Trope Talk: Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass 

Never forget the time spider man lost his voice from a cold and all the villains surrendered cuz they were afraid of how silent he was

I love iroh, his “moron” side is constantly doing wacky stuff, that on later thought turns out to be calculated and helpful. He’s just wonderful

Every D&D campaign I've ever played in has been marked by the players' inability to perform simple tasks. The party can't so much as buy sandwiches without seducing a goat, killing the mayor, and opening a portal to hell in the town square. Then initiative is rolled and suddenly they're a flawless death squad that could kill God.

It's amazing how Sokka is both the funny idiot and the genius strategist at the same time. A lot of his comedy actually comes from him being the only braincell in the group and constantly getting frustrated with the carelessness of the others, which is really clever. He's a great fighter but his strength lies in his brains, which is surprising for a "moronic" character (I mean, he's had his share of genuinely stupid stuff too, but still). It's a twist on the badass, with his main power being the smart guy, rather than being the awesome warrior.

I like how in most trope talks, Avatar is featured in at least one variant of the trope.

"People like funny and people like awesome. And I'm people." Can relate.

Red: on the opposite end of the spectrum is the man child variant. Me, immediately: Deadpool

I think my personal favorite CMHB is the one and only Captain Jack Sparrow. He pretends to be a bumbling idiot of a pirate when just under the surface he's a simultaneously brilliant and insane master escape artist that can figure out how he can get out of a situation with little more than a glance at a few things that he can use. The idiot act just helps him pull off his escapes from inescapable situations by making everyone else who doesn't know of him already underestimate his affinity for using wacky bullshit to get himself out of trouble.

This trope is why the Ultra Instinct Shaggy meme works

I would like to think I’m a crouching moron, hidden badass but in reality I’m more of a crouching moron, hidden even more of a moron

You talked about how it's annoying when CMHBs are constantly underestimated, and I agree with you, but I love when it's the inverse. Where the CMHB is rumored to be extremely powerful, then when met in person they just seem like a goofball with a bad rumor attached to them. Until later in the story when that rumor turns out to be true.

I love the Flash's scene cuz you know that he isn't scared of dying, he's terrified because he knows that dying under these circumstances is the catalyst for turning his friends/idols into the worst versions of themselves. OOF

A man child is literally Joseph jostar the guy who manages to simultaneously be the smartest guy in the room and the stupidest

there's a great Jackie Chan outtake where he pops around the corner with a gun and says "CHEESE!" the crew starts giggling and he just "what?" and someone behind the camera says "it's freeze. Not cheese." and jackie laughs "Oh right! Freeze!"

"I may be an idiot, but I'm not stupid" is my favorite version. Highly booksmart and awesome but have little to know common sense. Like Sokka in ATLA, Spencer in iCarly, or Shawn in Psych.

Luthor’s plan Step 1. Become President Step 2. Kill Flash Step 3. Get killed by Superman Step 4....profit?

She said badass *57 times* , in case you were wondering.

This is like Jar Jar Binks acting clumsy to hide the fact that he’s a Sith Lord

Kung Fu Panda actually does a pretty decent job of making this archetype the main character, it's not perfect by any stretch, but it's a fine example of CMHB protagonist.

"Weapons grade slapstick" is the best term I've ever heard to describe Jackie Chan

“People like this and I am people” -Red 2019

The Flash arc (and really the CHMB) reminds me of an old saying. There are 3 things all wise men fear a storm at sea, a night with no moon and the anger of a gentle man.

-Noo you can just be badass and funny at the same time -Jackie Chan and Bollywood action scenes: observe

"They're dead. People are dead." - Vash the Stampede Unquestionably one of the most amazing moments of a CMHB I've ever seen. This whole show Vash has been preventing people from being hurt, not just dying, bit if possible, hurt. Now people are dead, and Vash's simple statement of that fact is terrifying.

