Ohhhh forgot to mention how much of a kick I got out of the bully-magnet having those eyes in every single panel, when I saw Daddy-O crying in the graduation cel, I fully expected a big reveal that Bully Magnet was now going to be the confident one leading the party, excited to get back to the real world!
Ok, but technically, the whole "No one gets recess until we know who did it" thing already breaks the Geneva Conventions, since the teachers punish all the students for something only one of them did.
I was listening, not watching, the entire video and as soon as I read this comment I knew ***exactly*** what those eyes were gonna look like in Red's style. I love them ^_^
@@EspeonMistress00 Yeah, later in life then. But a wizars nerd in a wizard school would already kick ass while in school. Any attempt at bullying would result in an immediate one-sided curb stomp from the nerd.
I personally don’t. Super schools are an awesome trope. Honestly as a person in their junior year knowing the crap I’m gonna have to deal with when I graduate. Nah. Adult life sucks. Kids have it easy.
@@digimonlover1632 It varries by person. I am in a significantly better state now that I am an adult. Just being able to choose where I am and the people I interact with is such a lifesaver. Like, extra responsibilities and all but the extra freedoms are more than worth it for me. Also, you've never been an adult. Take it from an elder gen Z I promise it's not nearly as bad as it's cracked up to be.
@@solsystem1342 It depends a lot on your baseline. Some people don't have a super hard time in school, and then find themselves neck deep in problems in adult life. Some have problems from start to finish, and some just have it "meh" all the way through. But I agree that the freedom from adulthood overrides even the best moments of school life. It's just that the good that comes from it has a lot less frequent highs compared to a generally good school experience. Take it from an older Millennial that didn't have a homogenous experience neither in school nor in adult life. ;-) (And now I'm waiting for a GenXer to come and impart their wisdom in the next comment. Let's see if we can get some boomer advice too, that should be fun.)
@@adeleaslan8182Google translate actually isn't super reliable because it can't always recognize nuances in how the language is being used. My French teacher had to point out how Google translate tends to misinterpret some stuff because its focusing on what each individual word means rather than the sentence as a whole, and my Latin proffesor could tell immediately just by reading a test if someone looked up the answers, I know because he's called out half a class on one test
Huge shoutout to Assassination Classroom for being a "super school" anime that was actually focused on the normal class aspects and learning more than its super elements, as the only "super" thing about it was honestly the teacher (and some of the extra classes they had to take because of said teacher).
Ditto. Almost 30 years since I got my Masters and as for high school... I won't say dinosaurs still roamed the earth when I was in high school but the tracks were still fresh ;) And I still occasionally have a "I've registered for a class I forgot about and now it's final exam time" dream.
Yep, one of the things I did for mine was making sure that outside of one, who his point is that he seems entirely average, all of the teachers have their own thing. The healing teacher is mean to the point where she makes students cry and the principal tells her that she has to tone it down. But, in her mind, because she is training doctors, they need that stress to know what it will be like when someone is genuinely dying in front of them. The magical creatures and war magic teacher is hundreds of years old and looks like a mummy, and his age means he is stuck in his ways and his ideas of normal are a bit different, making him seem quite harsh to others. The one who gets the second most time is a vampire, and the main character can relate to her and the struggles of being treated poorly because of something that they didn't choose and that just because they are stronger than humans doesn't mean they should develop an ego over it. Rather she says that it is the duty of the strong to care for the weak.
Though largely not a Super school story one of JJK's biggest strengths are the teachers Gege was able to make many of them very likable characters especially Gojo.
I think I only had two "back in school dreams" my whole life, but last month I dreamed that I was walking past the campus of the college I studied in and said "look at all those kids studying for tests and running to classes. I love this place but I'm glad I'll never set foot on its classrooms ever again"
Fun fact: In the owl house, the protagonist was initially never meant to enroll at the magic school and was just put there because disney wanted a school setting. From the beginning of S2 onwards, it becomes obvious the showrunner is trying to include the school as little as possible
I never would have known that, because Dana Terrace and company made it connect so well to the overall theme of the show. And let's face it, having Luz learning and interacting exclusively with Eda, King, and Hooty without any kids her age would have gotten boring.
@@dreamcream3738 I'm confused... Mandated by who, exactly? I kinda doubt Disney Executives are activelly trying to convince children to go to school... It seems more likely they would simply believe that a school setting would make the show more popular. (I mean, a lot more stories with a simmilar setting started popping up after the success of Harry Potter)
What I always liked about 'My Hero Academia's' U.A. High School, is while it's primarily known to cultivate professional superheroes, it has other departments for General Education (for students who are aiming for non-superhero careers), Support (for students that want to learn to develop gadgets and equipment for heroes to use out on the field), and Management (for students who are aiming for working in the business side of heroism, from hero agencies to venture capitalism). Same deal with the various settings in Magic the Gathering, where you have institutions of education such as Strixhaven, where the actual topics are fairly mundane academic subjects but are done through magic (such as studying history by using White Elemental Magic to raise spirits from the dead.) A lot of fantastical schools in fiction don't really have fairly mundane academic avenues for students to focus on if they don't want to aspire to level skyscrapers or to conjurer eldritch abominations from worlds unknown, so it's rather novel that some do as part of that settings world building.
