Why "Chosen Ones" Bore and Frustrate Me 

This video is more of an overview and not comprehensive. There’s some stuff I could spend an entire other video on that I didn’t really get into. Such as how the “chosen one” virtually always happens to be somebody who fits the standard protagonist template of conventionally attractive, fit/thin, heterosexual, cisgender, non-disabled, and more often than not white. Or how someone being effectively the designated savior who all others must default to very easily plays into fascistic narratives of “chosen people” and the disregarding of the importance of ordinary people. So yeah, there’s more to unpack if people respond well enough.

"...Everyone wants to believe they're "chosen". But if we all waited around for a prophecy to make us special, we'd die waiting. And that's why you need to choose yourself."-Eda (The Owl House S1EP2)

The Hunger Games (I suppose mostly its sequels) might be my favorite 'chosen one' story, because Katniss was chosen _by another human_ to be the face of the revolution. They get to do the same "Why me? I don't want it" trope and the stakes that come from being the chosen one, but without the dumb and unsatisfying "the universe said so" answer.

The more I watch the original Matrix film, the more I believe Neo wasn’t “The One”. But stepping up to the plate anyway is what made him a hero.

The only chosen one story that worked for me was Buffy the Vampire Slayer maybe because of the stakes (no pun intended) that came with that role that followed her throughout the show until the end

The best defense I’ve seen for Chosen Ones is the Trope Talk video from OSP. It’s a great discussion of what is appealing about the trope, what kinds of stories it can tell, and what elements it needs in order to tell a compelling story. I don’t hate The Timeless Child, but I think it absolutely fails as a Chosen One story because it doesn’t amount to anything. There’s no destiny or duty to fulfill, no adversary to overcome, and no greater mythology revealed. The Timeless Child is just backstory for the Time Lords that doesn’t change what we know about The Doctor or what she knows about herself. It’s one thing to begin a story with this kind of plot device, but it’s another thing to introduce it as a retcon.

One of my biggest pet peeves about the Star Wars prequels is that we never actually learn what the Chosen One prophecy actually says beyond “he will bring balance to the force”.

What you said about a chosen one not needing character development kind of reminded me of Clara Oswald. Because we were all too busy trying to solve the mystery, then getting to know War, then farewelling Eleven, then getting to know Twelve, she’d been there for eleven episodes before we paid attention to her personality.

My least favorite uses of the chosen one story are when they made characters like The Doctor in The Timeless Child and Spider-Man in The Amazing Spider-Man 2 explaining that the spider that bit him had his father’s DNA making him the only one who could be the friendly neighborhood wall crawler pissed me off, as much as the excessive Sinister Six setup.

I think Brandon Sanderson puts some interesting spins on the 'Chosen One/Prophecy' trope in his 'Mistborn' series. As the series progresses, you find out the alleged 'Dark lord' who initially gets defeated in the first book wasn't so 'dark' after all, at one stage the 'Chosen One' actually turns out to be the person that screws everything up by doing what they were 'prophesised' to do, and that a side character ends up accidentally in a sort of 'Chosen One' role simply because the *actual* 'Chosen One' at the time makes an unexpected decision that *wasn't* covered by the 'Prophecy.'

There is something to be said about who gets to be the “Chosen One” and what the appeal is. I’ve seen the arguments that it’s a trope often reserved for white, straight characters and how it’s not fair to decry it when other types of characters have been denied the honor. It’s often a power fantasy for the young to imagine themselves as the protagonist and feel like the most special person in the world. A feeling few of us might feel again in this lifetime. For the marginalized and underprivileged, it’s a rare sensation.

One thing I like about the Star Wars prequels is the subversion of the "chosen one." Because it turns out that the "chosen one" was the "bad guy." And Anakin did bring balance to the Force. Before him, thousands of Jedi ran the galaxy. After Vader, there was balance: 2 Jedi (Yoda and Obi) and 2 Sith (Palpie and Annie). See that coming, Yoda did not.

I think Lord of the Rings did the chosen one trope well. Frodo was chosen not because he was the most competent, but because he was the least dangerous option. In fact, he tried to pass on the ring to more competent people who all refused because they knew the danger of their failure. Tolkien also described Golum's story who was like a hobbit before he got the ring, which showed Frodo's personal cost if he failed, but it wouldn't be the end for everyone else. Destroying the ring wasn't predestined, but it was a condition needed for victory. Failure was always an option in the story.

I suspect the Angelina Jolie first Maleficent was the most honest take on “prophesy.” Good guys, bad guys and chosen ones are written into the legend years after the events have played out.