I think a really good example of this is Sokka from Avatar. He is primarily comic relief, but then he occasionally has genuinely awesome moments. The best example of this is probably the episode where Sokka trains to be a sword master.

“My name is Michael J. Caboose, and I! Hate! Taxes!” “It’s Texas, you idiot!” “That too!” RvB season 10

The original clip that inspired “Ultra Instinct Shaggy” is a clip of him being awesome and funny at the same time

I think making comic relief characters as snipers or hackers is to keep them out of the direct line of fire so that they can focus more of their brain on being comedic, instead of being forced to worry about getting out of the way of dying.

Roy Mustang: Crouching badass, hidden moron (also don't get him wet)

I think the opposite is much funnier. "Oh no it's the amazing, powerful, puppy OF DOOM." "Bork" "RUN FOR YOUR LIVES"

Jackie Chan is definitely not underrated or anything but I still feel like he doesn't get enough credit. He laid a blueprint and filmmakers still refuse to take his advice.

"Demons run when a good man goes to war" And simply captain jack sparrow are also good cases of cmhbs

The entirety of Assassination Classroom is filled with these character archetypes and its super entertaining

"People like funnies and people like awesome, and I'm people" Preach

Fullmetal Alchemist does a lot with this trope. You've got Ed himself as the "crouching short kid, hidden badass," Izumi Curtis is the "crouching housewife, hidden badass," Ling's got the market on "crouching foreign hobo, hidden badass," and Pride is the embodiment of "crouching first grader, hidden nightmare fuel." And then you have inversions like Armstrong, who acts as a "crouching badass, hidden sweetheart."

When I started writing my character, Aydyn, I wanted them to be essentially a cross between James Bond and Jackie Chan. They were always more than a little silly, so when they reached the part where they were the best spy to have ever lived (their own words), they purposefully started to take their fights less seriously, just to see how good they had gotten. Why pick up a regular gun, when you can pick up a nailgun instead, which is a lot less useful, but is also funnier when used (in)correctly.

Dear Red: Can we get a mug/t-shirt that's says "I'm Magic, Ishtar loves me, and even the Queen of Hell thinks I'm hot."?

Zenitsu from Demon Slayer: Braindamaged anime girl with amnesia who's only useful once he faints from pure fear.

Bugs Bunny - definitely underestimated by anyone who tangled with him. "You realize, this means war".

Zenitsu, the guy who's first instinct when facing the demons he's supposed to fight is running away, but once he takes a power nap, turns into the living embodiment of the phrase, "Lightning never strikes twice."

"weapons grade slapstick" when talking about Jackie Chan. Best quote of the whole video.

I think Saitama from One Punch Man is my favorite version of this trope. He's badass, COMPLETELY badass. But his badassitude is also the joke. He's so incomprehensibly strong that people assume he's just cheating. He lives in a world where a hero who can throw around cars like frisbees is only considered B-rank. His friend, who consistently loses VERY messily to the point it's almost a joke in and of itself, is an S rank. Saitama is stronger than all of these guys, without even really trying. He's also hilarious. Cuz he just wants to do hero stuff because it's the right thing to do. He only wants money for food and rent, and only goes along with the whole ranking system because of the money it provides that would allow him to not worry about it. He only really starts caring about his rank at all when he finds out C-ranks can get kicked out due to inactivity. And he's only C-rank because, as is typical for shonen heroes, he bombed the written portion. He's also more than willing to call villains out on their bullshit. That "OK..." meme with his face is his response to a villain's monologue carrying on a bit too long. He's a conflict killer, and the audience KNOWS he's a conflict killer. But he does it in such absurd ways that it's funny. Like punching a guy who shrugged off several S-rank heroes and straight up killed or dismembered several lower ranked heroes so hard that the sky clears. Then, when the crowds start thinking "Hey, why do we need heroes if they can't stand up to threats like this?!" he admits he "cheated," and engaged in so his fellow heroes' sacrifices wouldn't be glossed over just because he's so freakishly strong. And all this from the guy who got constantly assaulted by an annoying mosquito that he chased into a huge battle scene.