Strixhaven is actually an excellent example of how the school under siege trope can be done to its most ridiculous. Canonically in timeline, the mage-hunter shenanigans and phyrexian shenanigans are like, one to three years apart at most. Those poor, poor freshmen.
@@gilgamesh7084 Come back after your first year to a mythically ancient enemy created by incomprehensibly powerful beings have you questioning whether ignorance really *IS* bliss.
There's also another version, that crosses over with a genre that's rarely seen outside of Japanese media - school dramas where the MC is a teacher, rather than a student. It's been a very popular genre in Japan, where teaching is a very well regarded profession, and the teacher who really cares about their students and will go to absurd lengths for their health and wellbeing is a huge archetype. And they often deal with the sort of problem you Interestingly, it typically focuses primarily on the student's problems. Because that's the whole point of the genre: a teacher is somebody who guides and assists students. Typically, even when the teacher has their own problems to deal with, they're more as things that make it harder to help the students. They're also often more ensemble casts between the teacher and students, so you get the best of all possible words in terms of narrative - all the students dealing with problems /and/ the teacher is an active participant who facilitates, rather than a plot hijacker the writer needs to work around. And there's a whole pile of super-school versions.
@@allyli1718 This particular teacher thing started with an old live drama series called 3-nen B-gumi Kinpachi Sensei. It was stupidly popular, and ran for over 30 years. It's become the baseline model for the "very good teacher" character type, and you'll see some element of it in nearly all great teacher characters in anima, manga and drama since, either played straight or subverted. Off the top of my head, fairly well known examples would be GTO (great teacher onizuka), Gokusen, Assasination Classroom and Negima. Pani Poni Dash and Sayonara Zetsubo Sensei are at least somewhere in the ballpark. Denpa Kyoushi, i believe.1-nen A-gumi no Monster very much counts, and as the title suggests is directly inspired by Kinpachi-sensei, but is a subversion in some key areas. There's a whole pile of similar dramas, and a few of the above titles have both anime and drama adaptions. Honestly, if the MC is a school teacher, it's all but guaranteed it'll fall somewhere in this ballpark.
@@allyli1718uhhh it feels like JP really likes teachers as mcs but I can’t really remember any off the top of my head that really feel is like what OP is talking about. There’s Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, Great Teacher Onizuka and Assassination Classroom. The last two actually have teaching in it.
@@jeffbenton6183 I think I recall GTO being on crunchyroll, and a few of the others in the above list might be in the crunchyroll/funimation back catalogue. I know Sayonaya Zetsubo Sensei is on Nozomi Entertainment's youtube channel (entirely legal - they have a smaller catalogue, but put everything on youtube for free)
Turns out they're pruning candidates from all over the world and some disappear never to be seen again as their abilities are analysed, dissected and given to others considered more suitable wielders of those abilities and powers....
Hate the crying protagonist just makes me want the villain to backhand the weak hero so hard it kills them so they have a resurrection which makes them a better character and learn that crying was their downfall. Or the chat your enemy to death.
@@sensan257 I said nothing about a crying protagonist I said the chibi crying wimp was oddly funny and cute There's nothing there about them in a story just the chibi on screen
One thing that I thought of first is how good the Percy Jackson books utilize the "camp" setting. The camp is a safe space pretty much until book four but it is expected within the world of the story that the kids won't stay there for long because of greek mythology's concept of fate. All the kids in this series are children of gods and it is just understood and explained that danger is seeking them at all times. So even though the camp is safe, inevitably something will happen that'll force them to venture out into a great advantage and become heroes. The only thing the camp provides is a place to stay for a little while and some combat training. So the stakes are always high- because at any moment and probably at the most dramatic moment the heroes might be forced out.
i didn’t even think about how pjo does the super school trope but with a camp instead until like. right now? and it was my favorite series as a child lol. but you’re so right + i think it’s a very good way to play on the base idea of this trope!! and yeah i love how it’s just kinda a thing that most demigods don’t live to be older and by love i mean it makes me sad 🥹 but it makes so much sense and it makes botl hit so hard since aside from the wildly dangerous camp games, chb had always been a safe haven-or at least the closest thing to one the campers ever got
There's also Camp Jupiter, the Brooklyn House, and probably to an extent, Hotel Valhalla, which all play functionally the same role with varying degrees of regimen.
I remember one of the things-just-got-real moments in this series is when Percy is realizing the camp was made to be temporary. Even the demigods' safe haven did not expect any of them to survive for long.
I take some issue with this since apparently only a handful of them face consistent mortal danger and it's only during the camp years, so the only real risk the year-rounders can face is on quests, which apparently Chiron can just ban with the only consequences being that ONE of them gets restless, and she just ends up going home anyways. There are those who dont make it to camp, but they die as a result of being outside the story, so no one present really experiences the dread. To be clear, I'm talking about the status quo that exists with the Lightning Thief, and most of what I said is really just the complete lack of detail outside of the main cast and the time frame of the series, which can't be counted since it is entirely unique to the plot(s)--literal wars and a couple of explicitly stated destiny-based outliers.
I never realized that the reason so many stories are set in schools is because of Write From What You Know. it's probably not the entire reason, but definitely a big part of it
this made me think of capitalism realism and how that lesson lead to modern writing, where it's easier to imagine end of the world than end of capitalism.
