So you blame literally everyone but the murdering psychopath 911. Perhaps you have heard of it. Or perhaps those are too many numbers to hold in your brain. Instead of sending her husband away and getting her gun add going to the kids room to kill him perhaps you could have called 911 and add the police remove him Nice job ignoring that she had absolutely no marks on her
@@robertruge2916she sent her husband away got her gun what do her grandsons room andmurdered him She did not call the police and ask him to remove him. She did not ask her husband to stay. She did not do any of the million things that would not involve murdering her grandson.
I've heard this 911 call. I dunno what really led up to the initial shots fired, but after that? The woman clearly executed this kid. She had him down, he was dead to rights, and she kept on shooting him. She wanted him dead. That's murder.
Yes, she had it all figured out. All except the 911 call. Why did this gruesome hag think death was the right & only option? His family were a mess. Had his parents or grandparents been better people, he'd have matured very differently.
I agree. One shot and screaming for him to get out? Okay, I could see shooting from fear or in defense. Two shots in the back? On top of 4 other shots? That’s murder.
That's my take, as well. Going to get the gun and coming back before the confrontation is understandable given his history and her age, as is shooting him once or twice in a moment if he did attack her. But he's the one calling 911 and expressing the terror of someone scared they're about to die. He was incapacitated and no threat to her from that moment on.
It does sound like you say but I thot it might have been to protect her husband from any fight that might happen, even the stress of another verbal one and like TG says she might have been afraid Fred would have kicked him out. Im just not sure it was so planned out. A complicated tragedy
@@CaptainSnackbeard- And if she was so fearful (I'm not saying she wasn't), to the point of buying and wielding a gun, she should've taken the reasonable step of sending him back to his parents. If I feel like I have to be armed against a person in my home, that person can't stay in my home.
Out of control teenagers should not be left in the care of elderly grandparents. The parents of that boy set her up for horrible failure. Very sad story.
This kid really needed better guidance. It's unfortunate that he got dumped off with his grandmother when what he really needed was a stay at a psychiatric treatment facility. I wish the state was more open to helping families seek long term commitment for family members with serious mental issues.
Didn't reagan do away with state run psychiatric hospitals when he was the original "make America great again" guy? Maybe he was talking About south america. Maybe he should have specified
I agree, I also call bs on her story that he demanded 2 grand and the car off her and also attacked her, she made that up. As for the "let go" in the call, if you hear it, it's clear she said it in response to him grabbing a hold of the barrel in order to try and stop her from shooting him again, when she wrestled it off him she did just that. This wasn't fear, as she said she wanted to make him listen to her, she saw him as a brat and was mad she couldn't control this "out of control" teen. The kid had his parents divorcing and his sister dying, not surprised he wanted to get high sometimes, he needed support and counselling.
@joan-lisa-smith agreed. She had her ducks all in a row and her gun was ready. Had he not made the heart-wrenching cry for help to 911, it likely wouldn't have gone to court. She'd have gotten away clean. That poor dumb kid was experiencing a lot of psychological baggage as he flailed through puberty. Had he lived to adulthood, his brain would have finished developing by 25. The right support, love & counselling could have helped him make better choices. Instead, Gran made yet another horrendous choice for him. His family were awful.
She knew all she had to do was call the cops and have him kicked out. Instead, she hid the gun from her husband and sent him outside while she confronted the grandson. The fact she kept shooting over and over, even in the back, shows she meant to kill him. I don't buy the senile old lady act.
Not true. The police can't force somebody out of a home unless they get a restraining order or whatever the equivalent is in MI. Or, the person committed a crime that warrants immediate removal. Either way, you can't just have police come and remove someone you don't like, you have to go through a bureaucratic process, usually.
