[ during the beginning of the 2000s] being hesitant sometimes to even write Original-Characters[ especially female ones] in their fanfics at all too, and sometimes even being afraid to openly admit to even just being female writers in general, specifically because of all the _extreme_ wank that was out there largely or tangentially surrounding Mary Sues[ and original characters or AU/AltReality!fics versus the 'canon as absolute word of god' type fics] and/or female pleasure or (personal-fantasy)wish-fulfillment and such in general. A near-perfect successor to published authors printing their work under neutral or opposite-gender pen names(especially depending on their publishing genre), really. And I don't recall most people, at that point, even knowing or discussing at all where the term "Mary Sue" had actually even first been coined; it was kind of just one of many fandom terms that simply "were", in general, but just happened to be the one which everyone was arguing the absolute most about what it even was or was-not & if it was actually bad or good. Nowadays, nothing really seems to have changed-it's just gone more "mainstream" and larger-scale, extending now beyond just the mere fanfic niche/sphere alone. At least, with regards to the Mary Sue debates. (But not per se with writers being openly female, which is fortunately pretty much just completely typical now; although I think female-pleasure &/or [personal-fantasy ]wish-fulfillment in general is still a bit more of a work-in-progress sometimes.) Mary Sue is a messy-messy term(in my opinion), with a messy/loaded/ history. It started out[ I believe] supposedly with the best of intentions, simply aiming to help writers improve the depth/dimension & nuance of their characters and stories for the maximum possible /enjoyment/appreciation of readers, but [I think ]it has turned sour and basically just warped into this massive near-blind!hatedom now more than ever. I feel like it _could_ be capable of holding constructive merit(s), in some cases; but, as it is, I think it largely isn't constructive anymore at all and most times would almost be better served deleted altogether from the collective consciousness of everyone everywhere.😅😅🙃😁😁😁 Loll _(((if any of that even made any coherent sense^^ Loll)))_

Lord of the Rings: Aaragorn is definitely the chosen one; however, the true hero in the story are Samwise Gamgee. Frodo would never had made it into Mount Doom where the ring was ultimately destroyed without Sam carrying him there. I think Sam carried Frodo in a spiritual sense throughout the book (books if you want to go by how Lord of the Rings was published). He then literally carried Frodo that last bit when Frodo couldn't continue.

I wouldn’t include Dune as a series that uses the “chosen one” trope. My reason? Paul never really accomplishes what he is supposed to do and sends the universe into a tail spin. Leto II only sets the pieces for the “chosen one” to accomplish what is necessary. With that being said the “prophecy,” in this case the product of the Bene Gesserit program, only acts as a set piece to nudge along the actions of another that wasn’t anticipated to solve a problem that was never anticipated.

I don't like this as a trope but like I obviously have a lot of the same favorites, and a lot of them do it well. It just doesn't *excite* me. I am never pumped about the idea of a chosen one. Mistborn is maybe an exception in execution, and I do agree that Wheel of Time handles it in the most interesting way that I've seen, but overall it's just too tied to prophecies and I don't like prophecies that much...I think my actual favorite prophecy/chosen one trope IS Harry Potter and that's because it could have actually been Neville but Voldemort chose Harry which set all sorts of things in motion. So the "what if" nature of it has always been intriguing to me.

I love the chosen one trope!!!

I think the Chosen One is disliked for 2 reasons: 1) it leads to what I call "discontinuity," in which the CO's abilities are unjustified or over the top, so awesome that he himself doesn't understand them, and the reader doesn't either. Luke Skywalker's ability to pilot an X-wing has always been dangerously close to this line. When I was a kid I always raised this objection, but as an adult I'm willing to let it go. 2) the second objection to the CO results from a postmodernist and rather junior high level style of criticism that simply wants there to be no good guys. Obviously that's stupid, and the idea that we need to tear apart all the good things in the world to make the world a better place is completely backwards and juvenile. Best current CO story: The Black Witch Chronicles by Laurie Forest, particularly because everyone knows who the CO ought to be, but she ends up becoming a rebel and not doing what she's supposed to do as the CO.

"I thought I could be the chosen one..." "IN YOUR DREAMS!"