It's also a crutch used by a lot of lazy writers to pass off their shallow stories. Like, what if Batman, but every character is just some self absorbed idiot obsessing over pointless teenage drama because their target demographic is equally as vapid.
@@darwinxavier3516 isn't it a bit mean? teenage drama doesn't seem pointless to teenagers, who are experiencing life for the first time, and still figuring out how to be a person in a society and how to navigate friendships, relationships, hierarchies. it might seem pointless and vain from our adult perspective, but that's why we're /not/ the target demographic. sure, those stories can be shallow, but so can be a sci-fi action novel or a romance. just because this setting is popular and convenient, doesn't make it bad.
"A lovable wimp in over their head who's being pushed around aimlessly by the tides of fate until the protagonist swoops in to fill their life with the excuse-me-he-asked-for-no-pickles energy they've been craving." I love everything about that, and I especially love that you used Luz and Willow for that clip because in their case it eventually works both ways, with both of them defending the other just as fiercely.
I will be honest, I LOVE this trope. It's absolutely formulaic, but it's basically my comfort genre. One thing I'm a bit surprised you didn't touch on is the 'group project worth 90% of your grade', where the hero and like, one friend are put into a teacher-assigned group for a group project that usually involves live combat. This is often where the hero's first bully gets a redemption arc, usually by virtue of 'I have to get a good grade so I'll help you' or something similar,
This brings to mind Sky High, actually. Not the finale, but a situation maybe at the halfway point when the protagonist has to take on two bullies in a game of "Save the Citizen" with the well-being of one of his friends at stake - only he's not partnered with the friend in need (who hasn't figured out a way to utilize his superpower effectively yet), but rather with his own _archenemy_ (who is mostly his enemy because their dads were enemies). And no, I don't remember why he asked the enemy _or_ why the enemy agreed. Went surprisingly well though.
I still get nightmares about not finishing a project or homework because I procrastinated too much, and then feel the weight of failure when I wake up.
I was thinking this the whole time, except I was getting mad because I’m not a fan of Harry Potter and I get unreasonably angry whenever I think about it
The virgin setting your story in a super school for an eazy plot structure vs the chad setting your story in a super school for an eazy way to dump your thousand page worldbuilding notes onto the audience. It is vitally important to the plot that you see the lecture about anchient farming techniques
You know, if I had a nickel for every story that had a hyper specific school curriculum based around skills that no more than 15 people can afford/have knowledge to learn, I'd have enough money to make a hyper specific school curriculum based around skills that no more than 15 people can afford/have knowledge to learn.
I remember a book series called HIVE. Which is essentially a school designed to train the next generation of villains in secret. The teachers are various flavors of Super Villain from the Spy-Fi flair to modern Super Villain. While super powers aren’t common theirs people with basic abilities like psychics and people who can control fire. They also say that the strange cases of spontaneous combustion are from people with fire powers they weren’t able to control but we’re covered up. The main character is a Super Genius and his father is the man who made the school. A good portion of staff and students will die to their own egos and ambitions like any proper villain.
Ok two things: 1. Red definitely picked this topic because she saw G-Witch. 2. As a note about leaving the school, I'm reminded of the Yu-Gi-Oh GX episode in season 4 where Crowler tries to stop everyone from graduating because he doesn't want them to leave.
S4 is pretty good and provides a lot of closure for the characters. Unfortunately, it was never dubbed, so I don’t imagine a lot of normal people don’t know about it. Same goes for the final season of 5Ds.
@@evobrand1210 yee. By that point Crowler has soften up his views of where great duelists can come from, and came to care his students a lot that he didn't have the resolve to see them go
School in and of itself is so stressful. I can’t imagine school where if I do something wrong, hundreds, thousands, or even millions of people could die
Just like how in X-men, during Civil War, there were giant death robots stationed around the school; ready to reduce who ever stepped out of line into dust regardless of age and danger
Discworld is fun because despite having an earlier example of the Wizarding School, Unseen University is already a parody of the trope and avoids pretty much all of the clichés Red talks about in this video. The school's main goal is to teach wizards not to use magic. All the characters of prominence we follow from UU are the faculty members; only one book (Moving Pictures) features a main character who is an UU student. And there is zero teaching involved in the university, because the faculty likes to avoid students as much as possible.
to be fair, more books follow a flunked UU student, though! ... OK, so he has an HONORARY degree, but it's mostly because he hasn't cast that really big one yet, so he's technically a success story...
One crucial aspect of the Super School is to make the Super School matter once the plot interest grows outside of the school. In things like MHA and The Owl House, the plot leaves the school behind and makes you kinda wonder why you were there in the first place, especially in something like MHA where it also involves leaving behind the school cast you were invested in. I think a better example is RWBY where the final events before the leaving the school really are what motivate the characters and the greater stakes of the plot even when they've long since left the school behind.
Owl house it's more a framing of Luz' need for belonging she wasn't getting in normal society. so having a school of weird people where she can also be weird
@@beeaggro2593 Right, I totally get the actual purpose of the school. My critique is more so that once you get into the Belos plot in season 2, going back to Hexside starts feeling a bit superfluous
God I love this trope. X-Men is the obvious biggest culprit of this for me, but an entire school filled with super-powers breeds so many interesting possibilities.
X-Men isn't the first, and it's _definitely_ not the biggest. It might have been the most prominent example in the 20th century (I didn't see most of it), but the biggest in the 21st century is a certain wizard book by She Who Must Not Be Named.