The Elder Scrolls franchise has an interestigng variant on the Chosen One trope, in Mantling and a few other related concepts. Basically, 'hero' is a metaphysical 'slot' that anyone could fall into- or possibly be pushed out of- given the right circumstances. In essence, the 'Chosen One' is whoever is the closest match to what fate demands *at that particular moment*. It is fluid. If the chosen one fails to do their job, or someone else seems like they could do the job better, the position will move. The player character in Morrowind was not born the Nerevarine, and thus destined to fulfill the prophecies. Rather, by fulfilling the prophecies, you are, knowingly or not, BECOMING the Nerevarine, which in turn pushes you further along the prophecy in a feedback loop. Free will and fate both exist in uneasy stalemate in TES; and paradoxically, the more powerful you are, the more important fate considers you, and the less freedom you actually have. At first you wield power, but eventually, power wields you. You have free will, but you can also trap yourself in a fate you do not want. In the Elder Scrolls cosmology, the Chosen Ones are not born that way; they are people who, through sheer force of will, hold fate itself by the throat and FORCE IT to chose them.

Being the chosen one is the ultimate narcisistic fantasy, and for me also there's a bit of narcisism is icky ickiness in being asked to relate to that fantasy. I'm surprised you didn't mention Buffy as she probably was an inspiration for many chosen one story lines, but at least she had complicated feelings about her chosen oneness. I'm a big fan of your Jumpgate podcast and really looking forwards to seeing how you feel about that prophesy story playing out.

A chosen one storyline won't stop me watching anything but they've definitely been causing me to roll my eyes at them for a long while now. You correctly point out that far too many writers treat them all in essentially the same way, you can see the plot points long before they arrive. Unfortunately, that's how that industry works - great new idea followed by bandwagon jumping, followed by subversion of that idea, followed by bandwagon jumping. Rinse and repeat.

I'd be curious to read a chosen one story that does not actually follow the chosen one, but a different character in their social circle, and how not being chosen affects them. Maybe that subversion has been done before, but I've never seen it.

A take on the Chosen One that I actually enjoyed was in the video game 'The Bard's Tale', and otherwise mediocre game with some funny songs. You are designated as The Chosen One and during your quest you come across the dead or dying previous Chosen Ones. The people who designated you as such just kept throwing the title at whoever to get them to fulfill their quest, in the hopes that someone lucks out and actually manages it. In pretty much every level you come across either the corpse of a predecessor or that same predecessor getting killed (and they just tend to be hapless nobodies who believed the hype). Obbviously, these are your first sign that the ones who sent you on your quest are incompetent good at best, and outright evil at worst. But yeah, prophecies/chosen ones tend to lead to boring storytelling. Exceptions are there but they're few and far between.

It occurs to me that one could interpret "Everything Everywhere All at Once" as a chosen one story. :) I also enjoy some of the stories that has someone think they're a chosen one but turn out to be wrong.

MODERRRRN ARRRRT!! Excuse me, I'm celtic. Thank you for your vids and your time

I wish I could like a video more than once. You articulate so clearly, exactly all of the reasons why I don't like chosen ones. Thank you, honestly. It's almost expected now, that once there's a chosen one, then there's a severe lack of agency to the point where it's like actual choices don't matter, and no one else matters except for this one character being ultra special, and it's all because of fate/destiny/the prophecy says so, and no one ever questions any of it. I really, really don't like that. I do like chosen one deconstruction stories, but a lot of the time it seems like they don't go far enough somehow, and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's just me. I'd love for a prophecy to be mistranslated, and/or for people to argue over the exact wording, things like that. If a prophecy turned out to be someone's grocery list, or some unexpectedly mundane thing, that would be really fun.

I think my feelings on chosen ones vary wildly - like, as with many tropes, its often done poorly as a way to make the main character extra special, and that's annoying. Then there's ones that people seem to like that my response is 'ok but why a chosen one tho?' (Star Wars being a prime example of that - when Obi Wan was shouting 'you were the chosen one' I was rolling my little middle school eyes because even back then I found that choice to be incredibly trite, I didn't even find any enjoyment in the fact that they were trying to subvert it because I found the fact that there was a 'chosen one' at all to be pointless). But there's other times when I find it comforting and nice and not distracting, like Aladdin being the 'diamond in the rough' chosen one, or Moana being 'chosen' by the ocean. And then I paused to think about what the ones I like have in common, and I found that almost always when I like a chosen one, its because they got to do some choosing themselves.

Story idea: a young girl likes writing fantasy stories. She writes an unfinished chosen one story in her notebook just before loosing it. No big loss. She was going to scrap that story anyway. Years later she’s transported to a magical world where that notebook landed. Every one in that world took the notebook as a prophesy and now she’s stuck with not knowing how to and if she should explain the truth “ perhaps SHE is the chosen one.” “Couldn’t be. She doesn’t look anything like how the chosen one was described.” “Yeah well, I was inspired by old movies where the heroes always looked a certain way, and I just assumed that’s how you’re supposed to write, and of course it would be my old cringy work that would catch on!”