Facts

I think people criticise tropes all too easily. Basically, people become CONVINCED that some literary analysis tools they learned in classes are the summit of assessing literary quality. It's sad, bc literature is kinda... bad. Dry academic consideration and self importance. Meanwhile, storytelling is FUN. Its something we do as humans. I'm fairly sure Pratchett had more than one quote to this effect. (where the rising ape meets the falling angel, springs to mind) Tropes are almost built into us. Foundations upon which our entire concepts of identity and category are built. A trope is only as good or bad as the person employing it. I've made this defence MANY times over "Mary Sue" tropes. Mainly because the accusation of BEING that trope causes immediately denied almost every time. But the trope itself is neutral and the criticism is FAR more about how it is being used. (People EFFECTIVELY level the exact same criticism when labelling something "a power fantasy" and such things are WILDLY popular!) So it is with "chosen one" themes. I don't find them particularly compelling on a PERSONAL level, as I'm something of a nihilist... BUT they speak to a great deal of human experience. Who HASN'T experienced imposter syndrome? These tropes let an author explore how people react to the biggest stresses imaginable. Being in charge, being relied upon, being *responsible* Things we can ALL appreciate and underlying it the trope offers affirmation that even those *literally* chosen for a great destiny can feel the same way. I'd say that's powerful for storytelling, myself.

Great video! Often I hear that this trope is the worst but I never hear good reasons why. Maybe it’s because it’s over used but I can’t think of a property that I really hated the use of the trope. Though I don’t consider myself well versed in the fantasy genre. Maybe if I read more in the genre I would feel the same as others.

I always thought 2 Jedi and 2 Sith was bringing balance to the force. So from a certain point of view killing all but two Jedi was bringing balance to the force.

I think, because both Chosen Ones and Mary Sues have mainstream popularity/notoriety, it's kind of inevitable that there is both an oversaturation of characters of that type in general _and_ an overuse of just slapping the label of those things onto anything even slightly close to them, even when it's not really actually that-thing at all.

“Chosen one” stories aren’t what I’m looking for when I look to read Fantasy at the moment, however I do love a good “chosen one” story. ASOIF kinda ruined me when I was in my teens and picked up the first book in the early 00’s. I didn’t know fantasy stories could be written that way. Up until then I read HP, LotR and WoT. So yeah that first book blew my mind. Storm of Swords completely blew my mind and now I lean more towards the grim dark side, if the book isn’t authored by Sanderson lol. However, what I do hate now is that once GoT show became a cultural phenomenon (alongside with the Walking Dead)…the anyone can die trope has entered the scene, especially with shows, and now it’s been further bastardized into the “fakeout death” trope. Thankfully this is only a real problem in cinema, WoT season 1 I’m looking at you..but I’ll take something like Malazan over any chosen one series every time at this point in my life. One thing HP and WoT did extremely well was give their chosen ones a sense of dying. Spoilers: I thought Harry would die at the end and was kinda disappointed lol. As for Rand, I knew how his story would end, but how he got there and the ending was perfect for me. WoT also had so many great characters that weren’t “safe”. When it came to LoTR, although you say it isn’t a chosen one book, I love the series but at no point did I have a fear for any of the characters. Cheers.

Question but in video games what do you think of a character like in skyrim( if you have ever played that game) being the chosen one.

Great video! Speaking of the original chosen one, you might also consider that fiction imitates real life, and that there are nonfiction sources with prophecies and heroes selected. For instance, Noah was chosen out of his generation to save humanity, although there were no prophecies of that. Same with David, chosen by Samuel to become the king of Israel, only achieving that much later. Obviously Jesus himself could be an example, with plenty of prophecies leading up to his ministry, but the "choosing" part is a little strange there, depending on your beliefs. These all predate King Arthur, and the Jewish Scriptures predate the Greek era.