@@tron.44- He wasn't her legal dependent or a legal resident of her home. He was a guest. I'm pretty sure she could've trespassed him from her home. And wasn't he 18 or about to turn 18 that year? And he planned to flee his probation violation. And he planned to steal her vehicle and $2K of her money to flee the probation violation. I don't know about MI, but officers in other states have responded to people having a mental health crisis, unarmed, nonviolent, at their own home (including minors) by unaliving them. I don't believe that MI couldn't have arrested him, let alone removed him from the home. And she probably lied about him hitting and kicking her, after speaking to her attorney. So, she could've lied about him having assaulted her before calling the police to arrest him for threateningto steal from her and flee. He was on his way to incarceration anyway. And lying about him assaulting her, to get him out of her house immediately, would've been better than taking his life.
I believe that her actions were premeditated. She purchased the gun and didn’t tell her husband and then told her husband to leave the house. She sought the boy out in the house and continued to shoot him while he was on the phone with 911. Maybe she didn’t intend to murder him but she 100% planned and intended to confront him with a gun. What did she think was going to happen? She baited him and then tried to cry wolf. He may have been a challenging kid but he was still just a kid.
Poor parenting, more like. They raised an out-of-control child, semi-orphaned their son by divorce, and then dumped him on grandma to take care of, drugs and all. Real trauma- for grandma.
@@nanettevantriesteharder2469 Far from consistently true. If you dig onANY family, you can find material to support this or the opposite theory. Addiction brings with it its own pathology, and relational issues.
@@nanettevantriesteharder2469 I know someone named nannette in real life. She's a drug addict, tried to murder a kid when she was a teenager, and is now a street musician. She came from a good home. Some people named nannette just turn out to be horrible people
As a psych nurse, “doing a little spice” is not at all like “a little” marijuana. It took 4 police officers to hold down the 19 year old that came to my facility, and the shots did not work…he was screaming and banging on the window for several hours-VERY SCARY! Also, he NEVER was the same-he became psychotic from 1 weekend of “partying”. Saddest thing I ever saw. Imagine dealing with THAT as a 72 year old. This child was in serious trouble and needed help-but so did grandma-they were both failed by EVERYONE involved, and now he is dead and she will die in jail-TOTAL tragedy!
But to the point where she shot him multiple times like that, he had 6 shot gun wounds. She also had her husband leave the house before she killed her grandson.
I've worked with a lot of foster kids. They often end up with grandparents. I know that keeping them in the family is best. But also, they are the ones who raised the people who were such bad parents they lost the kids. It's not always their fault, and people change. It's just a whole mess. I've seen kids go to the grandparents where I was absolutely shocked that the state thought it was a good idea
Yes this is true. As a school nurse I've seen some grandparents that have guardianship and it totally explains what happened to the parents. Whereas other grandparents their child was just an outlier and they're doing an amazing job. For me personally my grandmother raised three exceptional women, but my mom was not one of them. She chose to party too hard and eventually got addicted to drugs. The best parts of my childhood always involve my grandmother, and she's the one that helped teach me how people really should be.
@jessicaolson490 I'm so glad your grandma was there for you and sorry your mom wasn't. My mom is a schizophrenic drug addict. My grandma did the best she could though. I had one girl who was sent to her grandma while I'm practically yelling at her case worker "you realize grandma is the one who got her mom on dr*gs right?!?" Then another little girl whose grandma was amazing and begging for her but the state said Nah, let's send her to stay with her unstable aunt. It's a crazy system. And yes, I totally agree, sometimes the grandparents did the best they could and the parent was just an outlier for sure.
@@Sarahopal- I think I responded to you in another thread. My parents abused my 5 siblings and I, and we all suffer from mental health issues today. I don't know of any of us being at risk of having our kids taken away, but I know I've sometimes struggled to parent well. Being better than my parents is a really low bar, and not doing what they did doesn't determine what I should actually do in a particular situation. While I've never been violent, I have slipped into authoritarianism sometimes when other approaches haven't been effective (at least quickly enough for my patience at the time). So, I have some sympathy for people who had poor parenting and are poor parents themselves. Being a good parent can be very difficult when one was raised with poor parenting.