I think the thing I dislike most about chosen one stories is the way it dovetails into great man theory and the negative effects that has on society. Chosen-ness presupposes correctness in the actions of the chosen simply by virtue of an innate quality. It need not be earned (necessarily) and need not be justified, and thus can not be questioned. Insert your real world example of choice.

The Chosen One: Assigned Hero at birth

A lot of super hero origins hit me the same way. People might be "chosen" by something random, like who a spider happened to bite, but it's still a character that's arbitrarily picked to be special so now the story will follow them. I don't necessarily dislike the trope, but now that I think about it, it does seem to come with the lead character being the least interesting

The Doctor was the Time Lord who “ran away” and “interfered.” They were called to exploration first (an admirable if self-focused motivation) and then to true heroism. It’s all so unique and compelling. You can riff on this endlessly. The Master is a good evil opposite to that (though I would do something different than play them as either Space Hitler or the Joker). I also don’t think regeneration is the most interesting thing about the Doctor. It just explains how we can have different actors playing the character but beyond that, I don’t need to know more. I know this might fall into “chosen one” category but I would’ve been more interested if the revelation was that the Doctor in a past unknown incarnation had created time travel. It speaks to who the Doctor is (the explorer) and is more active than passive. The Timeless Child is a passive revelation about the Doctor, which I resent.

I like one thing Linkara said in one of his videos about the Star Wars prequels, which could be applied as a nifty idea for a "chosen one" prophecy: what if the prophecy is what turns a hero into the big bad (or dragon to the big bad, in the case of Star Wars)? Specifically, the chosen one is brought up being told that they are special, chosen destined for greatness, and so it goes to their head. Nothing they do could be wrong, because they're the hero, divinely chosen. No criticism of them can possibly hold any water because of that. This could lead them to wanting to eliminate any dissent, and also to the fact that they can be manipulated by those who are willing to give them unending praise.

She-Ra did a nice job deconstructing this trope (and the attendant notions of destiny and fate), I thought. The narrative initially sets Adora up as a bog-standard Chosen One (“bringing balance to the world” and all). (BIG OL SPOILERS BELOW) But as the story progresses, it begins to interrogate the source of the prophecy, and ultimately we learn that the entities responsible for the prophecy are just as bad as the ostensible villains they’re directing the Chosen One against. And the show explicitly frames this as a critique of the Chosen One narrative and the way it erodes the protagonist’s agency in service to a supposed greater purpose (“You do not get to choose. You were chosen.”). The narrative thrust of the story then becomes rejecting the core notion of higher powers directing the little people who they view as mere chess pieces. (And also gay love saving the universe.) Not coincidentally, this is when the show introduces its true Big Bad, who is expressly emblematic of religious zealotry and domination.

In The Lord of the Rings there are prophesies about Gandalf, Aragorn, and other big shots, but not about the Hobbits, who turn out to be vital to the survival of the more important characters-I always loved that about the story.

It occurs to me that superhero films are ‘chosen one films’, and follow along the same formula to what you describe.

I totally agree, but listening to this makes me really want a chosen one story where the whole thing is just people arguing about prophesy- who said it, when, why, what makes it true, how do we know, etc. Really hashing it all out.

Dune is an interesting inversion of the chosen one narrative. Frank Herbert addresses many of these questions directly. Should a prophecy be believed? What is its purpose and who does it benefit?

For a story with a creative take on prophesies and the Chosen One trope, I warmly recommend Shannon Hale's YA novel Princess Academy. I have the Full Cast Audio unabridged version on 8 CDs and it is Chef's Kiss.

The Sahjahn(sp?)/Connor/Holtz arc on Angel is good example of drawing into question the authority and legitimacy of a prophecy.

The Terminator had a decent Chosen one story, I think. John was chosen because of a closed loop time paradox. He was only chosen AFTER the Terminator was sent back in time to kill him.

That's very interesting topic! I'm actually writting a story of my OC that also uses some troopes from "Chosen One": This OC is Marcus Dumon AKA the Spectruman, a 15 year old boy who is choosen by the dying alien warrior Percyon to recive the cosmic power of Zeon so he can become a protector of the universe and continue the legacy of Percyon, as well the legacy of his fallen friends, the Order of the Star Knights (basically the story is mix of space sci-fy concepts of Green Lantern with the teenager drama of Spider Man). In the first chapter of my first arc I dedicate it to establish Marcus before meeting Percyon, showing his personal life, his relationships with his friends and family and his personality, showing the qualities that make him worthy of reciving such power, like his bravery and genuine desire to help others (which he gained from his love for super heroes as well from his parents, a firefighter and doctor). Then, after reciving this powers, Marcus, at first, is arrogant, not taking his role as super hero seriously, with the idea that he was "choosen one" giving him a false sense of security, that he is "flawless" because he was choosen (showing he sees super hero in very steriotypical way, that they are perfect and everthing goes right for them). It's only after a battle against his first villain, Cold Bones, that results in one of his friends getting injured by the collaterall damage that Marcus finally sees his mistakes, causing to question if he was truly the choosen one. It's thanks to his mother and friends that Marcus is able to overcome his self-doubts and use his power to defeat Cold Bones, saving the lifes of his friends. The arc ends with Marcus interacting with spirit of Percyon, who tells him that the power of Zeon doesn't define their fates, that even the best knights made mistakes, some were even tempted and corrupt (hint for future villain), however what prove them as heroes and knights in the end wasn't the power of zeon, but rather their own choices, their will to keep doing the right thing, even in the darkest hours.