I often feel that the majority of 'chosen ones' prophecies really struggle to justify their inclusion particularly as a lot of them would function just as well if it wasn't included. As they inherently both make the story more predictable and take a lot of agency away from the characters (It feels like the hero must destroy the dark lord or what ever because the plot tells them to and not because their character wants to do it). I know that authors try to add motivation for the main character to fulfil their prophecy after they have already added a prophecy into the story. However this mostly feels like their putting the cart before the horse. I think a chosen one prophecy really needs to include a lot more than just a twist on their own trope to justify this. It really needs to add an aspect to the narrative in its own right. The othering that always bothers me about this trope is that an accurate prophecy of any kind automatically means that the story is taking place in a deterministic universe. I know I'm a nerd who obsesses over small details but this barely ever addressed in any stories but it implies Harry and Nevil could have both ran off to Portugal and spent their days sunning them selves and still beaten Voldemort. This feels like its the case for the vast majority of prophecies focused plots. The only 2 times were I have seen this is addressed at all by the author is WOT and dune. While I don't love either of these francizes I excepted that the 'Chosen one' was necessary for the stories the author was trying to tell. A lot of stories like HP would have been a lot better without it. Particularly as in the HP example Harry felt special well before the prophecy was introduced, well over half way through the series. My favourite example of a prophecy is the Lego Movie of all things because its wasn't true. It was made up by a character to influence other characters which apart from being a good twist it allowed for almost all the opportunities of a chosen one story with none of the baggage which comes along with it.

[Shayne Topp has enters the chat]

The issues I have with Chosen Ones is that sometimes I don't want to know how the book/series will end 20 pages in after being introduced to the Chosen One and the Great Evil. They also tend to start reluctant and whiney. "But I have to go I into Taschi and pick up some power converters!"

Yeah, for me. The chosen one needs to be prophesized, or a slighted heir. Or the only one who can fulfil a particular role. I have to agree, Katniss isn't a chosen one. She wasn't destined to overthrow Snow, or District 1. People rallied behind her, but it could've been any champion. I like the difference between Harry Potter (with a chosen one protagonist), and Fantastic Beasts, with Newt absolutely not being a chosen one. I just wish there was a more coherent story behind it.

I disagree with you with regards Bilbo and Frodo. While you are right about there not being specific prophecies about them there are some pretty solid implications that Eru Ilúvatar took a hand in manipulating their involvement and roles in destroying the ring, so they are quite literally chosen by (their in world) god to help save the world. I agree with mostly everything else though, there's nothing wrong with a chosen one trope done well. But then the same can be said for absolutely any trope, it's really only when they are done badly the problems with tropes arise.

my fav chosen one isn't a book, is Buffy the vampire slayer

You were the Chosen One...!!!

Exactly. Though Joe Abercrombie is an exception.

Have you tried the "Percy Jackson" books?

I find nothing to disagree with here! I am 100% on board with your definition of a Chosen One. In order for a character to be a "Chosen One" their mere existence must be presaged in some way. Katie's is not a Chosen One (capital letters), she is a chosen one (lowercase letters), chosen AFTER her entry to the plot. Same with Bilbo. The Ring didn't choose him BEFORE entering Goblin Town. The Ring chooses Bilbo when it is found, AFTER Bilbo runs into the "plot of the Ring". Some variations on the Chosen One trope that have some potential (even if I haven't seen it do e well yet) includes a story with a Chosen One but a different character is the primary POV character. Another is "What if the Chosen One fails" and dies in the process? What then?! Excellent essay.

You can like what you like. Tropes don’t need defending - not nearly as much as bad writing does.

The chosen one isn't an inherently bad trope, I just don't think it adds anything. Like most any story that has it could just be told without it, and it would make the story more intriguing with the eventual outcome less known.

I always hated the Chosen One trope. I really dislike it when there is one person (most of time it’s a dude) who somehow more important than everyone else. But tbh almost all of my favorite stories have a chosen one. So, I guess I‘m a hypocrite. :D

The concept of a Chosen One is a genuine archetype. Having said that, it can certainly be done poorly.

I feel the chosen one trope comes from religion Moses, Jesus etc

Anakin shouldn't have been a Chosen One. There was no reason for it in the narrative, as just having him be strong in the Force would have been more than enough. It doesn't really serve anything, and nothing at all gets mentioned of it after the PT. Luke wasn't a Chosen One. He was the one Obi-Wan thought could stop Vader, but that wasn't a prophecy, it was just what he believed to be true. In Harry Potter, a ton is made of Harry's chosen status. He has a connection with Voldemort, and we even see that they can start to read one another through their shared link. Nothing that anyone liked about the PT in Star Wars was dependent on Anakin being Jedi Jesus. It was more a distraction from a better story that could have been shown.

How about the bible? That seems like The first instance of a chosen one I can think of in literature.