@loki2240 oh 100% ❤️ I hope I didn't sound like I lack empathy for anyone involved. We are all doing the best we can. Sometimes the best we have isn't enough but that's what you have. My mom suffers from schizophrenia, addiction and DID. She was an awful mom, but she did the best she could. I had my daughter when I was barely 16 and I was a good mom for the first couple years. Then I really struggled. You get your coping abilities from your parents. If they don't have any either, then you aren't just born with them. They aren't able to teach them. I take care of 2 little girls sometimes right now. Their momma worked so hard to get them back and I love her, I want her to do well. She's just really struggling because nobody ever showed her that life doesn't have to be a constant struggle. She has zero coping skills. But she's doing the best she can and I applaud that. Every tiny win is still a win. So I do what I can to help and I try and show her coping skills. That's amazing that you were able to break the cycle. It can be insanely difficult to not fall into habits you were shown as a child. Some friends of mine started an organization here that helps struggling parents Before child services gets involved. So they can try to avoid ever getting into the foster system. They offer to take in kids (into vetted, stable families) for a short time so parents can focus on getting sober, getting housing etc.. when there's a fear that their kids may be taken. They are such a compassionate and awesome group. I wish we had way more groups like them. God bless ❤️
She had NO injuries WHATSOEVER. Everything he is listing out in this video is what the psychopath grandma made up to defend murder. Obviously he cannot defend himself being dead. Ironic that the guy in the video tries to sell himself as "professional analyst" but does not do something as simple to clarify these are unsupported allegation with no evidence whatsoever by a convicted murderer.
This was a premeditated murder. Buying the gun and not telling anyone is a red flag then she tells her husband to leave and then shoots her grandson. This is pretty open and shut
she bought the gun because he was clearly dangerous and feared for her safety (and rightly so). You think her intention was to kill him from the beginning? The kid sounds completely unhinged. I dont blame her for shooting him honestly. She shouldnt have gone after him and shot him more though. People cant act in a completely unhinged manner and then complain when people retaliate. Someone was going to be killed because of this kid.
People who leave those kinds of comments are usually young and have no life experience. The kid was a menace and they were too old to defend themselves. Anyone who's dealt with drug addicts knows how scary it can be.
@@MyEnemyI've never heard of a successful self-defense case in which the defender followed around the perpetrator for several minutes, and shot them multiple times after they were no longer a threat.
@@MyEnemy First, let me say, I am old. Never had kids so none of these problems arose in my life. Next, let me say; this is typical behavior of too many youngsters now-a-days. Some teenagers want to do what they want to do and not have to suffer the consequences for their bad decisions. They don't respect authority or wisdom that comes with life and experience. He may have had some problems and his mother thought by sending him to his grandmother to raise would be best for him and probably for herself and the rest of her family. Grandma wasn't taking any of that $hit and only saw one way to change things. Not sure how I would have handled this but buying a gun would have been the last thing on my mind. I could have been her, very easily.
@@Jimmy_Watt The key is whether Sandra perceived him as no longer a threat. When the first shot did not drop him, she may have feared that he would continue to attack her. Once you hit or injure or even tase or shoot a drug addict, they may just become more maddened and pursue vengeance. Remember that Sandra was filled with adrenaline at this point, and was indeed a weak old lady pitted against a strong young man. I'm not even sure of her mobility, and whether she could have run out of the house and called for help.
She didn't have to. She could've said no, from the beginning. And she could've sent him back to his parents long before she bought a gun and fatally shot him.
She was found to be a controlling bully throughout her life. Numerous times arrangements were made for him to go back because of her domineering ways and SHE those options because in her control freak world losing control would be a mark on her character that she spent so many years playing. She showed her true colours. She’s not a frail and kindly lady. She was a life long bully.
Seems to me the kid was the one defending himself. Maybe I missed something but it sounds like she confronted him with a gun and then if he started kicking I would too, wouldn't you?
Maybe her lawyer could have made a dementia defense. The shooting seemed premeditated but totally irrational. She could have had him jailed instead and refused to take him in again.