I like Buffy as a chosen one for one thing because it's clear the council treats slayers as disposable and easily replaced, the role is what's important not so much the person and Buffies specialness comes from her own skills and abilities in the role and not the role itself

My favorite deconstruction is when the villain fabricated the prophecy/chosen one to hinder resistance by having its opponents divided and/or waiting for the chosen one instead of fighting.

I definitely feel the same even though I loved a lot of these stories growing up. I think the one that I still love despite the obviousness of it is Willow because the chosen one is a baby it feels more like a metaphor for the younger generation and our focus is on the other characters.

18:35 The first arc of Wings of Fire does this decently, with the dragonet prophecy revealed to be a fake designed to give the nightwings more power over the other tribes, and the main characters in said prophecy being essentially pawns in that whole scheme.

What bothers me most about Chosen Ones is that they're given importance to the world they live in. They don't earn their importance; whether they're literal or functional chosen ones, they are given unearned importance by someone else. Its the major reason why I dislike the Timeless Child Twist (the doctor isn't just important because of their actions and decisions anymore, they are special - even by Timelord-standards - cause they were born special and are now the sole reason for the Timelords rise); and its a major reason why I dislike a number of "recent" (relatively speaking) entries in various narrative-heavy videogame-series; in MEA got the Pathfinder who became a functional chosen one by their daddy putting nepotism over the chain of command; or in DA:I we got the Inquisitor who was important because they got special magical powers by accident which made them literally the only one capable of saving the world. None of them earned their importance the narrative and other characters heap on them, they are given importance through no action of their own. Best example for a good story about a (literal) chosen one for me is still the Star Wars-Prequels (despite their problems): What happens when you tell a guy from 10-years-old that they're a superspecial chosen one with a great destiny? They became headstrong and increasingly angry at every perceived failure or whenever they're denied something they supposedly deserve and end up becoming a mass-murderer. Bonus points for having a character point out (once its already too late) that prophecies can easily be misinterpreted.

Related to a point you raised: Prophecy is often an extremely arbitrary way to make elements in a story significant. It kinda functions the same way Magic does in many works. For example, in Into The Woods (not a criticism, btw, I love that show) the undoing of the spell on the Baker and his Wife is what ties everyone together because the components needed to break the curse could be literally anything, so they become the items from these other fairy tales.

I think Buffy the Vampire Slayer was the only chosen one story I've ever really loved, though I'm so disgusted with Joss Whedon now that I don't love it as much as I once did. Overall, I do think of chosen one stories as being a lazy sort of storytelling. What I actually disliked most about the two Amazing Spider-Man movies is that they went and turned Peter friggin' Parker into a chosen one. For that matter, Ang Lee's Hulk pissed me off for the same reason back in the day.

18:30 Doesn't that happen in the second episode of Owl house? speaking of which, are you watching the new Owl house special tonight?

The show Amphibia had a "Chosen one" prophecy that was done well. We didn't learn about it until close to the finale. It also gave room for the girls to fail. Victory also came at the cost of one of the girls "dying". They lost the power they used to come to Amphibia, and never got the see their new friends again once they left for home.

The one I liked how it unraveled was in Angel with the Shanshu Prophecy in that the Vampire with a Soul will play a pivotal role in the upcoming apocalypse and become human. I like it because the specifics of how the prophecy plays out is seeing how Angel veers the line of which side of it he will take and how the collective big bad keeps messing with him in that regards. Another spanner in the works was the addition of Spike, another Vampire with a Soul and him grappling with what that means for him and his fight up I until that point. But what I love most about it is that at the end, he signs it away in a move that allows him to keep fighting the good fight on his own terms.

In the case of Doctor Who, as you say, it's not even clear why this is necessary at this point. I much prefer to think the Doctor is important because they happen to have rebelled and made the decisions they've made, rather than because of their essential importance. Personally this idea of essential importance has... monarchist? Implications, in that it's about importance by birth, even sometimes literally by bloodline, rather than because of what you've done. I actually enjoy when Doctor Who does the opposite - puncturing their importance, like by introducing Time Lords/Ladies that are more skilled than the Doctor (Romana and River both do this at times). You get the sense the Doctor only seems impressive because they spend so much time with humans, who are likely to be impressed by Time Lord science and knowledge generally. Chibnall's decision destroys that sense of arbitrariness that can be fun in the show.