Another fun thing about the super school: A decade or so after you released the story, you can pump out a sequel where the characters are adults, especially if one of them is a teacher herself now.
And then proceed to completely undermine their character development from the initial story, making them utter jerks and their children trying to stay out of their parents' shadow... oh, and ship two of the adults together for no reason *looks angrily at a certain book whose initials are H P A T C C*
Heck, I remember the third or fourth _Revenge of the Nerds_ movie put one of the original nerds as a parental figure and then followed the "next generation" of nerds. I was as shocked as anyone else to find they had done more than two, but much like _Police Academy,_ the studio couldn't stop milking that particular cash cow.
@@MariOmor1 I don't know what HPATCC is, (wait is it something about Harry Potter?) but that sounds like how too many sequel-shows, movies, etc. go (and probably a significant factor in why the Star Wars sequels drew so much hate). It's so common Red complained about it in the Sequels trope talk. It's very annoying, but it makes sense why they do it. They need character development, or at least conflict, so they have to come up with some way for the previous protagonist to be flawed in some way that wasn't resolved in previous installments (and therefore makes the audience feel blind-sided if it wasn't even addressed) in order to leave narrative room for the new protagonist. I hate it too, but I feel compelled to bring up something said in defense of Luke's portrayal in the Last Jedi, "real people don't achieve enlightenment when they're only 24." Of course, it would be cool if whatever flaws the old protagonists has, it's clearly less bad than the ones they already overcame in the previous installments.
@@jeffbenton6183 You're right about the Harry Potter part (it's the Cursed Child), and I also agree with your points on the sequel issues--take Dragon Ball Super for example. Even though I actually like DBS, it's a little odd how Goku went from a savior of the universe at the end of DBZ to "you strong, fight me, oh no I'm beaten, welp time to unlock a new form" character
I'm hoping this comment doesn't get lost amongst thousands, but I HIGHLY recommend the Scholomance trilogy written by Naomi Novik. Her writing is enchanting, and Scholomance was my entrance into her writing. She is my new favorite author currently and I cannot recommend her enough. Especially for folks watching these videos, the fantasy stories she writes are spectacular.
Plus she has a handy way of dealing with the "low stakes" issue - if you can't make it through school alive, you wouldn't make it through life as a wizard without getting eaten. So school (and other students) can actively be trying to kill you. Excellent book series, and her other series/one-offs are good, Spinning Silver and Uprooted in particular.
I came here to comment this, but then thought: Surely someone else has recommended it already! Can vouch for the series. It's not perfect, but I genuinely had a ton of fun (and sadness) while reading it. One of the most interesting magical settings I have read in a long time, also a fantastic protagonist!
@@jamesmorris525it's nowhere near as long winded as the temeraire series. I haven't even picked up the new books in temeraire because it would be such a hassle to catch back up from that start again :p.
I haven't read Temeraire series yet, though it's next on my list. Scholomance is only a trilogy, so if you got as far as victory of eagles in the other series, you'll probably get through these easily@@jamesmorris525
I do wonder if maybe one of the problems with the setting might be that such schools are almost always structured as high schools. College settings feel more open to allowing the students to experience aspects beyond the schooling, since college schedules can sometimes mean you're waiting for hours on end between classes (speaking from experience from when I went). Not to mention, since the students are likely all adults, it's more believable that they would be going places without supervision. Of course, the problem is the fact that other aspects of high schools are far less likely, like taking classes you don't like (though prerequisites do still exist) or the obligation of socialization--or even the obligation to stay on campus. One thing that is also lesser are the cliques, as media tends to switch those to frat/sorority rivalries, and if a character isn't in a dorm, they're kind of separate from that.
That's an interesting point, I think its because for a lot of people (not everyone of course) high school was/is a defining period in their lives, good or bad, but yes I think having a "super collage/university" would be a nice change :=). Also you could play around with the whole "school" setting too, I notice that a lot of these kinds of stories are set in a boarding school environment, you rarely see anybody going home to their family after a long day, so why not change that too?
This made me think about how much potential there is in a story where the MC is actually rejected by the school, instead of getting in. Like Julia’s plotline in the Magicians tv show, for example.
I shudder to think how Julia's plotline may have been bowdlerized by the TV show. It's powerful in the books, but also needs an extreme content warning for horrific adult themes. But, powerful.
During the school under seige part, the one I thought of was RWBY Vol.3 Finale was definitely a moment of "OH FUCK" that no one was prepared for. Great video, Red.
@@stomyn well, they did build it up, but it was a MASSIVE tone shift from cartoon violence were nobody was ever hurt beyond a minor bruise (at least not visibly so. all nameless goons died off-screen), to full-on graphic dismemberment, and named chars dropping by the episode in rather brutal fashions. And it never came back to that same level afterwards either.
For some reason I thought of normal school and the fact that (in America at least) at least in a Super School, the students and faculty try to fight back. In real life, well... it’s not always successful. Heck, it's rarely even occurred to people that they have larger numbers usually.