I just realized The Lego Movie technically shared two CMHBs: - Vitruvius as The Faker, normally playing up the senile old blind mentor but still able to fight (in the prologue and towards the end: "well June bug, I'd use the term EXPERIENCED"). - UniKitty as The Goku, courtesy aware of her aggressive side that can pummel through robots in a single leap, but generally reserved for her fun and cheery personality (breaks out when Emmet is trapped during the invasion of Bricksburg: "must stay positive....AW FORGET IT"). However, we can also mark it as Superpowered Evil Side as she does gradually remain angry kitty in this film and its sequel. But it does gradually return over time. There's just a good portion of time between both films in which she adapts the aggressive personality over the norm

So that's why that line from Heroaca was so great "All Might had arrived...and he was not smiling" Like that shit hit like a truck

Also, people should remember the difference between a character who is dumb and a character who is goofy.

Sokka from Avatar: the last airebender is also a really good example of this (though going more towards the funny in non dangerous situations) He is without a doubt the most strategic and clever person on the team yet he is flawed and have a tendency of messing up and even make light of some pretty serious sitations. Not because he is trying to be silly..but because he is silly and don't always think everything through despite being amazing at coming up with plans. Several times he is actually the reason their plan gets either slightly messed up or end in a complete shitshow. The best example of this is when he is attempting to get off the boiling rock in season 3. The reason the first plan goes completly up in smoke is because he isn't careful enough when he tells the other's about his plan. It is even his fault that Zuko gets caught as well..Zuko...because he takes too long to talk to Suki in the cell. He also didn't have any idea about how to catch the warden after they had already begun their second attempt at getting away. The invasion of the fire kingdom is also an example but that is different. He isn't being silly or taking things likely at that specific time but instead gets provoked into using up previous time (It is such an amazing scene actually! Him first telling everyone that they need to focus on the main mision but then gets provoked by Azula's sharp tongue. It is such a welldone scene! We very rarely see Sokka get that emotional and the fact he is even fully aware of her plan yet still ends up falling into it is bloody amazing! It both shows Azula's amazing manipulation skills and quick thinking but also shows some of Sokka's best sides in the fact he is able to see through her plan before she has to start provoking him.)

Late, but, I also find it interesting how the CMHB trope can work on villains. A villain that toys with the heroes, that loudly makes jokes, that makes bond villain errors simply because of how much fun he’s having… and then something goes wrong, and he proceeds to start busting out the most powerful shit in his arsenal. Example is Xykon from Order of the Stick.

Ah yes, that one episode of black butler where we learn the background of the cook, maid, and gardener.

*notices the missing illustration in the Venn diagram* : oh I wonder what that's gonna be *5 minutes later* : it's Jackie Chan

When she mentioned" Food, Fighting, and Friendship," I immediately thought " Welp, that's the entire plot of fairy tail .

Stone-Cold badass characters blend really well with CMHBs, especially if the setting better fits the CMHB, because the guy who is established as a serious and professional person is now forced to turn a little more fun and light-hearted, often thinking they look stupid the whole time (and sometimes being right).

"And guess what, people like funny and people like awesome, and I'm people" -Red 2019

Iroh is he perfect example. In the first couple episodes, he comes off as lazy, but in the third one, he starts acting wisely. He continues acting like a goof with a love for tea for the rest of the series, with plenty of wisdom, and some serious moments.

I feel like Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy is a reverse CMHB. In normal situations he's overly serious, but in combat he's actually kinda useless.

"walking talking force of nature that thinks marriage is a thing you eat" honestly sounds like how a lot of people play barbarians in D&D

You need to a trope talk about the very common trope of “magical mentor is hiding secrets from the protagonist” god this happens so much

I thought the title said “Crouching Mormon” and I was really confused

"This walking, talking force of nature thinks marriage is something you eat" describes one of my characters so well it HURTS.