And in the Aladdin example, he screws it up (well, Abu does, but Aladdin let him come in) and only gets out of the cave because of Genie. He's chosen in the sense that he's the only one who can currently enter the cave (which he never would have found out about had Jafar not obsessed about the lamp), but he's not destined to take the lamp. I never thought of Aladdin being a "chosen one", but if he is, it's a good take on the trope.

"In RuneScape you are great not because you are the Chosen One, but because you chose to be the one." - Josh Strife Hayes

I feel like both Chosen One/Prophecies belong in a certain kind of cathegory where it can work if you play around with them, but largely doesnt work when ”played straight” so to speak.

Upvoting to fulfill the ancient prophecy where Council of Geeks becomes the true queen of RU-vid.

Yeah I got the feeling you were trying to avoid mentioning Harry Potter even before you mentioned you're trying to avoid mentioning it.

I am so glad Jessie Gender told us about your channel! You are so good at this!

I don't expect anyone to have heard of it, but the Engelsfors trilogy does an absolutely amazing reconstruction of the standard prophecy narrative that I think addresses several of your criticisms here (which I agree with). It's just as much a mystery/thriller as a fantasy adventure. It's about a prophecy, but it's really vague and nobody can seem to agree on what it means or whether it's even true, not even the Chosen Ones themselves (yes, there is more than one). This is just as big a source of conflict as the actual evil that everyone is trying (or not trying) to defeat, if not more so. And the story is not predictable at all; both the characters and the reader are kept guessing as to if, how, and by whom the prophecy will or won't be fulfilled. It has several really well done plot twists and it goes in directions you absolutely don't expect. The characters are all three-dimensional and flawed and best of all, they have agency in how they interpret and respond to the prophecy. Their decisions have real weight and consequences, even - especially - at the climax. If you'd like to read a Chosen One story done right, I cannot recommend this series enough. (And that's not even mentioning its wonderful characters, really good queer representation, and examination of various social issues.)

I'm watching this after your Power of the Doctor reaction and I find it hilarious that everyone had the assumption that Chibnall was going to "wrap up" the Timeless Child story... when in reality he just left a massive story unfinished while walking away, patting himself on the back, and going "Mission accomplished!!!"

I think some of the points you make highlight a frustration I had with the fan discourse about Game of Thrones: at some point in reading the books particularly (but also watching the show), I came to the realization that I didn't trust any of the prophecies and that the important part was how people responded to or used them instead. The biggest point of frustration being the people talking about "oh, Jon Snow must be this 'prince that was promised' who will fulfill this big Lord of Light prophecy and defeat the Night King" - in the books, it felt much more vague and murky whether there really was a prophecy of this prince or whether it was just a tool to manipulate people into doing certain things. Also, a focus on the importance of the prophecy shifted a story I felt was focused on the people of this world and the horrible things they'll do (even if there may be some big threat looming) to a big Chosen One narrative about how the supernatural threat is defeated (oh and people are bad, I guess), which led to disappointment for viewers when that threat was defeated halfway through the final season and the last episodes focuses on what I always thought was the most important part: the people. That might just be me.

I think it's the stories about the notable figures, those who do reshape history, are the ones that suffer the most from the trappings chosen one narrative, because so much of their motivation was - historically speaking - the struggle not to fall into obscurity and irrelevance. A possibility which the narrative precludes.

Kung Fu Panda 2 is another example of a villain believing a prophecy to where they end up creating “the chosen one” & are the cause of their undoing.

Where would we end up if we had the choice? Where would we end up if we didn't have the choice? What would we choose given the choice? Do we have that choice to choose? Or indeed can we be choosy about the choice chosen? What are the chooses? ... Choices.

You know this, but I am a huge fan of the Chosen One™. Avatar: The Last Airbender and especially The Legend of Korra explore this chosen-ness. It probably has something to do with my own personal history, but I really enjoy the catharsis of seeing someone with responsibility and expectations thrust upon them outside of their control, then learning to cope as they either rise to the occasion, fall in their endeavors, or reject the expectations entirely. That's where the entertainment is for me. Sometimes, we find ourselves in situations that cause people to expect action or accomplishments on our part, and we have to respond. As a former Gifted Child™, I identify with this trope in a way I'm not sure others outside that experience would. This is one of my biggest sources of appreciation for the trope.

Carrot Ironfoundersson, in the _Discworld_ setting. He is Destined to restore the kingdom of Ankh and become the new king. But he doesn't, because he doesn't want to. (Not an exception to the rule that this only happens in comic works.)

Miraculous Ladybug does this subversion of the chosen one as anybody can done the Miraculous and use their powers so long as they have the guts to do what’s right. Marinette becomes Ladybug while Adrien is Chat Noir not because the jewels or Kwami deemed them destined but worthy based on character primarily. What helps is that the Guardian of the Miracle Box allowed them to operate on their own without orders from him. It’s never because they were told to but because they can. Marinette later is chosen as the next Guardian in Season 3 but only after episodes of proving her worthiness.