What immediately sprang to mind for me, was Ender's Game. It's essentially an example of this, but with a few twists - and more importantly, not only does it *play* with those tropes, Ender himself is *trope savvy* enough to tell! Right at the start, he notes how it seems 'all wrong' that the teachers actually seem to *favor* him, putting him on a pedestal and giving him special treatment, rather than being mean to him. Then, it eventually becomes clear that they're doing that specifically to make him a target for bullies, because they want him to develop experience dealing with such 'unstructured threats' as well... Considering that the book predated most of the examples that comes to mind, it's quite interesting that it can subvert, then play into, tropes that have barely *solidified* at that point.
I find it funny that you got through this whole video with exactly zero Harry Potter references. Speaking of Harry Potter one of my favorite things about those books was how relevant the classroom scenes were. Not only where they really frequent, establishing that we were, in fact, in a wizard hi-school, not just a passive setting where the plot can happen outside of class, but they very frequently included some vital plot information, important training for the heroes, cool world building, character development, or some combination. The classroom scenes really grounded the story in the school setting and I haven’t read a book where that was done better.
i'm a simple girl. i trope talk and click immediately. and then proceed to be roasted for 16 minutes about the clichés of my favorite stories. good times lol
Red's doodle characters are always adorable, but I just can't help but giggle at the always teary fren in this vid when they appear. They're just, extra woobie and want to hug them. Their hair almost seems as fluffy as Alinua's too. At first I was surprised Assassination Classroom didn't have a clip cameo, but as I thought about it I realized that it's not a super school. Just a normal school with a super teacher and unusual extra curricular assignment.
She could give Order of the Stick a run for its money, I often find myself wishing she'd make stories out of the recurring or talk-specific characters!
This reminds me of a moment i love in volume 2 of rwby where they go on a big field trip, everyones excited for the adventure and the audience thinks its about to be worldbuilding exposition dump galore. But it shows the teachers chaperoning the protagonists actually doing their job and pretty damn well. It provides an opportunity for the main cast, specifically Yang, Blake and Weiss to introspect and gain more insight to their characters as they confront the question of what they actually plan to do after they finish their studies. The school they're at is teaching them to become "huntresses" - basically monster hunters - but this moment asks the characters what that actually means to them and to find their motivations. It's a small discussion but one i love
Oh definitely. I was chuckling the whole way through Red's list of near-standard tropes as RWBY checks almost every box. First friend/bully magnet - Jaune Group of friends filling party roles - teams First bully (smug, rich, parent issues, becomes a friend later) - Weiss Generic bullies who disappear after a while - Team CRDL Genuine threats infiltrating the school - Emerald/Mercury/Cinder Dance episode - middle of volume 2 School under siege - all of volume 3
@@Wolfeson28don't forget at the very end of "eventually leaving the school and exploring the wider world," which we got at the end of Season 3 with team RWBY all going their separate ways. Yang back home with a missing arm and PTSD, Blake heading home with her "will they, won't they" monkey boyfriend, Weiss forced back home by her father, and finally Ruby exploring the wider world with the remaining memebers if team JNPR as team RNJR
One thing that these stories almost never touch on is falling behind on schoolwork to do the plot. Code Geass isn't a super school, but even it makes Lelouch accountable for homework and class attendance instead of terrorism
It also was a great way to showcase one of the core themes of the show about the disparity of the lives of the Japanese (Eleven) citizens and the Britannian colonizers - scenes back-to-back would show the Japanese resistance fighters desperately struggling for their lives, nearly getting bombed out, or civilians living in the ghettos; and meanwhile, Shirley is fretting over how to ask Lelouch out on a date, or Millie and the student Council are organizing shenanigans about the upcoming festival. It creates a great tension that also drives home the point about how the war and Britannia’s occupation of Japan effects the people living in that society.
Magic: The Gathering had a set all about a magic school and they very deliberately made it so the focus of the school was still normal school subjects, just with magical aid. So Lorehold, the history folks, did magic to bring back long-dead spirits to learn about history, and stuff like that. Quandrix, the math folks, did magic based entirely on mathematical formulae and equations, it was all a neat aesthetic and such. Made for an interesting twist on things. Granted, said magic school was also a college, not a high/middle school, so it had a bit more leeway to do interesting things. Also the 'main characters' in it were two fresh-faced adults getting into planeswalking who were directed there by effectively Miss Frizzle, 5 established students (one for each group) and then a returning major character incognito as a teacher and coming to grips with survivor's guilt. Was a nice time.
But at the same time, Wizards is anti-union, got caught using AI art, is extremely scummy as a business model, and is low-key still kinda homophobic and racist. None of their IP deserves praise.
@@DragonbIaze052I have yet to play it, but apparently Pathfinder 2e’s Strength of Thousands is one of that system’s best adventure paths overall. From what I understand it’s Afrofuturist magic college, and apparently done quite well.
I can’t wait for the trope talk on animal companions. Why does every popular franchise need a lovable mascot? Every ancient hero from Gilgamesh to Perseus has a named steed, and every crime solving team needs a talking dog. The unregistered member of the five man band. It’s everywhere!
My guilty pleasure movie in the genre is literal "Super School" Sky High: all the tropes are there, competently if unexcitingly executed in a cute way, the cast is charming (looking at you, Danielle Panabaker) and you have early Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Bruce Campbell as Coach (Sonic)Boomer and Kurt Russel as a Superhero. It's not a great movie and falls apart in lots of ways, but it's a nice "rest your brain" flick.