I started watching you because you were informative, well spoken, and professional. But I stayed for the funny ass quips like "in a crisis, hydration is key" 😂 love your humor man ❤
Remember, reality isn't like a video game where you have a nice clear crosshairs, you have to line up the sights over the target so they're largely obscured by the body of the gun and the hands. Also, a gun that hasn't been fired much often has a lot of oil in it that will vaporize into a cloud that obscures at the moment of shooting. It's really common for the attacker to turn at the moment the decision to fire and just not notice this soon enough if you're shooting quickly. Combined with age and panic, this should be an expected limitation of actions, culpability should depend on morality of the accused not a technicality of how their actions are imperfect and imprecise. So by itself, this doesn't prove much.
@@Treblaine I respectfully disagree. Using your own logic: being elderly with slowed reflexes, likely living with some arthritis… it is quite a feat that she was able to hit him/shoot him at all. It HAD to be deliberate (the TWO shots in the back). Murder.
@@JDoe001 Does she have arthritis? You're just concluding she's guilty based on a condition she could have but you don't know if she had. This rough reasoning is why I think she's innocent, people are clearly jumping to conclusions.
@@Treblaine I’ve never met anyone her age that doesn’t have arthritis; moreover, EVERYONE at her age has slower reflexes. It’s a fact of life. Do you personally attack people who debate with you regularly? That’s a sign of something. Insecurity? You can’t be wrong?
1/3 of Jonathan's GSW was to his back. The murder IMO was premeditated. Jonathan was wrong, but so was Sandra. It's just a sad situation that could've been prevented.
@@robertgiles9124 she confronted him and shoot him in the back...Are you really saying this is the right way of dealing with this? There was any history of him being violent?
Can you even imagine that while in the middle of getting divorced and taking care of a child with a brain tumor, then getting a phone call saying that your son has been killed by your own mother!!sheesh, poor lady
And your drug-addicted son is cared by your own mother, because...? Poor boy, he just wanted to write poetry, bake cakes for his grandmother, and study to become an engineer.
@@soavemusicaImagine your sibling having a brain tumor and turning to drugs and mischief to cope. Imagine just calling the cops when said unrully teen acts out knowing full well he will go to jail because of a failed piss test. If she was truly afraid why did she tell her husband to walk the dog? If it was self defense why did she keep shooting when he was on the phone? The fact the grandma wasnt injured says premeditation.
Sandra had no injuries. She clearly lied when she said she'd been attacked. Asking her husband to go for a walk before the shooting suggests that she'd already planned to do something he would not have approved.
11:03 why would she be worried about her husband kicking her grandson out of the house but not confronting her grandson with a gun? If he was left to live on the streets he would at least be alive and have a chance to choose a different path in life.
Layne's daughter, Jennifer Hoffman, told Judge Denise Langford Morris: "Do not show mercy. She showed no mercy when she planned, stalked and murdered my son in his bedroom. Sandra Layne is pure evil and if given the opportunity would surely kill again."Apr 18, 2013
In the moment, she may have considered how things might play out in a few years, should her grandson survive and seek revenge. I am sorry for this outcome.
The grandmother held her legal gun in her home and used it after being kicked and punched by a man who was a family member She fired in self defense. He could have left.
@twilightgardenspresentatio6384 im sorry but going up to him after he then runs away to call the police for help to shoot him again, is clearly not self defense.
Any "normal" grandparent would rather be dead than kill their own grandchild, no matter the kid's behavior. Some of the comments here siding with her make me feel like the world is full of more sociopaths than not.
Any "normal" kid doesn't demand that their grandparents give them money and a car. Lol. The kid is probably the sociopath, and never had any consequences growing up. The parents (who ever they are) were probably terrible parents. Granted, I don't think the kid should have been killed. He failed his drug tests, so he would be going to jail. *Grandma is off her rocker.
Almost beyond comprehension why are peaple still having children ?life on earth War zone ,What part of end times ,looming Apocalypse do peaple fail to understand ,selfish peaple connecting with wicked spirits how ?pathway mind altering substances. Do drugs shake hands with the devil .