Writing this before finishing the vid because I agree so much, so sorry if this is redundant! I was so pissed when watching The Rise of Skywalker because I was thrilled that Rey was a 'nobody'. I much prefer the Ratatouille 'Anyone Can Cook' narrative.

The only Chosen One stories I like are Sinclair in Babylon 5 and Sisko in Deep Space Nine. Sinclair's Chosen One status was a totally shocking plot twist at the time, and the character is written as having doubts about who he is, where he belongs and being Chosen gives him inner peace. Sisko resists being Chosen for years, finally fully embraces it, but in doing so, suffers a great loss that shows even a Chosen One with godlike powers can't have everything he wants.

Thank you for the video, Vera (The Chosen One by the Council of Geeks)! It could be argued that most of stories where the main protagonist is the hero, they are already the chosen one. My main gripe with prophecies is how they try to put the stories "on the rails". I do agree that most stories require some kind of structure, but that is too much. And there is also the problem of authors treating prophecies as "Chekhov's guns": the final conflict between protagonist and antagonist will always happen, and despite some suffering, the protagonist will always reach a happy ending. A good subversion of that could be the protagonist completing their hero's journey by resisting the pressure and having agency in order to go against the prophecy, and the antagonist is foiled by the protagonist choosing to walk away from the conflict. And the reason why only comedies are willing to question prophecies seems to be because they are the only ones brave enough to make meta-commentaries/jokes at the expense of their own plots.

One of my favourite stories is the Lord of the Rings and in it Frodo isn't the Chosen one that's for sure, he makes mistakes and even succumbs to the Ring in the end, he was a just normal Hobbit who had this great responsibility thrust upon him.

I somewhere read an Essay about how chosen one stories make the reader/watcher "lazy" because we got told we just have to wait for a hero to save us and how this way of thinking can be dangerous. While i don't mind the use of prophecy or chosen ones per se there are very few chosen one stories i realy enjoy.

Since I watch Quill and Sword I already have an idea of what points you'll make, but it will still be interesting to see them in a more cohesive format!

The prophecy elements were (one of) my biggest problems with Evangelion. The knowledge of there being a set amount of angels and that their attacks were prophesied to happen made them so much less terrifying, as well as making the motivations of the major powers so much less interesting

I actually like what dimension 20’s misfits and magic series did with the chosen one story. They basically had a character destined to be the dark lord but he fully rejected this

When there is a Prophesy I always question where it came from and what their motives were. I do agree that crow-barring a Chosen-one story into Doctor Who didn't work (for me). If you're not careful it can take away character agency.

I'm late to the party on this video but thank you for voicing some of the thoughts we share and saying them better than I could have.

I disagree that this Child Of Time Doctor Who story is a Chosen One narrative. There's no prophesy, the Doctor has no grand purpose here, no task only she can fulfill. She was just some resource the proto-Timelords found and exploited completely, stealing her abilities and then brainwashing her into an obedient Timelord (with mixed success) rather than give her credit. The Doctor is no more a Chosen One now than they were back in McCoy's Cartmel plan era, or when the show was first revived and they were The Last Of The Timelords, The Oncoming Storm and whatnot. If anything, Chibnall took a right turn and moved almost completely away from The Doctor as The Lonely God Who Makes Civilisations Tremble In Fear At His Name. It's one of the things I really liked about his version. My favourite Chosen One story remains She-Ra And the Princesses Of Power, which at the same time plays it relatively straight and subverts it to hell and back. "You do not choose, you were chosen".

I remember that Disney's Hercules was a Chosen One a la Prophecy. I also remember that the people giving said Prophecy were the Fates, As in: The literal Goddesses of Destiny. Criticisms of that movie aside, When you asked: "By who's Authority should a Prophecy be believed?", I think that the Triple Goddess of Time and Predestination is a very specific justification that could be used more often. I mean, who's going to say No to the Physical God when they make a decree?

I completely agree with you This is honestly why I love She-Ra though - she has the Chosen One mantle thrust upon her and acts against what people claim is her destiny

Well said! I agree. When it's good and done well, though, I can definitely appreciate the chosen one trope. I've been wanting to write a subversion of this trope, but I keep getting stuck with the middle. Someday, I'll crack this code!

One of the few "chosen one" stories I liked was the first Mistborn trilogy, and that was in part because deducing the identity of the Chosen One was a big part of the story. People were often WRONG, they misunderstood the prophecy entirely, and in the end the Chosen One was a minor part of the narrative, tying up the resolution neatly.