One thing that is also worth mentioning is that school experience can be pretty different depending on where in the world you're from. But because english is currently a _lingua franca_ for the whole world, a lot of super-school stories are specifically _US-American_ super-school stories. A lot of the tropes are just not as relatable as the author might expect to a _large_ portion of their audience. That's not exactly a problem, or something you can do anything about, but it is an interesting phenomenon.
Can we all appreciate the fact that lots of us were listening to Red's description and we were all thinking the same thing, half expecting Red to show a clip of HP. But then half way through we realized that Red is deliberately avoiding it.
I noticed she was intentionally avoiding it when she was describing different antagonists for super school settings and was literally describing Draco and Voldemort but not showing then lol
@@JMajik24Rich bully with a complex that is desperate to please one or both of their parents is a trope that exists in mundane school media as well, so while I imagine a lot of us thought of Draco, his character type was an old classic before 1998.
Hey, red! Trope talk suggestion for you; "The incident" or "Noodle incidents" are a literary tool of a trope that gives more literary weight (funniness, scaryness, impact on the audience) to an event or noun than a description would, mostly by context and the reader's imagination. Named Noodle Incidents because of a short series of Calvin and Hobbes comics wherein everyone at school gives the eternally frustrated 6-year-old grief about something he did in the past that is now known only as "The noodle incident." It is hinted at vaguely many times, but the writer ultimately leaves it up to your imagination; which is a strength because whatever the audience dreams up will be way more literarily impactful (in this case funny) than anything he could write down. And that's not even the only time that comic uses a noodle incident, see, there's this kids book calvin always wants read called "Hampster Hewwy and the Gooey Kablooey" and Now I'm ranting. Point is; by leaving the event, place, person or item, open to interpretation, it has more literary weight than the creator could have possibly written. The Legendary Super Saiyan may have looked a lot cooler in your head than just goku+blonde+power. Another instance this trope is used is in an S.C.P. story wherein a certain slime MUST NEVER come into contact with a human corpse. Why? That's classified. A foundation researcher files the suggestion to test the slime on a human corpse because it's never listed what happens, only that it is a V E R Y bad idea, and the researcher is curious. He gets demoted and heavily scolded by an O-5, who states "Just don't." That one of the 0-5's, who have seen untold horrible horrible things, REALLY doesn't want this to happen, forces the reader to come up with something even the 0-5's fear, and is therefore even more terrifying than anything the writer could have written down. A "Noodle Incident" or "The Incident" is a rare trope that involves telling the audience that something exists or happened, but not telling them what it was, in order to give the plot point more narrative weight than a description would give it, partly because of the imaginations of the audience. It is a great trope that I think you should cover. I'm going to keep suggesting it on every trope talk and mythology video untill you do.
I'm surprised you mentioned SCP and didn't use procedure 110-montauk as your example. For those who don't know, SCP-231 is a young girl pregnant with a world ending demon. Procedure 110-montauk is something the foundation does regularly to keep it contained. We are never told exactly what the procedure is, just given a lot of pointers to how bad it is. Your imagination does the rest. I highly recommend reading the full SCP-231 article.
I recommend doing a PhD :D You'll be at the cutting edge of your field which tries to make previously thought to be impossible ideas a reality. Just, beware the horrible levels of stress, depression, anxiety, and painfully low salary.
A great example of both the Genre being discussed and of a Gundam show. So... uh... if you haven't watched it and you want to... err... Remember that. The last part, I mean.
@@steelgriffin7716So expect the story to get dark despite the cute character designs of the protagonists? Yeah, if you are going to a school to learn about piloting giant robots, that most likely sounds like a specialized military academy.
Is the Super School trope being too formulaic and repetitious apropos or just funny? Also appreciate that Red has included Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch from Mercury. But more importantly, I appreciate Red included the scene where Chuchu made that bully girl 2000’s Windows PC Shutdown Noise.
This episode made me really appreciate "Welcome to Demon School! Iruma-kun", it plays in the "super school" space, but has so many twists and subversions it really comes off as a great and refreshing take on the trope. Highly recommend!
(TW: c-ptsd, school-caused trauma) As someone who's c-ptsd is partially loaded with a shit ton of school-caused trauma, I have SO MANY mixed feelings about this trope. This video put many of those reasons into words and helped me with processing my feelings about it. Thank you ❤
Wow, watching this had me thinking back on the Owl House, which I and I think a not insignificant number of others thought “man, for a show with a magic school they’re really leaving a lot of school stuff on the table”. Hearing red go through through this rundown of “typical super school plot arc”, it finally came together that they had down ALL of the super school in the brief handful of episodes actually featuring school. Just like it’s notable that the romantic arc and “hidden secrets” plots worked I think better than most by cutting straight the heart of them and stripping them of the usual water treading that accompanies those elements to attempt to extend interest, they did the same with the super school and I didn’t even notice.
Now I want to write a story that starts like a typical Super School story but the protagonist really fails the entry and the story goes a totally different way. :D
I know that the Magisterium series has our hero, one Callum Hunt, *TRY* to fail to get into magic school, but the most prestigious mage teacher is like "Young Callum obviously has a lot of talent and raw power (he's right, Callum's functionally Harry Potter) so we must train him so he can control his power" and takes him on anyway.
Julia’s plotline in the Magicians tv show sort of fits. Though she’s more of a secondary protagonist than the actual MC, and the school itself isn’t entirely typical either.