Looks like grandma was driven over the edge by an out of control drugged up teen. The process took time. She was probably suffering from pre-dementia and anxiety and unable to deal anymore. Such teens can be unbelievably aggressive even without the drugs. Having a monster kid like that in your house when you are old and frail is a nightmare most people don't handle well. I would not have been able to convict her, because I have a reasonable doubt about her guilt. Love your show and you have a great sense of dry humor. Now psychoanalyze why you love cacti so much. I'd love to know. 🌵🌵🌵🌵
Everything can't always be the states (i.e the taxpayer) duty. My child's welfare and correct and loving upbringing is *my* responsibility, no one else's. This is only the families fault.
My uncle was troubled, and my grandmother shot him six times. He survived, and the police told my grandmother that if he showed up again she should try to aim better. (He was just her son in law.)
It's strange that we expect people who find themselves in life & death situations to behave in cool, rationally defensible ways, and with a high degree of moral clarity. In reality, life & death struggles are usually very chaotic and irrational.
@@JaegerDives maybe your answer is nonsensical? are you talking out of experience? when you were in a life and death struggle? probably not. i thought so
I’m from Detroit. When I was younger my brother and I were terrorizing my grandma so she pulled a .22 out on us. She said it wasnt going to kill us just teach us a lesson. Michigan grandmas built different.
Is it unimaginable that these misbehaving kids might attempt to snatch the gun from grandma thinking she would actually use it? And then what do the kids do with the gun now? Honestly, families in the US should avoid ever having firearms in their home.
@@peterfazio9306, In the US, we used to have Rifle teams at schools. Kids on the rifle teams would bring their rifles to school. The problems we see today didn't exist 100 years ago. 1960's is when this stuff started to happen. Multiple generations of child abuse and neglect, and drug addictions is the likely source of the problem.
Why are problem grandchildren always send to their grandmother's The stress is just to much. The parents are responsible for their children. Some children are terrible.
He shouldn't have been left in her care...she's a vulnerable elderly lady..it was too much for her to cope with..I'm sure this was out of her usual good character...tragic events
There was a little girl at the park yesterday when I took my girls. She was growling, blocking the slide and trying to punch my girls. I went to figure out who her parents were so they could help. This little old lady stands up. I am not exaggerating, she was 85 years old easily. Could barely walk, barely see, shuffled with a cane. It broke my heart. She felt awful but couldn't do much. Her husband was surprisingly spry for his age but still. She said this was her great granddaughter and she had raised her mother too. She seemed nice. But she had raised the last couple generations of women who lost their kids so..... 🤷♀️
@@Sarahopal- My aunt got pregnant and married young. She only had the one child, but she and my uncle (her husband) ended up doing a lot to raise my biological uncle's 2 kids - and then they did even more to raise the 3 kids of 1 of those kids (their niece). They were also doing a lot to raise the child of one of the great neices they helped raise. But they had made a point to scale back some, including because they had 2 grandchildren they wanted to spend time with. And then my uncle passed away this past December. He was an awesome uncle, and he was like a father to 3 generations of other people's kids (who he wasn't related to biologically).
I lean towards thinking her actions may have been more calculated than people are giving her credit for. I am sure the situation was getting to her. I can only imagine how stressed and overwhelmed and hopeless she felt. Like they would never escape dealing with him, things would never get better, and him being gone permanently was her only chance at having peace. Certainly not justifying her actions, but it seems like that could have been her frame of mind at the time. Makes me wonder if perhaps she wanted him out, but Grandpa was letting him stay and she was dealing with the worst of his behavior.
She was fed up with this kid. He was bringing chaos into her life. Even prison was preferable. Sandra may be guilty of murder, but honestly, she probably thought she was doing the world a favor. Adrenaline, anger, and frustration motivated her choice to kill him. Very sad.
@@harbard642 Agreed. Why are they defending her. She didn't need to murder him. She had an anger issue obviously and why most people do not need a firearm.
Have you lost your mind? Are you defending this person? You seem like the type of person who wouldn't have made this comment if a grandfather murdered his granddaughter.
I love my last remaining grandmother more than anyone. But if by some ungodly reason me or any of her other grand kids raised a hand in anger towards her, I hope she would plug us too.