This is one of the reasons why Critical Role’s Legend of Vox Machina is so pleasing: all the characters are the main characters of their own story and have their moment in the spotlight. It single-handedly makes all the characters more fleshed out. This is partially due to the nature of a fairly run live-d&d campaign and partially (especially when it comes to side characters) a storytelling skill by Matt Mercer where all the characters within the story are respected as three dimensional individuals.

For those looking for a cool chosen one story I'd recommend the 1st Wings of Fire series. I think it's the only Wings of Fire series that has chosen ones and a prophecy? Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't read much of the other series unfortunately. Basically, there is a prophecy and a group of chosen ones (not just 1) but immediately the prophecy gets thrown off and the ones following the prophecy had to substitute someone in. The group has basically been raised on being chosen and well... let's just say they have a lot of issues because of that and the fact that they were basically imprisoned for their whole life to hide from the villains. Since it's a book series with perspectives from (roughly) every member of the group it has a lot of time to unpack all that stuff. I think it's also pretty cool that the prophecy from the start is proven to be fallible to some degree and there's debate in universe over if it's going to pan out or not. Also since there are people actively trying to either prevent or make the prophecy come true but in a way that doesn't come across as a "self-fulfilling prophecy". Anyways if I talk more about it I might spoil something major so yeah

These were good points I hadn't considered. My question for writers of chosen one ™ stories would be, does it make the story less interesting? Because it can, if you use it as a substitute for character motivation. Think the first Star Wars trilogy vs the prequels. Luke functions as a chosen one, but wasn't chosen by anyone, unless you count Obi-Wan. Luke's motivations hold up on their own. On the other hand, making Anakin a literal chosen one just raises questions it doesn't answer. The story would have been the same without it, at least as far as I can tell. One twist I would like to see, though, is having the whole prophecy turn out to be a plot to manipulate people who believe in it. Imagine if that was the case in the Series We Aren't Talking About, for example. This is a long comment already, so I'll sign off. Always enjoy your trope discussions!

I think one of the best subversions of this trope that I've seen in the past decade would have to be _Blade Runner 2049._ The movie really had me fooled about K until that twist toward the end. And then, after it was all over, it didn't feel like a cheap twist out of nowhere, because it amplified the absolute tragedy of his character arc so much.

Very interesting discussion. I largely agree with the frustrations, but I still enjoy the format when it's well done. It's one of those things that I feel fits my analogy of a chainsaw: when used properly, it's extremely effective. When used poorly, the outcome is very bad. On grisly notes, I wonder if you might enjoy a series called the Malazan Book of the Fallen. It plays around a lot with perspectives. It has "chosen" characters, but in almost every circumstance, Steven Erikson makes the choice to tell the story from a different perspective. The Empress's personal agent has a quest to track the activities of mysterious and powerful beings? You get to see the perspective of the random lieutenant she picked up as an aide because he was slightly more competent than average. Got an army fighting to put down a rebellion? You get most of your perspective from a guy who just made sergeant. Someone gets resurrected by a dark god intent on doing terrible things? That guy's brother, and also a slave their parents own. All that said, it is very much a series that is not for everyone. Take 1 part typical fantasy, add 2 parts philosophy and throw in about 1 part horror of what people do to each other and another half part supernatural horror. That's about what you're getting. It's definitely a series to look up content warnings on, and I'm usually one to avoid those because spoilers. The author does his best to avoid making things gratuitous, too....if you can read the entire series front to back without having a moment where you just have to put the book down and process the thing it just depicted, that's kinda scary. It's a harrowing experience, made all the more so by the fact that the author is so clearly aware of what he's writing about. It's a series that moved me to tears on many occasions and, honestly, made me a better, more compassionate person.

I have come to hate the good guy's arch nemesis trope like the Doctor vs. the Master or Space Commander Travis from Blake's 7. When you know the good guy always wins after the first time the bad guy appears he(or she) just becomes a comic book incompetent villain with the "I will get you next time, ha, ha, har" trope. Especially with Travis(Blake's 7) with his little speeches at the end of every episode he appears in. From Seek-Locate-Destroy: "Run Blake run. Run as far and as fast as you can I will find you. You can't hide from me. I am your death, Blake." From Duel: "You see, he made one mistake. He should have killed me."

I like to mess with the trope when I write. I have a character who is chosen in a multiple pov series. He isn't actually chosen to deal the final blow. He is chosen to be the holder of the key and the one to unlock the door The key just happens to be a sentient being. The key choose him, but he doesn't see himself as special until a good bit later when another tells him he's important. Then the character rebukes the vision she shares. Its very ala I'm not that guy.

Apologies for turning the focus on the Harry Potter books, but my greatest disappointment was that they failed to do anything particularly interesting with the prophesy angle. I think it was a given that Harry would end up killing Voldemort, but how much more moving it could have been had he died of his own injuries afterwards. The triumphalism of the actual end (to say nothing of the clunky epilogue) felt really empty.