Yeah, but will we actually ever see the school again? I mean, it was glimpse from afar FIVE seasons later, but only to show that it's still ruined and overrun by monsters... Honestly, eventually they'll have to go back, right? I only watched up till season 8 since 9 was only on Churchroll, shame...
I need to go back and catch up. Last thing I really remember is the moment that [immortal husband to the main villain consciousness] finally piped back up and spoke to his host. Regarding RWBY in the broader scope: I actually find it really charming, despite the the plot grinding off the rails on occasion. One of my favorite moments in the entire series, that I've seen so far, was when Ruby summoned the genie housed in one of the 4(?) artifacts; not to make any kind of wish or ask, but to use the time slowing side effect the summoning creates to focus on getting her mind into the space to do what she needed to. It was brilliantly played out, and I loved the the genie's response. I'm paraphrasing, but something to the effect of "no one's actually done this before, but it's terribly clever and I'm amused. I'll allow it just this once, but never again, okay?" Queue the flash frying of a bunch of suped up and menacing monsters.
@@RipOffProductionsLLC Hard disagree there. Volume 4 and 5 are pretty rough, though they still have their high points, but once the party are reunited it's been better than V1 and 2 were. V8's ending was a bump in the road, but V7 was great and V6 and 9 are probably my favourites of the whole show. The show's fights have certainly changed a fair bit, but I still very much enjoy ones that came after V3, and it's hard to argue that things like the animation quality and voicework haven't improved. Like, remember when most of the characters were so pale they seemed to glow and their noses were invisible, and half the cast sounded monotone for all of their lines? Compare Garret Hunter as Adam in V6 to his performance in V3, or Jessica Nigri as Cinder in V7-8 to her early appearances, or hell, even the main four to their first few go-arounds. Monty cast friends rather than professionals and it shows in the early volumes, much less so now that most of them have more experience under their belts.
15:56 this part is why MHA's later seasons have focused so much on internships and work studies. Taking them off campus to meet other heroes and placing them in more and more situations where there are less training wheels and where they're expected to participate in larger hero vs villain fights.
That's why the provisional license exam works so much. The government doesn't have enough heroes to fight. They had to resort to expediting the license process for hero course students just so they can have someone to call on to help. They set it up well with the Stain arc where Deku, Iida, and Shoto were told they did something illegal by fighting Stain without hero licenses. Then they got their whole class training. But attacked again to show why they need to train and get their licenses immediately. Then they go their licenses. But Shoto and Bakugo didn't. It was such a smart way to keep them out of the Big 3 arc. They can't go to work studies because they dont have licenses. Then when they finally do, they get to shine under Endeavor.
As a professor, the only change in my unexpected / almost missed test dreams is that now I’m the one who’s supposed to be giving the test… and no, that doesn’t make it any less stressful and unpleasant 😅
I guess I should listen to the full podcasts and not just the RU-vid shorts. Even so, it was GX specifically that I was surprised to see. And Gundam in general.
Well GWitch Is very much an example of the trope in action. Just bear in mind it's still *Gundam*. with all of the baggage and... Challenges that entails for our protagonists.
@@hazey_dazey yeah the video footage tends to be less optimal examples and more "shows red clearly is resisting the urge to rant about". Which honestly i dont mind, red has fairly similar taste to me so i can regularly get good recommendations / just the feeling of "OMG you like this too" from the trope talks
My favorite example of this trope is "Welcome to Demon School". It's not groundbreaking in any way, but it uses thr trope well IMO, and does a few interesting things. See, the whole plot follows Iruma, a human, going to Demon School, and the adventures and hijinks he gets into. However, he has to hide the fact he's, well, a human, since demons eat people. Luckily, most demons have no clue what humans are actually like, so his main focus is just trying not to be obvious about not being a demon. It helps give a reason for him to actually care about passing classes (since being able to use magic is an innate part of being a demon), and the stakes can be higher for him than others because demons are more resilient and just a tad crueler than humans. It's amazing, and I love it dearly
Me and my GF watch it (and she is buying the manga) and we both love it (she love it more than me). I just really like Iruma and the class they are great character.
I gotta admit, it's probably the easiest setting you can use for a story. It comes prepackaged with everything you need to tell a good story and all the writer has to do is make the gimmick cool and come up with shenanigans for the protags to get into.
Can vouch, yeah pretty much a use it and forget about it kinda deal. I live in a country where the culture is a lot more conservative and has very neat expectations for you to hit, and we get a taste of mid power school known as enlistment. So pretty much a set thing I have to live with almost routinely.
Reading/ watching mashle, magic and muscles knowing they hit all of the major beats of a super school story while also being a spoof on JKR while being genuinely compelling in under 200 chapters. This story boils down all of the best parts of super school fiction and just does it so well
Mashle was great because it doesn't take itself seriously in any way. Even right down at the end when God gave Mashle a power boost because he thought it'd be funny.
Now I want to right a story where the protagonist gets a letter to the super school and then fails the entrance exam and has to figure out their powers on their own, perhaps with other rejects. Maybe they can have adventures solving the problems the school ignores, with small-scale but more relatable conflicts while the school's alumni go saving the world in the background.
Every time Red said "Super School" I kept hearing "soup or school" and then my chicken noodle soup of a brain kept wondering what the soup du jour was and whether or not I actually had to eat it.