I'm sure she was tired of being terrorized by him and knew he wasn't going to stop doing it. She wasn't going to let him steal from her again. Probably did buy the gun for self-defense, but that day she decided to kill him and that's why she continued to shoot him even after the 911 call. He was on the path of lifelong criminal and doing similar things to other people. Perhaps she thought taking him out was the right thing to do, so he wouldn't be able to harm other people in the future.
@WASIV. My thoughts, too. People her age have no experience with drugs, they’ve heard nothing but horror stories. Pot, synthetic marijuana, heroin are all the same to them. They make people crazy and dangerous. They could kill you in the middle of the night while you’re asleep.
@@darthlaurel- Should've called the cops, and should've sent him back to his parents before buying a gun. She still could've bought a gun for self-defense, in case he came back. But it didn't make sense to let him stay in her home, if she felt she needed a gun to protect herself from him.
I think that most people don't know what it is like to live in a home with a Jonathon. I'm not excusing Sandra, but to live in constant tension, constant worry, constant fear, never knowing what will happen next, wears down a person. He may not have been abusive at that time, but when you live with that hanging over your head, sometimes you just want to get away, you just want it to end. As an older woman, I'm sure she felt vulnerable with him around, and nobody should have to live that way in their own home. There were much better ways to handle it, but when you are living with that kind of stress day after day, it can be hard to stay rational. Very tragic, but ultimately, she should never have had to live with him in her home.
4:38 "no injuries whatsoever on her body" ... then you start listing out things he "SUPPOSEDLY" did.... obviously according to the grandmother as he obviously could not talk... The grandmother is a cold blooded murderer, and probably a psychopath.
She worked, raised her own 5 children and retired.. no way should he have been living there, a teen delinquent home would have been a safer way. That poor woman!
Many elders don't have the energy to care for unruly children, especially teenagers and/or troubled youths. We always hear about "grumpy" old people, so imagine of they were armed, sick and tired, and cannot get into phydical fights because of their health. This a formula for a disaster.
There is always a degree of disconnect between kids and parents, but 10X more with grandparents today. They basically grew up on different planets. He paid with his life, and she'll pay for it with the rest of hers.
I'm always curious how people who can't handle their unruly children either have those children removed to or willingly give those children to THEIR parents.
As someone whos done K2 not really knowing what it actually was, I can not believe anyone would willingly do this shit. It gave me severe paranoia/ anxiety for months and thats just one use. I can see how things got out of control, but the situation is just sad.
3:49 “I guess she figured that in a crisis, hydration is the key” This is so heartbreaking but that dang comment made me chuckle. RIP Jonathan. Rot Sandra!
This reminds me of the Byron Smith case, where he murdered a couple of teenagers in his basement because they'd been breaking in and stealing from him. Not exactly the same, but both cases where restraint could have allowed everyone to still be alive/not in prison. On one hand, in both cases, I really feel bad for the kids who died, and their families that loved them, even if they were involved in some really bad and dangerous stuff. On the other hand, FAFO. You do stupid stuff, you might pay the ultimate price. You can't walk around in life on eggshells, but if you continuously do the wrong things in life, and you disrespect people, and you make people feel threatened, stuff like that can catch up. There's violent people out there too.
Grandma was old school. She didn't get scared. She armed herself to not be scared by her own grandson inside her own home. Synthetic THC melts your brain.
This kid was completely out of control. This woman had no business letting him live with her. I feel bad for him but I feel worse for the grandmother. If you’ve never lived with an antisocial drug addict, don’t judge her too harshly. It’s an impossible situation.
In earlier eras of human culture, eliminating a troublesome child was considered to be saving the entire family from their behavior I don’t condone it but it’s come from numerous cultures, west, east, north and south
Why would YOU send your crazy drug fueled child to OLD FOLKS/grandma and pa.. if YOU (...the parent/s...) can't deal with him? He should been in a therapy group home or facility. She should've told her husband DEFINITELY!! They couldve kicked him out or got him more help! 👮♂️
The elderly grandmother should not have been put in that situation, she had children she should not have had the responsibility again when she should be enjoying life. I know its probably wrong but I have more sympathy with the granny.