Idk why but the line about the zero-confidance-goofball initially dismissing their basassery and then getting super excited seems exceptionally wholesome to me. I think it's a fusion of the feeling of watching a shy person come out of their shell, and seeing somebody being SUPER happy which in my case i tend to get caught up in the happy person's pace. I just like happy.

There is another version: the saitama. He is so badass he just doesn’t need to care and as such he is a frequent source of comedy.

I think One Punch Man is another good example of comedy and badassery happening simultaneously. Simply due to the fact he is so overpowered he doesn't need to get serious at all to do incredibly badass stuff

Princess Bride also pulls this off well. In fact, the whole movie is basically built on the theme of "being awesome but in a really funny way" - right up until lines like "I want my father back" sucker-punch you at the climax.

Dante from the DMC series is a great example of the manchild approach. When Dante shuts up or stops being funny, you really feel it. And knowing his backstory makes his humour and goofyness just hit completely different.

Red, you should do a trope talk on gentle giants! They usually fit into the man-child type of category, but they still deserve their own slot!!!!

Ah yes I’ll never forget that glorious moment where the flash showed Luther the terror of a man who can process and react in attoseconds.

Someone: Idiot Savant Me, an intellectual: *Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass*

Zenitsu from Demon Slayer is a great example of the second type. Initially he’s such a coward that he can only use his cool powers when he’s asleep, but later on he learns how to face his fears and becomes stronger because of it.

You forgot the all powerful Crouching Cinnamon Roll, Hidden Monster.

So what I learned from this: >Be Jackie Chan >??? >Profit.

My wife is pretty much the social embodiment of this. Shes full on ADHD, clumsy, silly, sometimes childish and extremely excitable. She also completely annihilates the competition at her sales-centric job, can make nearly anyone feel like they want whatever she wants them to and can manipulate a conversation in such a way that you not only think that doing what she wants you to do is the best idea but was actually your idea in the first place. She can tell within seconds of seeing a person the perfect way to address them and relate to them on a natural and personal level, getting them to open up and reveal things to her after just minutes that they would not tell their friends of years. It's a good thing she's Chaotic Good and enjoys actually helping people; I'd hate to think what a selfish person could do with her talents.

My favorite example of what you said right before you started about Jackie Chan and that’s the time spiderman lost his voice and all the villains where so scared they surrendered because they knew if spiderman was silent he was serious. They also knew he could hospitalize them when he was not serious so it was very threatening.

Percy Jackson kind of fits into the 0 confidence goofball.

Most surprising CMHB I've ever seen was Jar Jar Binks, who in one of the comics, deflected blasterfire with a lightsaber as if he was trained his whole life for that moment, and then proceeds to accidentally drop said lightsaber once the fight is over.

I've got friends that more accurately represent this trope than the trope does. they're great friends.

I loved seeing images of Vash in this. Trigun is my favorite anime of all time to the point that it is the only one I re-watch in it's entirety. I even created a Shadowrun character who wore a trench coat filled with derringers inspired by derringer Meryl. I hardly ever see Trigun mentioned or referenced and I appreciate it being acknowledged.

I made a d&d character using this trope. So imagine a goblin with spongebob's personality that's also a necromancer that wants friends. The entire party thought my character was just a joke until like the 12th session when I got serious and started raising an army of darkness. But I continued in my spongebob voice and personality.

I CAN NOT believe you haven't used King Bumi even once as an example!

Yoda, when Luke Skywalker meets him for the first time, is also a Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass. His reveal has weight and meaning that stays with you and actually impacts the story as it goes along.

One of my favorite examples is Equestria Girls Pinkie Pie. She has the power to cause sugar to explode. This has lead to my favorite scene in any fanfic where she fended off an entire government task force by lobbing them with exploding pastries. Moral of the story is, *don't face off against Pinkie in Sugar Cube Corner*.