I admire the fact that you went 16 minutes discussing super schools and didn’t mention once the very popular magical school in a very remote location where the wizard protagonist goes to that we were all secretly thinking of that you likely passed over because of the (understandable) controversy they contain Which I totally get. Mushoku Tensei is a hard series to recommend.
School did a wonderful job of preparing me for a future while also mentally and emotionally beating any passion for that future out of me. I remember the last thing my counselor said to me to try to convince me to go to college: "you're a brilliant boy, you just need to stop thinking so much"
Ah, "Just stop thinking!", the classic advice. Almost as good as "You should smile more" or "You should do some exercise". Sure Janet, going on a nice little run from time to time will totally disappear the 15 years of bullying I endured. Growing up in a household so great I was sure my parents wished I'd kill myself will feel like nothing if I'd just smile :)
@@NukkuiskoHyvinVaiPois for a bit more context, the conversation was when I went to get my diploma because I had to do a remedial English class to make up a credit. I was widely considered the "smart kid that didn't care about grades" and talked to her often. I explained all the reasons why I didn't want to go to college (cliffsnotes version, I wasn't interested in any major, anything worth having would require English credits, which I struggled with, and what's the point of going six figures into debt for the sake of possibly getting a job you'll need to pay the debt off) apparently my reasoning was too much thought.
What I like about this setting is the unparalleled amount of badass mentor figures. I can’t really picture any fantastic school setting without at least one badass teacher and that dork teacher.
I just realized that the Kobayashi Maru test at Starfleet Academy fits the trope of the ridiculous entrance test that's secretly a test of character. Would that make Starfleet something akin to this trope (it's a military system and not a school but the point about structure and episodic natures still fits).
Red mentioning the internal hierarchy thing has me thinking about Assassination Classroom - a super school confined only to the lowest rank of the hierarchy, which feels like the logical extreme. There's also way more emphasis on the actual school stuff there than is typical for theses stories, as the "we-must-become-great-assassins-to-murder-our-octopus-alien-teacher-thing" /thing/ is explicitly a secret from the rest of the school. As far as Super Schools go it's one of my favorites.
I wonder if "back in school" nightmares were as common before so much attention was put on "do well in school or YOU WILL BE A FAILURE IN LIFE STRUGGLING TO AVOID HOMELESSNESS!!!!!!!"
My armchair psychologist opinion is that they were just as common, but more importantly, _not nightmares._ The lesser pressure would make it less of a Suffering Box, but it's still a place you're going every day from the moment you develop a smidgen of sentience; the subconscious presence of it would be less malignant, but just as existent. The real question here is, *_was there ever_* a time when school as we know it did exist *but* that pressure wasn't around?
"Formulaic" doesn't mean "bad." Just because you know what's coming doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. And never forget, We All Of Us Stand On The Shoulders Of Giants.
Surprised at the lack of RWBY rep, particularly for the School Under Siege bit. Of the many versions of that trope, RWBY's is the one that sticks out the most in my mind.
If I might suggest an awesome super-school story: "Welcome to demon school, Iruma-kun" is aaaaawesooooooome. Also every time any of the characters smiles it melts my heart, I must protect them
Absolutely love the dedication to not have a single Harry Potter example despite the fact that it does LITERALLY EVERYTHING BROUGHT UP IN THIS VIDEO (because it is The Most formulaic story out there)
The book Red Rising sets up what you're led to belive is a standard Super School situation but then after the kids are accepted starts with each kid being forced to kill another, then put into teams, told to take the other teams' banners by any means, and then dropped off in the wilderness with little shelter and some weapons.
The Marvel comic “Strange Academy” is one of my more recent favorites, imagine if all of the magical superheroes got together to help educate the next generation of wizards. It’s very fun.
@@cosygoose1813Hadn't heard of it but not surprised given the big two's superhero comic books are generally *very* harsh newer characters, especialy teens, even when not killing them off. The Young X-Men, The Hellions, and especially The Teen Titans are all clear examples of how much they'll be pushed aside, forgotten about, and/or simply killed because they don't have the name brand value of older characters even though it's basically a Catch-22.
Proposed additional optional - but - common super school trope: the in class required activity that reveals something about each participant as a person, ie summoning a familiar, identifying your innate talent, or facing your deepest fear. The only exception I can think of where the actual class work is inherently interesting.
This trope is one of the reasons that MonsterHearts is a favourite TTRPG of mine for most of the reasons listed here. Games built around social drama run so much smoother when the characters are all forced into a confined environment together for most of their day, and a school setting achieves that while also feeling totally natural. Usually I'll also make the school a boarding school in the middle of nowhere, since that doubles down on the feeling.
Little Witch Academia Although it centers around magic, the students still have to study, take tests, do mundane projects, phys-ed, etc. It's a school, after all. Most of the episodes center around these. The protag, Akko doesn't get an unfair initiation-test. She's just kind of a screwup. Her shy bff Lotte isn't a bullied-nerd. She's mostly just ignored by the rest of the student-body. Then there's potions-expert, Sucy who is amazing.
I'm in my mid-thirties and still have dreams about school. They aren't as bad anymore, I often remember that I'm no longer a student and can leave. I also sometimes have daydreams of what-ifs, being back there, and those usually make me sad. I'm glad to be an adult and free of that. I always loved learning, but school was never a place for that.