As a writer, I find the whole prophecy and chosen one thing to be very limiting. If I start out with the characters' paths already laid out by a prophecy, then I am rooted to that path and can't really deviate if I have a sudden idea about something else. I also like to explore motivations and prophecy is a pretty terrible motivation.

I'm glad that you touched upon the question of *_WHY_*_ do people in the narrative so easily believe these prophesies?_ That's the thing about the "timeless child" business that bothered me most. That if the two main characters, the protagonist and antagonist both believe something without much evidence, that that somehow carries over as being true for the narrative generally and the viewers. Especially when the prophecy is only known by the Master, who has been established as a liar and trickster countless times before! That's like if somebody you don't like or trust shows you a PowerPoint presentation that "proves" that you are some millennia-old civilization-founding figure. How credulous would one need to be? That came up in online discussions of how, moving forward, the series might write around this reveal of the character. My position was that writing around it is trivial, because it's simply random BS stated by the villain. And later confirmed by Tecteun who conveniently promptly dies. Maybe it's one of my weird autistic disconnects, but I was surprised that many said that it's a difficult narrative thread to work around _because the narrative itself believes it to be true,_ which I don't understand.

I want a chosen one story where they think it's wrong, slowly realise it isn't and then we don't even know who the chosen one is

Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica. Baltar was told he has a destiny, but it turns out the only thing he was really useful for in the long run was protecting the human - Cylon hybrid child at one moment of time. Everything else was up to him.

I remember LOST doing something like you describe with the authority who made the prophecy crumbling it up and throwing it out.

I was extremely dissatisfied by the ending of The Republic of Thieves, the third book in Scott Lynch's Gentlemen Bastards fantasy series. The main character is revealed to be the reincarnation of a wizard with a prophecy surrounding him. It spoiled me on the whole series because it felt like the author was just giving up on having his characters act with agency and free will, and just shifting gears from a series about con men in a fantasy world, to just a chosen one story like so many other fantasy series.

You’re so right, Vera. I am so sick of chosen ones, and prophecies. Seems like we can’t get away from “ he’s the king” “why?” “Because a wizard said it 1000 years…”

I like how George R.R. Martin uses his “Prince Who Was Promised” prophecy. Some people have been pushed into the role, others believe they were the Prince, then decided it had to be the next generation, etc… The vague nature of prophecy causes people to take action, even when it’s shown they really shouldn’t. If you believe you’re the Savior of the World (whatever that means), what will you destroy in order to save the rest? It reveals a lot about the believers.

Dr.Who has a unique take on fate or prophecy which is the “fixed point in time” trope. The difference is usually is that the desire is usually to change said fixed point in time or stop the prophecy. Rose’s father’s death episode was a subversion of the chosen one story. I like it personally.

I think that Shulk in Xenoblade Chronicles is an example of this being done well, although that could be an exception and not the rule. I can give the spoilery version, and the non-spoilery version. In summary, it's because he's got one of the strongest narrative roles, and strongest 'toolset' but is definitely not the strongest in terms of survivability or raw power.

Just found this video and want to add that the grisha trilogy by Leigh Bardugo is a good study on being 'chosen' because of social circumstances. The people of Ravka hope for a sun summoner to defeat the Fold and believe in it so hard because every year their families are torn apart by the draft and their children are killed by volcra. They want that to end. So when Alina comes along, people put her on a pedestal and start seeing her as 'chosen' or a god whilst she, a human who happens to have the power to summon sunlight, strains against that role. It's fascinating.

"Chosen one" is a story that I don't really like to see "played straight" but I do like when it's subverted and taken apart in certain ways. Stories that deconstruct the idea that the chosen one is even a hero, or the idea that they're even aware of what they're doing, or just build off the idea that there are chosen ones but they're not the people who shape the course of history or solve the big problems (Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams were both great at these)... those tend to work better for me, especially that last one. In terms of Doctor Who, the Timeless Children feels almost more like a "living macguffin" story than a chosen one to me. 'cause the events the Doctor was "chosen" for are all... over and done with by the time the story starts, and The Doctor had no agency in them; even though they did revolve around her, her role in them was that of an object, not a person. If I was to pick a "Chosen One" story from the show I'd go with The Caves of Androzani, where The Doctor brings down a corrupt regime just by accidentally nudging it into a different direction while he's trying to save his companion. Even though there's no "prophecy" or outright declaration of direction, the story makes it pretty clear that he's probably changing that world for the better, that no other character in the story could have done it even though many of them wanted to, and it does lay out what's going to happen pretty clearly from the start if you're paying attention. Kinda ticks all the boxes. The fun is in how this is treated as a side-plot while the main focus is on how all this going on complicates the events that are more important to the main characters.

I really disliked what the timeless child meant with the doctor as a character for this exact reason but my gosh you've just cemented that frustration even more. it doesn't make me hate the TC storyline but I'll be glad once/if attention is taken away from it...