My favorite version of this trope is a loveable idiot who just wants to live a carefree life indulging in the things that make them happy. Their badassery only appears when someone tries to take one of those things away from them. For example, CMHB is chasing butterflies. A threat appears trying to get them to engage in an epic battle. CMHB takes one whole second to obliterate this threat because THIS IS BUTTERFLY TIME, DAMMIT, WAIT YOUR TURN!

I just realized. This is Sans Undertale.

I’d really be interested in seeing a Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass as an antagonist

Something pointed out by Comics Explained during their X Men Vs Avengers videos, specifically about Spiderman, that can feed into the CMHB Trope is that cracking jokes or not taking a fight seriously can actually mess with opponents. Spiderman doesn't just wisecrack during fights because it's who he is, he does it in part because acting so blasé and casual about fights while the people he's fighting take it so seriously can mess with them on a psychological level.

One Punch Man has many examples of scenes that are both funny and awesome

I just realised that Neville Longbottom and Luna Lovegood can be grouped into CMHB!

I submit Percy Jackson as the gold standard for a CMHB. Generally, he's mostly just funny and goofy but about 4-5 times per book he gets a total badass moment that reminds the reader why he's so important. Hell, sometimes both at once like when he convinced a bunch of dophin pirates to flee by bluffing that Bacchus was going to attack them. Or when he defeated the Sow by getting a pair of lions and Thomas Jefferson to kill it for him.

I really like Rimiru from “That Time I Was Reincarnated as a Slime” as an example of a moronic badass. They fall under the “Acting stupid to gain an advantage over those who underestimate them” archetype. They often use the fact that they are “just a weak slime” to accomplish this on top of acting dumb as though they don’t understand the gravity of what’s happening most of the time, only breaking character when a villain pushes them too far. They let their opponent know this by literally telling them that they’re getting serious now. This is usually where Rimiru puts down their sword, and start using their actual powers, regrowing limbs, transforming into other creatures, using powerful magic, creating body doubles, kirbying the villain’s allies, etc.

I'll always love Kung Fu Panda for nailing a final fight that felt funny, tense and awesome.

Food fighting and friendship Leo Valdez: wHo SuMmOnD mE

The crouching moron hidden badass trop saved Thor's character. Thank you Ragnorok.

I love how your first two 'Fakers' are exactly the first two characters who jumped to my mind with the trope. (Vash and Kenshin)

Gojou and Todou from JJK are perfect examples of this, specifically the manchild variant. Both of them provide comic relief and badass moments, often at the same time without it ever feeling obtuse.

I'd like to hear you talk about the "Villainous Crush" trope. You know, where a villain has (one-sided) feelings for a hero.

Now I want a five man band of all CMHB of the first five subtypes.

My favorite example of the CMHB trope is Soren from The Dragon Prince, He is fun and goofy and very much a moron sometimes, but he really gets serious, especially in season 3, when it's super important. Definitely one of my faves. I'm surprised I haven't seen many other people mention him

I watched this right after reading The Heroes of Olympus and this is totally Leo

This is why Archer is one of my favorite characters of all time, he’s a complete man-child, but he is *actually* one of the best spies in the world. He compromises missions because he’s an idiot, but he has incredible skills and has a ridiculous amount of encyclopedic knowledge. It’s a perfect dichotomy.

Watching this 10 minutes after i rewatched Kung fu panda ... food, fighting and friendship fits pretty well

One of my favorite JLU moments is when Superman is an inch away from going psycho on Cadmus, and Flash isn't amused in the slightest. In not so many words, he basically calls Supes out for letting his emotions interfere with his reason, and he's cognizant enough to realize that ripping Cadmus out root and stem wouldn't help the League's reputation or even necessarily solve the problem that Cadmus presents in the first place.

You know, I think "oh no, plot is happening" might be my single favourite line from any OSP video 😊